were there any circumstances that would have allowed the police to search

If the police had investigated properly at the time then i’m sure there would have been enough. There were enough witnesses that brought their alibi’s into question.

Jeez even bringing in Acourt for questioning when he ws seen with the bin bag would have given the police the oppurtunity. Potentially caught red handed

Hindsight is a wondeful thing.

Were looking back on early 90’s policing 20 years on. Even so ignoring 5 potential murderers after receiving 26 tips about them in 48 hours following the attack is ludicrous.

FFS it still took them another 2 days to bring them in for questioning after Nelson Mandela made a public appeal to the poilce to pull thier fingers out.

I think there were two miscarriges of justice

Just two? I think you need to look into this case more throughly then.

Basded on the reporting I’ve heard

Oh in that case I take it all back. The fragments of the media you may have heard must be fact.

Were I on that jury I’d have voted not guilty

On what basis? Do you have all the facts the jury does?

That just sounds like a prejudice view which would have never seen you on the jury in the 1st place.

The sentance given is minimum terms so no option of a reduced sentance.

Theres nothing to say they’ll get out at that point.
Besides 15 years is a long time when your hated.

Their defence did their best to rubbish it including trying to re-produce the contamination they suggested took place. Even the scientists for the defence couldn’t replicate it.

DNA evidence. Flimsy?

It’s in…

Dobson serve a minimum of 15 years and two months and Norris to 14 years and three months.

Can’t find it now – but a decent article in the guardian suggested that one of the accused father’s was something of a gangster – who may have had influence on officers / wittnesses etc – leading to the initial mishandling of the case

Detective Davidson (one of the key detectives in the initial investigation) has been accused of receiving bribes from Clifford Norris. He’s the Father of David Norris and was at the time himself on the run from poice.

I watched the panarama prgramme on BBC last night and things still amaze me even now. No first aid was ever given at all when the police arrived on the scene and nothing was done until paramedics turned up. Probably futile I know but still, it seems astonishing.

Why did they get off initially, no evidence, no dna??

Despite 26 accusations of the 5 accused the poilce didn’t arrest anyone for 2 weeks.
The police had them under surveilance instead and even photographed Jamie Acourt taking away a filled bin bag. We’ll never know what was in the binbag and the potential wealth of evidence the police watched and photographed being taken away. The murder weapon was never found and its scary to think that just arresting them straight away could have provided enough evidence to see all of those responsible brought to justice from day 1.

This single image always sums up the police incompetance to me.

mmm he needs to be more cunning. My boy was scaling things, getting on to windowsills etc around 14 months.

Carrying a stool around is just to much of a giveaway. Next he’ll be wearing a blindfold and carrying a swag bag for all his new found toys.

Teach him to be a bit more sly.

Sit on his roof and fling a tile at him when he comes out of the house.

Clean trousers and then straight on to the roofer.

simples

Please just ask your Son.

The best option is the best for HIM not what the best console is.

RE If all his mates have a xbox then they can share games, controllers, play together etc.

He’s normally got so much to say for himself in Interviews; just goes to show he wasn’t expecting it or had anything prepared.
Once again thanks and gives recognition to his team mates before anything else. Top bloke and well deserving, great to see cycling in people’s minds more.
Not sure why people have a bug up their ass about him.

I have been very tempted by this but as my OH is a scruffy bint it would just give her an excuse to make more of a mess and the place would only be clean for a shortime after they went.

The average on here seems to be a cleaner coming in every couple of weeks to do 2 hours.
Is it just me but seems bonkers. That averages out at 8.5 minutes a day.
Seriously. Are you guys that time contrained that you don’t have less than 10 mins a day to spare??
EDIT: And for the couples on here thats 8.5 mins shared…. thats 255 seconds a day!

2 – is Jennifer Connelly, not sure of flm though

7 – The shawshank Redemption

Edit: damn you camo

Over a few years you build up a fantastic resource for kid school work too if that matters to you.

Yeh had that at the back of my mind as well. Good call

£19, gotta be worth a punt

What you taking him to see Harry?

Didn’t get a leaflet through the door for a panto but it starred louis spence and I had a little bit of sick in my mouth before I managed to throw it away…

The full stops are: f1, f1.4, f2.0, f2.8, f4, f5.6, f8, f11, f16, f22

Cheers fella I never knew that.

Ok cheers guys so I was righ in principle just need to try ot remember the specifics.

decrease the aperture = increase the f stop

Yeh got that, I knew what I meant 🙂

Still very much in the experimenting stage of things but starting to get my head round it all now.

wysiwyg – Was shooting a water blur in pitch black so shooting bulb.

Took this last night. Was happy with the exposure at 2.8 but wanted to increase the app to get the full picture in focus. I think I was on the right path but took 4 different exposures of 150, 180, 210 and 240 just to make sure.
If I was sure in my mind it would have saved me a fair bit of time stood about in the dark and cold!

[/url]
54.1 ~ Fall Into The Goyt[/url] by Enotsnad[/url], on Flickr

br – why are mobiles different?
I actually just use my mobile anyway. Normally divert to my moby and always return calls on my mobile

I’m thinking this might be the easiest thing to do in the future.
I could get another mobile “Batphone” and just use it for incoming and outgoing workcalls and then get work to pay this direct.

Used to be as fast a whippet before he piled the weight on

Finally has recognition

The most valuable thing you can give your child is your time.

Maybe the OP does but also has the financial means to treat them as well.

Why is everyone so concerned about how much other people spend on the people they love?

Half these posts scream of jealousy or hypocrisy.

If someone can afford something and wants to do it then so what?

As for the OP it depends what chord your trying to strike. If its more of a toy / entertainment then Ipad.
If you want it to be more for work / education then a laptop.

Cheers zippy

Flaperon – Did you litterally just swap the disks out? Did you not have to format it or partion it in anyway?
Also what size disk did you put in?

I’d just take it on the chin and rack it up to experience.
In the future just don’t put yourself in the same situation by offering to lose your holidays in the first place.

If it makes you feel better and you can work from home then i’d do that for a couple of days so you feel that the balanced has been addressed and then move on and out it behind you.

Well highlighted.

All seems like common sense when you think about it but not what most people would expect.

Why did the baker have smelly hands?

Because he kneaded a poo!

whats brown and sticky? Please tell me you told him the junior version!

Very much not the same thing…

Its not a comparison i’m trying to highlight as well trying to make her feel special i’m also trying to avoid the confrontaions she struggles with so much.

My heads a big mashed up mess

I’m taking all this in. Cheers guys.

As far as making her feel special, I continuosly go out of my way to do things that will please her. Even to the point of walking on egg shells and trying to avoid situations.
Not particularly gift givers but thinking about it. In the last two weeks I have organised a night out, gave her flowers and encouraged her to do more things with her friends.
I can’t say this has been reciprocated though.

The thing i’m struggling to get my head round as the thread title “When is enough, enough?”
I do want this to work and have been trying for the last two years, the relate, the encouragement, the constant forgiveness has all come from my side.

Her default setting is to avoid problems so nothing is ever addressed. I eventually just think start with a clean slate but thats half the problem. All these isues just get compounded.
After telling her that My Dad’s Mum passed away last week she responded with “Oh”. No mention of it has been brought up again or any consideration shown.

As far as the falling out goes its always something rediculous.
Last night fallout was because I came home from work and found her sorting the climbing gear out.
I asked “When are you going climbing?”
I have previously encouraged her to get climbing again and get out with her friend whilst I look after the kids.
She took this question as me being annoyed or angry at her. That I didn’t want her to go. That I had plans of my own on that particular night (I still didn’t know which night).
This is not what I meant or felt. I was actually pleased she was going out. No amount of trying to convince her was going to cut it.
She decided what I meant and that was it. My intentions or thoughts on the matter were irrelevant.
So she though a big hissy fit, accussed me of all sorts and then got nasty name calling etc.
I’m just stood there confused like “what just happened”

This is typical example of a falling out that results in 3 days of silence and me having to forget it all and come back all poistive and encourage her to talk to me.

Grantway – thanks for the sound advice but my Father committed suicide and it pretty much screwed up all the family he left behind so I’ll give that option a miss if you don’t mind.

TJ – We did the relate thing for about 6 months. It did help but after about 4 months of it we realised we had got a lot of benefits from it and coping measures but it was also instilling some negative behaviours.
ie she would not make the effort to talk to me if she knew we were seeing the counsellor. This meant if something was on her mind she would not talk to me for 5 days and save it until we were in a session.
We both decided it was for the best to step away from the relate sessions.

I’m not laying all the blame at her feet. This has been going on a long time and i’m sure there are things we have both done that have not helped.

The difference is clear though in the way she reacts to a situation.
The cycle we have been in for the last 4 weeks is a farce.
For instance:
We have a falling out, she goes into herself and refuses to talk or address anything. I give her space and time and do not push the issue. After about 3 days of silence and her going away to decide what she wants she is then ready to talk.
We both agree that we want it to work. We both agree to not have the on going days of silence and brushing things under the rug.
We make up and promise each other that we will try.
Two days later we fall out again. She refuses to do the one thing we agreed to do. She then accuses me of pushing or pressurising her if I ask her not to ignore me for days again. So now i’m the bad guy.
I back off. She ignores me for a further 3 days or so then comes back and trys to talk. She tells me she wants it to work. She promises to try and talk and not ignore me for days on end……
You get the picture.
We have had this “Talk” four times in the last four weeks.

Whilst she is ignoring me, I am suppsed to just give her her space, not say anything, not complain and then be poitive when she wants to talk.

Is this a balanced effort? I feel like I am just on a really shite merry go round

Cheers guys your all pretty much confirming my currant state of mind.
At the point I decided we should probably break up, I decided I would only do that if I was sure we has really tried and knew there would be no regrets or concerns about what might have been.
That was well over a year ago.

Oddjob – I have actually sugested a therapist to her or an independant counsellor, anyone basically. Offered to pay whatever the cost may be if it gives her someone to speak to thats outside the currant enviroment. She doesn’t seem keen though and I don’t want to force the issue. I’ve told her I would support her but I can’t caryon being an emotional punchbag.

I think the situation is pretty much as Sue described her own. After months and months of trying many many different things I kind of think that theres too much water under the bridge and that she won’t be able to get her self sorted if she’s within this relationship.

The hardest thing is that it looks like I have to make this decision. I’m not sure if its a powerplay so she can say I left her or just if she’s not strong enough to make the desicion herself. Either way it feels like the only option I have left and its not the one I want.

I’m increasingly aware of how this must be affecting the kids and It kills me to think they’re suffering as well.

My Brother told of an incident a few weeks back were the Vacuum cleaner was being tempremental, so he grabbed the spare one which then blew the motor. Getting more annoyed he went and got an one from the attic, turned it on and it threw dust everywhere.
He dragged all three into the garden and took a sledgehammer the lot, proper mashed them up, racked them into a pile then calmy walked into the house and told his Wife they need a new vacuum cleaner 🙂

Couple of muffins with thick cut marmalade.

copious amounts of tea