Quick question?

Given that women apparently find this sort of thing so off, how come so many of them take cash for posing like it? (The great VP and some of the above quite obviously)

Look its simple, some men find some women attractive, some women find some men attractive (apparently), try to learn to live with these basic facts of life. You’ll find yourself less stressed generally I think.

What relevance does that have to whether using a taser was an appropriate way of dealing with this woman? Don’t think anyone is arguing that the woman was in the right, just that the response was unnecessary and ill-advised.

Simple, she has the right to behave like a complete idiot, but the responsibility for the consequences are really hers.

Are you happy if this was coming to a street near you G?

Yep, I’ve no real problem with doing as asked by a copper, as long as its polite and reasonable. I didn’t see anything there that wasn’t.

Basically, I’m sick to the back teeth of this “everyone knows their rights, but no one knows their responsibilities” culture. I am by no means a goody goody, and I’ve had a fair few brushes with the boys in blue, but I’ve never been treated unreasonably. Having said that, my brother sat on the Police Complaints Authority for 3 years, and I’m very aware of situations where the Police have indeed reacted badly. 99 times out of a hundred though, there is some history other than, “yes officer”.

As has been quoted at me often enough recently, if you can’t do the time don’t do the crime

So what was the friend of a freinds take then? Pro or anti helmets? If anti may I suggest he pop back to his former employer and straighten them up on demanding that helmets are worn at all BC sanctioned events.

Could I also ask how he managed to extrapolate that outcome from the information given? I think you will find that if the coroner thinks that multiple injuries resulted in the death they put that in their report, if they don’t then they are more specific, like Cause of Death = Head Injuries for example.

surfer – Member

What like the ones with a gun in their handbag, or a knife etc etc woh behave irrationally immediately before killing someone, one of those you mean???

Poor argument. This give free rein to do absolutely anything to anyone on the basis that someone once had a knife/gun in their bag.

Absolute arse. Of course it doesn’t give free rein, its just a case that in a society where the ownership of and carrying firearms are accepted everyday occurances, you have to expect the Police to react strongly in their own defence if someone does not obey their very reasonable and perfectly valid requests. The guys on his own with a woman who point blank refuses to do as she is asked, and is endgangering the cop and herself with her erratic behaviour, (Note the cop has actually put himself in a dangerous position with the oncoming traffic so as to keep her out of harms way), she is refusing to obey, and has several times pushed him away or struck out at him when he has tried to get her to calm down and move to safety. Whats he supposed to do? Roll around on the floor beside the road putting both at risk? Just becuase shes 72 and small does not mean that she isn’t armed, on drugs, potentially violent etc etc.

He asked her several times politely, then he warned her more than once, and eventually he zapped her. Entirely her own fault.

won’t be just “familiarising himself

Yeah, but there must have been a point when he was surely? Bet he didn’t come out of the womb with an inate ability?

The feds like everyone else do have to train and practice their skills, it is normal though for this to be authorised in advance with proper risk assessments etc in place. Sounds a lot to me like this guy was playing and got caught, otherwise it should have been easily sorted prior to any court proceedings.

Its also possible to die on the roads due to anothers negligence or incompetence without anyone giving a shit apparently, so whats your point caller??

Ah, the hotbed of sexual sophistication that is STW.

Is that the same as a “back scuttle” ? 🙄

The police come into contact with people in stressful situations daily, some with mental disabilities, what if she was one of them?

What like the ones with a gun in their handbag, or a knife etc etc woh behave irrationally immediately before killing someone, one of those you mean???

tanky tanky….. you’re talking about football, whats happening?? You’ll be asking about road riding next

Dare I add, “if you can’t do the time don’t do the crime” ……. 🙄

Yep I’ve had some dealings with CTC hierarchy. Ian Warby and his efforts for MTB apart, hand clasped to forehead and **** me! Sum it up fairly well.

Personally I would never quote them in support of an argument about anything at all!!! It weakens your case rather than strenghten it IMHO

Took a brief with him, gave it the full monty in court, and this is waht he got. An appeal is a) expensive, b) Very unlikely to succeed, and c) unlikely to come to court prior to the original sentnce being completed, so no real point frankly.

Regarding employing someone, he is a small one man self employed fella, scrapes a living, but thats about it. Simply put he can’t afford it. Currently driving a 10 year old motor sort of thing.

Apparently on the day in question they were handing out 6 month bans like confetti. court officials etc all displaying surprise at the severity.

I understood that he was….

There used to be a great Bell Helmets ad back in the day, which read if you’ve got a £5 head get a £5 helmet, so to update that to your circumstances, if you’ve got nothing to protect then don’t protect it.

Personally the concept of being swept over the bonnet of a car and spreading my grey matter over their windscreen automatically makes me want to defend what little I’ve got.

Look if you lot want to make up your own thread, thats fine, but not on mine please.

Now then, about my mate…….. 🙄

G – Member
Outrageous attack on his human rights. Part of the problem here is that he was fairly and reasoanbly elected. You absolutely cannot complain once he has been elected that he has been. Its called democracy.

Personally I’d throw egss, hammers and bricks at the **** who thought voting for the BNP was some sort of sensible thing to do for any reason whatsoever, and secondly at the other parties who have made such a complete lash up of our political system such as to produce an environment that such a thing could come about.

don’t blame Nick Griffin, you can’t stop him being a cretin any more than you can stop a dog licking its own arse

SO DO I GET AN APOLOGY FROM ANYONE THEN? 🙄

Don’t be fooled by the ‘Democracy’ argument; they’re nasty vicious racist thugs. Nothing more, nothing less.

And for this reason the rights and legal system of this country therefore don’t apply to them?

Do you know what?

I don’t give **** what they are on strike about. I am however going to the smoke for the day to visit my son, a chance that I don’t often get, and frankly I’m hardpressed to see what is so important that it justifies bringing the capital to a standstill, let alone inconveniencing me.

No sides, but frankly both parties need their heads banging together and being forcibly ejected into the real world that most of the rest of us have to survive in.

I actually don’t even agree with even that TJ, its the protests that give him the oxygen of publicity and is exactly why he/they provoke them. Best to leave him to it. The press would soon stop reporting nothing happening.

I find it hard to decide who I want to throw my eggs at most personally

I read this story in a **** lads mag called Forum a long time ago. I think it ends with the hubby coming home unexpectedly and the lodger getting it at both ends so to speak!

LOL

tankslapper – Member
G!!!! Another Christian!

Nah…. winding up Aussies doesn’t count its too easy

goog: TPOTTA…..

**** me!

Ok so when does this business of one law for one, and another for others start and finish?? Thats how the likes of the BNP and the Klu Klux clan operate FFS!!!!!

The only real defence is to be even handed and scrupulously so. Nick Griffin is no fool and he will have deleiberately put himself next to the Tamils to provoke an outcome which will show good honest white folk properly elected being shouted down and prevented from having free speech while brown people protesting illegally are allowed to carry on in the background.

I actually totally fail to understand how so many people on here can be such complete arses over these very obvious things…. see where reading the Daily Mail gets you, it eats your brain away from the inside out

I found this interesting – from the Beeb
The number of people voting BNP across the UK as a whole went up slightly, from 808,201 to 943,598 in the European elections, but went down slightly in the two regions where it gained MEPs, with the party benefitting from a collapse in the Labour vote.

So in what way does my original post digress from that very point??

I’m sure the people of Germany and Europe who msuffered because of Hitler and his cronies will whole heartedly agree with your opinion G – NOT!

What my opinion which runs along the lines of “for evil to succeed all that is required is for good men to do nothing”??

You consort to an egg layer!

TJ what the hell has happend to you? He has a human right not to be assaulted, and you know that.

Outrageous attack on his human rights. Part of the problem here is that he was fairly and reasoanbly elected. You absolutely cannot complain once he has been elected that he has been. Its called democracy.

Personally I’d throw egss, hammers and bricks at the **** who thought voting for the BNP was some sort of sensible thing to do for any reason whatsoever, and secondly at the other parties who have made such a complete lash up of our political system such as to produce an environment that such a thing could come about.

don’t blame Nick Griffin, you can’t stop him being a cretin any more than you can stop a dog licking its own arse

TJ : I understand the law well enough having studied it at both a level and degree level, thanks very much. It is common practice for simialr areas of law to be considered so much so that of occasion settlements in different legal systems, are taken as precedent. It is not uncommon for example for American case law to be taken into account in the UK.

So once more for the record, I am not saying that my mate was innocent and shouldn’t have been punished. Quite the opposite in fact, what I am saying however, is that for it to be seen as fair, just and equitable it has to be proportionate across the board. Clearly his sentence when ALL circunstances are taken into account is on the harsh side, clearly when very few of either the facts or circumstances were taken into account the Rhyl drivers setnence wasn’t harsh even then. My question is therefore how can that be right? And that I think is where I came in.

IT has nothing to do whatsoever with him getting done, me or him bleating, just simply a strong sense of injustice, which I fully accept would be equally resolved by mate putting up with what he got, and all the others getting much harsher sentences, as it would his sentence being reduced to make it proportionate.

Justice has to be seen to be fair, and I put it to you that the things I have raised above clearly are not only not seen to be, but simply are not just.

– the point you simply do not seem able to see is that because in one case the driver seems to have got away lightly this has no bearing on your mates case. None. Zero. Zip.

Yes it does, punishment especially for linked areas of crime. Clearly sentences must be proprotionate, in fact the whole of UK law is based on precedents, and it is the norm to consider prior case law before deciding how to sentence. I actually have been amazed throughout this thread how someone of your obvious intellect cannot see that it is absolutely crucial that there is a sense of proportion in punishment. In my mates case he got very close to the maximum that the type of offence will normally get. In the Rhyl case the guy got less than the normal minimum, which would be 3 points per tyre and £60 each (he got 6 points and £180 fine in total), the Magistrates could have awarded much more had they chosen to. The Police could have charged him with other offences had they chosen to. That is not proportionate. Thats my point

You mate got the punishment for the crime. Maybe the Rhyl driver didn’t. so what. Your mate still got the correct punishment for the crime as laid down in the law. The Rhyl case has no bearing on it whatsoever.

I never said the Rhyl case had any direct bearing on my mates case. What I said is that the sentencing is not proportionate. Perhaps I’m misunderstanding you, are you saying Rhyl was reasonable? Because if so my mates circumstances clearly aren’t given a much heavier sentencing regime being applied. Conversely if you think Rhyl was excessively lenient, then clearly its not therefore proportionate to what happened to my mate. Either way you cannot be correct in what you are saying. Troll or otherwise I honestly believe that.

G

shoefiti – Member
Do you drive TJ? i don’t suppose you have gone over the speed limit – Ever? have you ay? be honest!

Actually he has fessed up to speeding and dangerous driving not to mention deciding when the law should apply to him and when not further up this thread to be fair.

G wants to spuriously link various other things to his mates case to try to prove his mate got unfairly banned. Its like comparing apples to sheep.

Totally wrong TJ, I don’t know how many times I have to say it, what I am saying is that the sentencing does seem to be disproportinate in any number of cases. Those of special interest to me in no particular order

a) My mate
b) myself
c) Fellow cyclists offended against
d) Motorists generally
e) Chav type serial offenders

I mean for example, near to where I live the local chavvery set up on a nightly basis near to the towns sorting office, which is effectively a very large roundabout in a one way system. All night long they scream up and down, do doughnuts and generally piss people off. Thats every night of the week. This is no more than 500 yards from the towns central Police Station. You can park up and watch and you will see every driving offence in the book being committed continuously. Action taken? Nil: Having been pressed any number of times the Police response is this is so we know where they are, its not in a residential area and we can keep an eye on them. So hows my mates serial offending different from theirs then?

Nope, its pretty much the same sentence (minor variations, but in essence the same). So hows that proportionate? You’ve made a tactical error, and have transgressed over the arbitary and very vague line, but in so doing have not caused any harm of done anything ostensibly dangerous, (over and abvoe the intital offence obviously), and then you get nailed in exactly the same way as someone who has crashed their car, or breached traffic laws over and above what you have done. Thats not right is it?

Yep thats the one,

So what do you get if you’re over the limit and had a minor accident, or broken a traffic law ???

shoefiti – Member
nope zokes – that about sums it up! i think i’m off to Bike Magic to open an acount the self righteous index is lower there.

Think I might join you, feel a bit like the Hunch back of Notre Dame at the moment……

You know that bit when he swings up into the tower shouting “Sanctimony.. Sanctimony” 🙄

Utter arse being spoken on here about these issues IMHO. No one is saying that people should not be punished for their transgressions, nor that there should be no rules, just that there should be some sort of proportionality in sentencing. I haven’t got to the D & D bit yet, but when I do you’ll see what I mean…..

Oh **** it lets just go for it..

Whats the standard sort of sentence for being caught over the limit, but without breach of any other traffic law??

ac racer :

He got that one wrong then, obviously.

See there you go again…

What actually happened as was there was a hidden dip in the road, it had flooded to a depth of about 50cm. I drove along at may be 35 – 36mph and hit it at that speed,m car washed out quite literally and spun 360 degrees aqauaplaining as it went. Im my then inexpereince I’d made the classic mistake of assumption, and I assumed that the road was OK where I couldn’t see it. PC plod had just shown up and I’d now guess that he couldn’t have charged me with anything, although I’ll never know, but between being shook up and the bollocking I got I learnt more and took more notice than any 3 points and fine would have taught me. I was terrified by it!

I don’t support BNP but I repsect their right to exist and express an opinion. I support free speech!

Not a pop at spongebob, but it is a problem that everyone seems to know their rights but few seem to understand their responsibilities.

a lot of normal people feel disenfranchised by the mainstream parties.

So why did most of em vote for Camerons lot then?

Its my word and I’ll use it when and how I like!

I understand the split up, but it doesn’t seem to me that the costings stack up. Overall I don’t think the oil revenue works, it is the only thing that makes a difference between net profit and net loss, the revenue is falling, costs are rising and the fiscal demands are far from clear in an independant Scotland.

Besides, with the army thing, do you reckon we’ll be allowed to keep a momento, like the Ghurkas…. perhaps the Black Watch or something??