BigButSlimmerBloke, sad to say that whilst you are absolutely correct, you are wasting your valuable time. I suspect his mother was in the queue for gob when she should have been in the one for intellect. 😉

American Owners = Utter Cocks in my experience.

Been down that road twice now, and both times were personified by lies, deceit, incompetence and cover up. Reading your post I’m seeing a pattern developing.

Best of luck for the future.

G

Liberal society tells us that they deserve a ‘second chance’. The sad fact is these people werent first time offenders and this is their ‘second chance’. Any Policeman on here? I bet each murderer etc has a very long history going back to their youth but thanks to our liberal society we have to give them another chance.

Ah! I’ve got it. Execute at the first transgression and future crimes are prevented. Great work Hora, I always wondered why we didn’t take our policies from the movies. Always seems so simple up there on the silver screen. Now then wheres the speakers Darth Vader outfit…..

PS: Don’t you dare break the speed limit, otherwise its curtains for you m’lad

G – I would be more inclined to agree with you were it not for the fact that thses cases are relatively rare and it is debatable whether any amount of analysis could prevent re-occurrence.

Possibly right, but it would be a shame if we were at the tipping point of a trend and actually didn’t pick up on it, thus not acting and thus perpetuating it. I suspect if you look at things like the James Boulger case and one or two high profile others in the recent past you might well find that this sort of hard core crime carried out by minors is potentially more of an issue than you might think. .. . . I believe there is an ever growing list of stabbings for instance.

Also on the take them out and shoot them front, just take a look at the long list of miscarriages of justice going back to the Birmingham 6. Its very easy to pontificate, not so easy to carry out the sentence and even harder to go and apologise to the family when you find out that you’ve killed the wrong person judicially.

Just as a matter of interest, its also worth not shooting people like this so that we can learn from them and thereby perhaps avoid a repetition elsewhere.

shands – Member
I believe that the moral fabric of society is breaking down due to the excessively lenient sentencing that is occuring.

There you go a brilliantly uninformed statement at a time when we have more people locked up and for longer than at any time in the history of the nation!

Too many times the media have publicised cases of crimes going un-punished or by using some great social experiment to try to prevent them commiting any more crime.

And again! The recidivism rate for conventional jail is in the high 80 to low 90 percent area, whilst the “Great social experiment” rate is the opposite.

It hasn’t worked. Here’s an idea how about the victim or victims family help decide the punishment. That would appease all you looney lefty types that think the criminal have been done wrong by. For us who think that they should be suitably punished for trespassing against us will get our justice.

What? The justice of putting the offender into a system that almost guarantees that they will reoffend?

Or will that lead to more looney lefties getting killed because the criminal fraternity will learn whos best to attack and whos not!

Loony? As I said, the definition of insanity amply demonstrated by Monsieur Shands. I thank you sir, I believe my case now stands as proven.

As ususal with these threads, what the likes of the hang em and flog em brigade spectacularly fail to realise is that the current regime is not working, neither did capital or for that matter corporal punishment.

Simply put, a reasonable definition of insanity is to do something that doesn’t work, then repeat it incessantly expecting a different outcome. So how about we collectively MTFU in this area, and let the folks who actually handle this sh1t, have a proper run at dealing with the thing, with appropriate funding and resources, other than spouting utter bollocks all the time?

Oops sorry thought this was about me…

See ? I do know stuff.

My Mrs did a strip-o-gram at work, i.e. kitted up and came to the office and did it herself. Fair made me choke on my coffee, but I loved it. Made all my office mates really envious along the lines of “wow, wish my Mrs would do that”

…. No Tankslapper before you ask, just down to the undies

Waspy, stockings, that sort of thing … he’ll love it one way or another.

Trust me I’m a bloke and I know stuff 😉

I thank you ….

So now we’ve cleared that up whats next?

Recidivism is not of itself a reason to decriminalise something. It is however a reasonable indicator that the current approach isn’t working. So how about poking their eyes out with a sharp stick? Brail graffiti isn’t anywhere near as offensive to the eye…. 😉

Ray of Sunshine? Moi? Not bloody likely, I am indeed that personifaction of a grumpy oold man that kimbers is wattling on about. One of those who would most willingly grass up ANY graffiti “artist” and do a wee jig when they go down.

Like I said I have no problem whatsoever with them performing their “art” wherever it enhances other peoples lives/space/property. There is no argument whatsoever available in support of a contrary position, apart from “its not effecting me and I like the pretty colours/patterns so the fact its costing you (and indirectly everyone else) thousands is irrelevant next to my own selfishness”

You’ll be lucky, its all blanked out where it counts. I want to know if mine is claiming his Child Support Agency payments…… Tim Yeo man of the people, extra marital shagger and illicit parent.

Graffiti No, Art Yes,

Graffiti = an attack on other peoples property/lives/space

Art = something which enhances other peoples property/lives/space.

The person whose property it is defines whether it is art or not.

Simples

Avoiding the point again Hora or just trolling?

I prefer to believe that flawed as it is, its still better than the alternatives.

Naive? Maybe.. Hopeful? Definately..

Tell me that when you’ve just had your property receive the benefit of someone elses vision of art, then had to pay £1000’s to sort it out.

Happy for them to paint on their own stuff, and apply for planning permission like everyone else to display it. In the meantime while it is a crime, I would \agree that we should save the tax payers as you rightly suggest, and simply put them to work until such time as they have paid off the costs of their actions, that to include removal, court costs, cost of policing, etc etc.

simples

scraprider – Member
i like maggie , she was good to H.M FORCES in the early 80,s.wots done is done, being spiteful and rude on an internet forum is a bit sad really, all these pages of ,nastyness, what has it achived, **** all .certanly put the overpowerd unions in its place.

Oh really…. another bending of the truth there. CHECK YOUR FACTS. John Nott was busily cutting back the armed forces when the Falklands war kicked off. That continued afterwards.

If someone can relocate thousands of miles to a country with a different language and culture to find a better life why cant a Welshman move 200miles?

Apart from the simple fact that they have done as suggested in droves, I think the difference Hora, is that the examples you quote had little in the way of alternatives. In the example of our various denuded industries it was a deliberate policy to bring these people to their knees. For example with the coal and steel industries, we continue to this day to use and import those commodities. Thatcher simply killed the industries for political reasons, there was no actual need to do so other than that. Scandalous IMHO.

Am I reading this right? Are STW members actually seeking to justify racist attacks on families, which incidentally extend beyond Romainian, (it just so happens that this latest one is on a particularly large group and is therefore being reported more widely).

Tell me it is not so……

Yeah thats totally fair BD, but would you rent her your hall??

Our man, let me just flag up a warning for you.

I fell into the trap a year or so back. Suffice to say it was a costly and stressful experience.

To avoid the traps and pitfalls, firstly research your subject and know what you are asking for. Bascially in principle it should be to clear existing, excate down, so that new surface comes to the same level as old. Depending on weight loading infill with 6 – 18″ of MOT Type 1 Crushed Stone, Wacker level, Top with Sand and wacker level, paying attention to levels and drainage, ensuring that the entire area drains readily, and that any areas adjacent to the property are draining away from it, and that the level of the finished surface is sufficently below the DPC to comply with building regs. Stones or Flags laid should be laid in a bonding pattern to avoid movement …. and so on and so forth.

You should check thoroughly at each stage that your specification has been complied with and that you do not pay in advance for any work.

You cannot and will not get value for money if you don’t know what you are asking for. Make sure your spec and the quote are in writing incidentally, and ask to see the fellas insurance cover. (Thats so you can make a claim if he demolishes your property acciedentally!!)

My mistake was in exasperation getting the cousin of a woman my Mrs worked with to do it. Nice Lad, hard worker, and been working for a marshalls approved contractor doing this for years….. apparently. Nect thing that happens is he rolls up and “excavates” a limited amount of material, then decides he is going to lay blocks on top of my existing path etc. I rejected his plan, then the next thing I know is I get home from work and my back garden is covered with a thin layer of concrete which he is proposing to lay block paving on top of. When I say thin I mean I could push my little finger through it when it was dry!

Luckily a very good riding mate who happens to be a freelance site manager and all round top fella arrived like the cavalry, destroyed the fella, (who by then I had realised was as thick as a set of spanners laid end to end), and sorted out someone else to do remedial work and then do a proper job, which now looks the nuts and has been done properly.

Might seem like a faff, but beleive me compared to the horror that awaits from cutting corners its a breeze!

Trimix – Member
……….the one hand society

Tell me more, I’m interested to know more of this, I am fully equipped and ambidextrous, but given that due to a minor [ahem] “kit impairment” one hand is in fact plenty. Also is it my hand or that of another, (possibly slender) individual?? Which day of the week is the special day, as Sunday and Wednesday are out of the equation, being as they are, riding days.

Further info welcome 8)

All this proves to me is that religious fundamentalists of all flavours are just that : Mentalists!

IMHO, we should repatriate all animals kept in zoos and research institutes and substitute them with this type of zealot, then we can experiment to find the cause of this lunacy and deepen the shallow end of the gene pool by eradicating them. In the meantime we can enjoy ourselves by imitating them boorishly and throwing peanuts at them.

Sorted.

I’ve got a very good mate who was for many many years

Can I be the first to ask the really obvious question?

So how do you get to knowingly stay mates with a racist **** for years then ernie?

As it happens Jackson my brother wrote the original PCA report into the killing of Stephen Lawrence. That report actually was fairly unequivocal in its criticism of the Met, not for racism, but for incompetence. His view of it having been the invesitgating official was that they would have cocked it up regardless of the races involved. Accordingly not racist. The Macpherson report splits opinion very widely amongst those who do know the Lawrence case intricately. The killing was racist, the Met may well be, but that investigation was simply incompetent.

I also happen to know as a result that there are plenty of bad apples in the barrel, and also that it is increasingly difficult for them to get away with it nowadays, as the video clip at the top of this thread clearly demonstrates. That is not being unquestioning of authtority, its just applying the same rules to them that you and I would expect. innocent until proven otherwise. There is no evidence of wrongdoing per se in the video.

After this sort of stuff, why should I have any reason to have anything but suspicion and mistrust of the police. My first thoughts on reading that report were that I doubt if any charges are ever brought against the guy for assaulting a PO.

Read what I posted TM. I think you will find that things have moved on somewhat from where you are. (Incidentally are you still angry at the French for that unsavoury 1066 business, gvien the level of grudge holding you operate at?)
Frankly it sickens me the way people keep hopping up on their high horses, right up until the moment when they need help. Then when 5 coppers are trying to restrain a drunk guy and another is off work due to said drunk guy’s violence they start moaning about the Police never doing anything, wheres my taxes going etc etc. Get a grip.

If these cops have done wrong they’ll get well dealt with, if they haven’t they still might, in the meantime next time you’re being attacked by a drunk just hope the old bill aren’t being tactically slow getting there because they are so arsed off with drunks and the criticism they continuously get from the public when they deal with them. Personally, I’ve never seen a sober guy minding his own business be hastled by the Police let alone beaten up. (That includes the fella at G20 who was a raging alcoholic icidentally). Just work on the basis that if its kicking off being elsewhere generally is a good plan.

I suppose you’re going to claim that a police man hitting a young child is acceptable now, a clip round the ear never hurt me, yada yada yada

Nope the point that I’m making is that its very unlikely to happen nowadays, and its not reasonable to make comparisions with what went on 20 years ago and now in this respect. A great deal has happened and the situation is very different. Exactly as you found my example fatuous, which it obviously intentionally was, so to be honest is yours in relation to this event. Surely you can see that?? You’ve compared a situation today with one 20 years ago, and I compared yours with an equally true one 20 odd years before that. Not unreasonable surely?

Not only that, if no complaint was made, its really pretty difficult to argue what the outcome might have been. As I recall it, and being closely involved with the Police force at the time, there would be a very high chance of a result, and pretty much nil of a further assault. Where are you talking about? Belfast??

No, peaceful protest on an anti NF march, randomly dragged out and assaulted then charged with assault. All charges dropped before it got to court. I know that he’d done nothing as I was marching beside him. Are you going to call me a liar because you can’t imagine that such a thing would happen ?

Anything else you’d like to say ? Try to make it worthwhile if you have.

Yep there sure is. So what you are saying is that in front of a large number of witnesses, and for no reason whatosever the Police pulled your brother out of a crowd, presumably some 20 odd years ago and assaulted him, arrested him and charged him with assault, then dropped the charges. Did he take it further? Given what I know about the Police Complaints Authority even then that would be a dead cert for several officers jobs at the very least and probably prison sentences to boot. Now its a different world, and extremely unlikely as you are seeing in this thread that their actions would go unchallenged. Incidentally, I also was a victim of a Police assault. In 1963 the local bobby caught me scrumping and gave me a thick ear, then took me home and my dad gave me a hiding too. I tried to have them both for assault, but no one took any notice.

Regarding the bloke not making a complaint it was widely reported by the media at the time the video was published. It was then confirmed when the Chief Constable announced that due to the need to maintain public confidence they were going to refer the case to the IPCC despite no complaint having been made. Again apart from that just guessing.

I’ve got the evidence of a man being tazered on video. There is no evidence shown of the same man assaulting a PO.

What apart from the copper in question being hospitalised? Presumably punched his own lights out so his mates could have some fun but still be covered in case it got videoed?

How do you know that then?

a) Because I know him extremely well
b) Because there has never been any charge made against them
c) The few complaints that have been made have all been independantly investigated, and found to be not reasoanble in the prevailing circumstances.

Apart from that just guessing

Much the same way that you haven’t monkey, so basically TJ’s supposition is just as valid as yours. More so really given that the bloke in question made no complaint, presumably not seeing it as appropriate even with the video, besides which the bill have voluntarily refered it to the IPCC so even more time and money can be wasted investigating another non event.

Oh yeah, and presumably your brother was minding his own business and doing nothing at all, sitting at home in his front room drinking tea when a van load of bill arrived out of nowhere for no reason and kicked the crap out of him right?

My best mate was a firearms officer.

In the course of his service he was called to “live” events about once a week, to false alarms almost daily. (Think about the strain that puts on you as an individual and your relationships) He was severely beaten up and hospitalised on at least three occasions as a copper. Eventually when he did actually shoot someone dead in the line of duty the trauma of it was so great that of the officers in the team at the time, none are any longer in the force, all bar one has subsequently suffered from severe alcoholism, and all of them are now divorced. He and his family also received death threats from the dead offenders family.

Never on any occasion has he or his team gone overboard or over reacted to a situation. He has had to defend himself routinely from allegations as such as the above. None of those who have offended against him were ever charged wit hany offence.

Bottom line : These people are extraordinarily disciplined and well trained, they are painfully aware of cameras, mobile phones and the like and the potantial outcome for them if they over react. Drunks on the other hand behave like ****, are often violent and yet somehow always seem to be the entirely innocent party of assaults by Police. Strange…

However, boringly, “if you can’t do the time don’t do the crime” is my new watchword….. learnt that on here 😀

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ 🙄

LOL @ SaboteurCherie…. way to go!!

Waste of keyboard time TJ, I’d take his last post as a ner ner ne ner ner play ground style acceptance that the original discussion is over. Personally, I can’t be arsed to continue with it.

One thing I will admit. Labour 1997+

[Yawn] what? yeah right of course, obviously? Can I go back to sleep now???

garlic : Don’t worry about it its a red herring, South Thule is a strategically unimportant nothing in the ocean. The facts are that the UN told the UK and Argentina to sort the Falklands out between themselves in 1964/5, this process had been ongoing from that time. When the Argentinians occpied it initially the UK was unaware of that fact, because of its insignificance, isolation and lack of communication. Eventually when they became aware Callaghan protested strongly, but seeking to avoid conflict and the obvious public outcry that would follow any such perceived slight he carried on with diplomatic efforts to resolve the matter and didn’t make it public. He also maintained the UK’s military presence in the region. In 1982, some 6 years later, immediately after withdrawing the “gunship” Argentina invaded having tested the water with South Georgia first.

If anything South Thule proves that the war was clearly unneccesary, and not the reverse.

Like I have said all along, I’m neither an apologist for one side or t’other. However, my parents lived in an old bus in a field with 3 kids before I was born. Getting given a council house was a huge leg up to them, and my father moved heaven and earth to move on from there to his own property.

I see nothing wrong with a society that helps those that need help for reasons beyond their own control. I do beleive that that help should not be an automatic bottomless pit, and that it should be an earned privilige, rather than a right.

Selling those properties off upset me deeply for this reason, and that along with flogging off all of our public bodies and various other less obvious, but equally insidious policies to fund tax cuts for her cronies were not frankly worth the price paid by this country in the long run.

hora – Member
The selling off of public housing- Giving people the chance to own their own house rather than living off the tax payer for cheap?

1) Is that the same as saying being left with limited options other than to take on a mortgage that you can’t afford, thus culiminating in a credit/toxic debt crisis some years down the line?

2) Is that agreeing that one mans tax cut is anothers standard of living being shagged, or essentail service being cut?

The Winter of discontent was strangely the winter just before Maggie won power?

and do you know what? strangely it was caused by something very similar to the current economic crisis, which incidentally has little or nothing to do with the incumbent government either, beyond their attempts to sort it out with minimal impact on the population, see here the real reason for recession? Contrast that with Thatchers blitzkreig methods, which before anyone shouts were not particualrly successful.

So if we are agreeing then thats a nice change for once Hora, but if not as I frankly expect, then you are looking at Thatchers government through rose tinted spectacles.

[/quote]Most here seem to have forgotten just how bad the UK was in the 1970’s, she started the changes that have given us all considerable prosperity today.

I’m actually missing this whole prosperity thing…… do you mean debt/living beyond our means, in which case you have my whole hearted agreement.