In response to the comment about BC, I know of at least one multi million £ case against an organiser still being fought on their behalf by BC and their insurers. I also think its as well to remember all the others that have been taken out over the years where BC have carried the can. Easy to moan, and I’d be the first to say they are not perfect, but not so easy to do.

…… and its commissaires…. commissars are some weird Russian political bloke. NB: Comms are unpaid volunteers who only charge travelling and accommodation costs. If thats costing a lot its because there are no local volunteers.

Having been known to organise the occasional race event I can understand the OP view, albeit not agree with it.
Generally it’s easy to look in from the outside and conclude that the organiser is having it away. However when you actually look at it in detail it’s usually a long way from reality.
As an XC organiser my average per capita income is in the order of £17. If you look on my website you can find entry costs up to £37, but they are very much the exception.
When you factor in £3 head to BC, circa £3 a head to landowners, £2 a head for medics, £2 a head for toilets, £4 a head for the prize fund, and so on it doesn’t take long to realise it is largely done at cost.
The earlier comment re club structures is very valid. More significantly two other factors have a bearing, firstly austerity. Right now absolutely everyone is feeling their pips being squeezed as they try to find revenues previously not necessary. Secondly market forces. It’s supply and demand. If people don’t want to pay they don’t, if they do they will come. It’s basically that simple. Interestingly XC is on its arse….. Enduro not so much…. perhaps we should put our prices up

The old class structure is gone

Really? Check out how William the Conquerer divvied up the spoils after he fought to be alpha male in this country and then check out who owns what now. You’ll get a surprise.

The point is that this country is blighted by a class system that is solely in place to keep the vested interests who are already at the top of the pile in place. If you think about where the royals originally came from that was the human version of survival of the fittest, i.e I’m smarter than you/have a bigger army/am more ruthless and thus became leader. So in fact the hereditary system that we now have overrides any possible genetic logic for a monarchy.

Without competition for the top places, it is a biological fact that sooner or later you will get a weakling in charge. So the smart move for us as a species is to make sure that whatever method we chose to find our leaders looks as far and wide as possible and genuinely seeks to find the best there is…… so what actually happens? Oh yeah we have a class system which virtually gurantees that about 90% plus of the population never even get a look in and guess who is at the pinnicle of the class system that guarantees their own security??

In the meantime you have a bunch of brainwashed turkeys, such as Molgrips who continue to insist in voting for Christmas with all sorts of ridiculous arguments that don’t stand a moments scrutiny, like the tourism one, for example.

Spavin : Which apparently is a growth on a horses fetlock but at my school was applied to thin kids as a term of abuse.

But my favourite when applied with vigour was then and still is: Snot Gobbling Pussball

You been on the piss after the game Tanky?

One final point for Ernie – its interesting that you are so offended by the prospect of Foot leading us down the road of a Marxist state – are you denying that Michael Foot regularly met with the KGB and was paid money by them for information and services rendered?

Not argumenative, but can you back that up? I’d be interested to see the supporting evidence to that claim. I know there has been some issues in that respect, but mostly from Oxbridge types like Anthony Blunt. I was not aware of anything which was illegal or underhand with Foot, who despite being rabidly attacked, was in fact universally respected as a man of strong conviction, high moral standards and hugely intelligent amongst his peers of all political persuasions. A man whose opportunity came at a time when style was the victor over substance regretably.

Come on people, this is rugby. We don’t argue the toss about refereeing. What goes around come around, and we treat good fortune as just that, a fickle mistress, who mgith be sleeping in someone elses bed next time.

Overall, the reality is that we (the English) are exerting our superiority on the tournament this time, next time may be different, but its a sport played in a sporting way, and it is not about bragging, it is about enjoying the highs and the lows equally.

Not really interested in joining in, but having just read through the whole thread that has developed since I posted last night, I have noticed two main things :-

1) The point I was making which is the similarities between the start of the Falklands war, ie having to recommission and buy back scrapped and sold kit is spookily like whats now going on with the Nimrods, and that seems to have passed everyone by.
2) How rude, ill informed and belligerant the Thatcherites seem to be. simply abusing or belittling isn’t really an argument guys. It is entirely possible that it is what Public School teaches you, but its not an argument.

Night night

Anyone notice the chinless wonder sucking up in the middle east while apologising to our nationals in Libya that frankly we no longer have the ability to get them home. Mind you we’ve mind fecked Gadaffi by mobilising a SAS patrol in readiness. Must be double shitting himself about 4 double hard bastards without a plane to get them there!

The basic deal is that when the tories are in they cut public services for all they are worth, they always do and they are doing it again now. Simple examples that bear comparision with now would be the vicious armed forces cuts in the first years of Thatchers government that left the country without credible air and sea cover….(ringing any bells?). Anyone with a brain will remember the huge issue prior to the 97 election, that being hospital waiting lists. Anyone hearing much on that front now? No, well get ready because you will be soon. So what happens?

Well having had the snot cut out of public services throughout a Tory governmment, the following Labour one will try to rectify the situation. Much as they have with the NHS over the term of the last Labour government.

The big problem is that neither approach is without its shortcomings, the Tory one being that they tend to give money away to their mates instead of doing anything more sensible with it, and the labour one being that they tend to over regulate. The big hope at the last election was that between a hung parliament and the MP’s expenses scandal we might at long last see a lasting change in the Whitehall farce. However the optimists amoongst us didn’t bank on the complete lack of spine currently being exhibited by Clegg and his accolytes. So it opportunity missed, and yet another complete cluster fudge for the man in the street.

For the record, the misdemeanours of the banks is the reason for the cash crisis. That is directly traceable back to the behaviour of Thatchers government in deregulating the banking system. It is not disputable. Prior to that to obtain a bank loan you had to have an interview with the bank manager to prove that you had good reason to borrow and the wherewithal to pay it back, for example to borrow money to buy a car they would be looking for you to have a 1/3rd deposit AND prove that you need it and could pay for it. To get a mortgage you would be very lucky to borrow more than twice the main wage earners basic salary. Credit cards were unheard of. Don’t kid yourself about it, once Pandoras box was open Brown and Blair could not realistically have done anything about it without creating an earlier crisis. Thatcher and Lawson created the house of cards, both them and their mates have been feeding from the trough ever since, and it seems like they will continue to do so ever since this weeks abject failure to deal with properly with the banks occurred.

If you don’t believe me check it out, then get your Tory boy heads together and justify the FC sell off. Its politcal dogma, based on self interest, no more, no less.

Only in England. The Scottish situation is different

I think you will find that running at a loss has the same ultimate outcome whereever it happens, especially when Sugar Daddy is out of candy.

The 7 Stanes are not independantly profitable sites. There has been considerable concern on here about the current governments plans for the forest estate.

Think this through people, you are not going to get cheap subsidised riding, top class facilities and the cafe of your choice any longer without some financial input coming in from somewhere. Personally, if the Cafe at CYB or GT is the cost of keeping the venue in the FC’s hands rather than seeing the whole site sold off to some investor, then whilst I sympathise with the current lease holders, I can actually live it. Regretably on its own I very much doubt if the change regarding the cafe will be enough on its own to defer the inevitable though.

Just seen this thread and would like to add a couple of points.

1) Knowing a little of what you guys have been going through I'm really sad to hear of the ongoing crapfest John. Nobody deserves to be treated that way. For all I can see of it the FC have managed to take Thetford from an MTB rich environment to a virtually MTB free zone in just over 4 years. Outstanding for an organisation which professes to welcome the sport IMHO.

2) Regarding the point about Tunstall made by JD-boy above, the situation there is no different, except in that we have a whole raft of other things that we get up to in the woods, besides trail building, therefore the frustration and angst is not at the same level. Not sure where its at at the moment, but I suspect that sometime soon they will be putting in their 4th application for OPS 1 permission on a loop since 2007. All of which to date whilst demanded by the FC have just been ignored entirely.

The simple fact is that the FC hierarchy live in a rarifyed atmosphere which does not seem to have any contact with reality. They haemorrhage money like its going out of fashion and seem to have the market for jobsworths entirely sewn up.

In the short time I've had dealings with trail groups, I've found an enormous pool of committed, articulate, skilled and genuine people who have been willing to go way beyond any reasonable requirements to make improvements in facilities for their sport, often at their own personal expense. Only then to be abused and misused by the FC, presumably because they show the majority of FC personnel up for the sad incompetent idiots that they are. (PLEASE NOTE THERE ARE ADMITTEDLY NOTABLE EXCEPTIONS, BUT SADLY THEY ARE WAY TOO FEW AND FAR BETWEEN!)

There is nothing in this thread that dissuades me from that opinion, so how about some collective pressure being brought to bear???

Often heard that top 3 stressful thing, and have to say I can't see how that can be right. Heres an number of stressful things (divorce and bereavement apart), that top that by some way IMHO.

1) Being raped by the Fun Boy 3
2) Going on holiday in Benidorm
3) Having the mother in law around
4) Being set on fire
5) The Mrs catching me at it with the bird from the pub (again!)
6) The Mrs getting the bird at the pubs job

There may even be others, but I'm sure seeling my house is waaaaaaay down the list.

Personally I thought she was brilliant both as a singer and as a person. Hope she does well and doesn't get chewed up and spat out by the Cowell money making machine.

Perhaps it's time for a Singletrack political party?!

I'm in…… where do I send my expenses claim??

Anyone remember the Sharon Osborne/Louis Walsh/Glass of Water interface? The one where Louis Walsh threatened to walk out of a show he partially owns? The show that was experiencing a ratings drop against Strictly at that precise time? **** laughable really. Last nights shennanigans were just more of the same. Cowell didn't get to be as wealthy as he is without knowing how to hype crap. He is a master at it and good luck to him. The eye candy is there to be eye candy and basically does what its told.

Nothing wrong with the show, its entertainment, just don't confuse it with real life, which it isn't.

Thats rather Gayist if you don't mind me saying so Zaskar

Nor for that matter speaking up against the extradition of a convicted paedophile on hte run.

I consider it to be my moral duty to be fattist, in the same way that I'm smokerist. Its a caring thing. I don't want anyone I care about snuffing it due to fags or fat.

Hey Fat C**T = I care about you deeply sweetie…….. obvious really 8O

One of the best things about riding with folk is the piss ripping that occurs. Pretty much everyone I know reckons that the banter is the highlight of any ride, and likewise most forums.

Fact is it is a big belly, and it is a nasty injury. No one was actually intending any offence, as is reflected by the apologies, and to be honest the reaction says more about you, Derek than it does about the p-rippers. I very much doubt that anyone on here is anything other than supportive of your efforts to get fit, sympathetic regarding your injury, and grateful for the warning.

You can choose to be offended, or choose to believe that having the micky taken is the equivalent of an arm round the shoulder and a bit of support from people who don't do huggy kissy.

You'll find your life is much more pleasant if you choose the latter.

You are welcome any time on a ride with me, but lighten up fella. (You can choose how to interprete that too!).

The reailty in the UK is that we have neither, and the vast majority don't want either extreme. The fact is that there are good points on both sides of the equation as there are also bad. What we really need is consensus politics, which unfortunately is exactly what we won't get under the current electoral system, which is both unrepresentative and hands power to the establishment.

Personally I can't beleive that we are looking like electing the Etonian old Boys YaaHoo Society to be our represenatives. I can hardly think of any other human beings on the planet less representative of the average person in this country!!

Run it past me someone. Given the facts what possible reason would there be for not consenting to your daughter having the jabs?

I beleive the way it works is that you elect people to represent you, and then they implement the policies you elected them to fulfil. At the and of their term you vote for someone else if you are unhappy. So far I don't think anyone has voted for getting out of Europe in any sense, and throughout much of the time we've been in we've had the power of veto.

So any chance we can decide that we're either all in or all out any time soon?

Whose cronies?

The Tories….. you know Cameron, Osborne, Blair etc etc

Do you know this thread actually gives me hope for the future of this country?

Have you seen this today? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8289798.stm

Apparently the wussack is planning to take £230 from every individual on incapacity benefit to pay for his plan to get the country back to work. (His numbers £600,000,000 to pay for the plan, divided by 2.6 million folk on the benefit = £230).

This leads me to one of a number of conclusions: –

a) He is a liar
b) He is incompetent
c) There is a reason why they have avoided publishing any detailed plans

My eldest brother is on the benefit after a massive nervous breakdown that necessitated 18 months as an inpatient in a secure unit. It took my other brother and I 6 – 9 months to get it sorted out and all of that time we were underpinning his finances personally.

So on the other hand we have the likes of Fred Goodwin behaving in a totally cavalier and dare I say corrupt manner and costing the taxpayer some £32 billion! Surely a more pertinent pronouncement would be along the lines of what they plan to do about their thieving cronies in those areas who got us into the mess in the first instance, rather than doing the usual of picking on those in society least able to defend themselves.

probably 95% of the worlds population are better off now than their ancestors were 5000 years ago so it's hardly a truumph for socialism.

Thats not what I said.

Given the fact that the average Chinese is vastly better off economically, socially and politically now than at any point in the last 5000 years, I find a good deal of the posts on here ill informed and extremely blinkered.

They may well have some way to go before they achive the level of arrogance that we have when viewing other peoples societies, but I can assure you they will get there eventually, and look down on us and our way of life. There are no realisitic comparisions between China today and China during the cultural revolution, even less with Soviet Russia.

Getting back to Horas OP, so is that more so than the antics of our own government and that of America?

Moving onto this:-

Trimix – Member
They occupy some of their neibours – Tibet for example. They want Tiawan back.

And they have occupied Tibet for pretty much all of the last 900 years with the exception of a few years at the start of this century when they were whooping arse internally. So anyway, are you honestly suggesting that Tibet be returned to a feudal system under the Dali Lama ?
Most countries moved past that a century or so ago.
Regarding Taiwan, they actually want the contents of the Chinese treasury that was stolen by the Kuomintang in theor retreat from the mainland.

hmmm, I'm Welsh…

That explains everything ……. 8O

Daily Mail readers. There should be Kapo's standing station outside newsagents. As soon as one of the left-leaning, educationalista's comes out clutching their sweaty, dirty little newspaper in their mit, one of the Kapos' will insert his truncheon DOWN THEIR SMUG LITTLE MOUTH

I'm off to have a go on my turbot trainer…

we have an ageing population and not enough young people to support them in the future when everyone wants to retire

With respect I don't think you've thought that through properly :-

Less kids now = less old people in the future = less liability on the future kids = less need for more kids

I can see your point being an issue in the medium term, thus my new piece of legislation above :-

3) Parents wishing to sprog more than one child to choose another family member for euthansia to allow for the additional new bodkin to be accomodated on the planet.

Excess old people and input of new people dealt with in one go.!

No banning stuff… theres enough of that already.

Instead some options to be introduced :-

1) Risk assessments are to be an optional feature of H & S practice.
2) There is to be a choice of studying for the parenthood qualification or if they prefer to remain childless.
3) Parents wishing to sprog more than one child to choose another family member for euthansia to allow for the additional new bodkin to be accomodated on the planet.
4) Gas guzzling cars : The choice is to have one of these or a partner, can't have both.
5) Parents wishing to drive their kids to school have the choice of doing that and walking to work themselves from the school, or getting their kids to walk/ride to school and they can drive to work. Cannot do both.
6) Everyone has the choice of taking a risk or choosing not to. Nobody will be held responsible for the consequences other than the person making the choice.

More to follow

I hate to admit this, but at college in the early 70's 5p for a half of mild at the local and 10 Players No. 6 for 10p out of the vending machine.

**** me I'm old ! :cry:

Is that the flue from the fire in the kitchen or the one from the fire in the sitting room ?? :roll:

I think the point that always gets overlooked in these threads is the reason the EU was originally set up. It was to rectify the inequities that caused World War 2 and to stop us Europeans from fighting each other. In this it has been singularly successful.

Some time people will wake up to the fact that wars are caused by inequality. The sooner we get our heads around that concept the better the world will be. The truest words spoken in respect of 9/11 were by Cherie Blair, when she said the only way we will resolve this is by understanding and addressing what it is that makes young intelligent men so desperate that they see an action like this as the only way open to them. Obviously she got panned by the Tory press for that bit of subversion!

Some sad **** on here aren't there ?

Unbelievable! Whatever happened to MTB!

**** me….

So we're all giving them credence now? The best bet is ignore them. In every 60 million people there are padeophiles, murderers, rapists and racists. Most get no air time unless they work out how to manipulate the media. Best thing is not to help them IMHO. Usually they are too thick to work it out for themselves!