Could 2016 get any worse?

I literally cannot believe it.

I have no issue with asylum seekers if they are vetted in advance of entry. This is exactly the UK’s stance. Smart.

The UK’s approach to refugees and asylum seekers is far more about deliberate delay tactics, mindless bureaucracy and deterrent than it is about security.

I have helped a couple of guys whose asylum applications are a cycle of written deportation threats, appointments with home office staff who constantly delay decisions, being moved around, a lot, and a life with no security, no certainty, no money, no job and no worth at the mercy of a bureaucratic system which shows them nothing but contempt. One of the guys now has pretty serious mental health problems (a mixture of past trauma and current anxieties), he’d be pretty easy pickings for anyone looking to “radicalise” him.
Now, if his life was one lived in security, with a certainty about his future and the ability to work and set up a home, maybe he would not be so vulnerable.

Treat enough people like shit for long enough and some of them will resent you for it. Some of them might even end up doing something really nasty.
Show them respect, treat them with dignity, welcome them as you would hope to be welcomed and yes, you’ll still get the odd whack job, but you’ll have a whole lot more people on your side.

It’s a well known fact that some asylum seekers are terrorists

Yes, but how many out of the 10s of millions of refugees and asylum seekers around the world?

10?
20?
maybe a couple of hundred?

I’ll wager there’s a higher proportion of Belgians that are terrorists.

I’ve got some. The brakes are fine, no leaking, reliable, really good pads. The levers are a bag of arse.

Will get deores or bb7s next time.

Asylum seekers aren’t a security threat, terrorists are.

Ps. I see that the new suspect in the German attack was registered as an asylum seeker. Oops.

If you’re that desperate to win an argument that you’ll sink so low, then **** it, you’ve won.

How does it feel to have changed the world?

Oh, sorry, no one gives a shit about your smug opinions and nothing will change regardless of how many forum threads you pollute with your nonsense.

So yeah, enjoy your victory.

Hope it is everything you dreamed of.

Yeah, like middle class university educated second generation londoners. Must be tough.

Where did I say that poverty or lack of education were causes of extremism?

You people make me sick.

More French and Belgian citizens are responsible for European terrorism than any other group, you don’t see anyone suggesting we ban them.

Anyone suggesting we don’t help those millions in need on the strength of a couple of whack jobs needs to have a serious word with themselves.

An extremist mindset is one born from extreme situations of dissatisfaction and alienation. I’m sure ignoring the plight of so many and treating them with such contempt won’t add to that.

It is irrelevant what nationality whatever sicko that committed this act is. What is relevant is the circumstances and experiences which led them to make such extreme decisions.

Unfortunately for some of your tiny little minds it won’t be anything like as simple as being a migrant or a Muslim.

The world is a complex place, full of horrors, I think it’s probably best we try to face it with humility, generosity and kindness, as being a **** seems to have made it worse, not better.

Once again, people have died in a horrible act and the point scoring starts in earnest.

There was always a part of me that regretted buying the ICT as a complete bike (even though it was pretty heavily discounted). Just looking at that picture of the crank spacers makes me glad I did. I am not smart enough.

Ulysse, stop humanising people. Easy narratives fall apart when you start doing stuff like that.

how many refugees has the oil rich same religion/culture/expansive area, saudi arabia taken in ?

Depending on who you believe, anything between 0 and 2.5 million. I’d hazard a guess at somewhere between 500,000 and 1 million, but it’s very difficult to be sure, given the way that the UN counts refugees and Saudi Arabia’s not being party to a lot of UN conventions.

Biased as I am, get the ICT, it’s heavy, but it rides like a dream.

Apologies for being a ****t. Sorry guys

Is this a first on STW?

**** hell some of you are ****.

**** children.

**** children!?

The only way to deter refugees fleeing war is to be worse than what they are running from. Some of you sound like you would like that.
They are people, no more likely to be a terrorist than anyone else.
Why would ISIS go to the trouble of sending terrorists all the way from Syria when they’ve recruited plenty of Europeans already living here?

Seriously, have a **** word with yourselves.

Also, Lebanon has recently closed its borders, with the estimated number of refugees way over 2 million, so probably not room there, never mind their involvement in the Syrian conflict.

Dezb beat me, will try again

IT’S A TRAP!

32/18 gearing, not particularly lightweight due to the plus size clown wheels, jones bars due to my old arthritic hands.

DO NOT WATCH NATIVITY 3.

I still have nightmares.

8O

But we are involved. The west (in league with Saudi Arabia) has been supplying and supporting some pretty shady groups in this conflict. There seems to have been a policy of indirect regime change by proxy. This policy might have worked but for the involvement of Russia in support of Assad.

We could never have acted in any way which may have been construed as supporting Assad, as he is in league with the “enemy” (Iran, Hezbollah) and it would have put Saudi Arabia’s nose well out of joint, hence the incredibly one-sided debate here in the west. Things are changing though.

The media have recently been given the nod to start questioning our relationship with Saudi Arabia (do you really think Boris is that stupid?) after the atrocities carried out in Yemen. What Syria has taught the west is that a major rethink is needed regarding our alliances in the area and they appear to slowly be pulling away from Saudi Arabia. Diplomatically, this will be a very slow, careful process which, I fear, will result in a great many more deaths. Part of that process might be helped by western governments and media portraying the true nature of the conflict in Syria. But of course, this would mean fessing up to some of the despicable things that have been done with western support.

If only the west could elect a leader unrestrained by such diplomatic doublethink, capable of wiping the slate clean…(I say this with a very, very keen sense of irony).

What upsets me the most is that we seem to have become incapable of seeing these conflicts on a human level, I know a lot of you don’t like him, but Adam Curtis sums it up better than I could.

Which is where my call to help came from. Rather than sitting around blaming one side or the other, or moaning that your government isn’t doing anything, do something. Or don’t, I can’t tell you what to do.

Commuting – fat bike*
road – fat bike*
trail centre – fat bike*
bimble down the canal – fat bike*
long day – fat bike*
trip to the shop – fat bike*

*other, more suitable bikes are available, but they’re not fat bikes.

BBC in different people are different shocker!

Yeah, who knew al Nusra were a bunch of wrong’uns?

I’m as surprised as anyone that our previously saint-like media have been telling porkies.

Dunno, with our current fetishisation of the 1950’s and it’s subsequent values I wouldn’t rule out an attempt to return the Suez Canal to its “rightful” custodian.

Soobalias, the container going out this week is full of children’s clothes and paracetamol. I’m pretty sure children’s coats aren’t going to exacerbate the conflict. :roll:

Do you know what, this is pathetic, why am I even trying to justify myself to you clowns.

**** love Sabbath.

:lol:

My wife just said she fancied watching a Christmas film. Without any input from me, she put Die Hard on.

That’s why I married her. 8)

The truth is, no-one knows the truth of what’s going on in Aleppo. The suggestion to bomb an airfield was not propaganda, it was an answer to the question of how the west gets leverage.

I don’t understand why some of you keep feeling the need to put up figures about how many rebels are Nusra Front or who funded this or whatever. No-one here has suggested the rebels are the good guys, but some of you constantly waving fingers about have clearly chosen your side.

The rebels are bad guys, the govt forces are bad guys, Daesh are bad guys. In the middle of all the bad guys are civilians, children, who are being used as human shields, executed for asking for freedom, punished for trying to leave, killed by mortars, barrel bombs full of chlorine, mines, hunger, disease and despair.

But yeah, I agree, the number of rebels linked to al-Queda is really relevant. :x

I suppose we’ll have to hear next about how many of the evacuated civilians are al-Queda in disguise. :roll:

I’m not so sure us getting involved would have made much of a difference to the casualty numbers. I think the advisor guy in New York made a good point that, if we want leverage, a show of force may be necessary, as it was with Serbia, but even he accepted that no-one is likely to step up and do it.

Do you know what, chewkw, I can’t be bothered.
Go score your points somewhere else.

Well that was a thoroughly depressing episode of Newsnight. A dozen people all in agreement that this is terrible and no-one has either the will or ability to do much about it. :cry:

First, it’s very debatable whether this is a liberation or not. Beyond that, a ceasefire and subsequent truce/peace deal would have been a far better way of ending the siege. The failure of all combatants in this conflict to realise that this war is unwinnable has been the cause of the greatest suffering. Killing people is never a good thing and can never be cast as such.
Secondly, Assad’s forces now have free reign over the citizens of Aleppo (those who are still alive). There’s already reports of hundreds of people disappearing and, if history is anything to go by, the citizens of a broken city are rarely well treated by tired soldiers, newly invigorated after a long siege.
There are no winners in this war, no heroes in their armies and little or no hope for the innocent lives at their mercy.

If by Russian intervention you mean bombing hospitals, schools, aid convoys then no, not right. Successful, but not right.