EL – that is indeed sad news but an unfortunate sign of the times.

It reminds me of a story a friend of mine told me last year. A rival company had closed down in the neighbouring village to him and several clients had come across to his printing business. One particularly stubborn gentleman couldn’t understand why my friend wouldn’t match the now bankrupt companies fees!

Kof9. Just a couple more comments now I’m back on a proper keyboard.

In relation to your concern re side effects. I would agree with the comments re propalin being a very safe drug. Whilst it is a sympathomimetic, it is quite specific and targetted in it’s actions and, unless grossly overdosed, I have never seen any effects on the cardio-vascular system. Drug companies have to list any adverse effects seen during trials, no matter how infrequent and no matter what the circumstances.
I also agree that perhaps your current vet should have taken some more time to discuss Missy’s individual needs with you and allay any concerns, especially if these are concerns you have mentioned in the past. Equally, the consultation has to be a 2 way exercise – I would hope that, if any dog I saw was showing signs of metabolic disease (many of which are obvious such as drinking excessively, vomiting, eating lots/nothing), the owner would mention that during the consultation.
My comments re online/foreign drugs still stand though -if an owner came to my practice having imported drugs from abroad, rightly or wrongly, that may well affect my willingness to go above and beyond to help them.

It sounds like you are doing the right thing by changing practices. I hope you get the answers you are looking for.

Kof9 – I wouldn’t say people are having a go at you. If you read the posts, there’s some very good advice re changing vets, changing medication or complaining to the relevant authorities if you feel you have been mistreated.
I am surprised though, that you seem very concerned re the potential side effects of a very safe drug and yet quite happily break UK and EU law re importation of drugs without authorization, and you are willing to risk using a product you cant possibly have know was genuine in order to save money.

EL – I’m trying not to laugh at your comments – not really PC are they 🙂

To be honest, I wouldn’t mind if someone would rather see a particular vet for whatever reason, personal or professional. You make a good point regarding leaving a practice if not happy with the service though.

(FBK: I have been able to get Propalin from the internet (offshore) without a prescription. It was real too.)

So you have managed to illegally import drugs – I have no argument for that if you’re happy to break several laws. Just how are you certain it was the “real thing” you were buying?

FunkyDunk – 2 comments on that. Whilst it would seem we charge silly prices compared with equivalent human meds, we are unfortunately bound by the “drug cascade” which effectively means that, even if there are identical human alternatives, we must prescribe veterinary specific versions that are produced in much smaller volumes and are therefore much more expensive.

As for the online pharmacies, as mentioned previously, the fact that they can buy in huge volumes direct from drug companies and have very basic overheads mean they can often sell drugs for less than vets pay direct from their wholesaler.

That said, I have worked in some places where drug mark ups are a little excessive. As ever, if you don’t like what you’re getting, shop around. Don’t expect to get bargain basement pricing and the best available treatment though – it rarely happens.

oops. Double post

DR – no idea where you live but, if that’s genuinely the case, complaints should be made. Any practice by law, currently has to provide some form of emergency cover 24/7. Even if its via an answering service / out if hours clinic. Whether that’s a good thing is another argument.

Yes, as I stated earlier, £50 does sound steep for a routine consultation, especially if that doesn’t include drugs or any other investigation. Still depends on location – would that be in London?

ernie_lynch – I’m going to leave this thread on a high, thanks 🙂 . I’m off to bed – 12 hour day again tomorrow 😉

You know that screen that faces away from the client where you pretend to write notes and stuff? That’s really you googling the symptoms isn’t it?

Busted 😳

by your argument, are you saying that vets use the sale of drugs to subsidise the consultation fees?

Nope, we’re not allowed to do that. But there is profit involved in any sale of goods. Internet pharmacies, due to volume of sales, minimal overheads and no provision of 24hour service, can sell drugs for less then we can buy from wholesalers. Logic dictates that, if vets sell less medication but are still required to provide the same service, they will have to charge more for time. Some may argue this is a fairer way to do things but, as this thread highlights, people are reluctant to pay realistic fees for a consultation etc and the last thing vets want to do is put more people off bringing their animal in in the first place. If you speak to any accountant they will be able to show you how the majority of practices lose money during the average conultation, when all out-goings are considered…

You most certainly can’t buy Propalin without seeing a vet regularly as it’s a POM. Other meds maybe but not propalin.

I have to concede that it does sound like you may have a somewhat “relaxed” vet currently – a full clinical examination is a given at any repeat prescription check. I would have to question the need for a blood pressure check, urine sample etc every time though. As with any business, you are free to use whoever you chose and as I’ve mentioned above, it should be straight forward to transfer your details over to a different vet if you aren’t happy with the service you’ve received.

Also, whilst Dobermans are indeed over represented when it comes to heart disease, if you have one without a murmur and without any clinical signs of heart failure, I wouldn’t stress too much as it sounds like yours is lucky in that respect. You’re right though – it wouldn’t heart to have a listen 🙂

£50 for 5 minutes is steep. I, happily, can afford it. I wonder how many animals suffer needlessly because the vets bills are prohibitive.

Yes that is steep but I’m guessing that’s in an urban small animal practice with high over heads. As for vets bills being prohibitvely expensive, if cost is that much of a issue the PDSA/Blue cross do fantastic work.
The decision to own a pet should factor in whether you can afford to feed, house and pay for any treatment that may occur. IMHO

meehaja – that does sound steep but again, without knowing the case etc etc.

Assuming your cat gets an infection next time and you want to inject her yourself, I’d wonder where you’d get injectables/syringes/needles and what you’d base your antibiotic choice on? Pedantic maybe but that’s like me saying the garage charged me £300 to fix my car – I’m doing it myself next time…..

I’m guessing that I may be fighting a losing battle given your comment on a new cat being cheaper though.

Hmm ok – I thought this may run.

Government rules state she has to be examined every 6 months.

This is true. In order for a vet to prescribe a POM (prescription only medicine) the animal in question has to be “under our care” and seen at “reasonable intervals”. Whilst this is a grey area, most vets consider 6 months as the maximum period between checks, in order to ensure the drugs continuing suitability and check for problems. Whilst I understand your frustration with such checks in an apparently healthy and stable animal, it is a legal requirement.
You say you can get the drugs cheaper online, and yet resent paying for a consultation/prescription. Assuming you do actually want veterinary care within easy reach 24/7, how do expect your local practice to survive. The online pharmacy arguement is similar to that of CRC/wiggle vs LBSs and, if more people use that option, the price of professional time (which is what you’re paying for) can only go up to compensate.
I am a little baffled as to why you have to do research on what is a commonly used and incredibly safe drug though – obviously I don’t know the individual case and may be missing something but, even if you go to another vets, your full history should be passed on to the new vets and continuity of care should be easily achieved.

apparantly the going rate for locums is 250 per 24 hrs

I would say that is the top end of the scale, and would be for just that – ie 24hrs, working a full day then on duty over night.

I’m withdrawing the statement about suicide…it may be an urban myth

Nope – this has been true for a long time. I guess one reason being the relatively easy access to materials to do the deed etc.

The senior partner in my first job used to take anyone seeing practice there aside (from GSCE to final year vet student) and give them a standard lecture on why they should reconsider their career choice and go be a dentist. 😯

Edit – having said all that, there’s no other job I’d rather do. Isn’t the world a strange place 😕

I went with Greenbee last year (Now John Lewis) as they offer almost identical cover to M&S but were significantly cheaper.

Just had my renewal notice through and it’s still cheaper than M&S!

I haven’t had to claim off them yet mind….

Ok, I’ll bite on this one (pun intended)

As mentioned above, do you have any idea how much it costs to run a Veterinary practice? As people’s expectations increase, the cost of more advanced equipment and drug stores increase with them. The cost of providing obligatory 24hr cover along with premises etc etc etc all add up.
As a locum I see a big variation in costs (higher in specialist, city centre practices; lower in rural mixed practice, as you would expect) but I would say that, with some exceptions, it’s the rural practices that massively under charge rather than the other way round.
Whilst £50 does seem a little steep for a quick visit and a few tablets, I’m sure if you actually saw the breakdown of the fees it wouldn’t seem quite so bad.

Unfortunately in this NHS culture, people have lost any value they may have had for health care. For those going to a private GP/Doctor I’m sure the costs incured at the vets seem more reasonable.

And FWIW, in a recent Times Salary study, assistant veterinary surgeons were paid, on average, a similar wage to teachers – and we all know how they’re rolling in cash!

Good points made above – not the most thoughful thread title and did it really need a new thread given the previous one was still on the front page.

Ho hum.

The catch is they’re Talk Talk, owned by the Carphone Warehouse.

I’ve yet to deal with a worse company as regards customer care. Wouldn’t touch them with a barge pole.

Mmm sounds good. I’ll have to check it out tomorrow. Thanks for that 🙂

Sorry – stupid idea. I don’t want it any darker than it already is when I leave for work. I look forward to the clocks going back in the Autumn so I don’t leave for work in the dark and get home from work in the dark!

And I’m in central Britain. So Ner!

Just spent a fair bit on some “Woll” pans. Aluminium (so heat up quick and stay hot with very little gas) with a titanium non-stick coating – lifetime guarantee, hard wearing coating and slippery as a slippery eel on lard (after an initial dab of oil we haven’t really had to use any since).

Thanks for the advice guys.

The weather itself doesn’t bother me – I’m sufficiently experienced/equipped to cope with that. My main concern is whether it would just be a survival mission on sheets of ice.

I did Jacobs Ladder under similar conditions during the last cold spell and, although icy, there enough enough rocks protruding to negotiate the ice patches fine.

Hmm. I guess I’ll see what the weather’s doing in the morning. Seems a shame to waste the great weather but the ice on the top is what concerns me – I’m assuming it’s petty wet & rocky up there? falling off on icy rocks hurts!

Ambrose – blimey, the car was reading -11 at midnight last night and it was chuffing cold first thing but -17!

Which one are you using? I use “Tunein” and get Radio 4 no problems.

Grrr…new forks delivered today! If I beg do you reckon they’ll credit my account with 10% of the value?

I had that last year – 2 days after I ordered some forks they had another 10% off everything weekend. I sent them a grovelling email asking if they’d give me a voucher or something for at least some of the difference. They ignored the email so I sent the forks back, re-ordered and still saved around £25.

Possibly they’re increasing the price for a bit so they can sell them at “40% off” in a month or so 😕

Hmm – I was thinking about some of the older Marzocchis too…

Mackem – thanks for the offer but I think the steerer woulkd need to be fairly long.

Pitduck – that was my first thought but the RRP is a bit steep for him. Anyone selling any cheap? 🙂

I posted some bars to a guy via eBay 2 weeks ago and it hasn’t arrived yet. He opted for bargain basement P&P but fortnately I still sent it 2nd class recorded – tracking info’s still saying the parcel is “in the system”, whatever that means!

Yeah – I’m keeping an eye out for 2nd hand options. They do need to be QR though as he doesn’t really want to change his (tubeless) front wheel.

As above, the “OpenStreetMap” based free maps are pretty good – there are various one available online including some walking/cycling based ones with trail-centre/well know tracks on.

Talkytoaster is a good site to start.

My hope ones seem to be lasting longer so far (compared to RF/Shimano). And the red ones look bling 🙂

I’d agree – I think they’re a bit ‘belt & braces’ as I can’t see how the bolt would unscrew. Having said that, I’d probably try and find a replacement if it were me 🙂

Have a look Here for some good info / advice

Ooh – wife beater! Bad memories of that stuff. Used to drink it but too many bad heads the morning after…. maybe I’m just getting old!

Free sweets seem pretty random IME – got some with my shiny new Edge 800 though 🙂

Fantastic place to ride, so long as you know where you’re going/have a guide. We were lucky as I managed to get a few GPS tracklogs from some guys here but we still missed some great stuff (apparently).

Seriously thinking of going back again next year.

As for bikes, anything will do so long as you’ve got reasonably big (pref dual wall) tyres. We were all on 5-6″ travel bikes with mainly 2.35 Maxxis (HR/minion/advantage/Larsen) and loved it.

Follow the recommended service regime – ie clean & re-apply lube to wipers/sponge every 15-20hrs of riding, esp in winter. Bit of a faff but simple enough to do.

Either that or buy some forks with better seals/warranty (DT or Marzocchi currently I think)

If you are on the back line of your start group you will never get through to the main race

I wouldn’t say that’s the case. The first mile or so of the qualifier is on fast, wide, rocky tracks with sharp switchbacks – plenty of places to over take. Plus there’s always a crash or two in the front of the pack.

It’s difficult to make up too many places after that (unless you spot the sneaky local short-cuts) but I over-took quite a few….. then fell back again on the climb half way down!

an ability/desire to bully/smash/skillfully pass those slower riders is a must too

🙂 – agreed as it does get frustrating getting stuck behind folk on the singletrack. Don’t get as wound up as me though – I’ve never been over the bars so many times in one day, trying to sneak through on that awkward line. Thank god for body armour (it may be hot but you’d be daft not to wear it).