Cheers for posting that angryratio. TBH, we were thinking of going for the new Berlingo or Doblo, mainly because the interior of the new Kangoo is almost as Airfix as our current one!. Very good to see the difference in handling on the new models – the new Kang looks worse than the old Berlingo!

Hmm..Doblo doesn’t sound promising either :?

Hmm..like others have said 4×4 + economic + decent on Mway is a bit ‘moon on a stick’. Of course, a lot depends on how much disposable dosh you have to throw at running costs. If you don’t like ongoing spending on cars, have a real careful think of exactly what you need. From personal experience, unless you really need it, forget 4×4, as you can potentially end up with sub 30mpg and BIG servicing,tyre and repair bills. If you do need a 4×4, just be a bit wary of more complex/unusual stuff (like Subarus) – they’re typically far more reliable than anything by Landrover, but the servicing and parts costs can be a nightmare. Also worth remembering that taller 4×4’s aren’t exactly brilliant on M-ways in high winds, or quick evasive manouvres – tyre noise can also be a drag on a long journey.

Have I put you off a 4×4 yet?!! :D

I think someone suggested the Skoda Octavia estate 4×4 (there’s also Audi’s ‘off-road’ 4×4 estates). I guess at the moment, they’ll be a bit tough to find 2nd hand, but if you can get a good un, they’re very good. If you can find one, Renault also used to do the Kangoo ‘people carrier’ van in 4×4 – fairly economical for a 4×4 and very practical for outdoorsey stuff.

If you wanna go for something a bit different in FWD, you could try something like a Citroen Berlingo, Renault Kangoo, Fiat Doblo. We’ve got a diesel Kangoo (amongst other vehicles!) and I love it! – really practical, holds masses of climbing/biking/camping kit, does 50+mpg on the motorway, cruise all day at decent m-way fast lane speeds – oh, and it has wipe clean floor covering! All of these van-based designs are pretty bomb-proof and economical, er…’cos they’ve been designed as commercial vehicles. The Kangoo in particular has really good ground clearance, so it’s pretty good over rough campsite fields. If your worried about getting stuck in the snow/mud, just get a spare set of front wheels with winter tyres, or carry some snow chains.

For your budget, you’d be able to get a really good used Berlingo/Kangoo/Doblo.

HTH!

p.s. apologies for the downer on 4×4’s – anyone would think my wife bought a used 4×4, (‘cos she’s always wanted one :? ) and I’ve had to spend loads of time & money repairing the damned thing.

Who was the btcc driver who said that if you learnt how to drive a motorbike properly a race car was easy?

Jason Plato? I remember seeing him doing a hilarious back to back slalom test of a Berlingo and Kangoo a few years back – er, which is the main reason I went for the Kangoo!

Had a look at one of the new Berlingo’s, Kangoo and Doblo (we’ve currently got a Renault mobile shed…er…sorry, old shape Kangoo).

The new Berlingo and Kangoo definately look wider and a bit longer inside and, according to the salesman the new Berlingo is bigger, as the van version was designed to be fork-lift loaded with a full pallet (dunno if this is just sales BS tho). For load space, the one that impressed & surprised us was the new Doblo – it’s massive and FWIR has got a completely flat floor (looks like it’d be perfect for an upright internal bike rack).

My Orange 5 was really reliable for the year that i had it but rode like a bag of crap

. Could have been down to tune and/or simply air pressure of shock. I’ve ridden two 2010 Fives with differing rebound/velocity and boost valve tunes on the OE RP23, and the difference in ride was very noticeable (even with the same air pressure). The bike with the later standard tune climbed about 2 or 3 lbs lighter – if that makes sense.

Oh, FWIW, a friend went and got beasted on a shop and ‘locals’ rides at Ambleside a couple of years ago. He reckoned at least 14 of the 20 local riders that turned up were on Fives – allegedly, the popularity is because it’s one of the only bikes that has the reliability to cope long-term with the conditions.

I bought one a couple of years ago ‘cos I wanted a very low maintenance full-sus for riding on local gritstone Peak District trails. (got sick of faffing about with previous multi-pivot bikes and/or getting beaten up on my steel hardtail). After something I could just grab, ride and chuck back in the garage with no cleaning. It went for about 10 months with nothing more than just occasional drivetrain scrubs – until I was forced to wash it to take on hols.

Invested in some Gore sealed cables for it and have been very impressed with the almost total lack of maintenance required on the bike. Main pivot bearing feel as good as new and there’s no creaks or sloppiness in the frame. Now occasionally wash the frame down to look for cracks, but no signs of anything. Stickers are a bit fragile but paintwork cleans up a treat. I keep my wheels on the ground these days, but it gets ridden through lots of rock gardens & loose crabby, steppy stuff, stream/ford crossings and lots and lots of mud. FWIW, I weigh about 13.5 to 14 stone with full gear on.

(er…s’pose I ought to service the rear shock sometime :oops: )

In summary, IME, the bike rides much better than it looks, is reliable and very low maintenance.

Just as stumped as you are. I prefered that shop to the competition

Yeah, it was nice to have another option. The two or three occasions I’d visited on weekdays, there was always at least one other customer in there and the workshop looked reasonably busy. FWIR, I think they are/were linked to the bike station in Hathersage(?), dunno if that has also closed.

Have tried loads, IME, XTR are the best ‘normal’ ones but the Gore sealed ones are head and shoulders above anything else – closest thing to maintenance free and very nice long term crisp shifting. Steep initial outlay and little bit more fiddly to fit, but once on, last for donkeys. Got one set that are still going strong after 3 years of regular Peak District use.

Currymad – good move going for frame only & self build. If you’re intending to go the whole hog with spec., I can thoroughly recommend the Gore sealed shifter cables – initial cost is a bit ‘ouch’, but superb shifting performance and make the Five virtually maintenance free :D

Eventually I will do the forks, Revelation u-turn 150s would cover everything the 5 is best at.

Can also recommend these for the Five – I haven’t got the U-turn cos I wanted Black Box damping, and out of preference, have spaced mine down to 140mm (obviously no faff with U-turn!), the 20mm bolt through really seems to suit the character of the bike (for a 32mm legged fork, it’s b****y brilliant in rock gardens :D )

err…Can you tell I like my Five?! :oops:

Wow, CRC’s price for the 405 is very good. As far as comparative weight goes, the original build on my Five was coming in at 27 to 27.5 lbs, FWIR this was with Pro 2/Stans 355 wheels, Mini brakes, XT drivetrain, Rev team dual air forks, carbon bars. However, as I’d bought the frame with the intention of keeping it as my ‘rough ride’ bike, I’ve swapped over to Pro 3 AM/Flow wheels, M4 brakes, fatter tyres, flat pedals, chunky stem – so in its current build, it’s probably 29+ lbs (though with the latest tune on the shock, it still feels at least as good as the EX uphill, which I find pleasantly surprising!).

Very pleased with the Pro 3 SP-AM4 wheels btw, really seem to suit the Five.

Hmm..Pace RC405 is an interesting suggestion. I used to have one, as well as my 2009 Five. Personally, I could never get that comfortable on the 405, even after trying loads of different stem/seatpost combos. In the end, I found that I just kept defaulting to the Five.

Only my opinion, but I think the Pace was an awesome climber (with right shock pressure, easily as good as my Anthem X). However, I think the descending capability of the bike was spoilt by its comparatively short front-centre, which just accentuated the steep(ish) head angle. Other thing that surprised me was the weight – it was a decent chunk heavier than my 2010 Five frame. Having said that, I think it rode quite lightly (if that makes sense!), and if you fit the frame, I’m sure you’d find it fun. (oh, just keep an eye on its pivots tho!). Just remebered Curryman has an EX9 – well (again only my opinion), but the EX9 and RC405 are very similar in character – 405 is quicker on climbs than EX, but def not as stiff, or as light, or quite so good on descents (though the latter is fork dependant – DT XMC130…..yak!!). 405 will get more looks in the car park though – if you like that sort of thing :D

Hey there Currymad, I’m 6’1″ (34″ inside leg..oo-er missus, and all that!) and am running an 18″ frame Five with either an 80mm or 70mm stem – depending on what I’m riding. I find the top-tube is spot on with both these stems, tho I find the 80mm with low risers is more XCey.

FWIW, my wife has got a Trek EX8 (mens version) in the 18.5″ size – which I ‘borrow’ on occasion. With the original 100mm stem the Trek we both felt super stretched out, it’s now got a 70mm on which is loads better. I had a demo ride of a 19.5 EX9 back in March and remember feeling uncomfortably stretched out – in fairness, the guys at the Trek demo tent said it’d be too big.

Always good to get a demo if you can.

Oh bugger, I was after a post with the cable at the front – bahhh, sure I can live it tho :-)

Just out of interest, do you get any problems with crud fouling the cable mechanism?

If you’ve the money Id get the 5 frame or Pro build.

Yep, good advice. My LBS did me a bit of dosh off a Five frame, then I built it up with a mixture of Merlin/CRC discount parts and used/2nd hand stuff. Basically ended up with SE spec for just over £2k, well..er…OK, maybe just over £2300..ish! (cough…don’t tell my wife :wink: )

I’d say for durability the Orange Five would be the best of the bunch (tho you’ll no doubt get other opinions on here). I’m on my second Five and have never had any problems with ’em – there’s not much to go wrong with ’em really. I’ve also contacted Orange a few times over the years with non-warranty technical queries, and I have to say they’ve been very helpful and honest with their advice.

Before getting my current Five, I had a test ride of the latest Zesty. I really liked the Zesty and IMO, it’s handling & character were so close to the latest Five that it was really only the durability issue that decided it. After speaking with a couple of people about problems with Lapierre and their UK distributor, I went for the Five.

Not ridden the Blur LT, but see enough ‘old’ Blurs and other SC’s to suggest that the frames are pretty durable.

defenders are all very well.. but useless if the diesel freezes up like what was happening to them in aviemore last year.If they dont start then whats the point lol.

May I suggest that “them” are very thick then?

How do you think trucks operate in Alaska? Diesel clouds at minus ten. It freezes solid at about minus 100 – nowhere gets that cold. They just use additives to lower the freezing point. If they can operate trucks in Alaska, they can easily do so in Aviemore.

Might be wrong here, but FWIR an old truck driver told me that if you add a bit (c.10%) of petrol to you diesel it stops it freezing. I’ve run my diesel van with about a 30:70 petrol/diesel mix after the wife put petrol in by mistake :roll: and despite it being a ‘modern-type’ common rail engine, it didn’t miss a beat – so I’m guessing the old anvil engines that Land Rover fit will run on anything :wink:

Ta for the suggestions. I think it’s Inorganic that’d be more relevant to his interests.

It’ll take a couple of years hard study before he’ll be able to synthesise his own designer drugs

:lol:

Brilliant! Thanks for the info. I know what’s gonna be on my Xmas pressie list :-)

However, as others have mentioned, four wheel drive may help get you moving, but when it comes to stopping, you’ve still only got four wheel brakes, the same as any other car.

Yea, last winter I was getting a bit complacent and very nearly came to grief with the two other 4×4 in front of me. I’d got Bridgstone snow tyres on, ABs, EBD and ESP – but once you’re sliding down a 1 in 10 black ice covered hill, you’re stuffed! Once your ABS thinks the vehicle is stationary (at, say 2 or 3mph), it stops working and you very slowly slide into things. (I’d wondered why there were 2 other 4wds parked in the ditch :? )

What gets me is the housewives in Volvo XC/BMW X3/5/ Range Rovers who think they can charge around like normal then when they hit some ice things go really wrong. Grrr.

Yup, no matter what vehicle and driver aids you’ve got on a non-studded tyred vehicle, there’s no getting around the laws of physics – despite all the BS the manufacturers come out with. IME, once you’re sliding on polished ice, a lot of the end result comes down to luck.

(fwiw, my opinion is based on 30 years driving of all sorts of stuff)

My wife’s got a Fiat Panda 4×4 with ‘proper’ mud & snow tyres(don’t laugh!) – it’s absolutely ace in the snow or on muddy fields & tracks. Always surprises me what it’ll get up & down (though I managed an unintentional (cough) 180 power-spin in it yesterday). One of her friends has also got a Panda 4×4 and last year she had to rescue her husband in his Defender! – can you imagine his shame :-) A 1.2L Panda trying to tow 2 ton of loaded Landy out was quite funny tho!

His excuse was that the Panda is so light that it floats across places where his Landy sinks…..yyeees…OK :wink:

I’m not gonna defend or attack the students for protesting, as it and the whole cuts thing is a pile of poo. It’s the sensationalist media coverage that I find laughable – some of the TV presenters really should be shown ‘Brass-Eye’. Mind you, maybe they have seen it, and their whole presentation is a parody….hmmm

Oh, btw, good point made by Papa Lazarou – most of the Govt’s cuts wouldn’t be required if they closed all the existing tax loop-holes. Ahhhh, but that’d involve squeezing the Tory party funders & supporters, like Lord Ashcroft etc. So, though the Govt say ‘we’re all in this together’, as usual the general low-middle income part of the population is in it a whole lot more.

I think a lot of people don’t appreciate the historical reasons behind the creation of what has become the EU – last two World Wars starting in Europe yada yada. FWIR reading somewhere, the origins of the EU date back to a French/German (& possibly UK) trade agreements over Iron & Steel trade. HTH somehow.

Oh, and good luck getting an objective balanced view on this forum :D

Not fixed to any time of year at the moment. Duration of stay wise, I’m thinking of 6 weeks, whilst my wife is thinking 4 weeks!

you just know with a royals story this loud the government are up to something they don’t want to be noticed…I’m not sure if this is nasty enough, what else are they cooking up?

Aren’t they working on rigging the voting system to skew things in their favour? Reduce the amount of electable MP’s and keep the unelected House of Lords as it is. Ahh, they don’t change do they?!

I’ve got a 2008 P7, which is superb – bought it in preference to Cotic Soul. However, I think the P7 frame has since been beefed up significantly to pass the latest CE(?) regs, and it’s now heavier. The 2008 frame is no flyweight! Not sure how the latest frames ride compared to stuff from Cotic & Genesis – Guess the best bet is to try and grab a demo ride of some stuff.

Good luck choosing :-)

the size of one set of pistons only tells you nothing (unless you’re say comparing hopes and they’ve only changed the caliper piston size)

Yes, I’d just be changing the caliper, so no change at lever. Tho, I don’t know the diameter of the piston in the lever – mind you, got half a shed full of Hope spares, so shouldn’t take too long to find & dismantle a disused lever of the same type.

but without knowing what pressure is behind it, for a given input force at the lever, you won’t be able to …

er…yeah, maybe some massive assumptions to be made :lol: Now, where’s the back of that fag packet :wink:

Yeah, I getting the idea now :D I’ve got some Elixirs on another bike, which from the lever design, I’m guessing have v.small pistons compared to some. (very good power on Elixirs BTW, but the ‘original mini’ lever M4 combination has much better modulation/power balance).

bigger piston = more force.

Hmm…if that’s the case, it sounds like I really need to find out the diameter of the Tech X2 piston, so I can compare and (don’t laugh!) calculate the % of additional power I’d get.

p.s. took me so long to write my last reply that I missed TJ’s explanation of pressure & lever feel…………oops! Yeah, what you’ve said is what I think is reflected in my back to back on-bike testing. Difference in power between Hel & Goodrich is extremely close, and I wonder if the actual difference is down to ‘sharper’ feel at lever.

When the hose bulges you are effectively increasing the surface area that the fluid is acting on. As pressure is force per unit area, by increasing the area, you are reducing the pressure at the piston.

Yeah, that makes sense to me. I guess on the bike, the rider would compensate by pulling the lever further and/or harder & guess it’s only noticeable when switching between bikes.

I’m going to throw another thing into the mix here (I’m not just s**t stirring…honest!). Last year, my wife and I both had Orange Fives in the same size, with exactly the same brakes. Both came with plastic hoses, but in some circumstances the brakes felt a bit weedy. So, I changed the hoses for ‘Hel’ braided on my bike, and Goodrich on hers. Both bikes had new fluid from the same bottle and were bled in the same way. Now, to me this is quite a strange one – with the plastic hoses, the brake power & modulation felt exactly the same, but with the braided, my bikes brakes (Hel hoses) felt much sharper and very slightly more powerful. The only obvious difference was that the Hel hoses appear to have a smaller diameter than the Goodrich. I’m sure there is definate difference – so, I’d wondered whether its the smaller diameter of the hose?

p.s. for any braided hose doubters – IMO, they’re a worthwhile upgrade if you want to improve your brakes performance (not just bling), but can’t afford to shell out £400+ on some really nice new Formulas or Maguras (hint hint…nearly Xmas :wink: …….some hope!)

Local garage have welded a patch over it, £15 and passed the MOT. Said they would be surprised if it lasted a year, but it has given me time to hunt for a new part, found s/h one for £70 and new ‘own-brand’ type for £160.

Nice one :-)

Your exhaust sounds very similar to ours – luckily ours went in the back half behind the flexi joint. Same thing with the renewal aswell, the reminder came through this morning! Looks really tempting when you read all the parts it covers, but I notice there’s no mention of their cop-out exclusions – well, fancy that eh?…pah! Like yourself, we won’t be renewing.

Ah, sounds like you’ve experienced the exclusions then. Since buying the car 10 months ago we’ve had to replace the exhaust, a front suspension wishbone, two suspension drop-links, CV boot gaiter, cover plate on the differential, radiator, oh and water is getting into one of the headlights, plus the switch on tailgate – None of this lot was covered by the warranty.

TBH, a lot of it is our own (OK, ALL my wifes) fault. In a classic ‘how not to buy a car’ way, she saw the car for sale at a main dealers while we were on holiday. Before I’d had chance to have a good look over and under the car, she’d bl**dy well signed the sale agreement. I was not best pleased, but took a smidge of comfort when she mentioned it came with a ‘Platinum RAC Warranty’ (which she paid extra for :roll: ). If we lived nearer the selling dealer, the car would have been straight back there. I guess it’s one of these ‘learnt the hard way’ life lessons, but in hindsight, I wouldn’t bother paying anything for an RAC Warranty.

I know the guy at my local garage quite well and he basically told me he’d prefer it if I didn’t do it through them as the claims companies are difficult to work with.

Yes, this is a similar problem to the one I’m having. It’s only a minor electrical fault (tailgate release switch), but the main dealer wanted £73 to do a diagnostic check, which wouldn’t be covered by the warranty. Checked with RAC and, even if the check identifies a fault that is covered, they won’t pay for the diagnostic check! The guys at our local independant garage reckon they know what the fault is, as it’s a common one for the model of car – but, on past experience they won’t deal with RAC Warranty people. I’ve also heard this from another independant I use, so from you’ve said aswell, it sounds like there’s a pattern(?).

I’ll try and find out if they have an authorised garage around here though. Cheers for the feedback.

Trent Steel, cheers for the supplier details – they’ve also got some other stuff that’ll be spot on for work use (lot cheaper than I’ve previously paid). Thanks.

How much do you want?

We buy it in 1000L at a time from a company called Univar.

Only after a litre or so – that’ll last me about 3 or 4 years (unless I drop the bottle like I just did with my Industrial Meths…argh!).

Cheers for the info.

p.s. didn’t see the booze refs coming;) er..anyone tried Marstons IPA recently?

Thanks for the feedback. FWIW, it’s the second set of Superstars that I’ve had problems with. Never had problems with brake manufacturers own brand pads (Hope, Magura, Avid or Shimano) in over 10 years – so after todays episode, I’m going back to branded pads.

Is 44 yoof enuff?

I reckon if you’ve got size 10 feet, you might get away with it :wink: