Very good but Dredd could be done a lot better.

The nats are now supported by Lego and Sean Connery. I am sure this extra support will sway many undecided voters to the separatists cause. Meanwhile the president of the united states has provided his backing to the UK.

Well combined with your strong hints and suggestions it looks like you have found definite proof. But on closer investigation it turns out the FT’s foreign affairs correspondent Gideon Rachman started his career at BBC news. So naturally he will be biased and we will have to ignore anything he says. 😆

Gordimhor I would like to apologise on behalf of the one unionist that told Sean Connery to keep his nose out of it. Let’s face it the separatist movement has not had any support outside of Scotland apart from him.

but Obama’s scripted statement shows he was more receptive.

Oh, and it was definitely scripted

Any real proof of that Ben? I didn’t think so. It just goes to show being a nat means you don’t have a very close relationship with reality. 😆

Obama believes the UK is better together. Does anyone worth mentioning actually support separation?

Interesting figures JY. Where did you get them from?

Have you ever ridden dual ply? You won’t want to take them off once you have.

Junkyard you don’t like to accept you are wrong do you. I accuse you of using a strawman and then I get a flood of them from you. 🙄

Did you hear them this week [ ok lab were not involved in this] using figures that the source said they had abused by a factor of x 10 for an example of just how noble and honest they are
Leaks suggesting currency share is still on the table etc

Oh so we should never believe any politicians ever because they have lied in the past. The leak from one person, supposedly Vince Cable, hardly negates what the others have said unless you are massively biased. Why is the currency union so important to you?

The SNP are more likely to say there will be a currency union because it is such a big issue to Scots.

Don’t you need your own currency and central bank to join the Euro?

Wan it is not just GO though it is the Conservatives, Labour and Lib Dems all saying no to currency union as well as the majority of people in the UK according to polls. A currency union does not make sense to the UK I am afraid. I am sure there would be no problem setting up a Scots pound.

I do agree both sides lie and make ridiculous assumptions/claims/lies about what may or may not happen afterwards.
Nice attempt to side step the point that if you wish to complain about something then you should not do it yourself. Most people would not need this pointing out to them.

.
There is a big difference between someone on a forum making an assumption and the potential government of iScotland doing the same and potentially misleading voters.

I only repeated what you said using China as the example

No you took my comment and spun it in a negative manner away from the original meaning without answering or countering my assertion, pretty much the definition of a strawman. The US, Japan, France and Germany all have stronger economies than the UK and you could have used them as an example if you wished but China was the only negative choice available to you. The point I made was that Westminster or to be more precise the various governments that have worked there have guided the UK into having the 6th highest GDP economy in the world, I think that is pretty good going for a country of around 60 million people. Do you not agree that vilifying Westminster is juvenile and petty or is everything that happens in Westminster really deserving of contempt? Things that Westminster can be proud of include the welfare state, NHS and one of the highest foreign aid budgets in the world.

And then you make assumptions about what rUK will do afterwards with “wave”

I am big enough to admit I am wrong to make assumptions. Thanks for pointing out that you agree the SNP is also wrong to make assumptions as well, such as sharing institutions and a currency.

Every post you moan about something and then do it yourself:roll:

Feeling aggrieved is not showing contempt so we will have to disagree on this one. 😉

China is second so they must to …perhaps we should have a one party state then ? Linking the fairness of the political system wiht the economic susccess of the country is not that wise IMHO

You are right again, I should not have linked the greatness of the UK to just the strength of our economy when there are so many other things to choose from. Isn’t this one of those strawman (your new favourite word) arguments anyway? The fact is that the UK has a very strong economy and Scotland currently benefits from it. It will be a gamble letting wee eck loose with the Scottish economy and that is not an assumption.

Junkyard I did google cooperation between ROI and the UK and there is the RNLI, a couple of governmental councils and some cooperation on energy as there is with other European countries though. My problem is the SNP making a number of assumptions about what the UK is going to do after Scottish independence. There is no agreement in place for this wish list of shared institutions but I suppose it helps to stop Scots from worrying about the disruption and costs involved with independence. If Scots don’t mind being misled by the SNP then good for them.
As for contempt, how about the contempt that is shown for Westminster by the nats on here? Is that Westminster the building, the MPs that work there or the whole UK political system? The UK has the 6th largest economy in the world, they must be doing something right.

We plan to maintain shared services in areas where it makes sense to do so, and where it is in the interests of both Scotland and the rest of the UK, such as:

NHS Blood and Transplant
the Royal Mint
the Research Councils
Air and Maritime Accidents Investigation
some expert and technical advisory groups, for example the Committee on Radioactive Waste Management
the Green Investment Bank
the Hydrographic Office

Where functions continue on a shared services basis, there will need to be adjustments to the governance of these bodies to ensure there is appropriate accountability to the Scottish Government and Scottish Parliament. These can build on arrangements already in place for cross-border bodies dealing with devolved matters.

Get real nats you are going to be a separate nation that the UK will be competing with. As if the UK is going to make “adjustments to the governance of these bodies to ensure there is appropriate accountability to the Scottish Government and Scottish Parliament”. The only thing the UK will be doing is waving goodbye.

No, it’s simply the realisation that Westminster will look after its larger and more important constituencies and to them Scotland is an irrelevance except for what can be extracted from it.

If there is a whining Scot event at the commonwealth games you are on course for a gold medal.

More support for a currency union

I don’t get all of this anti EU sentiment. Continental cheese is fantastic and the women aren’t half bad after you have got them to shave their arm pits.

Ben it is not just the BBC that have given UKIP a lot of free publicity it is happening across the media regardless of political bias.

Junkyard I don’t understand a word you say. Now take the following statement,

THIS because the alternative costs rUK and adds costs for the reasons already stated
I doubt anyone will convince you and if they do you will just ask for us to get the debate back on track

Just what on earth do you mean, no punctuation and poor English do not a proper sentence make?

What does that mean? Scots won’t get treatment when visiting England?

Ben if you fall of your tricycle while visiting the superior trails south of the border I am sure we will patch you up and send you back. 😉

Any evidence for this?

No. But can you name another country that does?

It would not be a cost to the rUK of £8m, it would be a loss of £8m in custom for specialist departments in the rUK, which may be enough to not make them viable to continue running as they are.

In your opinion.

Any evidence to support the idea that NHS Scotland gets seamless access to specialist departments in England at this moment in time?

I got the following from google.

NSD funds services provided in England through two distinct funding streams:
*a contribution to the NHS England for Scottish access to highly specialist services which are provided on a UK basis. Access is ensured through a service agreement.
* by managing a pool of funds (risk share scheme) on behalf of NHS Boards to pay for individual patient referrals for a “prescribed” list of specialised services in England which are not included in the service agreement with NHS England.

Let us get this back on track shall we. iScotland will not have the same access to healthcare in the UK that it does at the moment. Wan has provided figures that prove it will only cost the whole of the UK £8 million and that is not totally money down the drain because it means that services will not have been provided therefore less cost. iScotland will be able to get these services from the UK on a case by case basis or it can go anywhere else for them. What Scotland will lose is access to UK wide seamless healthcare.

Junkyard the NHS in the UK will not collapse without Scottish patients.

Who has claimed it would?
Wouldn’t that be you with the statement below?

The problem is if Scotland does not fund them then they NHS england has a budget short fall and issues with economies of scale , it is more expensive for rUK to provide less and they have to lose staff /beds/provision as well.

Junkyard the NHS in the UK will not collapse without Scottish patients. The figures that Wan uses above show it to be £8 million in one year. That is peanuts for the NHS. You can repeat your mantra that the UK is too poor to live without Scotland as much as you want, I won’t be believing you any time soon. You need to get your head around the fact that independence will mean additional costs for iScotland and the UK.

Wan the currency union makes a lot of sense to an iScotland and none to the UK.

Junkyard. If scotland does not pay for this then GOSH has less money coming in therefore rUK/ GOSH has to do one of two things
Completely missing out the fact that it could go to NHS England for more money. As Wan stated it is not that many patients anyway. Good luck to building your own centres of Excellence.

We would not have to lose staff due to already existing shortages in staff. Link, if anything less patients from Scotland will be better for the UK. Are you saying the the UK is too wee and too poor to go it alone without Scotland?
The truth is that an iScotland will not be guaranteed the same level of access to healthcare that it currently gets as being part of the UK.

Ben you seemed to have missed “a contribution to the NHS England for Scottish access to highly specialist services which are provided on a UK basis“. An independent Scotland will no longer be in the UK so there will be no service agreement for treatment.

Wan, the non-EEA countries provide “urgent or immediate medical treatment” and not access to specialist services. You really should read what you post as evidence.

Ben you seem to be making a habit out of being wrong.
Link
I now expect you to change the subject rather than admit you are wrong and that the argument for independence has been weakened, this is what you usually do anyway. 😉

Independent means going it alone, if Scotland goes it alone then I wish all Scots good luck. The UK does not have any reciprocal healthcare agreements with other foreign countries so there is no reason why we should have one with an iScotland.

Oh and I was referring to the “that” in your original comment. 🙂

Why would independence change that or make life worse/harder for patients.
Independence would change that or is healthcare being added to the long list of things that we will be sharing? Next you will be arguing that the NHS is an asset. What part of independence and standing on your own two feet do Nats not get? I think we will mark this one down as a win for the better together campaign.

Nobody said this is a debate Wan. If you know something I don’t on the subject please share it with me. My understanding is that if Scotland becomes independent then Scots will no longer have free access to specialist NHS services in the UK.

The difference is that those treatments are currently available to all Scots free of charge. It won’t be the case after independence.

Enlighten me then.

Wan that’s right, Scots that can afford private treatment in the UK will still be able to jump the queue. Scots that can’t afford private treatment will not be able to and will miss out on the specialist treatment that is only available in the UK.

The difference in voting yes might be a lack of reality thing. 😀

I want people who have a life balance and set of values that means they live where they want to live rather than move to somewhere they dont like just to further their career.

Why should they not like London? Do all Scottish politicians not like London? Do all Scottish people not like London? I think your rampant nationalism is clouding your judgement

It would seem that politicians don’t spend all of their time in Westminster.
MPs spend less time in Westminster

Have you ever watched first ministers questions? There are not many politicians that stand out. We struggle to get enough decent politicians to make a cabinet from million people, good luck doing the same from only five million.