The independence debate is not in the national news as much as I thought it would be although this could be the quiet before the storm. What is it like in Scotland? Much in the media? Anybody had people knocking on the door canvassing for support?

Imagine the tories without the lib dems to hold them back. Things could have been a lot worse. There are many things to consider when slating coalition governments containing parties with not much in common.

As he is a politician of course he is full of shit.

Politicians do lie, who doesn’t, but they also have to compromise to get anything done. Take Clegg for instance he said no to tuition fees and traded that out to the tories probably thinking he would get PR voting. As a junior partner in a coalition he never really had any power to get anything done without compromise. Are we all not a little harsh on politicians?

Good to see you have calmed down old bean. Think calm thoughts, control your breathing, unclench your fists etc. All I did was say nats…

I definitely meant impartial. She undoubtedly knows her stuff about the EU I just doubt that she is impartial on the subject. After all there is more support among Scot expats than there is in Scots actually living in Scotland for independence according to some polls I have seen.

JY I suggest you calm down, especially taking into consideration that you practically had a mental breakdown online a few pages back. You are an intellectual heavyweight, but only in your own opinion unfortunately.

Right, so a Professor at one of the top universities in the world and en expert on EU law and you’re dismissing her as unreliable because she’s Scottish?

I said impartial not unreliable old chum.

She is obviously impartial coming from Scotland herself. Being as the white paper is based on a series of assumptions another assumption about automatic EU membership is just what the nats ordered.

We seem to be criticising the house of Lords but not addressing the problem of no second chamber for an iScotland. Yes the house of Lords can be improved on but no second chamber for iScotland can also. I personally do not think iScotland would be too wee to have a proper two chamber system and this should be something voters in Scotland should be interested in. I often hear separatists using the phrase “a fairer more democractic society”, IMHO no second chamber means a less democratic society.

It has been a bit wet and is set to rain on Sunday. Expect mud, lots of mud.

iScotland really should have a second chamber of some kind, I don’t think special committees would carry enough weight to keep holyrood in check. If this is not the case you are going to end up with less democracy if you are not careful. Admittedly the house of lords needs to be fully elected sooner rather than later.

To add a bit of balance to the discussion just as Ben thinks the Westminster system needs breaking I personally think the Holyrood system needs breaking. It is a complete waste of money and another worthless layer of bureaucracy. Ben keeps saying that the Westminster system is broke but it was that system that created a Scottish parliament. The SNP have given nothing to Scotland in comparison.

Yes ben did pick the lowest area to highlight his point but at least it was true.

Not so true after all 😉

Ben’s figures are incredibly misleading as he did pick the lowest figure in an area with very low population density. But then again when you are a nat you have to be an expert in spinning information because there are no facts to back up independence.

Ben there are working trams in Manchester and Sheffield on only £2 per head. It makes you wonder how the SNP wasted all that money in Edinburgh.

I disagree with muddydwarf. I find English people to be oblivious towards most other nations and I think this winds up the smaller nations around us to a certain extent. The English don’t seem to suffer from the identity crisis that Scots, Irish and the Welsh appear to have.

Agree with flashes it is so heavy you might as well get a tent.

If your mouth or your lips are dry then you need a drink. You can tell how well hydrated you were on a ride by the colour of your urine when you take a pee, see the links below.
Link
Link

Sorry if this offends but I find that craft ales lack any sense of subtlety, sophistication or balance of flavours. Once the novelty of hop bombs has worn off I would suggest a beer festival or two to sample our own ales and to look towards the continent after that. Bottled ales tend to taste naff compared to beer served from the barrel though.

Epicyclo I can name a country that is willing to surrender it’s independence, it is called Scotland. The majority of Scots are still not interested in independence and look set to show their support for the union by voting no according to pretty much every poll.

“In a leaked Scottish cabinet memo, the finance secretary, John Swinney, estimated the costs of a new Scottish tax authority alone at £650m. The Institute of Chartered Accounts Scotland had put those costs at £750m, while other experts suggested a new welfare system would cost £560m”Link

£200 million is not what he said, in fact he said “The initial startup costs of Scottish independence could be as little as £200m but the final tally would be decided in a “poker game” of post-referendum negotiations”. So it could end up being considerably more.

You can’t run a country based on guesses THM.

If we don’t have to contribute to the twin white elephants of Trident and HS2, we’ll have billions more to spend on schools, hospitals and other things that will help real people.

Do you know how much it is going to cost to run Scotland as an independent country? It could end up swallowing any savings made on Trident and HS2. The fact that you don’t even have solid figures for setting up all of the institutions needed to run an independent country does not really help. I find it very worrying that this late into the debate a yes vote is still a leap of faith due to the number of unanswered questions.

Why do we need a televised debate about independence between two individuals? I understand the need for debates between political party leaders in the run up to an election because it gives the electorate a chance to judge their debating styles, gauge their personalities, and to decide who they want to run the country. With the case of Scottish Independence though people are not voting for Alec Salmond or the SNP so a one on one debate does not make as much sense. Maybe a panel of members from both sides would be more appropriate?
I can’t help but feel that this television debate is distracting from the fact that a lot of questions about independence have yet to be answered.

Mmmbops are getting a bit old now and finding a decent one for a realistic price is nigh on impossible. They are a harsh ride but they are still a lot of fun. Don’t pay over £50 for one regardless of how good the paint looks, you could get a Ragley Marley in the sale brand new for about £100.
How about on-one 456 evo? 456 evo

Independent Scotland ‘could not charge English students tuition fees’

More SNP dreams are shattered. In the event of independence I would like to thank Scots for providing English students with free degrees.

How much did Chelsea pay for Fabregas? He only made the bench.

JY you backing down even 1% I will take as a win, so just this once I will let it slide 8).

THM devo max would be a disaster. It would allow holyrood to do as it pleases while knowing that it could always rely on Westminster to bail it out. For Holyrood to retain credibility it either needs not enough powers to get out of its depth (ie the current scenario) or to know if it makes any mistakes no one is coming to the rescue (full independence). If Holyrood ever needed bailing out by the UK I can’t imagine there would not be a cry to take powers back. I do think it is independence or nothing, but I am open discussion on this.

JY, I didn’t say it was untrue I said it was rant of the week. Reread it, you sounded like a man possessed. As for you questioning my intelligence didn’t I have to pull you up for using out of date figures recently? Wouldn’t an intelligent person check their facts first? Although I am sure you are intelligent, at least in your own opinion anyway.

Junkyard wins the hysterical rant of the week award.

Few too many beers after work?

Has it ever occurred to Scots that the rest of the UK already see Scotland’s relationship in the union as unequal and any more powers devolved to Scotland result in even more inequality? I personally don’t want an English parliament to address this either, I prefer less government where possible. If you don’t like the union as it is then surely a vote for independence is the best way to change Scotland rather than waiting to see if any more powers are given to Scotland. If the union is to be changed in any way I really think all parts of the UK should be given a vote on it.

He needs to come out of the closet Ben.

I liked this from the sctosman – its dangerously on topic so forgive me

In England and Wales, 38 per cent of those questioned said if Scotland left the UK it should “definitely be allowed” to continue to use the pound, while 31 per cent believed it should “probably be allowed” to do so.

So rUK want them to have the pound as well.
AS has been correct all along they will share the asset

Junkyard your figures are out of date. The article states that the survey was from 2013. This article LINK shows that 53% of people in the rest of the UK are against a currency union and the data is from a poll in April 2014.
So AS is still wrong about a currency union and nats such as yourself should check your facts.

It would also mean smaller prizes and less lottery funding for charities, the arts etc.It is almost as ridiculous as expecting the UK to act as a lender of last resort to iScotland.

Have we covered iScotland keeping the national lottery? Salmond seems to think that they will. Is there anything that iScotland won’t be keeping apart from nuclear weapons and a share of the national debt. In iScotland the oil will never run out and based on what I have heard from the yes campaign it would seem that they are never going to run out of blind optimism either.

Here are some examples of the worst anti Scottish sentiment that I have seen.

In no way is it in the bag for either side. I waver between optimism that Scots are smart enough to choose the Yes option, and pessimism that too many Scots are too scared, servile or self-interested to do so.

The combination of those fearful of change, those self-loathing Scots who think we are incapable, and the combination of the mass media being generally against it will, I think, be too much to overcome.

Both comments come from yes supporters on here. Just because someone does not agree with you it does not make them “scared, servile or self-interested” or “self-loathing Scots”. The fact that the majority of Scots are against independence means that the two yes supporters that made these comments actually look down on the majority of Scots.

Use one of these as well Link. Dirty camelbaks give you the trots, they need thoroughly cleaning.

Is it going to be any tastier than non GM? Will it be considerably cheaper than non GM? Probably not and the only person to benefit will be the farmer. No benefit to me means I am better off sticking with what I already eat.

I was unaware that the UK, or the EU for that matter, had a food shortage. So we don’t need to increase production to feed our populace. If other countries have a food shortage problem let them grow GM crops. I really would not want to have GM food forced on me.

Neither of the Dredd films go into the ethics of the judges enough. The judges are judge, jury and executioner rolled into one and justice is dispensed on the spot. The picture below defines the totalitarian state that Dredd lives in with the much larger Statue of justice looking down on the Statue of liberty, the emphasis being that the Judges and upholding the law are more important than individual liberty.