I meant it was beyond your grasp not that it was actually difficult to grasp; imagine you not getting that eh.

Resorting to personal insults 😥 I must really have upset you when I proved you wrong again.

Ninfan are you saying an undisclosed source was spouting nonsense? 😆

you never read phrase like “sources close to the PM said”

You do in the Daily Mail and papers of that ilk. Mystery sources can be made up, I believe George Clooney just caught the Mail out lying using an undisclosed source, proving that newspapers use made up sources to make news.

I know this is too complicated for you to get but trust me.

Yet more wisdom that only you in your supreme knowledge could know. 🙄

As I said previously let us stick to facts and not treat second hand gossip as gospel.

FWIW it amused me that you just spent an entire paragraph talking about what I said happened then finished off by criticising me for saying it happens.

No I didn’t so don’t try and weasel your way out of being proved wrong. You claimed “it is very common for the politicians spokesperson to brief off the record”. You don’t work in the press and you don’t work in politics so you wouldn’t know either way. You dissect everybody’s comments and do your best to prove them wrong and you have been caught red handed talking complete and utter nonsense using your own tactics. Take it like a man old boy, admit you were wrong and we can move on.

The original article was supposedly from a senior source in the EU speaking about Juncker’s views regarding an iScotland . Who is this source, how credible are they, how close are they to Juncker? I usually dismiss second hand information for the gossip that it is although I am not surprised that Ben took it as gospel. What is surprising is the way Blair Jenkins reacted “This is a timely intervention and completely debunks the scaremongering by the No campaign over Scotland’s future as an EU member”. It is not a credible intervention and it does not debunk any claims the no campaign have made about iScotland and the EU. Blair Jenkins response is misleading and smacks of desperation.

As for whether politicians brief off the record on a regular basis, it sounds like you have been watching too much House Of Cards.

I dont work in the North Pole but I know it is cold, it is that level of controversial as statements go. If you must have a constant spat with me at least pick something of substance that may actually not be true.
You want proof that politicians brief off the record? BRILLIANT

You said it is “it is very common for the politicians spokesperson to brief off the record” and I asked how you know this. Realistically you don’t know how often politicians spokespersons brief off the record do you? So when you stated that it occurs commonly you were wrong. Stop trying to make yourself out to be an expert on everything and lets stick to facts shall we old bean 🙄

p.s. I do not have a constant spat with you I am merely pointing out whenever you talk nonsense, you do it to everybody else on here 😉

You said that it was hard to find the word Scotland on the official list. It isn’t difficult at all.

Separatist desperation reaches a new low!

JY Scotland is currently part of the EU as it is part of the UK. There are no agreements stating that England or Scotland are part of the EU, only the UK is part of the EU. If England left the UK I would not expect to remain an EU citizen.

FWIW i am not a fan of un named sources but it is very common for the politicians spokesperson to brief off the record.

Have any proof of that? Do you work in politics or the press? Your arguments rarely stand up to any scrutiny.

On the contrary I have been calling them separatists for quite some time. They support the separation of Scotland from the UK hence separatists. It is easier on the tongue than dissolutionists.

Juncker is not the source used in the article. More desperate separatist lies.

No voters are a minority group and I believe they deserve at least 35% of articles regarding independence are about them. 😉

the author does a fairly reasonable job of being balanced and presents the yes and the no cases reasonably impartially

In an article titled,

Scottish Independence Is Inevitable
The Independence Referendum Is a Test of Scotland’s Confidence

and that ends with,

I shall vote yes this September. The campaign has already taught me that if we don’t make it with this third referendum, there will be a fourth. It’s time to rejoin the world on our own terms.

is hardly balanced or impartial.

The writer of the article is going back to scotland to vote yes and he lives in London. He doesn’t want Scotland ruled from England but is happy to be ruled by it himself. Go figure that out?

Ben that is a very impartial article written in the NY Times….by a Scot! 🙄

They do need to change the graphics though. They look like a tattoo a body builder would have.

Incomplete list of nationals aboard

154 Dutch
27 Australians
23 Malaysians
11 Indonesians
Six UK nationals
Four Germans
Four Belgians
Three Philipinos
One Canadian

RIP

Superstar have had a bit of a rocky ride but it looks like they are really moving in the right direction now. It would be awesome to be able to buy a fully UK made groupset.

In a global economy PPP does not stack up next to nominal GDP. If we were to take our UK money and spend it all in India then suddenly we would be at number 1 in the GDP league based on PPP. Nominal takes the GDP of every country and compares them in the same currency. PPP is like saying our GDP in real terms is smaller than yours but I can buy rice and onions cheaper than you can so our GDP is worth more. That to me is just a way for countries with smaller economies to big themselves up.

Germany 1st
France 2nd
UK 3rd
Italy 4th
Spain 5th

Nominal GDP

Personal opinion there JY. Have you run out of facts? 😉

I don’t think the EU would be far weaker without the UK.

The UK has the third largest economy in the EU, It has one of the leading financial sectors in the world. We also still have a strong armed forces, are a nuclear power, have a permanent seat on the UN security council and strong relations with other non-EU democracies.

So it would be a massive blow to the EU if the UK left.

The SNP is one of the most pro-EU parties

I agree totally with your comment but I think Sturgeon has let the SNP down with her comment. I would have thought the SNP would be trying to woo the EU not using implied threats to force their agenda. Whatever way you look at it Ben it was a negative comment regardless of whether it is a fact or not.

What have the SNP said that could count as anti-EU sentiment?

“There are 160,000 EU nationals from other states living in Scotland, including some in the Commonwealth Games city of Glasgow.If Scotland was outside Europe, they would lose the right to stay here.”

When you combine this with comments from UKIP, Tories, Labour etc it really is unfair on people from other EU countries to be dragged into politics. I don’t think the SNP would kick them out if they did not get automatic entry to the EU, I just think it is negative, project fear tactics to try to appeal to the Scottish electorate.

What threat? you seem to be calling facts a threat.

If I was an EU worker from another country living/working in the UK I would feel threatened by the amount of anti EU comments in the press. I would feel that my right to reside and work were under threat.

Big IF , they might – its probably the most likely but it is not undoubted.

Taken directly from the white paper.
The Scottish Government, supported by the overwhelming majority of Members of the Scottish Parliament, believes that membership of the EU is in the best interests of Scotland. It is our policy, therefore, that an independent Scotland continues as a member of the EU.
Not much doubt there.

teh lack of any hint of objectivity in this debate is somewhat chastening

My original comment noted that UKIP and the main UK parties have all been guilty of anti-EU sentiment and I pointed out that the SNP were now at it as well. You missed the point old bean, put your reading glasses and try to engage your brain next time.

What it the threat then- can you state it please ? It is a bland statement of the law pertaining to what it would mean if iS was not in the EU. Its the truth basically.

In response to junkyard the threat is to the EU and EU citizens currently in Scotland. It must be unsettling enough already with the amount of anti-EU news from UKIP and then the SNP start making their own scare stories up. If Scotland can’t immediately join the EU then they will undoubtedly go through the joining process and kicking out EU nationals would not gain them any good favour. Who would of thought the SNP would use project fear tactics with the EU?

JY it is an implied threat towards EU nationals. What with UKIP and every other party trying to out do UKIP on EU-phobia it just makes the UK look even more inhospitable to other Europeans.

There is nothing wrong with Avids if you have the proper bleed kit. It is well worth the money over cheaper bleed kits and gives a perfect bleed every time. I have Avid and Shimano brakes and the Avids are a lot easier to bleed because the syringes screw into place giving a perfect seal.

You get to continuing steal the oil

But we already get to steal the oil. If Scots want more devolution then there should be something in it for the rUK. Devo-max is moving away from a union of countries towards a small country just outsourcing or sharing various governmental departments from a larger country. If Scotland wants devo-max then they should have to give an increased amount to remain part of the union. An increased percentage of GDP should cover the bill. I see independence as Scotland looking to do what is best for Scotland. After a potential no vote then I think the rUK should do what is best for the rUK and offer devo-max up to Scotland but at a price.

I can’t think of any benefits for the rUK from devo-max? It is not on the referendum paper anyway, if Scots want change they should go for independence it is the only guaranteed change.

That’s right Ben that cyberno gang are a menace to the intelligent debate that cybernats are trying to have 😉 Well done for pointing out one example that is obviously representative of the scots that will vote no. As for the twitter account if only all of those people saying Scotland should leave the union were Scottish then you might stand a chance of actually getting enough votes for independence. But then all yes supporters only ever really wanted was devo-max. Salmond wants to share practically every UK institution because it makes sense for both sides. Most Scots interpret this as we are better together.

Probably the same way England intends to disburse development aid, administer benefits, loan money to students etd during the same period.

The student loans company is 85% owned by the UK government with offices also in England and Wales. So no problems for us there then.
You won’t be able to collect your own tax. Your wallet is in our pocket and if you don’t play ball in negotiations then we won’t let you have any pocket money. More seriously the UK has a much stronger hand in negotiations as a result of this.

This sounds a bit like trying to take a pee without first of all unzipping. You are not going to save any time.

the Scottish government would need to pay £400 million to create new IT systems and processes to handle all welfare benefits itself – which is targeted to happen by 2018 (see timetable above); and
– they would need to pay £500 million to create IT systems capable of handling all their tax administration – the main bulk of which is due to happen by 2020.

So how are they going to collect tax and handle benefits between 2020 and 2018. Are they expecting the UK to do it for them? I wonder how much we can charge them for this? It also does away with the bluff, bullying and bluster from Salmond regarding not paying a share of UK debt if he doesn’t get a currency union. No debt means no tax or welfare systems.

The average yes vote since May is 35%. The average no vote is 46%. An ipsos mori STV poll last week put the no vote at 54%. There has not been a poll this year that has the yes vote in the lead. It would appear that the separatists still have a lot of work to do.

JY bullied me when I proved him wrong about the trams though. I mean I like totally pwned the guy and he just wouldn’t let it go.

JY I would never call you a troll. I did call you a nat once though 😆

Similarly you cannot really blame AS for doing the things that will do benefit his campaign the most even if a portion of that is to appeal to base nationalism.

True. But I can say that he has failed to sell a rational case for independence to Scots according to the polls. I don’t see people changing their minds that much in the months to come either.

THM using the word bully is just not acceptable! It does not fit in with junkyard’s independence forum rules. No doubt he will be along to tell you off 😉

TV debate is on!

Salmond is still trying to get Cameron to debate, but he has had to make do with Darling. Salmond needs to make this an England vs Scotland issue because he hasn’t been able to put across an argument for independence that appeals to Scots on a practical level.