I hadn’t read anything about a bio weapon conspiracy which to be fair was Ming’s point that I said I had read similar. Oops sorry all. I meant that I had read about China claiming it may have originated in US.
This type of thing in the independent??
China/America conspiracy spat

Kelvin, seriously just post the link to Snopes. I’ve had a quick peek but missed anything relevant.

Kelvin, not having a pop but which part of the China American conspiracy thing is made up, is the Twitter thing a fake account, is he not a China spokesperson, did it never happen?

Genuine questions.

Surely appropriate retaliation from a head of state is not just dumb racism?

Is that aimed at me?? That doesn’t answer my question and has no relevance to my post.

Is it fake news that a Chinese minister started the American conspiracy?

Seems relevant if trump is retaliating to those tweets.

JP, shush yourself u silly sausage.

Another problem I see (might have already been mentioned), if these potential lockdowns end up dragging on a bit most people will start looking for excuses, so if you’re seen out and about, that person then mentions it to others which then helps validate them being out and about for their jollies.
Collective responsibility.

A couple of years of this will see the planet smiling (if war is avoided)

Old lonely peeps might find a helpful neighbour or 2

Universal wage trials

Fragility of the current system completely exposed

People realise they don’t need so much stuff

Communities supporting one another

Liverpool will never win the PL

It feels like one of those mind scrambling puzzles, you know the answer but because you don’t like the answer your brain won’t allow you to comprehend it.
‘YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH’, a few good men :@)

Community projects for volunteers are needed asap but difficult with a virus that discourages interaction. Facebook could actually have a real purpose 👍
We need some long term answers to keep the economy ticking along and it’s a perfect time for a new way.

Most countries have a similar plan to ours dazh. We are following many of our neighbouring countries with a very similar progressive shutdown. Germany, France, Italy, Norway, Denmark, Spain are all ahead of our plan and as things progress here we will follow suit. Stopping it is not an option if it cannot be contained which is more or less impossible now

That guardian article is poor dannyh. Norway and Denmark were both further along the scale despite ‘low’ numbers, per capita they were ahead of us.
Delay phases will be different for many countries from now on.

Kimbers. You want us to follow Croatia but not Germany, is there a good clear reason for that?

Some countries can still contain the virus but if worldwide containment isn’t a real possibility anymore then it is still coming so prepare for long shutdowns or different delay tactics across the world

The armchair politicians from the political threads are here in force I see. I think the mods need to get a grip of this thread before it becomes the same group of people agreeing with themselves.

We are following similar procedures to many of our neighbours, we will be shutting down when the time is right just like France, Spain, Norway, Denmark, Italy, Germany etc (they are all further along the scale at this point)
Progressive shut down otherwise long term unsustainable/multiple shut downs

We are doing a good job, keep it up.

Our approach seems logical and in line with many other countries if you consider the data. We are heading progressively towards a shutdown just like many of our neighbours (who are already further along the scale)

Containment doesn’t seem to be a real option worlwide anymore so why are people advocating shutting everything down immediately? Covid 19 is now a virus that is here for ever, it’s now all about rational control, no?

I’m currently hoping the Premier League gets cancelled and Liverpool have to go another year without the title.

In the context of environmental impact, If your ‘doing the right thing’ sometimes is outweighed by your occasional slip ups then the line gets blurred depending on your point of view.

Driving an electric car and recycling ticks some boxes but if you are racking up airmiles regularly or having a large impact through other choices then one man’s inconsistently ethical becomes anothers consistently unethical
I believe I’m consistently ethical in my choices but I drive an SUV and barely recycle so I accept others may view that differently

I know the op isn’t talking about people like me so might be drifting the thread slightly with my musings

Sirromj, a hypocritical messenger may not invalidate the fact of the message in theory but the more hypocrites there are the more the message is ignored.

Ignoring this is just making excuses for the hypocrites.

It’s amazing that, when it comes to climate change, so many people think it better to be consistently unethical than inconsistently ethical.

I don’t think that has been thought through, there is a line where they can be viewed as the same thing.

Klunk, that’s an interesting leap and I would be interested in your workings there. Are you jumping to conclusions because of my imperfect choices?

Now about that pet dog of yours? What is the environmental impact of pet dogs in the UK? :0)

Hypocrisy has a big impact though, I’m not claiming people need to be perfect but if a passionate environmentalist is yelling from his plane seat YOU NEED TO STOP POLLUTING THE PLANET, I’m likely to ignore tbh.

Hot topic of the day analogy- person carries 500 bog rolls out of supermarket while shouting ‘fact is panic buying is bad’

I’m happy with my personal choices and not looking to make any excuses for driving an SUV. I have all sorts of personal reasons and the op isn’t talking about people like me anyway but with a small sacrifice or 2 I could use something more efficient. I choose not to. I rarely worry about recycling either.
I have more important things to worry about. I don’t say that to offend anyone who is more passionate about this style of enviro protection, those bits are just not as important to me as they are to you.

Mmm, I think hypocrisy does have a big impact tbh
People making noise about the environmental impact of suv’s while they personally choose to fly around the world makes me switch off quite quickly

It doesn’t make suv’s any more efficient of course but if those that are passionate about protecting the environment will not commit then the people who are less passionate are very unlikely to listen.

That video appears to prove that buildings don’t just collapse though.
From an engineers perspective you can clearly see foul play, the manner in which the walls collapse would indicate a demolition expert using small controlled explosions.

A very interesting topic.

Current scientific definitions are not the end of the line, just like laws or social views, the more we understand scientifically the more likely new definitions will be backed by scientific research.
You can use current definitions to be ‘right’ in some way but real peepoles are telling you those definitions are way too simplistic for them. It doesn’t seem complicated to me. Let us consider describing gender/sex/race/ism’s etc etc as HUMAN. Everything fits that box very neatly :-)

We are talking about the Runnymede trust report, Drac which part did you think evidenced a racist movement for the leave campaign (I was answering raybans claim that it evidenced a racist movement for the leave campaign.)

Pondo. It’s okay you don’t need to fret I was using a bit of Tom’s logic and leaping from one to a thousand on very flimsy data.
Sorry if that wasn’t clear.

And that’s the problem Tom, you take lightweight data, chop some bits add a couple of grenades and before you know it you are off chatting about Hitler again.

The runnymede trust report you link does not get anywhere close to your claims of a racist movement, 1% of society admit to being very racially prejudiced
25% admit to being a little racially prejudiced
17% of those who admit to being a little racially prejudiced voted leave and 8% voted remain

Any idea what a ‘little racially prejudiced’ actually means in that report? It is very vague and could include minor cultural education matters.

I’m not seeing evidence of a racist movement in those numbers, it looks like society has a small but significant problem with people being ‘ a little racially prejudiced’
Like I said the report looks a bit lightweight and definitely does not evidence a racist movement.

And off we go again, rayban you make some giant leaps on some very complex societal problems based on your on summaries of complicated data. You cut out the complexity and tidy it all up to suit your own agenda.

Racism is a serious societal issue no doubt and education is the key.
What are your thoughts on the claimed 18% of remain voters being racist, I’m guessing that’s more like 40% if we use your logic, how many of those are looking to act upon their racism, do you think they voted remain deliberately for more prey. Wind it back a notch or six.

Thanks for sharing the link Ray-Ban, did you read through the actual report on the Runnymede trust website? Some big points being made but it looked a little flaky on close inspection
Some scary numbers though,
34% of leave voters admit they are either very or a little racially prejudiced
18% of remain voters admit they are either very or a little racially prejudiced.

Do you have a link for your strange sub categories of racial prejudice theories as that looks a little off to me.

The irony is strong up there :-) (edit. Not aimed at Molly)
Collective responsibility requires some soul searching for all of society I’m afraid.

Ray-Ban, the in-out EU ref was talked about and used as a political tool since before 2010, what did you do about that between then and 2016? Any personal responsibility for sitting on your arse and sleep walking into being scammed of your rights? Collective responsibility is where we are at,try a slice before throwing hate cake at others.
And because an education drive didn’t eradicate a problem completely doesn’t mean it isn’t an effective tool. Jeez

‘I’m not defending hate but’ stop making excuses and get a grip, emboldening the bigotry and hate of Ray-Ban and others is not okay on this forum, take it elsewhere.

Why doesn’t the responsibility continue further along from the leave voter, why didn’t the smart people put an end to this a decade ago, how did YOU sleep walk into this? If you want to point fingers then why not start with yourselves and a bit of collective responsibility, You helped legitimise a non binding referendum, you allowed the system to make this possible, tapping on your keyboard about idiots being scammed while sitting there watching your house get burgled sounds bat shit mental to me. Get politicised and make change through education and respect.

Ill feeling about the complexity of brexit or the rise in hate is no excuse for the bigotry and hate posted by some on the current political threads. Emboldening bigotry and hate by allowing, supporting and agreeing with it regardless of which side spouts it seems a little ironic considering the conversation.

It is not okay and completely against the forum ethos. Respect and understanding is needed now more than ever. Education is key.

Pondo, it’s not exactly a robust defense but I’m happy to bite.

Ray-Ban on page 4 quote

**** unity.

Make as many brexiteers lives as shit as you possibly can – by the way you vote and by the way you interact with them on a daily basis. Make sure they lose as much opportunity as possible so they do not hold positions of power. Remainers tend to be better educated and hold better jobs with more influence – that can be weaponized.

He has continued on this theme and has form for this type of rant but you are happy to buddy up with your ‘we’ while trying to undermine (falsely) another forum member calling his shit out.

Take a break from the forum if it’s a difficult time for rational conversation for you.

Pondo, rayban is definitely making those links, he has form (and who is we?)

Ray-Ban is spouting hate and you say ‘we’ to support him but quickly call Tomd a brexiteer to undermine his anti hate view. Get a grip. Jeez

Complicity and responsibility can get complicated though, why does it stop at a leave voter, what about those that have stood back and followed the system, what about those that created the system, what about those that blindly ignore the problems of society because they were just fine. We reap what we sow. Time for change.

If we gave it away Pondo then we can take it back, the journey is long.

A little perspective scotroutes please

Education takes time man.

Promoting hate speech on a cycling website ain’t gonna help nobodies daddy in Spain I’m afraid so people need to get a grip.

Over the next few decades we can take back control from the shortsighted and become a more outward looking country.
The poorly educated whooped us this time but that implies there is a serious problem with education, let’s fix that first. Onward and upward, the battle for a better UK has begun.

Get a bloody grip. Jeez.

You’re my wife all brexies now

Said in Papa Lazarou stylee.

Chin up people. It’s just a case of 1 step backwards to take 2 steps forward.
Use intellygents to win the long game, we can take back control and surpass EU ideals over the next few decades. That’d learn em.

Educayshun overhaul.
Clearly a desperate situation right now, the poorly educated leading the way makes no sense.