instead of fringe ones

Does “fringe” now mean 44% of the public?

“44% believe that Reeves is doing a bad job as Chancellor. This is identical to the percentage that thought former Chancellor Jeremy Hunt was doing a bad job at the last budget in March 2024.”

So much in common.

https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/labour-and-starmer-approval-ratings-continue-drop-government-nears-100-days-power

happy with middle of the road policies

You know the problem with being in the middle of the road don’t you? Yup, it’s not a very safe place to be.

Tory politician’s wife jailed for race hate post

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp3wkzgpjxvo

That’s a hefty sentence.

I’m lovin how judging by their name the prosecution doesn’t sound very Anglo-Saxon, that must have added to her pain.

Ministers complain to Starmer over spending cuts

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0r8e421y5po

There has been considerable Cabinet disquiet about the spending cuts required to meet the Treasury’s proposed spending limit.

Danny Shaw, a commentator on justice and policing affairs, who has previously advised the Home Secretary Yvette Cooper, said cuts of that order would be “devastating” for the justice department.

“It would completely destroy in many ways the criminal justice system in terms of the courts, probation, prisons and legal aid,” he said.

I believe that the standard centrist response to that sort of criticism is…….”Would you rather have a Tory government?”

26 but it includes about 4 or so gilets/waterproof jackets that never get worn. Most of the rest get worn at some point in the year.

Maybe that’s one of the reasons we don’t do MMT?

We do. Despite it’s name mmt is not simply a theory, it describes how money works in an economy with its own fiat currency.

A black hole walks into a bar and orders a drink.

The bartender asks if it would like food with that.

The black hole says, “No thanks, I’m a light eater.”

Yes I know, I don’t understand the gravity of the situation.

https://archive.li/2024.10.16-161908/https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-10-16/ty-article/.premium/netanyahus-likud-party-issues-invitation-to-event-titled-preparing-to-settle-gaza/00000192-95b6-d9c2-a7f3-9db676f40000

Social Equality Minister May Golan, along with MKs Tally Gotliv, Osher Shkalim and Hanoch Milwidsky, confirmed to Haaretz that they will attend the event. The invitation also mentions that six other Likud MKs are expected to participate.

The Nachala movement stated that “the event is not just a theoretical conference, but a practical exercise and preparation for renewed settlement in Gaza.” The movement added that “the return to settlement in Gaza is no longer just an idea but a process that is already in advanced stages, with government and public support.”

According to the movement’s announcement, ministers Itamar Ben-Gvir, Bezalel Smotrich, Amichai Eliyahu, and Yitzhak Wasserlauf are also expected to attend the event.

Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention :

“The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.”

The proposition is a straightforward war crime.

Former minister says government should ‘stop wringing its hands’ over Gaza

https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/former-tory-minister-says-government-should-stop-wringing-its-hands-over-gaza-conflict/

Kit Malthouse told MPs: “Even if you care little for the tens of thousands of dead Arabs, and the millions displaced. Even if you couldn’t give a damn for the children shot in the head, or the burning hospital inmates in northern Gaza, if your only concern is the security of Israel, can the minister see any argument to say that yet another massacre of Gazans will enhance that security in the future?

What astonishing words from a Tory MP, and published in the Jewish News no less. As Netanyahu’s contempt for global  opinion grows it would appear that an increasing number of people are starting to realise the huge and lasting damage he is doing to Israel.

US suggests military aid to Israel is at risk in letter demanding more aid for Gaza

https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/15/politics/us-israel-gaza-humanitarian-situation-letter/index.html

The US’ list of demands is extensive. Israel must allow at least 350 trucks a day to enter Gaza through all four major crossings, the letter says, in addition to opening a fifth crossing.

“We are particularly concerned that recent actions by the Israeli government – including halting commercial imports, denying or impeding nearly 90 percent of humanitarian movements between northern and southern Gaza in September”.

Israel seems to be suggesting that the United States government are lying:

Just one day after the letter was sent, COGAT, the Israeli agency that manages policy for the Palestinian territories and the flow of aid into the strip, tweeted photos of aid going into Gaza.

“30 trucks entered northern Gaza through the Erez Crossing earlier today. Israel is not preventing the entry of humanitarian aid, with an emphasis on food, into Gaza,” 

Although the US demands appear to be emphatic the 30 days given to Israel to comply suggests that it is connected to the presidential election – Israel repeatedly ignoring Biden isn’t doing the Democrats any favours.

Why on earth would Israel need 30 days to stop denying and impending humanitarian movement? Which is what the US government is claiming that it is doing.

The current disproportionate Israeli response

Yes that’s the one I’m talking about.

Maybe ‘expanding the war to directly confront Hezbollah on its home territory’ would be a better description.

Good luck with all that.

Is that aimed at Netanyahu? If so I think I’ll back the sentiments behind that.

As Gen Brik points out the IDF hasn’t even defeated Hamas after a year of trying, expanding the war to directly involve Hezbollah is as much to distract attention away from this failure as it is to draw greater support from the US. But Israel will not defeat Hezbollah. And Iran is simply not going to be invaded because Israel has no realistic chance of defeating it.

By it’s reckoning an airforce of 100 Sopwith Camels would be the same strength as one with 100 F22’s.

Well the website goes into a bit more detail than that but let’s for arguments sake accept that it doesn’t provide an accurate comparison, what would you provide as an explanation for the reasons that the United States has never launched military operations against Iran?

When you consider all the excuses and lies used to justify war against Iraq could have easily been replicated to justify an attack on Iran. Iraq never posed any sort of serious threat to US interests in the Middle East, but Iran certainly does. There must surely be a reason that United States seems less than keen of a war with Iran.

Did you read the article in the Haatetz by General Brik and what he sees as the folly of going to war with Iran?

Here is another article by Gen Brik in the Haatetz in which he argues that it isn’t Hamas that is collapsing but Israel. As the former military ombudsman for Israel I think it is fair to assume that he has a reasonable grasp on Israel’s military capabilities.

https://archive.li/2024.09.02-222907/https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024-09-03/ty-article-opinion/.premium/it-is-not-hamas-that-is-collapsing-but-israel/00000191-b3bf-dffe-abf9-bfffd0a50000

Not too long from now we will also be unable to carry out those repeated raids, because with every passing day the Israel Defense Forces grows weaker and the number of dead and wounded in action among our soldiers rises. Hamas, in contrast, has already replenished its ranks with 17- and 18-year-olds.

Gaza has a population of approximately 2 million, Iran has a population of nearly 90 million.

An interesting article by Israel’s former military ombudsman, a man who probably understands Israel’s military capability more than most people

https://archive.li/2024.10.08-002959/https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024-10-08/ty-article-opinion/.premium/why-israel-cannot-hit-irans-nuclear-sites-without-sparking-all-out-war-in-the-middle-east/00000192-685f-da14-a1be-fb7f16020000

They never think for a moment about the day after. They are disconnected from reality and exercise no judgment. And they are propelled by a tailwind from many people who don’t understand the situation evolving around them.

ahahah Ernies link is laughable,

Because it doesn’t fit into the preferred narrative that Iran is a weak third world country? There is a reason why the United States and its allies have never attacked Iran, that link helps to explain it.

The neo-con Project for the New American Century during the George W Bush administration era had a clear goal for “full spectrum” global dominance. It started small by attacking and invading Afghanistan, one of the poorest and weakest country in the world. It then moved on to Iraq, a country weakened and on its knees after years of crippling sanctions.

Next on the list was Syria but by then Iraq had gone tits up so rather than Western boots on the ground civil war was fermented leading to a stalemate. Then eventually Afghanistan was lost and by then Project for the New American Century with its goal of full spectrum global dominance had also collapsed. But the ultimate prize was also going to have been Iran.

What the US and other Western countries actually did was to make Iran even more influential in the Middle East than it had previously been – the direct result of the Western strategy of ‘kill first, think later’. All the most advanced technology in the world (which helps Israel win short wars) cannot win a war against insurgency. A lesson which the West learnt in Afghanistan and Iraq, and Israel is learning today in Gaza. Trying to ignore that fact and going for bigger stakes, such as taking on a huge and powerful country like Iran, smacks of the desperation of a gambler who has lost everything and doesn’t know when to give up.

f* skinny balding speccy short arse c* you look like a…

were unfortunately true at the time.

So what’s the mystery?

Iran is the problem, and perhaps the Israelis should do something about it. I’m not convinced the rest of the Arab world would be too upset if they did.

Iran isn’t an Arab nation and secondly it is much more powerful militarily than most people probably realise.

This website ranks Iran as the 14th most powerful nation on earth (out of 145) and Israel the 17th most powerful.

The only significant advantage Israel has over Iran is in airpower, in most other aspects Iran has a significant advantage over Israel.

https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.php?country1=iran&country2=israel

The big disadvantage that Israel has is that it is geared to fight quick short wars, in contrast Iran can sustain a long protracted war.

It would be madness for Israel to launch a full-scale war against Iran. And Iran certainly has no interest in engaging Israel directly, it doesn’t need to.

Every bit of red tape for one person is someone else’s protection against fraud, rights abuses, environmental damage, the list is endless. Just seems to be a clarion cry of any Government – “we’ll cut red tape!” and “bonfire of the quangos!”

You mean like this?

The Grenfell protesters are right. Red tape saves lives

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/18/red-tape-political-grenfell-fire-telegraph

Just seems to be a clarion cry of any Government

I thought it was just the clarion cry of right-wing governments.

The first opinion poll since March 2022 which hasn’t given Labour a lead over the Tories:

https://twitter.com/LukeTryl/status/1845359983107486155

A lot can happen over the next five years but at the present a Tory-Reform coalition government in 2029 is a distinct possibility.

But does she condemn Hamas?

Well I have just heard her speak and no she did not condemn Hamas, nor did she condemn the IDF/Israel. She spoke of her experiences as a doctor in Gaza and the desperate humanitarian/medical situation there.

She said that what touched her most was the dedication of Palestinian medical staff who had leave their families behind to deal with the appalling medical crisis. She said that every single medical staff she met had lost loved ones themselves…… partner, child, parent, or sibling.

She did end by condemning the British government for not speaking out against the horrors being committed in Gaza.

It seems that he died after suddenly becoming ill whilst making a speech in North Macedonia. 69 is too young.

Dr Victoria Rose is a Consultant Plastic Surgeon from King’s College Hospital who has worked for Medical Aid for Palestine in Gaza during the latest Israeli onslaught. She will be one of the main speakers tomorrow evening at 6pm at a vigil for Gaza outside Crystal Palace Park opposite the Westow House Pub.

Oh no, Israel admitted straight away that they were responsible. The excuse they give is basically the same one as they give when they hit hospitals, UN shelters, schools, etc,…… terrorists were in the location and these terrorists were deliberately using the hospital, schools, and in this case a UN peacekeeping compound, as shields.

You think I’m kidding don’t you?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-says-two-un-peacekeepers-hurt-when-soldiers-fired-at-immediate-threat-to-troops/

“The Israeli military expressed “deep concern” and said two peacekeepers had been injured by Israeli fire as it was engaging Hezbollah. It said they had been warned hours earlier to take shelter.”

I am sure they are really really sorry. Just like they are really really sorry when they strike a hospital or an UN school and kill dozens of children.

UN don’t appear to have backed up the IDF’s claims that Hezbollah fighters were 50 metres away from UN peacekeepers and that they had opened fire, but then according to Netanyahu and his far-right government the UN is anti-semitic so presumably that is the reason why.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/oct/11/middle-east-crisis-live-eu-israel-iran-lebanon-blog-news-updates-hezbollah-hamas-unifil

15.40 EDT

Biden ‘absolutely’ asking Israel to stop firing at UN peacekeepers

Joe Biden said he is asking Israel to stop firing at UN peacekeepers in Lebanon, after two incidents in which Blue Helmets were wounded by Israeli forces.

Asked by a reporter at the White House if he was asking Israel to stop, the US president replied on Friday:

Absolutely, positively

“Joe Biden said he is asking Israel to stop firing at UN peacekeepers in Lebanon, after two incidents in which Blue Helmets were wounded by Israeli forces.”

I wonder if Biden has considered the option of telling the Israelis to stop shooting at UN peacekeepers rather than just asking them to stop?

After all shooting at UN peacekeepers is a violation of international humanitarian law, so maybe a stronger stance might be appropriate?

Wasps are always up for a ruck when they have had too much alcohol   :

JG Pest Control – Drunken Wasps In Late Summer

However, the issue isn’t that the wasps are getting drunk. The worrying problem is that drunk wasps are more liable to attack humans. Throughout the summer wasps will happily eat flies and caterpillars as their natural food source. But, as the summer months continue, this food source begins to dwindle. Wasps then eat the windfall apples, and this is where the drunk wasp invasion problems begin.

Last Sunday :

IDF chief says Hamas is ‘defeated’ as Israel turns focus to Hezbollah after year of war in Gaza

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/idf-chief-says-hamas-is-defeated-as-israel-turns-focus-to-hezbollah-after-year-o/

Yesterday :

‘Catastrophic situation’ at children’s hospital as Israel renews Gaza attacks

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/10/catastrophic-situation-childrens-hospital-israel-renews-gaza-attacks

Dr Husam Abu Safiyeh, the director of Kamal Adwan hospital in Beit Lahiya, said it had not been possible to comply with an Israeli army order to evacuate all patients within 24 hours.

The Israeli military said the latest raid was intended to stop Hamas fighters staging further attacks from Jabaliya and to prevent them from regrouping.

“You have to watch this immensely revealing and horrifying testimony by Jewish-American humanitarian surgeon Mark Perlmutter who spent 2 weeks in Gaza”

https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1815494340635963690

Israeli forces fire on UN peacekeepers in Lebanon

https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/10/1155551

“UNIFIL’s Naqoura headquarters and nearby positions have been repeatedly hit,” the UN mission said in a statement. “This morning, two peacekeepers were injured after an IDF Merkava tank fired its weapon toward an observation tower at UNIFIL’s headquarters in Naqoura, directly hitting it and causing them to fall.

14:34

UN accuses Israel of trying to ‘destroy’ Gaza healthcare

https://www.rte.ie/news/middle-east/2024/1010/1474643-middle-east-blog/

Investigators from the United Nations have said Israel is deliberately targeting health facilities and killing and torturing medical personnel in Gaza, accusing the country of “crimes against humanity”.

“Israel has perpetrated a concerted policy to destroy Gaza’s healthcare system as part of a broader assault on Gaza,” the United Nations Independent International Commission of Inquiry said in a statement this afternoon.

Interesting article imo :

https://archive.li/2024.10.10-110328/https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk-politics/2024/10/why-labour-shouldnt-rejoice-at-badenoch-vs-jenrick

If there is one thing that the last year has taught us is that Hamas using children as human shields would be totally ineffective, the IDF has no respect for the lives of Palestinian children.

I fact there is documented evidence that the IDF use Palestinian children themselves as human shields.

I asked the question about vat on school fees on a Muslim dominated local WhatsApp group, and the reply I got was that it was down to support for islamic schools and nothing else. Although I couldn’t find anyone who thought voting against vat on fees was a good idea.

If Iran are days away from making a bomb, why don’t they just make it but keep it secret? It’s not like they have to declare “we are now a nuclear nation”

I think it would require detonating a nuclear device which can’t really be kept secret.

Also all countries which possess nuclear weapons (with the exception of Israel) advertise that fact very loudly, because that is precisely how the deterrent aspect of nuclear weapons works, it has zero deterrent value if your potential enemies don’t know you have it.

Also, please stop painting anyone who disagrees as Israel/Zionist supporters.

Of course not. Me and DrJ have strongly disagreed on this thread but it would be daft to accuse him of being an Israel/zionist supporter.

I call people who support Israel and zionism Israel/zionist supporters, people like yourself. I am not sure what the purpose of you suggesting that you don’t support Israel and zionism is, you obviously do. Even if you don’t support everything about the current government.

Anyway let’s stick to the issue of Palestine.

But this is you still trying to dominate and direct the conversation. You’ll either ignore or accuse others of diverting the thread away from the very specific things that you want to discuss if they dare say things or link to articles that don’t align with your own views and opinions. Then insist that we all comment on the things that you do bring to the discussion and complain and accuse everyone of being a Zionist shill if we don’t.

What on earth has that ^^ got to do with Gaza? And you are accusing me of diverting the thread, seriously?

Here’s that article again btw

Today, our hearts are breaking for the children of Gaza. Tomorrow, we must give them peace | Gordon Brown https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/oct/08/hearts-breaking-children-gaza-tomorrow-peace?CMP=share_btn_url

That’s all that you and DrJ want to focus on and you use it to try to close differences in opinion down

You do realise that it you who is constantly challenging me and DrJ, not the other way round, don’t you? Everything you post on this thread appears to be a challenge, nothing seems to be anything other than a reaction.

I constantly post stuff which is totally unconnected to any previous comments by anyone, for example the Gordon Brown article about Gaza in the Guardian, how about commenting on that? It is clear that Gordon Brown made an effort and did a lot of research for that article, and it’s about “Gaza”, the subject matter of this thread.

I agree that there is an attempt to shut down the debate but it clearly isn’t me and DrJ who are responsible for that.

Constantly focusing on a single issue, Gaza

Mark started this thread to discuss Gaza, any deviation is classed as “deflection” by Israel’s supporters on this thread, focusing on Gaza is now dismissed as not practical. I think we can safely say that some people would much rather no discussion at all took place.

I’m afraid that’s wrong. Four of the five in the “Independent Alliance” voted with the Tories. The ones I named

Fairy nuff, I didn’t see your post, my comment was based on what I thought I read in the Independent. I’ll dig it out later and read it again.   : thumb:

It was just two independents, Iqbal Mohamed and Ayoub Khan, who voted against the vat on school fees, the “alliance”  of independents didn’t as a group vote against the measure.

I don’t know why they voted against it but I am ‘guessing’ that it was because they felt it would affect private islamic schools, I think there is more than one in Iqbal Mohamed’s constituency.

And no, they are probably not very left-wing. I don’t think that Iqbal Mohamed was previously involved in politics and until this year I believe Ayoub Khan was a member of the Liberal Democrats – I don’t why he left as the LibDem stance on Gaza is actually quite good, imo.

An Israeli Attack on Iran’s Nuclear Sites Would Push Tehran to Build a Bomb

https://archive.li/2024.10.09-161739/https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024-10-09/ty-article-opinion/.premium/an-israeli-attack-on-irans-nuclear-sites-would-push-tehran-to-build-a-bomb/00000192-7183-d2b4-afbe-ff9b439b0000

An interesting article well worth reading imo, I certainly had no idea about claims such as this:

Iran is still hesitating – for political and possibly also for religious reasons – about producing a bomb and becoming a nuclear power for all intents and purposes. Iran is not a nuclear state because it hasn’t yet firmly decided whether it’s in its interest to become one. If it was determined to become a full nuclear state, it would have reached this goal long ago, yet it still prefers to remain a nuclear threshold state.

Edit: And particularly this :

Iran is only a step away from the bomb – weeks or even days until it can explode a nuclear device.

Days?

So yesterday the Guardian published an article by former Labour leader Gordon Brown in which he claims that nearly one million children in Gaza have been displaced, and that there is one toilet per 850 people.

Gordon Brown goes on to claim that 85% of parents report that their children have gone at least one whole day without food and that at least 50,000 children are suffering from acute malnutrition.

He then goes on to say that more than 4O% of families in Gaza have been caring for children who are not their own. 20,000 children have been orphaned. And 60% of children in some camps have developed stammering and other communication issues.

I post a link to Gordon Brown’s article and what he suggests should be done but those who otherwise have so much to say suddenly have nothing to say. Other than accuse me of “deflection”…….. the thread is about Gaza, the clue is in the title that Mark gave it.

And then squirrelking turns up and talks about “repeatedly slamming your dick in a drawer”, and makes an oh so funny “master baiter” comment, that’s his contribution. Not stw at its finest.