Just on a linguistic point that some you may have missed. "Most" is not always used as a superlative but also a qualifier. In the case of the police quote I read "the most" to mean "particulary", "especially" or "very". You lot are the most pleasing bunch to debate with. ;)

I think War Crimes are probably the most despicable.

I agree, that's why I said "humble citizens". As a humble citizen the easiest way to join the ranks of those who have commited a dispicable crime is to drink drive. I don't know anyone that has murdred anyone in the classic sense, but I do know someone that killed someone with a car after drinking and came in just under the limit.

You are anti-bike cookea and it's clear in your reasoning and false assumptions. You have taken on board the worst Daily Mail anti-bike rants.

The whole point of this thread is that British cyclists are more at risk than their european neighbours, even in countries where there are no more dedicated cycle paths and the cyclists are less disciplined than in the UK. The UK problem is the British motorist and has nothing to do with poor cycling standards.

Drink driving is a voluntary act that deserves the crime label unlike many of those other road deaths. Don't forget that the 500 you quote are the deaths over the limit. I dispute your 500 figure; alcohol has effects well below the limit that contribute to road traffic collisions but those events don't join the statistics.

Drink driving deaths are volontary breaking of the law and murder and dispicable crime. Many road traffic collisions are involuntary. For example people don't voluntarily have a heart attack and crash into oncoming traffic and can't be accused of murder.

I agree, I'd have drink driving quite a way down my list of the most despicable crimes.

It does however result in more death, serious injury and misery than all the other despicable crimes humble citizens commit put together.

Clean up the hole in the pads with a small round file.

I'm a bit of tippler but very direct. Old friends think I'm a chameleon that lives in a cave wall that had a hard start. Suzanne thinks I'm a black heart bastion and shouts "off with his head" as I'm dragged to the guillotine direct.

My favourite British routes. I couldn't climb them anymore though I might just get up Suzanne.

TUI are German of course and their business is no longer welcome in some resorts though they would no doubt advance some other reason for having pulled out.

My son is up on a glacier with an ESF coach as I speak Shandy. The guy is young, talented (top ten in the world), polite, friendly, and an excellent role model for my son. You'll forgive me for objecting to unfair generalities about the ESF

If anyone recognises me after my last comment I'd appreciate you keeping my surname under your hat. Ta.

Grumm you will only get that level of arrogance with the ESF. I used to process anywhere up to 3000 sets of lessons a week and they had by far the worst record for customer service and refunds.

Ask many French providers why they will no longer work with British tour operators and you'll get similar comments Shandy. It works both ways and there are too sides to every story. If you have an abusive level of late cancellations and aggression the provider will stop refunding in the hope you take your business elsewhare leavings slots for good business rather than bad business. This applies to room reservations, instruction, transport – the whole chain.

Shimano HG. It only works on chains with a pin or magic link though as you can't loosen links with it.

A sad and interesting tale with a happy ending for your friend grumm. In any profession there are some that are better than others and invariably some that you wonder how they survive. Creating a stink to get what you want is a national passtime. ;)

The ESF knows whom the best instructors are and dishes out the work to them in priority. In busy periods there simply aren't enough to go around and anyone with the qualification who is available gets pressed into use. It's then that you get the bods that have a normal job and use their paid holiday to instruct at Christmas or in the February holidays to earn a bit of extra cash. Among those are the ones that are 20 years out of date. It's pretty much the same in every country AFAIK.

Being a great boarder does not make you great instructor.

Nope, it's the rigorous pedagogical content in the training that does that. Check out the respective training manuals and sytems for instructos from different countries.

The French system of instruciton is very structured and methodical which is a reflection of the education system. If you're patient and don't want to end up in hospital it's a good system. I've met Brits that have moaned about the ESF and I felt it was because that wanted someone to teach them to run before they could walk. I have nothing bad to say about American boarding BTW.

There's an element of build, base fitness and natural ability in it though. Some kids can fly up 6a French in trainers after only a few sessions.

Avoid the ESF like the plague, some of the stuff they teach is about 20 years out of date – look for UK/N America/NZ/Oz qualified instructors if possible.

The ESF regroups self-employed instructors that have reached a higher minimum standard in competition and undergone more rigorous training than anywhere else in the world. If you want to you can board with some of the best boarders anywhere, even olympic gold medalists from the last two games – hardly 20 years out of date. Just make it very clear what you are capable of and what you want to do, and the ESF will find you somebody – obviously boarding with olympic champions costs a little more than a beginners group class.

Don't forget that if you want to do something properly out-there-man (sic) you'll need a mountain guide rather than an instructor, if you feel the need for anyone at all of course, suicide is legal in France.

10 minutes in the car to get there

Tsk Tsk, you could bike there in 20 and jog in 30. Be a good warm up too.

Width is just as important as length especially is you have a fairly symmetrical stance and big feet. Don't want your toes and heels dragging do you.

Things weren't going well earlier this year for reservations in Spain hence the bad blood between legal Freeride and the undeclared rivals. Money was clearly in short supply.

Take the "safe" end of the UK grade grade for comparisons. If you're strong enough to get up a really bold E6 6c which means something like a gritsone arête with almost no holds and a high barn door potential then you'd probably manage a French 8a or an English E5 7a which is safe and doesn't require you to have as much in hand.

Probably rotting in a spanish jail awaiting trial for the murder of Ian Halliwell of Toro Loco. :wink: :wink: :-)

Only joking guys, honestly, don't hit me, don't ban me, please nooooooo aieee!

Just too confuse you there are two grading systems in France: bloc (boulder)and falaise (crag). The bloc grades are very similar to British technical grades and some places are notoriously hard graded, Fontainebeau for example. I've usually found about a grade difference between French falaise and British technical on short routes. Spanish grades are supposed to the same as French but again expect some surprises.

The train use demonstrates you're doing what you can rightplace. I don't expect anyone to be perfect, just coherent.

12. Avoiding air travel.

I don't fly, frightened see. 9.5/12

Of course you don't have to be carbon neutral to speak up but speaking up whilst doing nothing is plain hypocritical, especially if you have the finance to do something but use the money to pollute instead. For each believer to make decisions he/she feels comfortable with. I know shopping in Lidl is bad and driving to a ski resort worse (car sharing) but I still do them. However, my life style has not suffered in the least by reducing what my home consumes to next to nothing.

I wouldn't give everything on the list the same weight either, there's nothing rigorous about it. They are just examples of what people who take the problem seriously can do. Thanks to all who are giving their scores.

If you travelled to all the following events by car to take pictures how do you reconcile your profession with your views on CO2 emissions rightplace? I know we all have to earn a living and I don't suggest people live as hermits but that's a lot of travel. What car do you use? Could you use a more economical car? I use approximately 500 litres of vehicle fuel a year of which none is professional use so, it's my part of the squander.

# 20 Sept – Merida MTB Marathon – Ruthin – THE PICTURES
# 19 Sept – GORE BIKEWEAR Sportif – Ruthin – THE PICTURES
# 12-13 September – Cheddar Bikefest – Cheddar – THE PICTURES
# 6 Sept – The Beast – Corfe Castle – THE PICTURES
# 15-22 August – MTB TransWales – Builth Wells etc. – THE PICTURES
# 2 August – Merida MTB Marathon – Selkirk – THE PICTURES
# 1 August – GORE BIKEWEAR Sportif – Selkirk – THE PICTURES
# 5 July – Merida MTB Marathon – Llanwrtyd Wells – THE PICTURES
# 4 July – GORE BIKEWEAR Sportif – Llanwrtyd Wells – THE PICTURES
# 14 June – Marin Rough Ride – Kington – THE PICTURES
# 13 June – Kona Mashup – Glyncorrwg – THE PICTURES
# 6-7 June – The LAMM – Scotland – THE PICTURES
# 7 June – Poole Festival of Running – Poole – THE PICTURES
# 17 May – Merida MTB Marathon – Crickhowel – THE PICTURES
# 3 May – Dyfi Enduro – Machynlleth – THE PICTURES
# 18-19 April – Highlander Mountain Marathon – Scotland – THE PICTURES
# 12 April – Merida MTB Marathon – Builth Wells – THE PICTURES
# 11 April – Exposure Lights Big Night Out – Builth Wells – THE PICTURES
# 17-18 Jan – Strathpuffer – Strathpeffer – THE PICTURES

Among those of you that do think CO2 emissions are responible for changes in cliamte that will adversly affect humanity how many have you have done anything significant such as:

1.Choosing to live near your work and the services you use.
2.Using public transport, a bike or your feet to get to work.
3.Investing in insulating your house and heating system to the point your heating consumption is below 3000 kWh/year.
4.Having a solar hot water heater or heat pump.
5.Producing enough electricity to have a negative electricity bill.
6.Changing your eating habits in favour of local produce.
7.Using the train for long distance continental travel.
8.Reducing your general level of consumption of goods and services.
9.Deciding to limit your family size if you still have the choice.
10. Composting your bio waste.
11. collecting rain water for toilet flushing and garden use

Score yourselves out of the number of points that apply to you giving half marks if for example you do more long distance miles by train than car but still own a car. I'm at 8.5/11

The first step is understanding the issues, the second actually doing something. A flash new car often takes priority over a heat pump or solar panels.

Apology accepted Billy.

You'll note I haven't refered to the Afghan situation that I regard as misguided rather than illegal. I still can't offer support to your brother for being there but I sincerely hope that he gets out alive. I've worked with British troops and I'm confident he does know the difference between right or wrong. I'll support him 100% if ever he is court martialled for refusing to obey orders rather than do something wrong.

Languages aren't just about the language, they are also about learning about other cultures. British attitudes to languages are part of a more general xenophobia and feeling of language superioriy that in fact handicap Britons and British enterprise. "Everybody else learns English so what's the point" misses the point.

What has masturbation got do do with this subject Billy? You are of course correct, I do, as do most men of healthy body and sound mind.

"Changed their minds" was a compliment. There's even a saying:

Il n'y a que des imbéciles qui ne changent pas d'avis. Only fools don't change their mind.

I agree with much of what you say ernie_lynch, I wasn't the only one to opose the war on STW and not the only one flamed. Why "elite minority" and not just minority? Two post above suggest there are still those who will support British troops whatever atrocities they are ordered to commit – Billyboulders and Mathewjb.

Anybody else watch the news? A soldier that was ordered to murder about 27 000 people did just that. He's now being wheeled into court to answer for his crime. Should he have our support? Should British troops have had your support for killing 100 000* Iraqui civilians?

* I'll accept any number here you think plausible.

The troops never were fighting for you, they were fighting for Blair and Bush. You were duped. It was spin, ploy to discredit anti-war protest and you all fell for it. You should have been out on the streets and blocking the gates of the army bases.

If you'd really been backing the troops you'd have protested against them being sent to be killed in an illegal war, George Bush and Cherry Blair's personal crusade.

For nearly a hundred years British troops had fought on the side of right and good and in defence. Blair changed that. The troops shouldn't have had our support to fight an aggressive, unwinable, unjust action.

So how do you stop the next generation getting duped into fighting the next religious war? Teach them about religion including its ills and the conflict it generates. But teach it critically from a historical and social perspective rather than as a Sunday school presentation.

Being serious:

Le savoir être. The ability to produce actions and reactions that allow harmonious social interaction.

So the consensu is that we should drop anything that might help children to grow up to be caring members of society with a sense of community and history and turn out hard-nosed, money obsessed fodder for the capitalist machine?

How times have changed on STW. Where have all the must-support-our-troops, Saddam-is-a-threat-that-must-be-removed posters from the gulf war days gone?

When I quoted Hans Blix the day before Blair and Bush went to war "we have had access to all the sites we have asked to see and foung nothing" I got flamed.

When I quoted Dominique de Villepin at the ONU I got flamed too.

Wherever all those posters have gone it's nice to see they've gone or at least wised up and changed their minds.

Sitting down, shutting up and doing what one is told.

Once they have leaned to do that (and the awful consequences of not doing it), teaching of other things may commence.

If Shaun Palmer were sitting on that I'd find it real cool.

The colleague was probably a secular science teacher saying 2000BP. Women are always hearing me wrong. "How about an early night" say I with great enthusiasm. "Off you go then, I'll try not to wake you when I come in" she replies.

You've been living with lutherian christians too long oddjob. Now if I'm an edukator and work for the catholic church, where am I on the list?

Having done both I think Juan has a point though I found critical mass somewhat less anti-social than a typical roadie group. In the roadie group the car with the flashing light behind, lack of respect for road rules and refusal to let cars overtake led to far more aggression than I experienced in critical mass.

Massilia, il faut pas exagérer. ;)