derek – you do not have enough detail to know if the level of force was reasonable or not. That is what a trial is for if there is enough evidence to charge him.

Now it might be reasonable, it might not. We simply do not know right now

Not sure I agree with this. What could be considered ‘too much’ force against 4 guys in balaclava’s armed with (at least) 1 knife?

They have it within their means to inflict a bloody, painful and horrific death on you and possibly your family. If this doesn’t constitute a reaosn to use any force at all within your disposal, what on earth does?

Please don’t tar me with the ‘internet warrior/fantasist’ brush as just because I am suggesting that you should be allowed to use
this kind of force within the law under certain extrene circumstances does not mean I think I am capable of it myself, but that doesn’t change my point.

I’m not suggesting that if you use force and they run off you have carte blanche to chase them and inflict violence, but whilst they are in your house if they’re carrying a weapon like a knife it’s an awful lot to ask someone to remain calm, rational and employ logical thinking to resolve the situation under such extreme stress.

Edit- apologies if your post was made before some of the more detailed info appeared in the news etc.

This thread is a bit like reading the Guardian Bike Blog

It really is what you make of it. It’s definitely not for everyone but no matter how much it’s changed you can’t really say there’s anything like it anywhere else in the UK or anywhere really.

The BBC coverage with Fearne Cotton and lord knows else does take the shine of it now somewhat but then the BBC coverage is only showing the smallest, thinnest slice of what goes on and what it’s like.

Some people will go and only watch the big bands at the Pyramid Stage and maybe the Other Stage which is missing the point somewhat imo, whereas others will go, get in the spirit of it, lose themselves for 4 days across the whole site and these will be the people proclaiming it as a life-changing experience I suspect.

As someone else has said, when I see it on the TV always feel a pang of regret that I’m not there but then it’s easy to forget the painful bits :lol:

burglary = bad , killing = bad, two wrongs dont make a right.

Yes, but at the actual time of someone breaking and entering your house how you could possibly know that it is ‘only’ a burglary?!

I agree things like rape/beatings/torture are extremely unlikely but I doubt that’s much comfort at the time to somebody faced with masked intruders in the middle of the night, so you could hardly blame someone for lashing out.

If you could see into the future and know that some dudes in your house were definitely only going to rob your TV and stuff and then walk out, it would all be fine, no?

Surely the crux of the matter is that you would have no idea what is going on and would be shitting yourself. Of course you could plot the best, calmest and most logical course of action if you had a crystal ball.

I would shit myself if someone broke into my house in the middle of the night but I think if you break and enter someone elses property than you sign away all and every one of your rights…ergo if you get killed than that’s tough shit. If you’re big enough to try and pull stuff like that than you should be big enough to face the consequences.

The crux of the matter for me is that you have no idea of somebody’s intention when they arrive. Sure, it is harsh if some guy gets shot dead for trying to nick a laptop in somebody else’s living room. But if you wake up in the middle of the night with strangers in balaclava’s in your house and you comply with them to avoid violence…what if they then rape your wife? Beat your kids?

I have a lot of sympathy for people who find themselves on a charge for defending themselves in this situation. It’s easy to analyse reasonable force sat at a computer or in a courtroom after the event but it must be terrifying at the time not knowing what is going to happen.

The moral of the story is don’t break into people’s homes and you don’t risk getting pounded on. I can think of few reasons why you would find yourselves in a strangers house in the middle of the night by accident.

I have always found the horseriders around where I normally ride to be sound. They’re much more chatty and polite than a lot of the walkers I meet.

It can be a pain if you get stuck behind them but well, that’s life, the bridleways are there for everyone.

I don’t think they’re that different to us tbf- a few times I have come around a corner to see a horserider going full pelt and then they’ve had to stop pretty sharpish with a sheepish look on their face- fine by me, I know the feeling.

I was once told that horses and dogs etc often don’t like bikes as they don’t realise you’re people when you are on a bike, you look alien to them. If you talk, they will realise and it can calm them, so it is good to talk when you are passing horses. Sounded plausible.

I just got one of these for a tenner. Won’t suit everyone but is handy for taking stuff to work for the day and whatnot.

http://thevintagebin.com/Vintage-Canvas-Medic-Bag-Khaki-with/M/B000BFJE7Y.htm

At the moments it’s a “choose your rut, close your eyes, stay off the brakes and hope

Sounds perfect

Excellent, cheers Sambob!

I think I’ve actually been down there a few times but I’ve always took a right where it forks by the stone wall halfway down and then gone across the stream and through the fields back to Peep O’Day.

Will give the path to the left a go next time, looks pretty good 8)

Top video, looks ace despite the weather.

Which one is that last trail, from about 3min 30secs onwards? If anyone could point me in the general direction I would be grateful.

I’m only just starting to explore the Peak District, I recognised Middle Moor but not much else, though everything always seems to look different on video anyway to me.

Edit- on the Peaks June video, I meant.

Seconded above- train from piccadilly to Marple is 25mins from platform 1. From Marple you can access lots of places in the Peaks.

Train to New Mills is 30mins and you can easily go along the Sett Valley Trail from New Mills (few kms) and do lots of different Hayfield rides.

I don’t think there is any Trail Centre that is accessible via train from Manchester. Well not very easily anyway.

8O

I still think the Grizzly would win though. Gorilla’s seem too thoughtful.

Best to assume it’s good for you I think!

I think in media/advertising land it is assumed only men have a mid-life crisis

Out round Hayfield, saw a couple of others.

The wind though 8O :x

Was like a gale up on top of the hills, hard work.

Train to New Mills and then Hayfield, Mellor, Marple etc and back to my house in Manchester tomorrow hopefully

Some people are just idiots, nothing more to it. I’ve had stuff shouted at me from cars when out running too :roll:

Strangely the only way it bothers me is not that some people think I’m a **** but more that a lot of people seem to think that if you’re out cycling or running than you’re the really smug sort that thinks you’re better than everyone else not doing it.

I really don’t care what other people do and only run or cycle cause I enjoy it, but I supose you can’t stop people making assumptions.

A Dog in a Hat by Joe Parkin…

Seconded, a very good book.

Also The Death of Marco Pantani is very interesting though of course tragic. By Matt Rendell I think.

I love reading books and have found that I enjoy non-fiction now as well which never used to be the case. I’ve avoided buying one of those e-reader/tablet things as I like going to the local second-hand bookshop so much and just seeing what’s down there.

Currently reading The Complete Sherlock Holmes, a book by some guy who worked at Enron and The Big Nowhere by James Ellroy.

I can see why it doesn’t appeal to everyone though, it’s often difficult to find the time and with stuff like Ellroy I find that you need to keep reaidng pretty regular or it’s easy to forget what’s going on and lose the plot (in literary terms)

I like Albert’s Shed, there is one round the corner from me in Didsbury now too which is pretty nice though the service never seems as good as the one in town.

Derek- is Brown’s the one that used to be Athanaeum at the top of King Street? Not been yet but wouldn’t mind having a gander.

Athanaeum was an awful place, totally wasted in that lovely building.

Spent loads of time in there drinking after work mind.

Hard to say without a price range but being as you’re staying at the lowry I’ll assume you don’t mind paying a bit extra.

Stocks is nice Italian food
Rio Ferdinand’s new one at the top of King Street is supposed to be good (Rosso I think it’s called)
Lots of people say that San Carlo’s is good though I think it’s overpriced rubbish.

I’m sure someone will come along with better (non-Italian) reccomendations soon.

Generally if you want to go to to some bars it’s best to head to the Northern Quarter though it does get very busy now. Lammar’s, Socio-Rehab, Cord, Common and Centro are all decent but there’s plenty more nearby. Corridor bar down the road nearer Salford is supposed to be nice too but I’ve not been.

I don’t mind riding on the road at all. After a few hours of bumpy or muddy bridleways and tracks it feels quite nice to be able to really steam along on flat, smooth concrete and put the hammer down.

Having said that I’m still always surprised at how far I can get from my house in Didsbury, round the Peaks and back without hardly ever having to travel on road; and that’s without even really trying- it’s quite easy to link the offroad trails togethor and I’m sure I’m still missing plenty.

Mostly by myself though occasionly with a local club as it can be boring on your tod too much..though I must admit a lot of the time I go out with them I am mentally taking note of all the trails they know, for when I’m back out by myself.

I have a riding buddy who I go out with a lot just the two of us which is cool as he’s a sound guy and I prefer this to big groups, but his fitness has dropped dramatically over the winter to the point he had to abandon half way round last time. I don’t mind waiting for people at the top of hills for a bit but now I think a long ride would take aaaages. I think I’ll try and coax him back out though and see if he can build his fitness up somehow.

My best mate always says he’s gonna buy a bike and come out with me but I know deep-down that the reason he doesn’t is because his missus won’t let him :roll:

I’m newish to all this, but if the guys on the crossers are churning up the paths and thus roughening the smoothed-over ones, surely that’s a good thing for us?

Or are we saying that if it wasn’t for the crossers, the paths wouldn’t be resurfaced in the first place?

Couldn’t think of anything worse than loading your pockets up with stuff when out riding.

This for me too. I just wear and old football training top when I’m out so don’t have jersey pockets or anything. Even if I did I would hate to have bulging pockets stuffed full of crap.

Ditto for strapping it to the bike- I really, really can’t bear the thought of mounting a pump to the frame or even having a saddlebag. It’s clearly just personal preference, I’m sure we all agree that some things at least, are essential. It’s pretty laughable that some seem to think there’s a ‘right’ and a ‘wrong’ way to carry the same stuff.

Simon E- no that’s fine :lol:

I must admit when I got lost I did get a feeling of rising panic slowly developing in my stomach. Not really because I thought I wouldn’t find my way but I needed to ride back to Didsbury before dark and hadn’t even been out (or done any exercise) for 5 weeks before due to injury.

Back home eating tea now though so glad I went out even if it was a bit disasterous- like you say, it’s all a learning experience I guess :D

Just posted in another thread about ice regarding my ride today- was pretty disasterous and I won’t be bothering again until it’s thawed, had numerous off’s today.

Yep, I went down there today! Well played for riding it though, I slipped and slid all the way down clinging to the bushes with one hand and my bike with the other.

Exactly the same thing with almost every other trail I rode (walked/fell) today- got shocked by an electric fence after getting stuck on sheet ice on the bridleway near Church Lane and decided to climb over to the adjoining field.

Also fell off when my bike disappered from underneath me on the canal on the way back. Some guy looked at me on the floor for a full ten seconds and then just said ‘Ice’ and walked off without another word.

Saw those guy’s on scramblers you mentioned too- thought it looked even more dicey for them to be fair, not surprised one had an off.

Don’t bother going out riding when everywhere that isn’t a main road is completely and unequivically covered in sheet ice.

Got lost (tbf this isn’t really to do wth ice)

Negotiated almost every single interesting descent on my arse, crab-like, pulling my bike down behind me.

Fell over numerous times including once off a bridge into a stream.

Got shocked by an electric fence 4 times trying to get over it to avoid slipping over :x

Fell off on the way home along the canal when my bike disappeared from underneath me, in front of some guy who just looked at me on the floor with a very solemn expression on his face for a full 10 seconds then said ‘Ice’ and walked off.

I don’t believe in ghosts and suchlike so I think I’d be fine with it.

As as has already been mentioned, people must die in lots of houses, but most times you wouldn’t know of it.

I agree that in general people should be much more resilient and less wimpy when it comes to getting to work.

I don’t think the 24hr rolling news coverage thing (and the newspapers as well) helps though- if you took what you hear through the media at face value the whole time you’d think that it’s too dangerous to leave your house at times.

not even a total *edit* idiot *edit* of a copper would do that without some sort of reason (I hope).

Wow, you really think that?

The horse riders that frequent the trials where I ride are all noticeably more polite and cheerier than a lot of the ramblers and walkers I meet.

It can be a bit annoying if you get stuck behind them for ages but thems the breaks I guess.

As for passing them, I was told that essentially they don’t realise you’re people if you’re on a bike which is why they (and dogs) seem to get easily spooked by bikes. But if you talk as you go past or near than they realise you’re just a person and this calms them. Sounded plausible.

Do Charles and Camilla really get 24/7 armed protection?

I’m not so sure.

Cosmic Disco