Nicely put, convert. For those of us who were born / have lived / worked in the developing world, and/or work in the utilities, it certainly shapes how you think about water.

Rob's point about the service being notable when it's gone is spot on, and borne out by the research the water industry has been doing over the last 2-3 years, which shows very clearly that while (overall) people are reasonably prepared to pay their current bills and maybe even a small amount more for improvements to service, they would (rightly) expect one helluva compensation to accept any deterioration i.e. water and wastewater services have a very high value.

The 'overall' above needs taking into account though as there is a massive diversity of incomes, social perspectives, household budget priorities etc.

I can confirm the 150g for the Truvativ bar is complete fiction, and it does come in at 250g. Bought it on the off chance that it might be true, really must put it up for sale on the classifieds 😉

I got it as a replacement for the Salsa Pro Moto carbon bar which had got a deep groove worn in it during the course of last year's Kielder 100, I guess some grit had got behind the zip tie 😕 – expensive but a lovely bar, I will get round to replacing it some day.

Zummerzet zunshine is most excellent here 8)

That said, the cow crap does dry very rapidly to a wattle and daub consistency, I'm thinking it could be the new composite frame material 😉

<waves at Rob – Hi!>

This is great – I reckon we should have a little STW water industry ride, raise some money for WaterAid and then have a session down the pub where we can discuss this like it should be done! 😀

Then again I might have a slightly weird take on all of this being one of the few who has worked all 3 sides of the fence 😉 for water companies, Ofwat and consultancies. Industry tart, eh?

uplink makes an interesting point – although when funding of water/sewerage services was in the hands of government the standards of service were at the mercy of political pressures, with all the expediencies that go with that, and (as commented before) much less good than today. Now that the squeeze on the public purse is on, it will be interesting to see how all the intentions of Northern Ireland (currently still sort of public sector) to improve its levels of service to parity with those delivered by water companies in England and Wales (passing Scotland on the way) get modified – because their spending is still controlled directly by government.

Could be that there's a halfway house, Welsh Water runs under a different model from the rest of the privatised water companies, based on 'not for profit'. Leaving aside their actual service performance, and the recent shenanigans with how they've re-insourced (is that a word?!) their contracts, it has the potential to deliver for customers without all the emotional baggage that the word 'private' seems to bring with it.

But yeah, all the pointers are, as rob2 notes, towards more competition being driven by the government. Wup, wup 😐 Someone should point out to the economists that water is a bit heavier than electrons…

big_n_daft: yeah, you're right, Veolia South East (the company formerly known as Folkestone and Dover to us oldies) is the trial company for universal metering having been granted Water Scarcity Status. The Walker Review will no doubt be picked up once the dust has settled post-election. Metering would also be a pre-requisite for, rightly or wrongly, the wider competition advocated by the Cave Review.

Re Ofwat taking out stuff that they regard as too expensive – not really, it's more about the stuff that they don't see as good value or having a decent justification made by the company to make the investments. Cue debate over what a good investment case looks like…

Re the good ol' Yorkshire Water drought sorry water resources situation 😉 in the mid-90s and comparing it to Anglian, UU and Rhodes: YW and UU both have similar reservoir strategies in that they have numerous single season drawdown, fairly small reservoirs, intended to deplete over the course of a summer and fill back up over winter. Anglian has some very large reservoirs.

YW in the 1995 crisis had, as you say, nowt in its reservoirs (in the west) but good aquifer stocks in the flatlands of the east – these are groundwater, much like Rhodes will have. However, sucking the aquifers dry is not a sustainable option, doing long-term damage, and the Environment Agency wouldn't let us (to quote Max Boyce, "I was there") willy-nilly damage these for expedient short-term management reasons. I wonder whether such controls exist in Rhodes and whether in the long run they'll pay for this as their water gets increasingly loaded up with minerals.

Not wanting to sound like an apologist for poor management decisions by water companies but the levels of service provided today, including frequency of hosepipe bans, are way better than pre-privatisation. Whether that can be maintained in the face of climate change is a moot point and something which IMHO the industry collectively really could do with getting its finger out in terms of how it plans investment for uncertain futures.

'Population, Resources, Environment' (Paul Ehrlich) and 'Silent Spring' (Rachel Carson), both read in my late teens – two seminal books on our ability to affect our environment, and which shaped what I did at university and subsequent working life.

Ehrlich and Carson are up there with James Lovelock as heroes of mine – likewise Douglas Adams, whose humorous but and very knowledgeable approach to science showed how to get a message across so that more people could get it. I mean, the Babel Fish as proof of the non-existence of God? Pure class. Not sure my RE teacher appreciated me writing it out in full on the cover of my RE book though… 👿

Funnily enough Chas, I was wondering something similar after that all too brief single pint at The Griffin, and whether arranging a more extensive sampling of the Milk Street Brewery's finest would be limited by having to pootle back to Bruton. I'll have to sort out an off-road route.

Yeah, likewise. Not had a chance to do other than flick through it yet, but looks great (as ever).

Good to hear it's coming together Rob. Looking forward to seeing you nail Set2Rise on it next year 😉

Nope, just having fun. And getting some miles in for the Kielder 100… 😐

Twice (sort of…) when a post-grad stoodent in Manchester.

The first one was when a car pulled across me into a side road. Went across the bonnet. Driver gets out and says "Sorry, I didn't see you in the sun glare". Which as it was a sunny day and he was driving into it was fairly plausible. But he then .ucked it up by saying "I thought you were signalling to go left" 🙄 Soooo… he didn't have an answer on how he saw me signalling if he couldn't see me.

The second (sort of) bike-car interaction was a similar car-turning-right-into-a-side-road across my direction of travel. This time I had time to cut round the back of him (it was a him). Trouble was, he had a car on tow behind him. Result: comedy-ish moment of me spotting the rope as I went flying. 😯 Ho hum.

All character building.

Doing it as a solo 12hr (not Torchbearer) this year, having been part of a 4 team for the last 2 years. It's just a really fun event. I don't so much 'race' as 'participate' 😛

I will be using as much technology as I can in the form of gears and suspension 😉 – SC Superlight seems to be ideal for most things. Even wet last year it was nowhere near the clagfest that Mayhem (nearly) always turns into.

King's Arms @ Monkton Farleigh, excellent food and drink. Also does great accommodation.

Jean-Jacques Burnel.

Yup, as a pair – although my ride partner has done zilch in the way of preparation due to new sprog and heavy workload, so it might be quasi-solo! 😉

Mind you I could do with all the miles I can get with Kielder looming ever closer… 😯

One more here for a prep and public school education, boarding from 10. The educational alternatives in Nigeria and Egypt (where my dad was working in IT) weren't too appealing… I loved it both academically and in sport.

When they did come back to work in the UK my parents gave me the option to go to the local state school but, unsurprisingly, all my mates were at Marlborough so being a selfish mid-teen why would I have opted out to make my parents' lives easier?

Interesting comments above about public school being very organised and subsequently people struggling with life at university. My experience was the opposite, as it was very autonomous at school in how you structured your work so long as you delivered it on time (bit like my current workplace). Having taken a year out and worked on building sites and the like, to me many of the freshers seemed very lost to be out on their own and in some cases (understandably) homesick, while others really didn't seem to understand that being at university really doesn't entitle you to anything other than what you earn.

Our daughter now goes to a small, independent, non-selective school as a day pupil and it has had a dramatic effect on her confidence since, as others have commented, she's surrounded by peers with similar attitudes to being academically successful i.e. being clever doesn't mean you're a geek. She is still trying to shake off that perception from her previous (state primary) schools and she's getting there, it's great to see it happening. She researched all the various schools that she wanted to have a look at and opted for this one, as she was clearly not happy about moving up to the large secondary school in our area which had been high profile in the news about violence.

My in-laws were both teachers in the state system so my wife has taken some flak from her dad for our decision, but neither of us are prepared to sacrifice our daughter's future opportunities on some ideological altar. It's up to us to give her the best set of options we can and (in our opinion) it's what we're doing. We know we're privileged to have that choice open to us.

What poppa and B_Leach said. Like you, I love the Rebas and they're super reliable (still use them on another bike) but the Durin Marathons (100-120) have been a, er, revelation in how stiff they are by comparison.

Nucleation centres, innit.

Love my Superlight. When I first got it I also found a fair few pedal strikes compared to a VT, but after switching to 170mm cranks no worries (or maybe I just adapted to it?).

It does seem to be best suited to 100mm generally but having 120mm when pointing down does allow it a bit more forgiveness to my ineptitude – which is why the Durin Marathons 100-120mm are a great match (having also run it with a Reba 85-115 and Rev 100-130). It think the frame warranty is for a 120 limit.

Perfect bike for TransWales and Kielder last year, shame that can't be said for the rider 😕

'eckaslike – unlikely, as in "Will I 'eckaslike vote Tory"

'appen as mebbe (or just 'appen) – que sera, sera (albeit with a Yorkshire twang 😉 )

As _tom_ above – had used them many times and had prompt service, but I have just had to send them a reminder on what progress has been made for an item which was part of an order for three items placed 2 months ago to the day 😕

One arrived promptly, the other in a fortnight, the other's in limbo it would seem. Ho hum, it's a competitive market.

Ah, ok, that's good to get some better info on that. Guess I should have put a "?" on the end of my "Possibly further south…" sentence! 💡

'Fraid I can't advise on a bike company but can comment on the Sept/Oct time of year in Colorado, as I went out there mid September a few years ago to Crested Butte.

The weather was superb all week, clear blue skies, very warm (not super hot) and bone dry trails (they were in a longstanding drought then). Of an evening it got chuffing cold – autumn at altitude (9,000ft).

However, the day I left to head up to Colorado Springs the snow came down big style. So, you're possibly pushing your luck as to whether the high trails will still be open. Possibly further south (Durango, Telluride) might have a longer summer season.

I found this to be a really useful site when researching going out there, it has trail condition info / web cams / accommodation:-
Crested Butte trails info

The link has some guiding options on it. There's also a good outdoor shop, The Alpineer, which hires (good quality) bikes: it's on that link too.

If you're interested I still have trail maps around somewhere I could dig out (I keep hoping to go back!).

Call me paranoid, but I always take a spare mech hanger.

Mmm, Fruity-Frutti…

Yes, luurvely conditions on the Qs. Just right for a walk down the Chimney 😉

Loved Smith's Combe, and Weacombe was even more fun 2nd time.

Gimme a shout when you're going Chas, I'll come and heckle. I might even have to sort the Traveller's Check out… 😯

Hmmm, and nearer than Red Planet too! Methinks a visit is due…

Planning to go there with a couple of others after taking a short break and doing a couple of days in t'Dales then NY Moors.

I'd heard that there's an open event on the Saturday, but we should be out on the moors then.

Another vote for Placebo's version of la Bush's classic. Also Nerina Pallot's cover of Love Will Tear Us Apart.

Hi Rob2! <waves>

Minor thread hijack – S2R? 😉

The value of water – bit of a live topic in the industry right now. The Mythe floods raised awareness for a service that's seen as a given but is highly appreciated when it's not there.

Interesting to see ooOOoo's view – power vs water (and other trade-offs) in terms of essential services, and other demands on people's wallets, is something we're trying to understand via a lot of customer research.

I grew up in countries where the water (and power, and fuel) supply was intermittent, and when it did come out of the tap it wasn't potable. And that's a whole lot better than having to carry containers of water taken from a river downstream of untreated outfalls.

So perhaps it's no surprise I ended up doing what I do now 💡

Big fan of WaterAid.

Nominative determinism in action! Yeah with a nickname like this (as predicted by my grandad) since 13yrs old what other industry would I end up working in? 😉

Seem to be a disproportionate number of Flood, Tempest, Drinkwater, Bourne etc type names in the water sector. Although I was in a meeting once with 5 Daves out of 7 people, so maybe that's the real anomaly…

TBP – that's not the case. You're on a win-win, as if it turns out that rateable value as the basis for your bill is cheaper for you having trialled a meter, you can revert within 12 months.

Again, the Ofwat link gives the facts and FAQs on this:
meter switching[/url]

It also gives a link to one of many calculators for what your likely metered bill would be if you're considering a switch. Each company provides one as well on their own sites.

I tried putting a hardtail bike into the North American version (they call it a Rogue, I think) while in Canada, and it's very low inside; normally I've no problem just taking the front wheel + seatpost/saddle out and standing it upright in various other cars.

There seems to be a lot of internal padding/panelling that fills the volume rather than giving you space in what looks like a large car from the outside.

The Ofwat site gives the average as well as the metered / unmetered, water / sewerage splits. Also company by company so you can see how it varies across the country.

average bills

The price limits for the next 5 year period (up to 2015) have just been set for all but Bristol Water (currently contesting Ofwat's ruling by appealing to the Competition Commission).

Very fine and purty! And great for that 1 mile commute, eh? 😉

NN 2.1" – but I love changing tyres! 😀

See you there, Chas. I may even be on the singlespeed… 😕

Another vote for the Cross Check / Traveller's Check, really versatile and great fun with 29er tyres 🙂

And you should know, Chas 😉

Number of teeth would be determined generally by the rear mech "capacity" which will be stated somewhere on its spec.

Messin' around on 'cross bikes, great fun. Not sure I've got the balls to go racing 'cross but by all accounts it's a very sociable activity (see Mr Thruman above!).