Also regarding non-sequitirs, I am replying to more than one voice here.

Yes the MHRA guidelines are aligned to those.

In answer to someones post about the two types of brexiteers, for a start I have to work and I also have to sleep.

So what about these EU FTAs then?

What percentage of UK trade is done with Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, Ukraine, Mexico, Chile and Greenland?

TJ- The UK has the MHRA which issues guidance for pharmaceutical manufacturers and distributors, these are the guidelines we use, it is called the orange guide.

Our company also follows FDA guidelines for the US market, other rules for ROW are VICH guidelines in our case.

I’m basing my opinion as that is all it is on the assumption that we will get a deal.

You guys are basing yours on the assumption that there will be no deal.

TJ- Greenland, Mexico, South Africa, Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, Chile and Ukraine? Those FTAs?

According to the EU figures we contribute a net £7.8 billion to the EU and the UK figures suggest £11 billion. That is a tariff folks, it is a net contribution for access to the single market.

Now someone has said we will be out £13 billion for tariffs which leaves a loss of £2 Billion.

Am I to be told that this isn’t a cost we can recoup by changing our trade portfolio to a more R.O.W weighed one?

Doomaniac- UK EU trade accounts for 47% of global trade with a trade deficit of £-73Billion

Shakelton – Here was me thinking that deregulation would actually help SMEs?

Do decisions made in Brussels ever have a negative impact on farmers in the UK and Ireland?

Are farmers going to chuck away hard fought improvements in quality just because the market share for beef has changed from predominately EU to Japan?

Many people on here are quite happy to pay import taxes for fancy goods from Non-EU, many threads about what coffee what wine what this and that.

No, as I said we will have a deal on the EU side.

Yet the other half the economy will carry on as normal trading with non-EU states as normal.

We will have some sort of deal with the EU and I will admit that TJ told me so if we don’t.

We have a strong currency which we can control

A strong economy which we can control

A strong trade deficit with non-EU countries which makes up over half of our economy which we can build on.

Oh and likely a reasonable deal with the EU

There’s my slice of optimism for the echo chamber.

Sorry why? Is there doubt that the EU has continued to expand? Have we voted against this expansion?

one of my reasons for voting remain was that a strong, skeptical UK within the EU (and with a veto) could prevent that.

Unfortunately Cameron wanted to park us firmly within the EU which got a lot of sceptics like myself annoyed. Also that strong veto didn’t halt the expansion of the EU now did it (we didn’t use it)? We now have the great contributors, bulgaria and romania as cheap labour.

Thats the crux of it for me, I only see the EU progressing towards a federal state, one made up of many incompatible countries, this was a chance to step out.

Cougar – I agree we should be stalling due to Covid.

I dont think the EU is devil incarnate, but why get deeper into it only to have to leave at an even more entangled stage?

As a member we had MEPs voting & sitting on committees(just coz Farage rtc never bothered to turn up & represent ULd interests is not EUs fault.
We had commissioners, a seat (& veto) on European Council, we had judges on ECJ etc etc

While having 3 parallel levels of government doing the same things.

Another reason I voted for brexit was that our government was seen as taking EU directive on domestic issues and whether true or not, 4 levels of government (council<local,westminster<EU) seems like a very wasteful higherarchy.

As roverpig was getting at in his comment, I see the only eventual outcome of the EU being a federal state, That would mean a universal currency (euro), central bank and an armed force.

As I said re: “echo chamber”, not every opposite opinion is a troll.

I fear that in an ever increasingly integrated EU,

From the outside, we are just going to watch helplessly and cope with the consequences

the UK as a member becomes what you said while still paying for the pleasure.

The concensus here is that the UK gov. is capable of a deep conspiracy against the population, but of course the EU bloc is incapable of that as it is a shining utopia.

An echo chamber is a place you go to hear your unchallenged views reflected back on you, which this thread does.

Analogies to surgery may sound good in your head but don’t really serve the purpose of debate.

So under that we trade on the same terms as the US?

You folk still haven’t explained why an ever expanding and more deeply integrated EU state is such a good idea?

What happens when we eventually have to give up control of our banking and currency?

Its you guys on here that seem to be suggesting financial ruin. The great heist you were calling it?

The EU regs are very much in line with the MHRA which I dont see becoming any less stringent, because we along with the US very much had a part in writing those regs.

Malvern – that was the question that was put to the people? I’ve tried to explain my reasoning for my answer.

I see an attitude of lets see the problems and not the solutions in here. Which is why I originally made my echo chamber comment.

Kimbers – Yes we have received the benefits of a club which we pay handsomely to be a part. A club with which we cannot now negotiate an agreeable relationship without facing financial ruin. Speaks volumes to me about the future direction of the EU as a federal state.

He moved the rights to the PD as I posted earlier, which he can be taken to task on.

I work in a Pharma company which exports to the US and EU markets, we already abide by all necessary regs for both markets, so what changes apart from having an office in an EU state? Which we already have.

TJ the negotiations were also a sham until it went to the wire last year, the same will happen this time.

On the subject of state aid, I really dont want to be in a club that has to bail out member states on a 10 year rolling period, this is what happens in the EU. There is a fundimental disparity between the economic output of the northern countries and the southern ones.

Helping truly disadvantaged people in Yemen/Syria/Bangladesh, I am fully for that.

Yes I do reject this idea that brexit is necessarily a left/right issue, I would consider my self reasonably central on most issues. I once read on here “forget left/right, there is only up”

I voted leave in brexit because it was a simple question, “do you think we should leave?” That was as far as the question went.

I believe the ultimate goal of the EU is statehood (I may be wrong but that is my gut feeling and has been since I was young, I dont see any point in the EU otherwise). If the end goal is not to become further integrated what is it? If the EU is only a union why can we not leave on agreeable terms?

Why is everyone so adamant that there will not be a deal in the next 5 months?
I believe some sort of deal is very likely.

I’m still not seeing an explanation of why the EU or any country for that matter will willingly through away the ability to easily trade with an affluent country full of consumers?
As you guys say no one trades on WTO rules so why would we suddenly be doing this?

So what I’m hearing here is that our government are acting on behalf of a malevolent global elite who will happily sink an entire country for their own gain? As opposed to maintaining the status quo which would lead to a more slight gain albeit a sustainable one?

Seriously?

Well as we’re about 10x smaller we are about 10x less influential?

Look how easily Johnson caved to Varadkar on Irish Sea customs border

Surely that had as much to do with the GFA as anything?

They really couldn’t care less. Their motive is pure, naked greed and financial self-interest. The interests of the ‘little people’ don’t even figure in proceedings

Except during election time?

I don’t understand the sustainable nature of “disaster capitalism” and why any party would base policy on it, even one with a Moog in it. The financial crash ended labour, why would it be any different for the current party?

The best situation was remaining within the EU and using our influence

As 6th largest GDP why do we lose influence outside of the EU?

Countries like Germany, China, France, etc. have sovereignty, because they are wealthy and powerful states

As is the UK

Which shared areas did you object to, and in what ways are you looking forward to the UK acting differently alone (or indeed the EU acting without the UK having a say)?

I see from that that we “donate” nearly as much as the EU commission and are the 3rd largest donor. Maybe we can decide where that money goes ourselves as opposed to it being decided by a council of member states?

Untrue.

yes it evolved into more

And why wouldn’t it work as a bargaining chip? What has everyone here so convinced that Boris is aiming for a WTO style no deal brexit? What would that achieve?

The UK has never been a fully committed member of the EU, the EU was only ever meant to be a trade deal, why is doing a deal with America such a bad thing? Do people on here really think that the population of the UK would willingly see an end to the NHS?

I know STW folk think the rest of the populace are morons, but that’s not really the case.

You mean you don’t like the idea of helping people. Imagine co-operating internationally to help solve an international crisis. Sickening

Grum, that aid is not international it is within the EU, the UK has a great history of providing aid internationally irrespective of the EU. The EU now acts as a state which is the reason some want to leave, hence the idea of sovereignty.

XIV. LEVEL PLAYING FIELD FOR OPEN AND FAIR COMPETITION
77. Given the Union and the United Kingdom’s geographic proximity and economic
interdependence, the future relationship must ensure open and fair competition,
encompassing robust commitments to ensure a level playing field. The precise nature of
commitments should be commensurate with the scope and depth of the future relationship
and the economic connectedness of the Parties. These commitments should prevent
distortions of trade and unfair competitive advantages. To that end, the Parties should
uphold the common high standards applicable in the Union and the United Kingdom at the
end of the transition period in the areas of state aid, competition, social and employment
standards, environment, climate change, and relevant tax matters.

Is this what you meant Kimbers? This is from the political declaration from which the trade agreement will be drawn.

I hear that echo again

From Euronews

“It’s the first time the EU borrows money to give it as grants to countries. So it’s really a game-changer in terms of how this monetary union, how this European Union works.”

https://www.euronews.com/2020/07/21/eu-summit-deadlock-see-talks-stretch-into-sunday

I dont like the EU acting as a state, which is part of the reason I wanted out

The recovery fund set up to provide loans and grants to help areas decimated by coronavirus? Like, y’know, disaster relief aid? Money that the way we’re going we might well be needing ourselves at some point? That recovery fund? The fact that we’re no longer obliged to help people who are dying is a net benefit?

Yes thats the one, but I think it is aimed at economic recovery.

So more unelected bureaucrats? I thought the vote for Brexit was for less of those?

I wouldnt call AOs, EOs and Staff officers, unelected bureaucrats

someone please throw a stick for dougiedogg to chase before he utters any more guff

How rude :D

Two benefits for you guys

The extra civil service jobs you were talking about, job creation.

We won’t have to pay into the EU recovery fund to which even the R.O.I are going to be net contributors.

Unfortunately what we’re heading for will make the breakup of the UK much more likely, and I suspect Dougie, a United Ireland much more likely too. So it rather looks like you at least won’t be getting rid of the EU any time soon. Sorry about that

I dont see a UI in my lifetime, I cant see it happening without a devolved government in the north anyway. I do agree N.I will most likely remain under EU regs after the 5 year period.

sovereignty, taking back control, making our own decisions, no more unelected bureaucrats

Some would say these are benefits

What does the armco signify?

We havent agreed which lane we are standing in and which lane the car is travelling in