My wife and I work for the same company, she was 4/5 WFH at the start and is back to 1/5 WFH, mad thing is that my managers were WFH but the rest of us are on shift, makes management very hard, its not sustainable.

I’d say there will still be a degree of WFH but it wont be permanent.

Lucky you dougie, my sister had a fair wait at the start of hers and died a couple of years ago.

Sorry for your loss

Yes I was lucky, and touch wood have remained lucky.

So what? Why do you care? How does the economy of some tiny piss-ant country 2,000 miles away affect your daily life?

I suppose not any more but it would have as part of the EU

I got an appointment for my cancer in a week and the operation happened the next week.

Sorry I misread your comment though, the point I was making was that the EU has now piled more debt on already weakened economies, however if you are telling me that I could have flown to Spain to get treated faster, would that have been true?

I’m sceptical on that one.

So you’ve never borrowed money to improve your long term prospects, Dougie? Many people borrow money to buy a car to get to work to earn the money to pay the debt on a house they live in – the alternative is not being able to work or have a roof over your head.

Of course but the reality is that S EU countries have still not been able to pay off the last round of bailout. I posted a recent piece from the Guardian which explains the implications of this recent recovery plan.

screwing the feckless poor

And yet a great many votes came from less well off people, makes you think eh? Maybe they looked at the EU, thought “what’s the point?” and voted leave.

But of course not, they were just thick/didn’t understand the implications/ uneducated?

So thank you Brexiters for for saving southern Europe from even worse chaos than it is currently living through.

Yes, what every person in debt wants is even more debt.

That jokey phrase held a lot of truth in it… the “Believe in the UK as an independent world beating country” feeling is at the heart of what is happening…

There is no compelling evidence for me that suggests that the UK is not a world beating country regardless of all of the stuff thrown at me here.

At some point Dougie you & other Leavers will have to grow up & accept responsibility for your actions

That’s been done, a Brexit PM has been installed a majority has been installed and Brexit is happening. If that’s not taking responsibility I don’t know what is.

All along I’ve been asked why? Now when I try to answer why I get.

Yeah, but two world wars and one world cup. And blue passports.

In an attempt to shut down debate on a thread entitled Brexit 2020+

Brexiteers would like it to be lowering of standards and employment rights to be able to undercut the club we have just kicked in the balls after 40 years and that is a mere 26 miles away.

Sweeping generalisation and I’m sure very wrong considering the demographic of many of those who voted for Brexit.

So the EU is now somehow responsible for actions taken by the British government 5 years ago? Maybe they also made Boris Johnson write all those racist comments about letter boxes and watermelon smiles. You didn’t mention that (see it’s an easy game isn’t it?) Or are you just trying to change the topic without answering, again.

Please explian what those were?

However for whatever reason the EU failed to provide the UK with a highly compelling reason not to leave, other than knecapping us if we did.

I’ve now posted about the failure of the EU to address it’s own north/south devide.

Asked for reasons of ‘why?’ I have now provided two in my last two posts.

True, that particular journey was started in advance (windrush, hostile environments, etc.), Brexit merely a confirmation. Business as usual even (for some)… except now it’s also directed at non-black/brown people…

Yes but no mention of how the developed part of Europe is draining the populations of the med and east, but still expecting them to balance their books and pay a hefty share in terms of GDP for the recovery fund.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/jul/24/eu-coronavirus-fund-europe-recovery-package

Because the EU is a bloc of ‘developed’, ‘western’ economies and institutions

But that’s not totally the truth is it, refer to above. My Polish friends in work have made no moves to go back and prop up an economy which is ever more reliant on labour from Ukraine. The line sending money back home doesn’t ring true either as they spend it here.

I like foreign people. They help me expand my horizons. They cook Interesting food.

Very true I learn new Polish words everyday, I don’t think Brexit changes the fact that people from other countries are appreciated and valued in the UK

Four and a bit years now, any Brexity types come up with any good, solid, will stand up to more than 30 seconds scrutiny, won’t be immediately nullified by costs/downsides, tangible benefits of Brexit?

We could look to how the EU economy has shrunk relative to the rest of the world’s economy? With the UK looking at it and wondering why we can’t have a slice of that with out being kneecapped for leaving. We look at Switzerland, entirely surrounded by the EU yet enjoying it’s benefits and still able to sign FTAs

I was asked for input it was rejected, I’ve been belittled that’s fine, I’ll take advise, read up and come back with more questions.

Do you have any comments on what I wrote or are you just deliberately wasting our time?

Yes I read it, understood it, had no comments to make and followed the last piece of guidance. Hence why I changed the subject.

I didn’t think everyone got a say. Did all the economic migrants get a vote? After all, they are potentially the worst affected.

Only those from Cyprus,Malta and Ireland and commonwealth

Incidentally, what is your opinion on the Asher case?

The same as the supreme court ruling

Are you equating genocide to a row over a cake? I also think Mladic is being tried by the UN

See Dougie, we fact-check our own too. This is how we get smarter and learn things.

Yes I get that, it’s the very reason I haven’t joined a leave thread. However the thread is simply entitled Brexit 2020+

They can’t because now they’re having doubts and they want a grownup to hold their hand and go “there there it will all be fine”.

Well, it won’t.

So **** off.

I don’t need anyone’s reassurance and I’m sure many people who voted leave feel the same.

For every opinion I read on here I can read a counter opinion elsewhere.

Another one to ponder

The Ashers case went to the highest level in the UK, the supreme court. It has now been forward to the European court, which in fairness will likely return the same decision.

Do you guys think that it is good to be able to go above the highest court in the country? Or does this undermine determination of law by the UK?

It was a referendum, not a democratic vote.

Please explain what is undemocratic about a referendum?

Surely referenda are highly democratic as everyone gets their say.

Ok a caveat to that is that the PM is never directly elected, if it was a Labour government the case would be the same.

Why is it offensive to say that a democratic vote was ignored by all sides instead of being accepted and the resulting parliamentary infighting it caused has stalled the process for 4 years? Remain and leave have stalled the process.

Thanks TJ I’m pretty sure I have not personally attacked anyone on this thread dispite having to answer many more voices than my own and dispite being personally insulted.

I was asked to inject something into the echo chamber which I have done.

I could easily go to a brexiteer thread and have my own opinions bounced back at me.

I think the deal that was proposed was perfectly acceptable as a brexit compromise.

Brexiteers who did not accept Theresa May’s brexit deal
Pro Brexit DUP who blocked Boris’ brexit

Yes I blame them too, don’t assume I’m a DUP supporter.

Given that Brexit will have soon cost the UK more than all its payments to the EU over the past 47 years put together

Remain must take their portion of the blame for the on going costs of the drawn out process. Indeed remain must take share of the blame for the presence of Bojo as PM.

So is being able to trade with the rest of the world on our own terms instead of through the EU not a possible bonus of leaving?

Also the decision has been made to leave it is happening, why is it so wrong to suggest that we get on with it?

I think we could all agree that the main sticking point is uncertainty oabout the ultimate trading direction, which this government needs to make sooner rather than later, it would parliament to mitigate the effects on poorer members of society.

I would also say that if thoughts/opinions/feelings are now suddenly conspiracy or not valid, then there is not a lot of substance to this thread in either direction.

Firstly I have no idea what a poundshop THM is but I assume it to be a insult, I don’t think I have insulted anyone except for possibly their political ideals. Other insults thrown at me have included, drug dealer, drug user and troll.

Thats a bit unfair. Dougie is neither insulting everyone or making up fairy stories pretending he has an inside line.

I said this place was an echo chamber and I have sought to provide some evidence (superficial according to some) that life after Brexit wont be as bad as some in here have said. I do not deny it may be hard but its a big world out there with plenty of opportunity, I believe sense will prevail and a deal will be made with the EU, others opinions and I emphasise opinions may vary.

I believe the EU is going in the direction of statehood and I believe that this will not be in the best interests of the UK. Whether or not the UK still exists is up for debate but is also speculation, I believe it will exist.

On the issue of why an N.irishman would vote for brexit; I think I have made it quite clear that I believe in the UK as a prosperous country of which I want to remain a part, the vote was taken as a UK wide vote “Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?” N.Ireland is a part of the UK. 44% of people in N.I who voted, voted to leave along with me. You can make your own assumptions about those people, however I guess that like me they fundamentally believed in their place as part of the UK.

I found this video which if you want to watch it agrees with some of my feelings on brexit, I don’t feel that it is too far removed from the current situation, I think its conclusion comes to the crux of the problem.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/letters/independence-state-we-cant-afford-letters-2612296

We dont want Brexit but we will happily see the UK split up.

More on the success of the City

Alot of its success is based on location, time zone and language. Brexit does not change those things. It creates 1/4 of UK GDP.

Ok one of

Its the reason the city in the UK is so successful.

Are you telling me the language used in finance is going to change to French/ German?

What? Triumph and BMW to where? China?

So it happens to German companies too?

You are saying thats a direct result of Brexit, or Globalisation and and increase in China’s high tech manufacturing industry?

Kimbers, your graph suggest to me a GDP shortfall of 0.6%

Thats a hit I dont think I have suggested there wont be a hit from realigning our economy.

Including the end of the UK with a united ireland and an independent scotland? the loos of all the oil revenues to the exchequer, the loss of much of londons financial services to Germany, France and iScotland?

Hold on I got called out for speculation

When you say instability, you mean me having to spend a few hundred quid (and a couple of days) sorting out Estonian e-residence so I can move my business over there and pay €20k of tax in Estonia rather than the UK next year.

Slow hand clap for doogie, well done. That’s “taking back control” for you.

As is your want captain, things like factories and banking networks cannot be moved so easily.

I propose when all is said and done the UK economy looks more or less the same with a shift in trade to a more R.O.W focus, and yes I will admit that may lead to more instability.

What I dont see is the closing down sale that many on here would have us believe Bojo and his chums are planning.

And what do we gain from our deal with the SADC, which includes South africa and Mozambique?

Quick google gives these figures; “Trade continuity agreements signed cover countries accounting for £89 billion of the UK’s trade. When the SACU+M agreement is signed and takes effect, this will go up to £99 billion.”

So £10 billion?
When the total looks like this;
“In 2019, the UK’s exports of goods and services totalled £700 billion and imports totalled £724 billion”