The Duncton CX Sportive is about 5 miles from my house – so I s’pose I gotta do it! 😀

I and two mates did the Saxon CX Sportive last year which was our first. We all really enjoyed it.

The route was a great course and was clearly waymarked. Although I must say the proportion of offroad seemed much more than was advertised.

At the Saxon there was only 1 feed station from what I recall. Take your own drinks, bars/gels etc. Take twice as many inner tubes as you think you’ll need too – I used up five(!) and had to beg, borrow and steal as I’d only taken two.

5 Spot.

End of thread.

Forget fashion (whether Roadie or MTB) – and forget received wisdom too. If you have the time and inclination, do your own experiments, or think outside the box….

After 20+ years on road, mtb and CX trying every gear combo imaginable, I have found the future! You read it here first! 😀

And that future is….. CX gear ratios on a road bike: a 38/46 double chainset with 13-28 cassette. 😆

Why…..?

Because many people find the small chainring (39 or 42) on ‘conventional’ road chainsets too large for climbing. You can climb on a 39 for sure, but unless you’re very fit, or your last name is Contador or Schleck, it’s no fun.

Hence the massive market take-up of Compact (34 tooth) in recent years.

However, Compact has 2 big disadvantages – there is a BIG gap in gearing between the 34 and 50 tooth chainrings, and a compact 34 tooth ring doesn’t work particularly well with wide-ratio cassettes e.g. up to 27/28 tooth – the gains in each cog are very, very noticeable and many find them awkward.

The huge gap between the 34 and 50 for me was a big problem, detracting from the ride… when rolling along on a 34 you are constantly shifting between it and the 50 whilst simultaneously having to shift multiple cogs on the cassette, all to compensate for that big gap in gearing produced by the 34/50. This can become seriously annoying and detract from the pleasure of the ride. For me, I felt like I was constantly shifting around in a never-ending quest to find the right gear.

Triples can have compromises too. The middle ring on a Triple is generally a 39 (same gearing as the small ring on a ‘conventional’ road chainset) with a 30-tooth granny. Some folks like these for hills or touring with heavy loads, but shallower gradients e.g. rises in the road mean that (sometimes) you can be shifting between the 30 and 39 chainrings and the cassette to find the gear that’s right – a bit like a Compact. Triples do add that little bit extra clutter, although many people don’t have a problem with this.

So what about CX ratios?

Try a CX chainset 36/46 or 38/46 with a 12-28 or 13-28 cassette. I’ve been using a 38/46 chainset with 13-28 cassette for a year now, and as a road bike it does away with all the compromises of ‘conventional’ road gearing or triples.

A 38 x 28 low gear is EXACTLY the same gear as a 34 x 25 which is what most Compacts come with (for those who care about these things, it’s 35.7 gear inches). Yet with a 38/46 there is no massive gap/jump in the gearing between the front chainrings – it’s a smooth transition that I find requires no simultaneous change at the cassette. A 38 front ring with a 28 cassette is a great gear for climbing (as stated above – it’s the same gear as a 34×25 Compact) but unlike a Compact a 38 chainring is also a great gear for spinning along on flat and rolling roads… whereas with a 34 Compact you’re constantly shifting between the 34 and 50 to find the right gear.

What about the big ring on a CX chainset then?

Some will say that a 46 tooth big ring is for girls…. well, OK then. So how much time do you spend in the 53 x 12 or the 50 x 13? And for those of you who actually use that gear even occasionally, are you spinning that gear out or are you straining to grind it over? Be honest.

Frankly, I never find myself outspinning the 46 x 13 gear. I don’t find that I even get into that gear that often, perhaps 4-5 times per ride. And when I do, I can hammer the heck out of it, pretending I’m Cav on the Champs Elysee, but hardly give anything away to those on bigger chainrings.

So in summary, a 38/46 CX chainset (or 36/46) with 13-28 cassette provides the exact same climbing ratios as a Compact, but does away with the big disadvantage of Compacts being the huge gap in gearing between the 34 and the 50. And for 99% of riders a 46×13 provides a sufficiently big gear to hammer like a nutter when sprinting.

I’m sure that some will say that there is an overlap in gearing between the 38/46 chainrings i.e. the ratio is not wide enough, but… they will likely be folks who haven’t actually tried it therefore don’t know what they’re talking about.

Anything less than Dura Ace, Red or Record Carbon is not taking it seriously! 😀

Seriously though… most people’s first CX bikes are built using whatever spare parts are lying about in the shed. My first 2-3 CX bikes were a real mish-mash of road and MTB stuff all banged together – and they worked perfectly.

With my mature years and discerning connoisseur style, my new CX bike has full SRAM Red gruppo, with Avid Shorty Ultimates (just about THE most expensive cantilevers known to man), lots of fancy parts and a beautiful set of expensive, handbuilt wheels. But I’m a whore….

Just build your first CX bike with whatever you’ve got and ride the heck out of it!

Thanks for the info again chaps. And TexWade – many thanks for the kind offer but I’m going to get a new one as I do want to link it to my Mac and the audio/microphone thing sounds arcane!

Erm… researching this it’s a little more involved than I thought.

I need an HRM that has a timer, and can record avg heart rate over separate intervals e.g. 2 x 8mins, 3 x 12 mins – it needs to record the avg over each interval separately, not the avg heart rate over the whole 60-90mins workout.

Reading the blurb on many HRM’s it isn’t clear at all which ones can do this vs. which can’t. I must’ve looked at more than 20 HRMs now and can’t decide… any recommendations from the STW massif?

The training plans in the book are equally divided between race and endurance rides i.e. ‘Centuries’. Flanders is 150 miles, so can be treated as a long century.

The event I’m training for is the Ronde van Vlaanderen (Tour of Flanders) sportive – the full 240kms on March 31st, so I have 12-13 weeks to prepare.

I’m capable of riding 6-7hrs comfortably right now, but I know the RVV will be a whole different ball game requiring me to ‘step up’ to a whole other level of fitness.

Thanks folks – good advice. Think I’ll look for an inexpensive HRM that reads the average heart rate… and buy a clock with big visible hands and a second hand!

That Vast thing… what’s the difference between the HD and non-HD versions?

For non HD there are 2 episodes, whereas only 1 episode HD??

+1 that coil Lyriks are one of THE best forks.

I’ve had Pikes – coil and air – and Revelations and the Lyrik’s are significantly plusher. They are laterally stiffer – very noticeably so – therefore track better. I constantly worry about the weight, but can’t find anything that would work better.

I bought a pair of Marzocchi 44 RC3Ti’s and hated them. They could never achieve the claimed 150mm travel and were noodly by comparison.

I love the weight savings of air forks but they perform very poorly by comparison with coils.

I’m doing it in 2012. Going for the full 240km’s too. Never done it before – and it’ll be very hard work I’m sure! 😯

Going over on Eurotunnel and staying in central Bruges so as to be right near the start. Wife and kids coming, so will drive to Ninove at the end and collect me.

Am doing it on my Cyclocross bike as it can take 28’s (Conti GP4000 4 Seasons) plus if the weather’s cr@p I won’t mind that taking a beating rather than my carbon Colnago with Campy Record.

To the OP: on Eurotunnel with bikes just book for a high vehicle if they’re on the roof, otherwise ok if on a towball mounted rack.

Depends on your intended usage…?

If used for winter training, CX type rides, some light trail work then CX gearing will be fine i.e. 38/46 or similar up front and 12-25 or 12-28 or so out back.

If you plan to ride it more as a mountain bike then a 32 cassette on the rear may be useful, but the gaps between the ratios is very noticeable.

It’s SRAM 2 x 10 chainset with 28/42 rings.

THAT is brilliant!

No such thing as a “free IFA” – they are NOT independent if they are taking a commission on any product. Whatever area of advice, they are obviously monetarily motivated to sell you the products that they make commission on – and the product they will recommend highest is usually the one that they make the most commission on.

To get a truly “Independent” financial adviser you will have to pay fees.

If you want a product salesman, see an IFA.

Bud Light California Mountain Bike Race Series at Laguna Seca, 1995.

Me on my Roberts DOGS BOLX

Sea Otter 1996, switched to a Bontrager Race Lite.

It reads like wishful thinking marketing pap.

Unfortunately Marzocchi have never recovered in the market from the disastrous quality issues 2008-2009. While their current forks are back to their best (I had a pair of 44 RC3Ti’s) people just aren’t buying enough of them. MIne were the only pair of new ‘Zocchis I saw on any bike for a year.

Thanks for the replies & info folks – all very useful! 😀

Oh – and can the genuine Smart Bike Rack be fitted on the back of a Cabrio?

Now running coil Lyriks instead of ‘Zocchi’s…

And my previous one..

And the one before that..(!)

Mine’s had a fair few months of abuse and showing no signs of use..

Raw is absolutely teh BEST paint finish I’ve ever had.

Scratches? No problem…

Cable rub? No problem…

Paint chips? No problem…

Chain slap? No problem…

Lean your bike against a lamppost? No problem…

Marks on the frame from the car bike rack? No problem…

Mates lean their bikes up against mine? No problem…

If your battery pack’s rubbed a small polish area – forgettaboutit! Wherevr you clamp things to a raw frame it’ll do that.

I was tempted by the Singular Kite, as the team I used to race for was sponsored by Paul Sadoff at Rock Lobster so I’ve a passion for steel. I’ve also owned a Bontrager CX and a Salsa Cross before that.

However, that was the 90’s and having got back into CX last season I bought a cheap Kona Jake, which was a basic but nice enough frame until I tried a Jake the Snake (Easton Ultrawall) and was immediately impressed with the difference, so replaced the Jake with that. Then hankered after steel again so bought a Cotic, which as soon as I built and rode it I realised was not a CX bike but a mountain bike masquerading as a CX bike and had too many quirks for my taste, so sold all of that and was flip-flopping between the Singular Kite and a Specialized Crux.

What sold me on the Crux was I went to watch the Rapha Supercross at Alexandra Palace – where last year’s UK National CX Champion was on a Crux as were several of the top pros. I got talking to some of them and said “Hey, that’s a pretty cheap frame, how does it ride?” Their responses were unanimous – very, very good. The frame is waaaay better than the components Specialized hang on it when sold as a complete bike and warrants much higher end kit. The frame is an Elite level race frame.

So I bought a Cruz frameset and hung a mixture of SRAM Red/Force gruppo on it, with handbuilt clincher wheelset (Hope hubs/Velocity A23 rims) etc.

I rode it for 4+ hours at last weekend’s Salisbury CX Sportive which was it’s maiden voyage and have done two 1-2hrs road rides since and love it. It fits well, is made well, is very, very light (frame approx 1,500g) whole bike is 18lbs without spending silly money and it’s rippingly fast. Right now, I can think of no downsides.

I’m sure in time I will cave in and also buy a Singular Kite or similar just so that I have a steel frame back in my armoury but for now I’m really liking the Crux.

The fact that several national champions ride them (UK, USA, etc) speaks volumes too. It’s not just that they’re sponsored – when you see how fast they ride those things you realise that the frame itself certainly isn’t a limiting factor for mere mortals like us.

Standard fee to receive funds is 3.4% if you are a seller/normal person accepting funds.

There is no fee if you send money as a Gift, which some sellers here on STW seem increasingly keen on, however when buying goods that way there is zero Buyer Protection, which kind of defeats the purpose of using Paypal in the 1st place.

I’m 5’10 and always ride a Large from Turner – have had six 5 Spots and one Flux now.

Have ridden several Mediums and for my size they just feel too small.

Over the years as geometry has changed my stems have reduced from 90mm -> 70mm -> 50mm, but bars have got wider, forks taller and steering slacker, so it’s not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison.. more an observation/commentary on how geometry has changed between 2005 and 2011, not just on Turner but all bikes really.

My Flux was a Large, 2009 DW model and I ran a 70mm stem.

At 5’10 we are what Dave Turner calls “Tweeners” – right in between a Medium and Large. Best to bag a test ride before choosing, as so much depends on what you’re coming from before.

I’m terribly sorry to tell you that they are gob-smackingly good!

Screw Christmas pressies for everyone else – buy yourself a new Flux! 🙂

I was lucky enough to be given one to ride for a whole season back in the day when I lived in California in the mid-late 90’s.

It was one of the original Bob Seals Retrotec’s… not the current Inglis bikes, although I’m led to believe that Inglis built some of the original Retrotec’s too(?).

That Retrotec was without question one of the finest bikes I’ve ever ridden. I SO did not want to hand it back!

It handled superbly, was light as a feather and was very, very well made. The one I did the season on was one of the swoopy cruiser style frames and was an SS. At 16.2lbs using a Ritchey Logic rigid fork it was an absolute blast and flew along teh trails.

Would so dearly love to have that bike with me now…

I was on a CX bike.

Not ideal in the goopy mud with file-tread semi-slicks, especially changing 6 punctures!

But I had a smile on my face all the way around. Rode it with 2 mates, all of us on CX bikes, and we were just laughing all the way around.

Skeggs Point on Skyline Blvd has an excellent network of trails – but you really need someone to guide you.

Also, there’s Big Basin further down the peninsula, and around Santa Cruz there’s truckloads of good spots such as Soquel Demonstration State Forest, Wilder Ranch, Butcher Ranch etc.

Should all be findable on Google Maps.

Peteimpreza – what is the crema device like these days?

I ask because the last Gaggia machine I had with a crema device just p*ssed coffee all over the kitchen when the device was fitted – we sent it back to Gaggia, who said it was fine (b@lls!)

Are they any better these days?

pastcaring – see my reply to your ad!

I agree but putting your weight back unloads the front i.e. easier to wash out?

If your weight is in the right place when cornering you’re weighting the forks into a turn anyway, so no, it’s not easier to wash out the front end.

It’s important to remember that when people quote HA they are talking about a static measurement, not dynamic. A rider of a given weight weight will compress a 160mm fork proportionally more than a 140mm fork, altering the ‘dynamic’ HA on the trail. No way a 160mm fork makes a DW Spot ‘wash out’ the front end otherwise people would be constantly crashing ’em and they are not.

Plus putting the bars and BB higher makes it abit unstable at higher speeds?

Er, nope. You’re talking about an infinitesimally small amount higher BB. The difference is almost unnoticeable. And higher bars? Nope again – see above re dynamic HA under trail conditions.

Besides, all this talk is irrelevant if anyone with a 2009/2010 Spot wants a slacker HA just buy a Saar or Works Components headset to knock the HA back a degree and use existing forks. Job done.

Like every manufacturer, Turner make incremental improvements each year.. 2011’s changed a bit over 2010 models and 2012 models are better yet again. But they are minor improvements, it’s not like it’s a whole different bike.

No- the 2011/2012 keeps it slack and the whole front lower. Putting 160’s on a 2010 merely puts the bars higher and therefore the BB also higher.

It makes the bike taller. Something that isn’t good IMO.

It’s not true that it merely puts the bars and BB higher Hora. It also shifts the rider’s weight slightly rearwards, alters the steering geometry to be identical to 2012 DW Spot head angle, making the steering feel very different, makes the front end plusher etc and yes, it also raises the BB height very marginally, but not in a detrimental manner at all.

Plenty of owners have done it and plenty like it is all I’m saying. No reason to not go for a 2009/2010 Spot.

Just to provide a counter-argument to the points on geometry above:

I’ve run my 2010 (and 2009 before it) DW Spots with the ‘older’ head angle and found them perfect.

Set up with 140mm or 150mm forks they are fast-reacting, flickable, singletrack flyers that give you everything you’d want from a rip-it-up trail bike.

My 2010 Spot set up with 160mm coil Lyriks, which is how I use it now as as singeltrack/trail bike, knocks the head angle back by the same amount as the 2012 bikes. It moves your weight slightly rearwards too – and feels BRILLIANT like that. SO much so, that it’s stayed in that config for the past 6 months and will do so.

No reason not to run 160mm forks on a 2009 or 2010 DW Spot therefore…

Best bike I’ve ever had.

Also the most versatlie bike I’ve ever had – can be built light, mid-weight or burly and it will do it all.

Ride mine year-round each weekend for all-round MTB rides, but built it burly last summer and DH’d it all week in Morzine (it was fantastic at that) and equally have swapped wheels, forks, shock etc over and have done a few XC races on it – in fact I’ll be doing just that next weekend at the Brass Monkey’s 1st round.

The fact it has excellent build quality and the very best warranty in the entire industry are additional benefits!

Get one.. brilliant fun.

Had my 911 for 2yrs – still (sort of) looking for a bike rack for the roof!

Just bought some SRAM Red stuff from them.

Prompt.

Efficient.

Great discount.

No problemo…

By the way – you can run the rear brake line to the right side of the headtube and the rear mech line to the left of the headtube and all the way down the Downtube, then have them cross over in front of the shock on DW Turners. That’s what many who use right-hand front braking do, as it enables smoother arcs for the cables.

I saw a post on MTBR where DT also recommended that as a good thing. Although if you have a coil as Toons does you may want to check that the cable/hoses have enough clearance. It’s certainly no problem with air shocks.