Because what happens in MTBing tends to follow a path motorbikes took years earlier….disc brakes, suspension, hydraulics, bigger tyres, carbon, wide bars etc etc…..not always for the best in my opinion.

The Panigale is monocoque aluminium, certainly easier/cheaper to manufacture and more familiar in feel for average riders than the carbon airbox MotoGP derived idea.
Carbon is just another material, I don’t dislike it, I just object to the evangelical move towards it when it’s limitations have been visible in other arenas for so long.

Suzuki also used a 90 degree v4 until recently and it was regarded as a great handling bike but lacking in throttle control and power….Honda also managed to position their v5 and now v4 in their frames perfectly adequately too….you can’t blame Ducati’s engine layout for the initial failure of their carbon machines.

Stoner was an outlier, nobody else achieved anything like that success on the Ducati despite the firm going through riders at an astonishing rate and flooding the grid with satellite bikes.
Stoner also despaired at times at the lack of front end feel despite his success, often stating the bike gave no warning before crashing, famously on the warm up lap in a race I can’t now recall the date of!
It was also so fickle it would only work on Bridgestone’s tyres, when the control Michelin came into force the frame’s limitations reared its ugly head again and nobody could get it to work for literally years….carbon is as limited as any other material and despite the massive R&D budget of Philip Morris tobacco bankrolling the Ducati effort in MotoGP.

That Stanton always gets me….truly beautiful and dangerous for my credit card…stop it!

Ducati still use steel trellis in their road bikes, their original MotoGP frames were also steel trellis and apparently a joy to ride….Ducati entered some fallow years when they went over to carbon and couldn’t get it to work in the same way….it’s only in recent years they’ve got their head round it and built a rideable bike….but it’s still a fickle machine compared to the conventional longer beam layout (steel or alu) which allows for what the riders term as feedback and allows them to manage their tyres better over race distance….the major criticism of Ducati’s carbon box section frame in recent years is it’s ‘dead’ feeling and that has come from a multitude of riders.

Re. the demise in road bikes, weight sells….if you’re peddling a steel frame sports bike weighing 220kg and making 150bhp you’re going to lose out to a rival marketing campaign selling a sports bike with the same power but with an alu frame bringing the bike in at 200kg…..even if your steel frame bike rides better.
Most bike journos rate the steel frame Honda CBR of the 90s over what came next.

Quick edit
….despite my vociferous defence of steel I really don’t have a dog in this fight, in fact I may be a bit hypocritical as my new HT is aluminium and easily the best I’ve owned….as someone else said, geometry is more important….that said my steel Ragley and On-Ones were brilliant, my steel Dialled was rubbish.

The lateral flex re. multi pivot linkages and steel frames like the Starling are good and mirror my own experiences. As someone else said, the rear seems to ‘wriggle’ and find a smoother route through harsh terrain than a stiffer made rear end, I like this effect, others may not.

What I find amusing is some posters coming out as anti steel and pro stiffness at all costs allowing the suspension to do it’s thing….but then moving over to plus size tyres and silly low psi measurements which is in effect the same thing they’re criticizing steel frames for….undamped flex/bounce!

None so strange as MTBers hopping on the next bandwagon.

They’re getting amazing reviews and believe that some flex in a frame is a good thing

Been saying this for years, they tried maximum stiffness in motorbikes a few years ago and they turned out to be chattery unridable pieces of crap, they eventually realised some flex is good for rider feel and feedback….finally MTBs seem to be going that way too now.

Have you ever ridden a motorbike or had motorcycle lessons?….ever attended any kind of advanced driving course?

If so I’m preaching to the converted so ignore me…..but a spinning wheel without any braking forces on it (particularly bikes where grip is at a premium with only two wheels) has the maximum amount of grip it can generate, applying braking forces slows you down and may give the illusion of more grip but in reality you are asking more of the tyre and it will let go shortly.

On motorbikes we were always told that if coming into a corner too fast don’t panic and brake, the wheels will lock and you’ll go down or the braking forces will make the bike sit up and you’ll go headlong into the tree, oncoming traffic etc that you were trying to avoid….instead just keep leaning and turning, the tyres will see you right….same for cars, never brake mid corner unless you’re trying to provoke a skid, get it all done on the straight and take the corner off the brakes and enjoy the traction of the tyres and pass it off as your riding skill!

I cover my brakes with a forefinger on each hand but don’t feather them on a run, I brake for as reason then come off again for any corners, features etc….try it on a section of trail you know well.

(Just seen your above edit, reeled in hook line and sinker).

See, I’ve had great service from BPW, Antur and FoD uplift guys when I’ve made internet bookings, paid obviously and then realised I can’t make the day for whatever reason….in some cases I’ve phoned and spoken to someone and other times I’ve just emailed but all of them have happily moved me to a day I can get to….maybe it helps that as I work shifts I tend to book midweek slots but either way they’ve all been brilliant.

See, I’ve had great service from BPW, Antur and FoD uplift guys when I’ve made internet bookings, paid obviously and then realised I can’t make the day for whatever reason….in some cases I’ve phoned and spoken to someone and other times I’ve just emailed but all of them have happily moved me to a day I can get to….maybe it helps that as I work shifts I tend to book midweek slots but either way they’ve all been brilliant.

One ride was all it took for me to decide the ‘legendary’ Dialled Alpine was nothing special and had long been superseded by bikes like the 456-evo (which I also owned at the time), riding them back to back it was almost comically bad, the Alpine had once been considered the king of long-forked hardcore HTs but the 456-evo stomped all over it in every way, even the Reynolds 853 tubing of the Alpine couldn’t save it….things just progress I suppose.

As I think another poster alluded to, most companies are pretty good at extending voucher deadlines especially if there are extenuating circumstances.
I booked one of those cheesy hot air balloon ride things when me and the current Mrs Deviant got together, due to poor weather it kept getting called off on the morning of the day booked, this happened several times and the deadline for using the voucher was looming, I called the company office and explained the situation….result: no problem and he put another 12 months on it for us….most companies are quite reasonable if you give them a heads up….although your post has made me jittery as I’ve been dropping hints all year about a BPW voucher for Christmas, I’ll have to scrutinise the expiry date if I get one!

Swapped my suspension fully over to X-FUSION, after years on Fox and RS the build quality has been superb, reliability is second to none and the price isn’t bad either.

I have the TL28 on my HT, they’re great, not dented or cracked yet despite my best efforts in Wales at BPW, Antur etc

Specialized Allez gets universally well reviewed, i started off on one a few years ago and never should have sold it….now have a Ribble Ultralite built using their bike builder page but if you’re a newbie and dont know what you’re doing then its probably best to stay away (to many options and you can come away with a bit of a franken-bike)…however if you’re confident then you can spec a road bike exactly as you want it and for not much money, certainly less than the LBS stocked brands.

RaceFace Half Nelson, great stuff…swapped all my bikes over to them.

We paid £130 for a tipper load of wood for our stove, should see us through winter, cheaper than gas or electric heating when viewed like that.
What part of the country are you in?

Dirkpitt74, I think the pm system only works for full members who’ve paid up to use the for sale section too, my email is sdd250@hotmail.com and then I can send you pics etc if you’re interested.

Mountain Warehouse down jacket here, ridiculously warm, well worth the money, T-shirt only underneath and I’m toasty.

You’re welcome to make me an offer on my Ragley Piglet-2 thats currently sat under my bed doing nothing, good conditon in that there are no cracks or dents, some usual riding scrapes….already fitted with a Shimano BB recently and has a Hope headset installed too…the 44mm headtube can take pretty much all the anglesets on the market currently, lovely bike (medium 16/17 inches i believe).

Then you dont have to worry about a too low BB as you’re not putting 26 inch wheels in a 650b bike frame.

Okay….here goes, never been on the receiving end of abuse as a child, there was the usual pushing and shoving from the playground bully but an adult never sexually violated me.
Maybe it does something to the victim mentally so that they are never able to face down and exact revenge/justice on the perpetrator despite growing up bigger and stronger than the former attacker….is there a power dynamics there that is hard wired and virtually impossible to break?

My own life experiences where people have intentionally tried to get one over on me either by doing the dirty on me career wise, a previous girlfriend who had an affair or a business/tradesman ripping me off have all resulted in the same thing from me….a cold, delayed well thought out response that has ranged from the perfectly legal setting someone up for a fall and making them look incompetent at work to burning down the outbuildings and cars of the chap my ex had her affair with….i’ve also used anonymous websites like crimestoppers to draw attention to people who have crossed me and i know are uo to no good, ditto the HMRC when a former boos screwed me over but was also playing fast and loose with all her employees finances.

There are ways and means to get back at people, Bristow was clumsy with his comments but i get where he’s coming from….why do victims of child abuse seem so slow to come forward for help/revenge even as adults?!

2 weeks of this isnt very long and you’re still in the adaptation period.

Keep hydrated, with that much activity each day aim for clear to light yellow wee.
Carbs are important but not the be-all-and-end-all, by all mean increase the quality stuff (pulses, seeded breads, potato, pasta etc) but also get some eggs and fish in there, it sounds like your body is crying out for protein and hard boiled eggs prepped in the morning or the night before are easy as is opening a tin of tuna and mixing it with mayo or taste.

Stagger you riding, take a step back in order to go forward. As others have said stop riding on wednesday for example and get the train (thats a nice rest day smack in the middle of the week), ride like this for a while until you feel better and colleagues stop telling you you look like crap….then gently introduce that middle wednesday again in a few weeks/months.

Your sleep seems fine, i wish i got 8hrs a night!

Maybe introduce a multivit each morning with added iron for optimum red cell function and vit-C for immune support.

I always use shakes, powders etc as a last resort…if i’m rushing out the door and need a meal in a glass i’ll blend one up and glug it en route to where i’m going but they’re no substitute for real food…and they can cause gastric upset as other alluded to!

Anyway, try some of these suggestions, change wont happen overnight but stick with it….something needs to change because from what you’re saying it seems like you’ll be run down and ill if you carry on.

I had Mavic EN521 on various HTs before going FS, narrow at 21mm compared to modern offerings but cheap and virtually indestructible….i’d forgotten about those, well worth a look, as are EX823 rims, wider again and built for DH and freeride I believe.

Tactics are good, strong and light, not on trend with widths though if that bothers you, I had them on my Trance and they worked fine with everything up to 2.5 wide tyres, just recently noticed a small dent in the rim but I think that was my ham fisted attempt to lever off a tyre that had been on the rim for over a year and seemed to have welded itself on there!

Have since replaced with DHX-pro rims by superstar, they’re tougher, wider (30mm internal/36mm external) and a bit heavier but seeing as the bike is used solely for racing and uplift days reliability is my priority.

I have both but find I just use the FS on the rare occasions I race, it’s coming on for two years old but looks brand new!

The HTs I’ve had in recent years (456-evo, Ragley Piglet, 45650b, Dialled Alpine) have just been too much fun, I’m now into Aluminium and have a Dartmoor Hornet, with air Revs, carbon bars, Pacenti wheels and a 1×10 setup it is light and hardcore in a different way to the steel HTs.
I choose it pretty much every time I ride, recently that’s been BPW and Antur, the HT won’t hold you back, only your own abilities will and it makes the blue runs at these places far more enjoyable.

Maintenance is virtually non existent, I’ll give up the FS before I get rid of the HT.

Skimmed through this when I got in from work this morning….hard to get emotive either way for me….we’re talking about food that’s all….you eat it, digest it and then excrete it….why that should concern anybody else is baffling to me.

I eat plenty of meals without meat in them, salads in particular and moreso in the summer….I think I’d struggle to put together a vegan meal though as I often use cheese if I’m making a meat free dish.

Some vaguely interesting points re. eating dogs, horse etc….always comes up on these threads, it’s purely cultural which is why it happens in other cultures/countries…if you’d been brought up in a country eating dogs it wouldn’t feel strange….but generally we don’t do this in the UK so the thought of it does feel odd.

For the exotic curious there is a website called Kezie Foods and you can order pretty much anything on there although I’ve yet to see dog but crocodile, antelope, horse, emu, etc are all for sale and I’ve yet to try a meat I don’t like yet and that includes liver, heart, kidney, offal …for me that’s the only reason for eating something, do I like the taste?

Selfish?….depends how you view animals, I simply don’t put them on an equal footing to us and view them as consumables.
In the same way that I wouldn’t interrogate a vegan on their dietary habits I expect the same politeness in return….generally most people seem pretty laid back about what they eat so I’ve never had any of these ‘uncomfortable’ conversations/confrontations that other posters have outlined on the previous pages.

Thread hijack but I wish people would extend their manners to pretty much every personal topic, I wouldn’t dream of sitting in a restaurant questioning someone about their appearance or asking why they’re fat for example but plenty seem to think I want their unsolicited, bigoted and critical views on my tattoos spouted in my face all evening….boring. To sum up, live and let live I suppose…and keep your opinions on the personal matters of others to yourself unless asked (or posting in a thread like this!).

Can’t remember what it’s called but it’s a blue at the top (sixtapod?) that starts off the wooden ‘decking’?….easy flowing start, you can then come to a ‘trails cross’ sign they have there and join Hot Stepper….which is bloody brilliant in my opinion and has enough drops to keep even the experts amused, most are rollable if you’re not confident, I did it on a hardtail last week so it’s not beyond anybody’s capability….then at a road crossing switch to Blue Belle which is underrated and takes you through narrow tree gaps, is stacked with berms etc….love it, that can take you to the cafe and it’s a great workout.

I find some of the black a little contrived in that last time I rode them it seemed they’d just dumped huge rocks/slabs all over the place to make it difficult….it didn’t, it made them a chore, Antur had better black runs IMO but a day at BPW is always fun whereas I concussed myself and broke my wrist last time I went to Antur!

When I lived in the South East and conditions got slushy, muddy and clay-like I subscribed to the idea of the narrower the better…..it does work, they cut through the mud to harder terrain underneath….but wide tyres with moto style knobs also work, the widely spaced tread spits out mud and they clear easily….they also seem to float across the gloop better in my opinion.

Now I live in rocky Wales tyre choice is simpler, I can keep high-rollers on all year….or use a minion front….or if there is a little mud I have a magic mary that does the trick too….new/old FS is being refreshed and rebuilt this winter with a shorty on the front, I’ll give my opinion when it’s finished!

Have always bought the raw versions of the 456 family of bikes I’ve owned and loved, the finish has been awesome, why more companies don’t offer raw metal options is beyond me….it looks industrial, solid and cool AF.

My Saracen Ariel from their relaunch in 2012-ish? used Norglide bushings, they were fab and never needed attention like FS bikes with bearings I’ve owned.

Ragley Piglet 2, I ran mine with 140mm forks.

…..by chance mines for sale, contact me on here if interested.

Got a set of 26 inch On One Reetard rims laced to SRAM X7 and X9 hubs respectively.
Very good condition, no dents cracks etc…bearings are great, freehub perfect, they are 15mm and QR etc…i was practically giving them away on eBay as I didn’t want the hassle of posting wheels so clearly advertised ‘collection only’…..the buyer is now being an arse about couriers etc.
I’m in Wales, if you want them they’re yours for £50….collection only!

To the OP, that is a lot of tyre!…..are you racing Champery in 2011 Danny Hill winning conditions?….no?….then you can probably ditch the Dan.

I got through the worst of last winter with Mary’s on front and bank.

Geax Datura does a similar job for a quarter of the price but I think On One have finally sold out….the Spesh Hillbilly works well as a reasonably good rolling mud rear and is cheap too….but definitely a Mary or Shorty up front, the Dan is overkill IMO.

Like Northwind I’m using a Shorty front and DHR2….but I’ve equally good performance using a Mary on the front (and the same DHR2)…used to use a Minion front and Highroller back for racing but they’ve been superseded in my opinion.

Just took delivery of a WTB Convict (which looks awesome by the way) which I’ll pair with a Trail Boss at some point for experimentation….ditto the black chilli Trail King front and Mountain King-2 I’ll try later this winter too.

Not a fan of the Rock Razor, Minion SS, Ardent type ‘fast’ rolling rears that are all the rage, they all just seem lethal and rob me of any rear braking performance.

Massive geek, i’ll dismiss a well regarded bike on HA alone.

I like to know the angles of what i’m buying first….then i know it’ll do the job i want or the type of riding i do….then i can make it fit with little tweaks like bars, stems, seatposts, saddles etc.

Its the main reason i have no interest in a 29er Enduro, didnt Dirt Mag have to fit the 650b linkage, use offset shock bushings and a neg rise stem to get it working as you’d hope a 3k bike would straight from the box?!….bugger that.

I run my 650b Hornet with 26 inch wheels….tyre clearance is superb so no worries there, 26 inch tyres are also still fairly cheap which is a bonus and the smaller wheels dropped the bike several millimetres closer to the ground too…i’d never ridden a HT that felt so planted.

Only drawback was actively having to think about foot position as i got the odd pedal strike at BPW the other day which never happened before on 650b bikes running size appropriate wheels.

Spev, thats actually very kind of you and sort of why i came on here spouting off….sadly i have a tattoo session booked at 10am but whats the name of your shop for future reference?
Service like that is worth remembering.

Drovercycles ditto, cheers guys.

Should add the shock is the same eye to eye as the existing one and even the same brand so every chance of having the same bushings….just can’t believe a shop wont crack that job out and take my money!

Cheeky buggers the lot of you….i’ve never done a shock so want it done properly.
Headsets, BBs, cassettes, chains, brakes, tyres etc I’m fine with.

Never had a problem with an LBS fitting internet sourced gear, it’s the changing world we live in, adapt or fail.
Just this week I had them swap over the running gear from a steel HT to an Alu one….at £100 odd quid they did well out of it….the sanctimony on this thread is strong.

Sod it, I’ll try it myself tomorrow and use an LBS if/when I cock it up.

16 inch, when compared to the 16 inch Dartmoor it’s nearly an inch shorter in front/reach….progress I guess.

Still rides fantastically, took Antur, FoD, BPW etc in its stride last year.