Lifer – Member

What tosh.

Sorry chap you are wrong, fear is what drives all governments of left or right persuasion, it is fundamental to their existence, dates right back to feudalism. It also drives economies, it is driving our economy right now, do you really think we are at that huge a risk of terrorism at our airports for example.

The ‘war on terror’ if it really were a war it wouldn’t have been that difficult to win now would it?

We are all constantly manipulated and fear is an essential ingredient of society, always has been and always will be.. So simple solutions are too cheap, far better for long drawn out wealth and job creating ones.. Oh and of course humanitarian, lets not forget that..

hora – Member
If someone disagrees with you in person do you keep at them until they change their opinion to yours?

Hello hora, we’ve never met but well said anyway, oh and how do you do by the way..

As to ‘them’ we’ve committed that fateful error of ‘being wrong on the internet’ it’ll keep em going for days..

Even though in my instance I’ve been polite enough to acknowledge I accept their views and understand it is so much better to publicise and endlessly discuss a mass murderer such as this than the simple expedient of dealing with him in similar vein to the manner in which he despatched his victims..

But then that is the Socialist Society Leftist way, unless you keep fear of the bogey man present, you cannot justify government, nor the huge expense of it…

TandemJeremy – Member
Derekrides – I suggst you look into the Stefan Ivan Kiszkocase. He confessed. But was innocent

Or Stephen Downing Found at scene, had victims blood on him, confessed, found guilty, did 30 years, now known to be innocent.

Irrelevant, Dereks Law only applies in mass murder scenarios, had you read the thread, you would be aware of that essential point, now I really must depart, early start tomorrow, kids back at school.

nealglover – Member

You must be right then.

Thank you yes, I generally am, good night all.

TandemJeremy – Member
So then derek. at the moment we find people guilty beyond reasonable doubt. You want a new higher standard of irrefutably guilty who can be executed without trial. Who decides they are irrefutably guilty? Everyone thought the birmingham 6 were. Stephen Downing had a cast iron case against him.

Er hello.. The Birmingham 6 were not caught in situ, hence reasonable doubt.

And yes exactly that a higher level of irrefutable guilt punishable instantly by either death or cure should one be found, but at the moment death will do. Proof of a cure would take some convincing.

Now there are other crimes where this could work, Padeo’s, rapists someone mentioned earlier, castration could work and be instantly applied, if the higher guilt level were available.

So how do you prove irrefutable ?

Perpetrator at scene, Key legal witness(es) at scene, perpetrator confesses at scene. All present in the Breivik case.

Would that do it for you? Assuage your sensibilities?

It’s a fair cop gov, I need to die…

Reasonable? Introduce words like that and you create an entire Industry for the well educated better than the rest of us, to decide for us, at not inconsiderable expense I might add.

What I’m saying is that in examples of irrefutable guilt shall we say, maybe that word irrefutable would suffice, be capable of translating into enough languages for it to be universally accepted.

Where they did it, no question, there they are on the scene even admitting to it.

It’s a no brainer, we don’t need a trial, long drawn out expense, opportunity for theatre, acres of newsprint, reels of news video…

Simple instant justice, just like an on the spot fine.

I just don’t get it with any argument against this, it’s pure logic, a simple answer. Maybe it won’t happen as often, whereas right now, you can’t tell me there’s not some other Norwegian nut job looking at all this and wondering… Or another Jap thinking about another gas attack, it’s bad enough we have religious zealots promising multiple virgins in exchange for the loan of a vest, not much can be done about that, but this type of slaughter is a little easier to understand and deal with imv.

And as i said before, I do accept all your human benevolence and views, but have to call them into question and once more beg to differ and try to depart this thread unbowed.

TandemJeremy – Member

Guilford 4, birmingham 6, all dead by your standards all innocent in fact.

No, don’t you start, go back read the thread, Dereks Law states where there is no doubt, caught red handed, smoking gun in hand, everything else remains as is, hypocrisy, plea bargains, human rights and all..

Just instances like this where there is mass slaughter the perp is caught in situ..

ernie_lynch – Member
just to clarify what is being referred to as ‘Dereks Law’
Put them down as you would a dog.

You should get the Sun to back your ‘Dereks Law’ campaign.

Write them a letter and see what they say. They like a good rabble-rousing campaign.

Specially if it has a hint of the lynch mob about it.

Well you’ll have to excuse the seemingly absurdness of that line, but it was only a few days ago, folk were howling for the death of some defenceless dumb animal because it had damaged some Coves fine anorak, yet here we are with a genuine reason to remove something truly dangerous, not dumb, but scheming, and we have veritable hands bleeding they are wrung that dry..only in STW could this be, there should be a verb about it.

And the very thing he wants is being achieved right here, he’s being talked about, his views are being discussed, he’s not just winning, he has won probably more than his wildest fantasies ever suggested to his addled persona..

So GrahamS resume of what happened, “78 killed? Did they get someone? Yes instant justice under Dereks Law, he’s dead now, good pass the beer nuts..

Is what it should rate, then he loses.

Er not wanting to butt into ‘big hitter’ thread domination, but just to clarify what is being referred to as ‘Dereks Law’ it means no trial, just instant response, you kill lots of people, you get instantly terminated, no trial (they are an industry in their own right, don’t get me started on human rights lawyers).

It should be a universal response, until such times as a suitable cure is found.

Put them down as you would a dog.

In reality in lots of similar circumstances the perpetrator self eliminates, but in this instance his whole strategy was leading to this trial, he surrendered, asked to be taken into custody by the ‘Delta Force’ but whilst he waited he calmly popped a cap into a couple more… Knowing all along there would be no serious repercussion for him pain wise, which illustrates the point I’m trying to make to the naive lefties..

GrahamS – Member
Now if my plan had been followed at the time, he’d have been long forgotten by now..
Yep I can see it now:

“Apparently a bomb went off in Norway killing 8 then 69 people were shot, mainly children.”
“Did they get anyone for it?”
“Yep, executed them on the spot under Derek’s Law”
“Righto. Do you know won the snooker?”

OK, so you are on the island you have a gun, he’s just shot one of yours, answer this dudes question below.

FeeFoo – Member
Thought experiment:

Forget about the Law and our justice system for a moment.

Imagine that the mother or father of one of the children was on the island and they managed to corner him after he’d shot all the children, including theirs.
They have a gun.
Should they shoot him?
Would you?

This isn’t a comment about what is right and wrong, just answer honestly.

Kent, The Garden of England, our bit is where they put the compost heap.

But there’s lots of Army Training ground so plenty of riding and the North Downs way kicks off, er North.

Lots of hills, lots of styles, some Forests with Firetrack, Cliff Paths toward the White Cliffs at Dover, plenty of views and always the sea in the back ground, all in all could be worse.

Looks like the makings of a potentially successful business to me, using the store to season the logs prior to sale..

Just watched him on the six o’clock news, gave a right wing salute to the court, he is loving all this.

He’s now the most famous Norwegian, probably the most famous Norwegian in the world today, y’all probably couldn’t name the Premier of Norway without googling it, he’s the most infamous Norwegian since Quisling and of similar status.

Now if my plan had been followed at the time, he’d have been long forgotten by now..

BigButSlimmerBloke – Member
Clearly I’m in the minority here,

Often happens when you’re in the wrong.

Not really a problem when you’re surrounded by folk who have to ask stuff like

“Why did my seat stem break at the point I centre punched it”
“How do I kill a pidgeon ?”
“My wife/boyfriend is banging someone else what should I do?”
“Why does my beard stink when I’ve been bivi-ing?”
“Why do I keep breaking stuff when I come off in my SPD’s?”
“Why do people think I look like a cock in my yellow lycra?”

littlemisspanda – Member
It should be universally accepted that mass termination of human life is recognised as an uncurable sickness and the perpetrator terminated.
The irony I am finding in your proposal is that the very people that were harmed by Breivik are the people who hold the kind of “leftist” views of “tolerance and acceptance” you seem to be advocating are detrimental to society.

I’ve got to stop this now, it’s going nowhere.

But the answer to that surely is an element of Darwinism, right wing gunman mows down leftwing youth and the Left try rehabilitation as an answer..

Clearly I’m in the minority here, I accept all your views and have to beg to differ..

MSP – Member
It should be universally accepted that mass termination of human life is recognised as an uncurable sickness and the perpetrator terminated.
So how many is “mass” 3, 5 10, 50? Who decides and who tells the mother of a murdered child that their child’s life was worth less because it didn’t fit the quota?

POSTED 3 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
GrahamS – Member
It should be universally accepted that mass termination of human life is recognised as an uncurable sickness and the perpetrator terminated.
I see.

And what defines “mass termination”? How many people would you have to be accused of murdering before you get put to death without trial?

Not my decision, how many do you think is fair? Say more than half a dozen?

Don’t you see the logic if it were automatic? I seriously don’t understand folk who don’t get this.

If there is absolutely no doubt, no question the mass killer is stood there with an empty magazine and bodies lying all around, women, children, why prolong the angst with long drawn out deliberation, surely that serves as more pain and suffering for the relatives.. If there is absolutely no doubt, it should be an auto response.

binners – Member
It should be universally accepted that mass termination of human life is recognised as an uncurable sickness and the perpetrator terminated.
Why? Because you said so?

No binners, because the inability to decipher ‘right from wrong’ is commonly held as a personality disorder last time I looked and I believe human life and the continued right to it, even for you and other single speed riding lycra boys who bivi in the same sleeping bag is fundamental to the human condition.

konabunny – Member
I’ve voted SNP and Lib Dem for years as it happens, it’s only after the left have demonstrated their full capability over the past decade and a bit that I swung a little further to the right and went against everything I ever judged as fair and reasonable and voted Tory…
My political views are not part of this

Of course not – what could possibly be considered more open to the application of impartial logic and less political then deciding whether the state is entitled to kill people who commit politically-motivated crimes?
But joking apart, I thought the bit where you suggested your track record of voting for the Tartan Tories and the Lib Dems (currently in coalition with the Tories) as demonstrating your former leftist sympathies was hilarious. Peter Capaldi move over, there’s a new satirist in town!

😳 Awfully sorry about that 😳

Typo SNP = SDP, The gang of four that became the Dem bit of the then Liberal party.

I’m not Scottish nor have any sympathy with that horrendous Salmond fella..

GrahamS – Member
I’m not advocating anything else for any other ‘normal’ circumstance, nor am I advocating the death penalty in this instance as a deterrent, more a less controversial end result for a publicity seeking mass murderer.
No, you’re advocating that the law should be malleable and that the state should be allowed to withdraw the right to trial, impose media blackouts and introduce death penalties, when someone (you?) decides that this is a “special circumstance”.

No thanks.

Not someone, not me, not lawyers with the ability to plea bargain, not the state and the particular ‘flavour’ of government left right or tyrant even. It is a fundamental human right to live and not be terminated before your due time in a fashion like this, completely randomly.

It should be universally accepted that mass termination of human life is recognised as an uncurable sickness and the perpetrator terminated. If a ‘cure’ is found (suggest Tony Blair be used for drug trials)then fine by all means try it, but until such time my method is logical.

This is simply about what is right and wrong, not how to prevent it, not a deterrent, just a simple and logical outcome that ought to be universally accepted and that no big show trial be part of the process, no grand standing lawyers and politicians, simple quiet extermination of a problem that none of us really want proliferating.

rkk01 – Member
Leftish views are all very well in a perfect world which sadly doesn’t exist.
Idiot.

You’re letting you own political views colour the way you see the world

Amazing thing about the left isn’t it? Anyone who isn’t is an idiot.

I’ve voted SNP and Lib Dem for years as it happens, it’s only after the left have demonstrated their full capability over the past decade and a bit that I swung a little further to the right and went against everything I ever judged as fair and reasonable and voted Tory.

My political views are not part of this, it’s purely a logical decision, a person kills 70 for publicity it makes sense to deny him that. It also makes good logic to terminate an entity that is malfunctioning as badly as this fellow seems to be, it certainly defies logic to attempt to repair..

littlemisspanda – Member
I agree with richmtb.

The only idiots here are those that subscribe to the view that tolerance and appeasement are the answer to incidents like this, all it does is to encourage more of the same.
And your evidence base for this is…..since the death penalty is not proven as a deterrent either.

I don’t think that life imprisonment represents either tolerance or appeasement. He may well, in the minds of some people, deserve the death penalty for what he has done, but what would it solve?

If you want to “put down” people who commit crimes due to ideology, then what’s to stop society going after people who express the same sort of views, just in case they commit a massacre later?

You need to read what I said, I said in cases where there is absolutely no doubt since the murderer was caught red handed, beyond any doubt, reasonable or otherwise, clear cut, he did it. Killed 70+ young people for purely political views (They were aspiring politicians).

Why did he do it? Lots of folk have fantasies about killing politicians or bankers or lawyers, maybe even fantasising that deep down there would be an element of a grateful public.. (This is the thought process of the raving narcissist going on psychopath) Pandering to it with a public trial, endless discussion, trying to understand why it happened, is pointless, it’s always going to happen. There is no solution, no political or social understanding that is going to prevent those with a personality disorder from reacting like this.

So there simply needs to be a quick and quiet solution that removes that particular problem from society if it arises.

I’m not advocating anything else for any other ‘normal’ circumstance, nor am I advocating the death penalty in this instance as a deterrent, more a less controversial end result for a publicity seeking mass murderer.

D0NK – Member

Oh and derek and hora stop being idiots

I take exception to this old chap, what is so idiotic about ‘putting down’ as you probably would have subscribed to on the dangerous dog thread, an obvious psychopath who if set free would do the same again and on the grounds his government subscribes to ‘multiculturalism’.

It’s an opinion, I don’t know this hora chap, but if he happens to hold the same views then I doubt he is an idiot either. The only idiots here are those that subscribe to the view that tolerance and appeasement are the answer to incidents like this, all it does is to encourage more of the same.

Leftish views are all very well in a perfect world which sadly doesn’t exist.

Hand wringing, publicising, massive expense, and thoughts of somehow rehabilitating a mass murderer are the acts of idiocy, where a simple quiet no fuss extermination is the logical solution.

Ecky-Thump – Member

Read it a couple of years ago now, I think. Yeah it’s a good lighthearted wander around the better end of the country. Recommended.

Right, I’m going to make it my first ‘kindle experience’, who is he? I thought he was some sort of Radio One Disc jockey they bought in to make you lot feel at home with us civilised popsters.. (We all switched to Radio 2 the moment that alien sound came out of the wireless.)

Without trial? Or just with a closed trial that no one is allowed to know about?

Something this bad, it should be as instant as on the spot fines for crimes at the other end of the scale, closed trial to confirm the facts and identities, into the chamber and out the back door in a body bag, within 24hours of the offence. Why they took him alive even amazes me.

The logical answer to this, is to the question: Either my method or the Norwegian method, which is more likely to encourage repeat offences?

Huge Notoriety and a life then spent as a guest of the state with a lot of hand wringers trying to reason with you why you did it, or instant death and an unmarked grave?

Ecky-Thump – Member
+1 really enjoyed the Stuart Maconie book.

Have you read all of it, I must say I’m tempted after the preview..

Interesting comment in the prologue to that Stuart Maconie book about there not being a “South of England” correspondent .

I mean why would there need to be, are they not content that we let them listen to our radio stations? It’s bad enough we’ve had dodgy dialect presenters fro some considerably irritating length of time now.

And since when were they allowed cappuccino makers and who taught them how to make them work?

I did like the “If you’re an Alien how come you sound like you come from oop North?”
“Loads of Planets have a North!”

I know I shall probably be banned for this Northophobia/ism, since this forum also suffers with a North South Divide, I’ve noticed its pretty much Southerners that get banned regularly and assume there’s only a limited tolerance of Southern Fairies here, but you have to laugh, the cliches are so often true…

Oh yes there was one other thing, how the **** do they get to sun dry tomatoes up there without the pidgeons crapping all over them?

I do wonder and question the so called ‘humanity’ that affords evil bastards like this the platform and oxygen of publicity. If I were a close relative of any of those who’s lives he’d taken I have to say I’d be pretty upset by all this, not to mention the apparent reasonable conditions he is being kept in.

Surely for such an obvious caught red handed and heinous crime, having him quietly ‘disappear’ at the end of a hyperdermic needle or a rope is the obvious answer, who in their right mind can argue against that?

All the protestations by Governments wanting to ‘keep us safe’ and going to war for it on hapless countries and something so obvious and solvable with the ability to dispense instant ‘justice’ gets turned into a show trial at huge expense, where is the upside in it all?

philconsequence – Member
So the dream dog that’s happy to chill at home all day and doesn’t need training seemed like an impossibility.

Which it is really Phil, you seem like a good bloke generally from what I’ve read here, why would you want to keep a dog locked indoors for what 22 out of every 24 hours of the day of every week? Then when you want to go away, kennel fees etc? It’s ok having a dog at home if the bread knife is there for company, or you can take it with you to work, or even out on the job and in a well ventilated van if you have that sort of job.

It’s not much of a life for it, it sleeps all night has half an hour then is expected to sleep all day…

Don’t do it dude it aint really fair on the fella..

That’s easy it’s well signposted in that Lunnon which is already pretty North, sign then says – Hatfield & The North. So Hatfield must be the border.

I use one called Office2 HD, it syncs ok can transfer excel files between it and my mac, wouldn’t do complex stuff on it, but works for read only applications which is all you really want.

Haven’t tried or needed to do ppt but I guess they’d be OK. The main thing i wanted at the time when it was early days for iPad 1, was some sort of file transfer capability which it does just fine.

Well clearly folk are weird sizes, I’m 5-6 with a 31″ so no it doesn’t feel too short even with the uppy downy in the down position, (then I’m standing on the pedals anyway, I went for the small because of the stand over height, was worried one day the forward frame height would attack the crown jewels..

They do have demo bikes available, I think the shop has to book them,,

legend – Member
ooohhh things just got interesting (for me anyway), the medium would leave me with .75″ of Reverb adjustment to play with so it might be on after all…..

now i’ve just got to worry about standover for my short-arse

EDIT: how is it length-wise To

How er ‘short’ is your arse legend? I’m of similar description, but have long(ish) legs relative to the short bit that makes the powerhouse that is me..

Sounds like you could (like me) consider a small, it’s a funny bike that way, I did a year on a medium and now I’m 9 months into a small.

Trimix you need rehab, you’re not funny, no-ones laughing, you need help.

Didn’t give it the oxygen of my viewing presence.

Nobody called derek should be anything other than revered…

Gervais should be more correctly forenamed Dick.

alfabus – Member
1. Pedals have been replaced with flats (orange ones) – not that there is anything wrong with ‘hucking the gnar’ on spds; I have ridden spds for years on all sorts of stuff, and I’m only now dabbling with flats again out of curiosity and a desire to be able to bail easier on jumps. I have drawn the line at lycra though – I have other bikes more suited to that sort of attire.

Hmm still sounds like you still need therapy.. 😉

But well done anyway, nothing nicer than a sinner reformed…

I hear they (The Transition Lot) are headed over here and there is going to be some sort of Transition Owner/Demo day with a free uplift for Transition Riders, not sure where it is or when, maybe late May, so watch out for details, and I’ll probably go up there, would be cool to meet other riders not from round here where I ride and put names to faces off this forum..

Tell me there’s not total SPD heresy going on in that picture?

SPD’s on a Covert Aaaaaaarrrrrrrrgggggghhhhh.

As to the OP question I have a feeling there has been a size change between 2010 and now, a lad I know bought a medium 2010, felt it was a bit to short on the top tube, then did a deal and swapped the frame for an 11 model and appears to be happy now.

Personally I am 31″ inside leg, rode a Medium but have switched to Small and enjoy it more.

Would someone please shoot that Alfabus and confiscate that fine bicycle before too many folk see it and get the wrong idea that it is alright to ride with SPD’s and lycra.

Habitual offender that one, if he were a Rottweiler he’d have been put down..

As it is I fear he’s been made ‘an example’ as have a few rioters, can’t go having a British Spring can we..

That little episode showed the powers that be how totally unprepared they’d be to a half decent bout of insurrection. I hadn’t realised they’d repealed the Riot Act, that used to be good enough, half a dozen Tommies and an officer reading it used to do the job.

Anyway I doubt it’ll be the last we see of stuff like this, there is so much crap being handed to us as a society by those who should conduct themselves in a more erudite manner in the name of profitable enterprise, law giving and Government. I’ll not be surprised if we have a serious uprising and not just petty criminals like this unfortunate. (Another reason they want to make an example of him, had he been an ordinary angry person it might not have looked so reasonable imv)

Black ties are so out as are wing collars, us dudes wear collarless dress shirts, ridiculous braces can also be worn should jacket less dancing be required due to excess champers..

Scaredypants has always been the sole light in the eternal darkness of this place.

Pay heed for he is the light and the truth..

Lady Ga Ga.

Is it wrong for a male person of ahem advancing years to still harbor thoughts of attending one of her gigs.

To be honest you’re wasting your time involving plod, these days they are about the most useless institution for honest law abiding folk, best avoided at every turn. Down here we have dog wardens, they are empowered to deal with stuff like this and would be less likely to be backed off by BS like plod.
Give your local council a ring see if there are such entities, we’ve got them for frikking everything round here, and a thorough nuisance they are to.