Really Flashy I’d never had you down as one of the ‘outraged and offended’

I shall leave you to it with a quote from your very own Guardian columnist who’s name I always forget..

“I hate offended people. They come in two flavours – huffy and whiny – and it’s hard to know which is worst. The huffy ones are self-important, narcissistic authoritarians in love with the sound of their own booming disapproval, while the whiny, sparrowlike ones are so annoying and sickly and ill-equipped for life on Earth you just want to smack them round the head until they stop crying and grow up. Combined, they’re the very worst people on the planet – 20 times worse than child molesters

CaptainFlashheart – Member
Sweepy, the ‘first against the wall’ trope is just that. It’s non specific, non offensive. Joking about a massacre like the Holocaust? Not funny.

Not wishing to irritate any further but the logic for using “Nazi-esque’ gallows humour is precisely because of the parallels drawn between the rise of UKIP and fascism. It also clearly hasn’t sunk in, that rather than promoting UKIP I am pointing out that it is precisely the excesses of the left that have caused it and education being just one of them.

Hell how bad is it when you have to explain a joke..

CaptainFlashheart – Member
Yes, really. And if you think I take myself seriously, then you’re not only deeply offensively unfunny, but utterly ignorant as well.

That wasn’t funny. It wasn’t gallows humour.

Well I thought it was exactly ‘gallows humour’ as a reaction to having my picture used as a cat litter, I have to say I’m disappointed and surprised by your reaction, you are one of the posters here that I have found amusing and enlightened, so take that in the manner that it is intended.

somewhatslightlydazed – Member
Maybe, but only after they have an understanding of Magna Carta, the Civil War,

The point about history, your real history rather than the Alf Garnett/UKIP view spouted by certain people, is there might (just possibly) be more than one way of “understanding” something like Magana Carta or the Civil Wars.

But don’t let proper historical debate get in the way of your propaganda.

I think you may be mistaking my take on all this, seriously I’m not here to promote the likes of UKIP, I’m merely indicating why they are suddenly rising up in popularity, so, it’s not ‘propaganda’ it’s the reason through errors of Political correctness that a pendulum has been set in motion, and my over riding point is that it is to do with education or the lack of it.

somewhatslightlydazed – Member
So you don’t know anything about the basis of the freedom of the individual and the right to trial then

I know it states that no freeman can be punished except through the law of the land. But why should I give a shit? I’m a serf. And a woman.

And you’d rather your kids knew about Islam than your own basic freedoms and how they came about?

CaptainFlashheart – Member
Post reported. Seriously not acceptable.

Really? Not even with the obvious wink? You do take yourself very seriously…

boxelder – Member
That’s me out.
Very poor taste there derekfish.

It’s a joke chap, poor taste maybe, but a joke just the same, I know it’s not permitted for those arguing a right of centre point to be permitted to attempt gallows humour, but just the same…

ninfan – Member
putting down the Jews.
Ah well, of course thats where constitutional history gets interesting – as the relevance of the reference to Jews in Magna Carta was of course the fact that they were main money lenders, since lending money with payment of interest was prohibited under Christian doctrine, as it still is under Islam.

So there we see the histories of big contemporary issues such as international finance, the regulation of banking, the concentration of money in the hands of the wealthy, the roots of future persecution and an exploration of the theological ties between Christianity and Islam – all these things tie into teaching an understanding of this historical bit of paper! Marvellous

Good Point ninfan, nice to see some here have had an education, let me guess, it took place before the eighties..

Nick – Member
I don’t want them taught about another meaningless belief.
You may think it is meaningless, I might think it is meaningless, however several billion people don’t. Might be useful to be aware of this, no?

Maybe, but only after they have an understanding of Magna Carta, the Civil War, then the various historical reasons those several billion people might want to come here and why UKIP supporters might not want them all here.

muddydwarf – Member
Ive just used a UKIP flyer as a cat litter liner.
Anyone have a photo of Derek?

I’m taking names here.. :wink:

You and Tom will be the first into the ‘showers’

somewhatslightlydazed – Member

From memory, Magna Carta is mainly about preserving the power of individual aristocrats, and putting down the Jews.

So you don’t know anything about the basis of the freedom of the individual and the right to trial then.

It used to be the duty of the church to teach religion, or you opt in to RI.

No more than I want my kids to be indoctrinated into the CofE, or Catholicism, I don’t want them taught about another meaningless belief. As an extra add on? Fine, but only after they’ve been taught enough about the UK to understand our founding principles.

Thereby a basis for judgement can be made.

Which inevitably will be that most religions are the root of all evil.

But that freedom and justice are worth fighting for and protecting.

Tom_W1987 – Member
Derekfish, I dislike you as much as beardy suicide bomber types. In fact, I’m half imagining you as some sort of Anders Breivik loon.

Keep fighting the power, bro.

Wel Tom rest assured you’d be the first in the cross hairs the day I finally flip out.. :wink:

PS that bloke can’t be all bad, he hasn’t got that big a beard

Oh come on, that didn’t take very long to show your colours. No fun.

Surely you should contacting the history department of said schools, and asking why Magna carta isn’t on the list? We do have a rather large amount of history to cover after all.

And surely its not a bad idea for them to get to know something about one of the worlds religions(with a million+ followers in the country) rather than listening to the rantings of their father?

I suppose they could have learnt about the Christian faith and how peaceful it is…oh, hang on.

Personally I’d sooner they were taught about the Hindu faith, which is open and encompasses lots of teachings, but then Hindu’s don’t go around bleating victim on one hand whilst bombing, torturing, discriminating, hell bent on world domination with the other, but that isn’t the point. They’re not at school to learn about religion per se, they’re there to learn enough about themselves to carry out an existence. Part of that existence is knowing who you are, where you’re from, why so many people from other countries want to come here.

All of that has the fundamental basis in history, from Magna Carta, through the civl war, the conquest of half the world and the loss of it all to the US and various other countries. I seem to spend almost all of my waking hours whenever these kids come round explaining it all to them.

They even have sessions boning up on minor little things I think they should know, you know like being able to name three or four English counties, never mind naming all of them and telling me where they are.

Or I rip the piss out of them and they worry about coming round to take her out for fear of being lab led ‘moron’ which quite frankly I can do all too often and shouldn’t given they are bright kids, supposedly well educated.

So what has this to do with UKIP, I hear you wonder? Fundamentally it is the root of the reason parties like UKIP can breed, on the fear brought about by lack of education, the reason why there are so many folk from other countries here and why they’re here, pretty much all of their countries have either been invaded by us, or fought over in times past, but our kids don’t know all this, or about basic freedoms that have been fought for, so in teaching religious trivia, rather than history, we are causing the problem.

boxelder – Member
Derekfish

It’s a matter of balance. As a teacher, I raise awareness of the Muslim faith before those others, to counter the constant barrage of vitriol that kids are exposed to from certain areas of the popular press. Though I’m sure your daughter gets to form her own opinions, encouraged by those around her to keep an open mind.

As a teacher do you know of the events surrounding Magna Carta? Can you enlighten pupils about the facts surrounding our Civil War, Cromwell and the resulting powers granted to parliament?

None of these kids know the first thing about any of it.

deadlydarcy – Member
…aggressively bigoted…
Aren’t aggressively bigoted folk just horrible to be around?!

Anyone with a beard is just horrible to be around.

Ask those 200 Nigerian girls.

El-bent – Member
So what you are saying that they should not know something about one of the world religions over the value of something other than in its historical context, has been replaced by other legislation?

Did they learn any other history? How about WW1? Or the civil war? Or the reaffirmation?

Pandering to Islam is just one irritating politically correct instance. Why Islam? Why not the Hindu Faith, or Buddism, both peaceful religions, both with representation here, but beyond that, the Magna Carta is the root of the freedoms and basis for our Justice System, which has been exported far and wide, pretty fundamental that kids know about it rather than some aggressively bigoted religion like Islam.

El-bent – Member
How long have you got?
Well go on then, spit it out, I fancy a laugh.

Well now let me think, what about todays latest.. How is it my youngest child having benefited from a fine state education, followed even by a spell in the private sector and all her friends, know all about the five pillars of islam, but nothing of Magna Carta – as a for instance.

ernie_lynch – Member
derekfish – Member
The more they get criticised, particularly by the irritating politically correct left…..

You’re at it again derekfish .

You know I didn’t mean that poor desperate Tory MP, and the PC quip was aimed closer to STW home than that my fine fettered red flag following friend.. :wink:

How so?

How long have you got?

Do you not real the Mail?

El-bent – Member
politically correct
You mean normal people who like the idea of being nice to each other?

No I mean abnormal people who make us normal peoples Daily Mail readers lives a misery. :wink:

The more they get criticised, particularly by the irritating politically correct left, the greater their vote will be…

In this instance had UKIP ironically had their way that company would have had to try and employ the lazy uneducated English work force, that in all probability would turn its nose up at such a menial task or charge so much UKIP couldn’t have afforded it.

Yes watching it, really quite depressing, is life really like that up there? Ice cream vans flogging drugs?

teamhurtmore – Member
I not sure if I am contradicted Derek or not, but if your wettie is a tri/swim specific one IT SHOULD feel pretty restrictive when out of the water. It then feels much better in the water. A baggy wetsuit is a nightmare in the swim.

Not exactly contradicting there’s truth in what we both say, however, there is a big difference between good fit (no baggy water swill roundness) and so tight it cuts your breathing. Intense cold will do that for you anyway, however I’m no triathlon competitor, just someone who spends a lot of time in the water in normal wetsuits, they are a lot lot more stretchy these days, but still nevertheless they can make you feel old and out of condition very quickly if they’re too tight. (Which they have a habit of being this time of year, every one knows wetsuits shrink through the winter, especially around the middle :wink: )

Sounds like wetsuit fit constricting breathing, we tend to try them on and fit them in a warm shop/store and like everything else they shrink in the cold.

I’d go for the sea this year it’s warmer for the time of year than I can ever remember in times past because of the mild winter, our sailing club is just starting Open Water nights next week.

+1 on all that, they’ve really bolloxed it up, I’ll give that photo bucket a look..

ohnohesback – Member
What do the war dead have to do with the right to vote? They didn’t willingly die for some notion of democracy, they were conscripted sacrifices for the greater gains of the political class that controlled them.

A lot of them volunteered, to protect our right to self governance, had they not we’d have been Governed by a German dominated administration of officials we’d have had no say in electing…… Er a bit like the EU has become :?

FFS using a nursery rhyme that was common place, is not racist in intent, nor as I inadvertently did recently because it suited the moment, using an expression you’ve used for years, it’s at worse an error in judgement and at best a failure to notice the world has changed around you.

Never. I’m going to ride to my own Funeral.

Here’s my hearse

I had one of those, it was an amazing step forward at the time I remember,it got me back climbing stuff I hadn’t managed to climb for years, ugly looking thing but rode really nicely, about the only bike that looks better with mudguards fitted.

It is indeed a shame folk feel like this and without winding the lefty boys up with more UKIP rhetoric it’s precisely why they’re growing.

I’d go the green route, as somebody said back there a lot of people died keeping the option to vote available to you and the greens generally have our best interests at heart even if they’re not very good at broadcasting the fact.

I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again, at the root cause of very problem in the world there’s a man with a beard.

Are they all racists, bigots, and idiots too ?

Proof if anything that the right don’t have the monopoly on stupidity.

binners – Member
I don’t think the IRA were ever trying to establish a Catholic Caliphate across the world. The fact they were catholic was incidental. The cause was entirely political

Whereas the beardy, shouty, explodey types are forcing their religious beliefs on the world. There is no political agenda more nuanced than that. So the only thing they’ve got in common is a liking for balaclavas, and Kalashnikovs and big bangs (though one group has at least got the sense to stand well back from them)

Perhaps if the Muslamics had the odd pint of Guiness and listened to some fiddle-de-dee music from time to time, they’d be a bit less mental?
:lol: and I had a mouthful of tea hovering over the keyboard…

Oh no, that can’t make Bob feel much better, their world is just awash with drugs, I’ve got girls her age I know how I’d feel had it been one of mine, a terrible tragedy.

Interesting post by kennyP, traditionally right and left could be split between the haves and have nots, the have nots are then split by being comforted by either religion (easier for the camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter heaven)or political ideology, hence the first thing the left needed to do was remove religion from the equation to boost their power base.

As to the intelligence level of either side, you tend to find, other than the inherited wealth, that the rich are single minded in the accumulation of wealth, rather than intelligent per se (having spent a lifetime wondering why I’ve never become truly rich.) I also feel that left wing views are the province of the young and that experience garnered over the years brings on cynicism.

But my point remains true, in actual fact the left have been just as disenfranchised in recent years as the right by the current batch of consensual career politicians on all sides, and it is they rather than folk like me you can blame for the rise of UKIP, I’m just joining in the protest like everyone else who appears to have lost their reason. Maybe driven by a smidgin of anti EU angst derived from personal bitterness, but even when it comes to it, where that cross goes might still switch to the green box on the day, a pity they can’t give up hugging those trees long enough to get organised, they could be what the moderate progressive left are looking for and I’d be more than up for that.

chestrockwell – Member
This thread is great. Derek, proving what the minority of people think of UKIP and it’s members is actually true, by trying to argue they’re not. Classic.

I think you’ll find the majority is about to give y’all a rude awakening – hence lefty panic :lol:

All those years of the liberal leftish elite rubbing the noses of the right into multiculturalism, political correctness, not to mention EU corruption , ‘uman rights lawyers, and the general mis management of just about everything, coming home to roost and if you’re a true right winger, Cameron counts as part of that left wing.

That’s not saying I want any part of it, it’s just a commentary on the shape of things to come and not much anyone here can do about it, which I have found some amusement in pointing out.

It has been a good thread, nice to see the boys on their back foot for a change..

miketually – Member
derekfish: I notice nobodies interviewing Muslims on their position re Gay Marriage for instance…
I read things like this, and then I have a look…

I found this article in New Statesman magazine, written by a muslim, where he writes about his views on homosexuality.

In that column, he mentions an article from in the Guardian. I found it: Muslims in Britain have zero tolerance of homosexuality, says poll.

So, a ‘lefty’ newspaper ran a fairly clearly headlined article on Muslim views on homosexuality.

I then searched the Guardian website for “gay muslim”, which found a huge list of articles including “Derby Muslim denies gay hate crime charge”. A search for his name finds the articles about his trial and imprisonment.

So it turns out there’s quite a lot in the mainstream media about Muslims and their position on gay marriage.
So which political party were they linked to then?

Oh, politics not mentioned? I wonder what would have happened if they’d got the purple sign outside the mosque.

deadlydarcy – Member
Standard leftie dogma.
I’ve heard lots of dogma over the years, from either side of the argument, but I’ve never heard this. Which is unusual, given that you say it’s “standard”. Are you making stuff up again?

No, maybe you haven’t been around as long as me, or engaged in me too marketing or spin..

Don’t do this because you’ll appear to be that..

Lefties like nothing more than to reach for the intellectual high ground, they’re very good at it, they’re also very good at denigrating the right as thick, as you can see quite plainly above.

It’s a marketing, spin technique, like the Jedi Mind trick, only a very few of us can resist it. :wink:

Northwind – Member
derekfish – Member
or dare I even say it thick? Which as we have proved earlier on here is a crime which prevents you qualifying for a vote

You claimed that earlier, I asked you when anyone had said that, you ignored it. Asking again.

It’s all over the thread, being right wing means your thick, ergo we’d rather you didn’t vote because your wrong, er because you’re thick. You’re thick because you disagree with us, we’re intelligent you’re not.

So if you don’t want to appear thick, vote for us.. Standard leftie dogma.

Somebody back there called me thick or stupid or whatever even though i’ve explained my reasoning, but there is no reasoning with leftish dogma, never has been, they’re beyond help, ask Michael Foot.