The Only 4×4 I ever got stuck in was an Amarok, what caused it? Dead Flat ground a bit muddy by the side of a lake. A bitter disappointment that Amarok after ordering it two years prior to eventually picking it up (pardon the pun). It drove OK in a high lux kind of way, but Fuel consumption was the pits and the wing mirrors kept knocking themselves off and cost £250 just to replace the base unit.

bradley – Member
She left because the courts made her leave and since then she has said ‘it’s over’ etc. She did tell me on one occasion to ignore everything she does as she wants the children back in her care ASAP (she’s still supervised to prove she can cope without me, won’t allow me back into the children’s life unsupervised, which I understand).

The issue I have is on one hand she has told me she wants to work it out in the long run, still loves me and that we will work it out eventually. On the other, she has stated that what she told me was simply a lie to get me to do what she wanted (attend a specific psychiatric assessment in London down that there Harley street) and that it’s definitely over she doesn’t see a future for us ever again and she wants to concentrate on rebuilding her life.

Which story do I believe because one of them is a lie…

Badley, she’s probably just as crushed by all this as you, but she’s probably getting a lot of anti you feedback from her support group. Had she been my daughter regrettably I’d be giving her the same advice, stay away from you.
You have a veritable mountain to climb if you ever want either her trust or bless her the little girl, think how she must be feeling now, in her mind she may be thinking it’s her fault she made you mad and now the family have broken up because of her.

You all need help, there must be some support body you could collectively go to, I’m not aware enough about the various services available, you must look into it.

I can only commiserate with you on what is a terrible disaster, which I truly hope was as you say an accident.

Edukator – Troll
At least three on your cool list have permanent bans, Derek.

Oh dear I’m sorry to hear about that, care to share who? I know some of the ones I had on the ‘other’ list are no longer here and frankly I’m not surprised, not that I agree with banning folk just because of their opinion, but a couple of them used to just dominate everything, I think the list was made just before the ‘purges’ they’re not here anymore, not that I’ve noticed of late, but then I tend to have long periods away.

As an aside I remember you from back then and can’t believe you were left off the cool list, but then your suffix might have part of the explanation if you were on a temporary forced ‘vacation’ :wink:

Oh and ‘cool’ as abused a term as ever there was, but cool is very much in the eye of the beholder.

bradley – Member
She’s living with her aunty and uncle in a place where she has no friends nor knows anyone…I doubt she’s on the scene again already.

Well that begs the question what the heck did you do/not do to force her into that decision?

hora – Member
I’d never ask for a engagement ring back. It just shows signs of bitterness. Rise above it.

+1 to this advice.

Sounds like you’re still upset, either fight to get her back or move on, if she’s moved out she’s probably got someone else in mind so you’d better steel yourself for the inevitable.

traildog – Member
It’s important that you stay as amicable as possible with her.

I am going through a similar thing. 7 Years also, and not always the easiest 7 years, but I stayed loyal and faithful and loved her through it all.

I am seeing it as I love her and if it’s the best then so be it. But it’s not easy by any means.

Everyone deals with it differently I guess. But keep calm, stay close with your friends and try not to get into bitter fighting.
+1 on this as well, if they are your kids you need to try and stay as cool with it as possible and accept she’s done with you, but that doesn’t mean if you can get over the upset that you lose touch with your kids.

Corny crap expression, but.. If you love some(one/thing) set it free if the love is mutual it/she’ll return if it/she doesn’t then how is imprisoning it/her a means of expressing love?

I made a list once, some while ago now when I was trying to figure who everyone was and my memory is crap and this place was very busy with lots of different posters..

This was the lot that I thought were OK & Cool and wouldn’t mind riding/having a beer with..

aracer
bullheart
jedi
tron
burt
don simon
tops 5
hora
philconsequence
binners
bimbler
scaredypants
barnsleymitch
The Southern Yeti
Flow
ton
toys19
GrahamS
Mcboo
samuri
Pigface
Harry_the_Spider
Camo16
CaptainFlasheart
bagpuss72
shibboleth
bikebuoy
ernielynch
zulueleven
smell it
van cough cough
waderider
M6ttf
allthepies
pyro

Some of them don’t seem to post much any more, don’t be insulted if you’re not on it, it was as I said about three years ago. I like all of you in one way or another annoying, humorous or just plane pedant I tend to agree with the OP, all human life is here..

Not wanting to necessarily turn another thread into ‘it was better back in the sixties’ but..

Had you been born back then, as a kid in the boy scouts as lots of us were, you’d have done all this and probably by the time you were fifteen. Bivouac used to mean making it out of natural stuff like branches and ferns, no tent allowed, it was a special hike for some woodsman’s badge I can’t remember the name of, sleeping bags were pretty crude affairs by todays standards but you were allowed to pack a ground sheet. What you eat you had to catch (usually fish, but some resourceful lads trapped rabbits with those wire loop things). You had a sheath knife the size of which would have you locked up today, and a hand axe, all on your belt and you had to wear those stupid wide brimmed scout hats and keep them in good order for inspection on your return. The hike had to be ten miles or 25 using bicycles. Water you carried or blagged off a local farmer, fires you could use a limited number of swan vestas, I seem to recall the fire lighter test involved no more than three matches, you’d have learned this skill (including running the match through your hair to keep it burning)and others under canvass before you did this Bivouac test.

All as I said before as a sub fifteen year old lad, can you imagine mummies of today letting their little darlings off on an adventure like that? Kind of puts what you’re up to into perspective a bit as well, but then it was utopia back then, no time for ‘hand wringing’ :wink:

You’ll need to check this thread I haven’t quite finished my new book ‘hand wringers guide to the galaxy’ but this will prompt me to create a special chapter.. :wink:

Both CRC & Wiggle tried Snowboarding unfortunately it coincided with bad weather years and the Snowboard market was on the slide (pardon the pun) and generally in a period of consolidation back then.

There are lots of opportunities for a web operation like Wiggle, they’re trying to woo brands back that have been bitten by CRC’s global discount operation which screws a brands international relations.

However right now the currency is back on the march, that will slow down all overseas web traffic from UK sites, unless like CRC they can amp up their own brands.

I still think it would be worth an in – out punt on the offer, most of the ‘analysts’ won’t have spotted what’s going on in the bike business nor will they for a while so it’ll get well subscribed imv.

30% Growth recently, 120 Road bikes built & sold a day, I would have thought it’s worth a punt, then again they’res an even better offer.. Saga

You should check out the T5 Rockton, there’s a guy asking about one for Forestry WorkHere

Not cheap but it would handle site work.

They’re a better drive than most PickUps I’ve owned and I’ve had or rented the Hilux,the l200, a Chevy version of the Isuzu and I had an Amarok for a while which I wasn’t that keen on, I’m back in a T5 now, I get 5-600 miles out of a sub 100 quid fill up, it was a panel van but I had a kombi conversion and wonder why I ever left.

Cougar – Moderator
Your argument appears to be that in your glory days

Not my ‘glory’ days, if such a period existed, for me it was probably the eighties, no back then I was just another abuse victim that dealt with it the way we all used to, by laughing it off, luckily no penetration in my case, just the usual hand up the shorts trouser leg by one of the Scoutmasters.

Drac – Moderator
So the moral is she should have kept quiet and not gone to the papers, because if we don’t know about or talk about it the world is better off. Yeah I’m glad I didn’t grow up in the sixties then.

No, not at all, I’d been making the point that it just wouldn’t have happened to a Blind Woman in the cities/early sixties there was a code of honour even amongst thieves and thugs and acceptable level to what was and wasn’t ‘done’. The rest was highlighting the probability of why there are so many latter day abuse scandals, I won’t say it was common place but I guess kids were more streetwise as to the likelihood of being fiddled with by nonses, unless you were unlucky enough to have been in boarding school where likely you’d have been buggered senseless. It’s also the reason for scepticism about Yewtree, why didn’t all those women complain at the time, it’s not as if nothing would have been done about it, the reason they didn’t was because of the ‘shame’ factor and the no win scenario of an embarrassing court case, at least these days there is good or bad, the compensation carrot.

mikewsmith – Member
so in summary, the world you call perfect was full of peodophiles, everything was fine if you hid anything that made you different and nothing was wrong as nobody reported it, even if you did the media wouldn’t make a fuss and not bother reporting it nationally.

What a wonderful time.

Yep, I guess that about sums it up. What you didn’t know couldn’t hurt you..
and of course folk were too polite to talk about anything involving the ‘s’ word, but when all things were said and done, a lot safer place for a blind woman and her dog to go for a walk.

There were plenty of perverts and kiddy fiddlers caught and punished then as I dare say there are now, difference was they’d get a beating on the way to and once in jail, the relevant question is why nobody cried rape at the time. Particularly in cases of high volume. Savile was well known as a perv, nobody liked him, he was protected by the same sort of shield many high level police and judge paedophile rings operated, probably sill operate, have we even discussed free masonry? It was all too powerful back then. So was the homosexual protection network, which like it or not and it may offend modern sensibilities but it was a source of male child abuse.

Girls had no place being left alone in the company of the likes of Hall, Gilter and Savile, but you have to question where were the parents? It wasn’t like now, hordes of single parent or irresponsible types that didn’t care, the family unit was still pretty strong, so what were those girls doing in the various dressing rooms? Were they idiots? Every kid new the risks of the dodgy type that wants you to sit on his lap, it wasn’t any different then from that respect. But as I said, there wasn’t the financial inducement to cry rape and for some there was an element of fun about it who’d ‘had’ which celeb..

muggomagic – Member
Sexual attitudes were very very different to the way they are now, particularly with the young, hence all these poor old sods getting pulled for it now.
Wow

Don’t go jumping to conclusions and go getting me wrong, I have four daughters myself and if one of those nonses had touched one of them I’d have swung for it, but it’s the attitude I’m trying to illustrate.

Google’ Blind Faith Album cover’ you’ll find an album sleeve picturing a topless pre pubescent girl, these girls were quite literally throwing themselves 13-14 yrs old at the pop stars and celebrities of the period, nothing was said.

I’m frankly surprised the yew tree investigation hasn’t reeled in hundreds of sixties and seventies rock stars, how Mick Jagger is still walking around free is beyond me..

piemonster – Member
Better go google assault on blind women in the fifties
Googling racism and LGBT assaults brings up a lot of results, do they count?

But yes, it seems a lovely place to live. So long as you know your place, and are white, straight, and ideally male.

And middle to upper class, you forget, the class system was still very prevalent back then.

As to straight v not, it just wasn’t on the Agenda, sexuality never really got discussed folk kept it to themselves in my part of the world, hence why there was such a liberalisation in the late sixties and early seventies when it was pretty much anything goes.

You couldn’t stay in a B&B unless you were married, two gay guys back then would have more chance (except they wouldn’t be advertising the fact). It quite literally all changed in 1967-8 as the birth pill came on the scene there was then unbridled activity until around ’83 I guess it was when AIDS first appeared over here.

Sexual attitudes were very very different to the way they are now, particularly with the young, hence all these poor old sods getting pulled for it now. Well that and a lack of com-pen-say-shun and ambulance chasing lawyers getting rich from persuading old women that they were victims instead of the groupies some of them were.

muddydwarf – Member
I do know that poem very well thank you, and i know very well that it wasn’t written to offer support to fascists or sectarian bigots no matter how you try to spin it.
Either you are trolling or you really are an apologists for such scum; either way you are a deeply unpleasant individual and i make no apology for saying such.
Actually, people like you turn my stomach.

I’m neither trolling nor acting as an apologist, I’m merely pointing out that had it not been for the actions supported by people like you,on the left, that we wouldn’t be facing all this and have been all along if you’d taken the trouble read my posts more carefully.

People like you throwing around ‘racist’ insults and attempting to label anyone with a view point different to you own as ‘scum’ or suggest they ‘turn your stomach’ is exactly why the silent types are turning inexorably to the right.

You don’t know me, you’ve formed a stupid opinion born of what you think or want to think of what’s written in my posts without exactly studying the content, I suggest you read it again and act in a less ignorant and unpleasant manner.

Drac – Moderator
Ah so as it wasn’t reported it never happened.

Exactly. I expect that was a contributory factor more often than not..

Priests could never be accused of sexual molestation of small boys, nobody would want to read that in the paper now would they?

Expectations were different back then, and I hate to say it folk were happier ‘in their place’ to use a bad expression. There was no TV, mobile phones, mass communication and the news media was more rigorously controlled. I recall as a cub journo, not even being allowed a camera near the court steps and being hauled over the coals for even the most basic presumption if not backed by facts and a notebook.

There was a lot wrong in the world also, can’t deny that, but a lot of the time out of sight out of mind lead to a more contented populace. I recall trying to uncover a wages scandal in which our town council were colluding with big London Insurance companies to fix the wages low, thus saving their own wage bill, the story never saw the light of day, our own newspaper owner also saw the benefit of a lower local wage structure and we had to eat it or lose our jobs even though we ran quite a tight closed shop union member only office, but it was a battle even the Union didn’t want to fight.

Quite what that’s got to do with blind people I don’t know, sorry, I’ve wandered off on one again..

Ha, just had a thought, had the blind woman been assault by the newspaper owners son, would that have even made the news? Probably not, not that I think it would have happened, there was just a different code of acceptable behaviour at every level..

muddydwarf – Member
A denigration of a PARTICULARLY odious group of claimed ex service personnel. I am fairly sure this bunch of unrepentant fascists & sectarian bigots are extremely unrepresentative of HM armed forces & do not represent Tommy Atkins in any way, shape or form.
It says more about you Derek that you attempt to shoehorn that poem & its meaning into the political stance of such vile people than it does about the armed forces.

“Particularly odious” &”Vile People” is a point of view, precisely illustrated by that poem, it’s the standard viewpoint of the hand wringer until such times as said hand ringers own life is in danger, then suddenly the “odious and vile people” are sent forward to face the cause.

You should read the poem in its entirety, it was written around the last time we were losing men in Afghanistan and when they returned just left to their own devices.

Here, have a read

“Tommy”
Rudyard Kipling

I went into a public-‘ouse to get a pint o’ beer,
The publican ‘e up an’ sez, “We serve no red-coats here.”
The girls be’ind the bar they laughed an’ giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an’ to myself sez I:
O it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, go away”;
But it’s “Thank you, Mister Atkins”, when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it’s “Thank you, Mister Atkins”, when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but ‘adn’t none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-‘alls,
But when it comes to fightin’, Lord! they’ll shove me in the stalls!
For it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, wait outside”;
But it’s “Special train for Atkins” when the trooper’s on the tide,
The troopship’s on the tide, my boys, the troopship’s on the tide,
O it’s “Special train for Atkins” when the trooper’s on the tide.

Yes, makin’ mock o’ uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an’ they’re starvation cheap;
An’ hustlin’ drunken soldiers when they’re goin’ large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin’ in full kit.
Then it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, ‘ow’s yer soul?”
But it’s “Thin red line of ‘eroes” when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it’s “Thin red line of ‘eroes” when the drums begin to roll.

We aren’t no thin red ‘eroes, nor we aren’t no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An’ if sometimes our conduck isn’t all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don’t grow into plaster saints;
While it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, fall be’ind”,
But it’s “Please to walk in front, sir”, when there’s trouble in the wind,
There’s trouble in the wind, my boys, there’s trouble in the wind,
O it’s “Please to walk in front, sir”, when there’s trouble in the wind.

You talk o’ better food for us, an’ schools, an’ fires, an’ all:
We’ll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don’t mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow’s Uniform is not the soldier-man’s disgrace.
For it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Chuck him out, the brute!”
But it’s “Saviour of ‘is country” when the guns begin to shoot;
An’ it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ anything you please;
An’ Tommy ain’t a bloomin’ fool — you bet that Tommy sees!

Well given the fact none of you lived through the period and I did and this is the first I’ve heard of intimidation of a blind woman, I’m afraid as usual your perceptions are as warped as normal.

Better go google assault on blind women in the fifties, see what you come up with, we didn’t have rolling 24/7 news media back then, so life did seem less threatening and having recently survived extinction at the hands of a genuine oppressor there was no need for the media to be manipulated by a lame left wing Government (Blair)to create a climate of fear.

Racism? I don’t think I even came across the word til much later in life, but then large tracts of the country had nobody other than caucasians living together, the whipping boys back then as I recall were probably the Irish, not that we had any of them round us.

On the buses, men got up for women, even us kids used to have to mind our p’s and q’s, open doors for ladies get up when a grown up entered the room, low level politeness and good manners which as we all knew, cost nothing.

You wouldn’t know unless you experienced it, but trust me it was generally better then than now and I wouldn’t swap having lived my life through that period to be young today and put up with this crap. (Including listening to half the bollox some of you lot spout from time to time).. :wink:

mikewsmith – Member
Yep I agree with Al’s sarcasm in that one.

Derekfish, what rose tinted decade are we talking about?

The fifties and sixties were my teen years, which included Teds and Razors and my mates girl getting her face slashed with one, knife fights galore in the Mods & Rockers period, plus the usual drugs of the era, bikes, blagging and general stupidity of feral youth, but no, no-one would attack a blind person, not then, everyone would turn on them and they’d have had the living shit kicked out of them.

ernie_lynch – Member
Reminds me of that Rudyard Kipling rhyme “Tommy this and Tommy that, chuck him out the brute
But it’s ‘Saviour of his country’ when the guns begin to shoot.”
Well it shows how strange you are. I can’t see any connection

You can’t see any connection between that rhyme and the denigration of a group of ex servicemen?

Maybe I read it wrong. While no great fans of UKIP, Britain First has hundreds of ex-British Forces

no, I didn’t read it wrong.

Whilst I don’t agree with them and I’m fairly sure poor Nigel would be horrified at any association with them, just as I’m sure you would be equally as horrified by association with the Left Wing thugs, it doesn’t make the rhyme any less pertinent.

hora – Member
Phew thought it wasa topic about me

:lol: Hah, snap!

Klunk – Member
Ol’ farage doesn’t half attract some unsavory characters !

BRITAIN FIRST STATEMENT r.e. UKIP:
BRITAIN FIRST TO DEPLOY ARMOURED PATROL VEHICLES AND EX-MILITARY VOLUNTEERS TO PROTECT UKIP LEADER NIGEL FARAGE
We are sickened by the far-left attempts to stifle democracy by attacking UKIP leader Nigel Farage.
Britain First is indeed a rival patriotic party to UKIP, but we are all patriots together and UKIP may be well presented in nice suits but as recent attacks show, they cannot protect Mr Farage from the leftwing thugs who seem intent in intimidating him and perverting the democratic process.
While no great fans of UKIP, Britain First has hundreds of ex-British Forces street activists and several armoured ex-army Land Rovers and we now put our men and our resources at UKIP’s disposal during the period of election campaigning.
We shall continue to fight UKIP for votes at the ballot but we will not allow fellow patriots to be bullied off our streets by un-elected thugs who do not even stand for election themselves.
We forced the bully boys of the Muslim patrols off the streets of east London and we shall deploy our units to ensure that UKIP have the right to campaign free from attacks by leftwing hooligans.
Today we put principles and country above politics, maybe others will follow suit.
END

Reminds me of that Rudyard Kipling rhyme “Tommy this and Tommy that, chuck him out the brute
But it’s ‘Saviour of his country’ when the guns begin to shoot.”

Junkyard – lazarus
I think even UKIP would accept I am beyond their help
I have been disappointed they have not knocked on my door to get my vote.

<UKIPvoice>Well allow me, it’s not too late young chap and the road to Damascas is very long, think of all the things we can do for you, stopping all those nasty immigrants coming here and taking your jobs, well not your job you’re a teacher aren’t you? We do so hope you’re not filling the heads of young minds with Pillars of IslamSalt. If we get into power we’ll give you the freedom to thrashteach some sense into our youth. Just give us your address, we’ll send someone round. :wink: </UKIPvoice>

Junkyard – lazarus
Gone are good manners, politeness as a matter of course, modesty, self control, respect for others and their views with restraint.

You are an example to us all, especially the lefties, in this respect
Brilliant

Why thank you junkie, nice to have my qualities noted, not that my modesty would normally have me acknowledge such praise, but coming from a big hitter such as yourself, I feel honoured.

<UKIPVoice>It’s not too late son we can still help you</UKIPvoice>

Wasn’t Nigel great last night? Classic moment right at the end, the rest had been arguing about the Government and its ability to intervene in the Pfizer acquisition and only Nigel made the point whilst illustrating the lies from LabConLibDem..

Honestly how depraved has bloody society become, even in my darkest times, hanging out with the very worse kids in the neighbourhood getting up to all the sorts of things scallies got up to back then, mugging a blind person and a woman at that?

They’d have had their balls cut off..

Political correctness if I’m not mistaken is just another US import, to go with litigation, MTV, Fast Food and all other wonders of modern existence.

Gone are good manners, politeness as a matter of course, modesty, self control, respect for others and their views with restraint.

They didn’t, the only thing they can beat me to is the bloody TV zapper thing, in all other speed related items I remain supreme leader.

Oh other than emptying my wallet if I leave it laying around.

I must have missed something during a period of absence and lost log in here, but could somebody explain a zombie maggot to me?

Surely an undead maggot becomes a Fly? Equally a pest but then I’m told there are no flies on Nigel. :twisted:

Er dare I ask if it was delivered by latvians?

Ridiculous, kill someone and get months, get found out you touched up some groupie girls or botched being a svengali and you go down for 8 years..

What is going on?

LHS – Member
she now drives a Mercedes
How is that a measure of success or wealth?

She’s not yet 25, took me until 50 for my first Mercedes, they’re neither cheap to buy, rent or insure and have always been a status symbol, particularly amongst her (and my)peer group.

mboy – Member
Like I said… its pretty radical stuff. I didn’t say it was easy. It might take a while for people to get their heads around it. Getting jobs when you leave school at 16. But desperate situations require pretty drastic measures
I’ll lead you back to your own comments on unemployment… Of which the largest sector is unskilled/uneducated 16-24 year olds!!!

There are just about ZERO prospects for most kids leaving school without any real qualifications these days, or that is at least how it is portrayed. Certainly you don’t have the wealth of apprenticeships you had in decades gone by, or the trades to go into. If this blokes kids left school the only wage they would likely be able to contribute for a while would be dole money!

Society these days almost dictates that you need a degree to flip burgers. Well ok that is being over the top, but part of Blair’s goal for Britain was to get as many kids as possible through a university degree. Which of course only devalued the education system and drove the cost of doing a degree through the roof, rendering everything pointless!

I’m interested to know too why you think someone should have to be so damned to a life so ordinary too. Ok, I’ve got little sympathy for the guy in the original article when he’s paying £45k a year on school fees (he could save 2/3rds of that and still put them through private education elsewhere if he needed to!) but if you want the best for your kids you’ll go out of the way to help them out surely?

Interesting post, to which I’d like to counter with a couple of personal examples, having experienced a similar hiatus in my life, not that I ever cleared 120k p.a.. However I was forced by circumstance to pull my youngest out of private education at 16 because we couldn’t afford it, she was also the laziest academically of all of ours and never had a part time job, she did however fortunately have an interest in cooking which has not only saved her ass but elevated her to the highest paid 17 yr old that has ever passed through Fish towers thanks to a Chef course and part time job as a Commie then Sous Chef.
Another example is of my third daughters best pal who took up hair dressing rather than accompany mine into UNI, she now drives a Mercedes, whilst mine is still sofa surfing in town unable to afford rent in order to work in London the only place in the country to offer work for her qualifications.

So not entirely true the zero prospects, what is true is the failure of the promise that a University Education would deliver, the absolute scandal that those encouraged into the path with its subsequent debt burden have suffered and with it a sense of entitlement that makes it difficult for them to consider the ‘lowly paths’ of the hairdresser, cooks & bottle washers and other trades.

ebygomm – Member
On a somewhat related note, is there anywhere round milton keynes where you can try out different wetsuits. I’m not keen on my current one but not sure if it’s just wetsuits in general i dislike swimming in or this one in particular.

Hmm not sure about Tri suits but there’s a wake place on Willen Water I think it is that sell wetsuits, wether they could organise it for you, google Wake MK, but there is a reluctance by shops to offer try ons even, given the rise of the internet and folk just trying on the suit then walking out to get the least cost internet supply solution once they find the model and size, some stores down the West Country have taken to charging to even try the suits on.

crankboy – Member
What I don’t get is why people of a certain persuasion bang on about the importance of Magna Carta but hate the European Charter of Human Rights one is a significant document that protects the special interests of a limited group of Norman French Aristocrats and their Feudal Retainers the “Freemen”, the other a document drawn up largely be the British to protect the fundamental rights and liberties of everyone. One was drawn up under duress, reneged upon almost immediately and now is 98% revoked and of little relevance, the other is in full force, internationally agreed and approved by consent and is a global bench mark.

One can see that outside of the study of early English History or constitutional law, Magna Carta is not a big deal one can see why in our country as it is today children would be aware of the central principles of a religion followed by a significant minority of the population .

Good video Ninfan but I am really not sure that they are joking about the Holocaust more that they are celebrating their Grandfathers survival .

Good point, well made and I entirely concur, but would still rather my kids were taught this sort of relevant info than the hours wasted as previously described.
Then maybe a serious discussion could be had by all regarding the issues that have given rise to xenophobic support that we currently see growing.

boxelder – Member
gallows humour
Facing death are you?

We’re all facing death chap, some of us are just a bit closer to it than others.. :wink:

Have you checked yours lately?

ernie_lynch – Member
Now that’s done it, derekfish will be upset by the ridicule of his leader and will be forced to make a tasteless joke about gassing STW people who disagree with him and we’ll all have to wring our hands, report his post and flounce off whining..

ftfy