Different proposals? Show us the new detail then that has suddenly changed this from a pipedream to a valid business idea.

Poor analogy about west coast ferries – people rely on them to survive. a bloody chairlift is not necessary for survival

Very roughly – if you averaged 35 riders a day (based on pure guesswork but not unrealistic imo)

As i said earlier, until you have current, accurate market research that can reasonably predict actual numbers that are not based on finger-in-the-air calculations nobody will touch this with a barge pole.

its nothing to do with a “can’t do” attitude (but i’m sure STW will thank you for the moniker) its all to do with commercial risk.

Personally i feel that these folk who expect it to be done just because someone created a facebook page about it are a little naieve – full of good intentions but nobody is putting their money where their mouth is for a reason. If it was a valid commercial idea it would be running by now and making lots of money for the investors. The idea has been around long enough and i think that speaks volumes.

edit –

back to the question earlier then – how do the scottish ski resorts manage to run? They are busy for incredably short seasons

exactly – incredibly short seasons, people are willing to pay for scottish skiing because when its good its good and its local. but if we had year round cover do you think these same skiers would return every weekend spanking 35 quid a pop? I dont think so…

313 racers turned up at Inners last month: http://www.sda-races.com/sda/event.asp?EventID=54

but the reality is you’d be asking those 313 racers to come to inners every weekend to help make it viable. the other thing is they were all there for a race, would those 313 return irresepective of where the next round of the SDA was? i doubt it i’m afraid.

Bob, Guy Wedderburn is an old FC croney and we know how nebulous those relationships can be so its no surprise money had made its way towards his project.

I think the central problem was summed up nicely earlier by Crikey:

Until there are actual figures and actual costs, its a vanity project for about 350 downhillers, I’m afraid

You can hypothesise about only “needing” 14 riders per day @ 30 quid each but the bottom line is that even with those very moderate figures, on wet crappy days in November you will not consistently find those 14 riders! Even if 60 people turn up on a particularly good saturday that doesn’t cover the weeks expenses, but you’ll be asking the same people to come back again next weekend. and the next. and the next.
Even if you can find some day visitors on a good day they wont turn round on a crap tuesday and say “i know! Lets go up the chairlift to see bugger all at minch moor”

Its all irrelevant anyway until you know how much it will cost and have done accurate, relevant and realistic market research.

I’m starting to sound like a broken record so i’ll shut up now 🙂

next time it could be a balloon’s smiley face.

what about the kidnap victim in the boot btw?

Does anyone know how much it costs to staff and maintain a chairlift once you’re beyond the initial outlay? Surely it can be done for £300k and still have something left for either repaying loans for the initial outlay or ongoing trail maintenance.

I dont have a scooby doo how much it would cost, but i suspect 300k wouldn’t go very far as TJ says loan repayments, staff, infrastructure and grounds / trail maintenance etc.

I think the fundamental issue is that there was a golden opportunity for private investors to make this happen prior to the economic collapse and nobody did it. That tells me that the private sector was not interested or it wasn’t worth their while. If the private sector couldn’t make it fly i doubt a community based enterprise will, especially given the economic outlook.

I’m not knocking them for trying and you have to respect their desire for it to happen, but just because lots of people think its a good idea doesn’t automatically make it a successful business opportunity.

Part of my point earlier was that its fine having estimated numbers (and the CV numbers are estimates, but we did publish the methodology used, and we didn’t include every tom dick and harry who came through the forest gate :)) but you have to make a commercial decision based on an assumption that that 10,000 visitors would pay 30 quid every time for uplift (for example).

I’ll bet if you canvasased the nevis range the number of repeat visitors is probably quite low. This means you have to have something to attract new visitors all the time to help keep the flow of money coming in. DH is a niche within a niche sport so uplift doesn’t appeal to most people tbh.

Plus, when it came down to brass tacks there are loads of people out there who will be sitting saying “i’d happily pay 30 quid 20 times a year for uplift DH” but the reality is they wouldn’t put their hand in their pocket more than two or three visits.

Its just too much of a commercial risk IMO.

personally i wish them luck but my experience of anyone judging visitor numbers is its tricky at best and its easy to make a complete balls up of it. look at the GT visitor numbers (not to mention the much maligned Glentress Peel centre). Even their revised figure of 385k visitors a year is rubbish. an average of more than 1000 visitors a day? really?

source

this data is now 3 years old too and i’ll bet the economy has not helped boost visitor numbers.

what i’m saying is its easy to make “predictions” and estimate traffic, but they have to be realitsic if they want to convert these estimated figures into paying customers. In this economic climate people wont be spending 20 weekends a year downhilling with uplift, certainly not in the volumes that would make a 5 million pound chairlift viable.

i’m going to the o2 store on Friday morning and expect a queue of people.

11 here and i can honestly say i guessed about 50% of them. I think this proves that any successful new citizens are either smarter than we are or can memorise lots of mundane, useless facts with no understanding of them from a book.

i notice nobody has scored top marks yet either.

Thanks Graham + Grum, will take a look at those this afternoon while working™

Cheers

interesting thread so i hope this minor hijack wont deviate things.

can anyone recommend some good websites / reading for an absolute novice to learn the fundamentals of composing and taking good shots? i have zero camera experience apart from taking pish shots with compacts and iphones and the like. I would like to find out more about how to take good pictures with a possible view to buying my own camera eventually.

TIA

David

XT +1 – I’ve not used them *that* much but completely fit and forget so far with no maint for almost 2 years.

also used clarks pads with them on a 4 day trip round torridon ( that place eats pads for breakfast) and didn’t even use a full set where others wore out 2+ sets.

I’d love to attribute that to my lack of need for brakes or setup, but i fundamentally believe the pads retract further or have more clearance because i just didn’t use anywhere near the pad material that everyone else riding the same trail did.

they are reliable and powerful. doub’t i’d go back to Avids having had these

this was the place i was thinking of for east coast – would be a brilliant location for a home. unfortunately website is dead so no idea if its up and running again.

@laraichean – lovely place!

tbh though when you say secluded and crofting i instinctively think north west coast or the islands.

However, there was a lovely wee row of seaside cottages right on a clifftop near st cyrus, just north of montrose on the east coast. It was easily accessible but sadly i think they are no longer in business.

Found this place whilst looking though and it looks nice :

http://www.icehousestcyrus.co.uk/image-gallery

because the DoD pay about a million dollars for each one probably?

everyone i’ve spoken to who has one rates them – very useful for big days in the hills where there are short downhill sections with climbs in between. Where they earn their money is the bits where it would be nice to lower the saddle but its too fiddly to bother for a short section.

travel agent maybe? they will probably have cheap deals coming out of their ears in this climate. (NPI)

drank from mountain streams in Scotland for many years and never once had the trots.

i know this is largely irrelevant but so is asking for medical diagnosis on a bike forum, so we’re all square i think.

my 5:10’s are a few years old now and are my only shoes

pros:

foot grip is unparalleled on rock, even wet slippy stuff
grip on a platform pedal is superb, drop your foot on a pedal and it sticks like glue.
comfy
stealth sole is durable, mine still going stong years later. build quality generally is good with seams etc on mine still intact.

cons:
soak up water like a sponge and take ages to dry
heavy, heavier when wet
sole is really slippy on wet grass
cardboard liner on the sole was a fail, ripped it out though and just use the insole.

hora just admit ffs that you are fat and unfit, sugar crash, hypotonic, the list is endless?? fat unfit bastard more like

<catchphrase> Say what you see now </catchphrase>

Hey,

I get your thinking on that. The only thing i’d say is that “race” pace and a ride with your mates are different – you naturally get caught up in the atmosphere and go harder than you would if it was just a ride. Thats where the fitness and stamina come in though as you can go faster for longer.

Technically TDBN wasn’t difficult, so its only time thats against you. I’m carrying a lot of holiday* weight and managed 6:18 which put me just outside the top 100. The slowest finished was c.9 hours so at 7-8 hours you’ll still be right in the middle of the field. Dont let it get to you though about the time, ride it, experience it and enjoy it then work out where you could improve. I bet a lot of fast riders made mistakes that cost them time but thats racing – anything could happen. In fact the fastest finisher was out of the running after missing a stage dibber so dont rule out a good performance before you start 🙂

*magaluf 14 years ago i think it started. before any of my smart arse mates jump in. 🙂

i wouldn’t worry too much about which route you take, more riding will mean better fitness and that can only be a positive thing.

i guess i’m the only one who glanced at the thread title and misread it then 🙂

Hi,

Yeah thats the one, i was suffering real bad with cramp at the time and i think you were too. one leg in front of the other stuff there 🙂

Good once you’ve done it though and theres always scope for improvement!

60p herb jar broke a ceramic hob?

I’ll bayleaf that when i see it.

i have personal experience of hero manouveres involving single malt(s)before a big bike ride and let me tell you its neither big nor clever the next day.

or the day after…

also over did the carbo loading till 3am on friday night, and struggled my way around it with a banging head ache and dehydration. The cramp kick in just before the river crossing and moral dropped as I was not looking forward to cramping for the rest of it

think i may have been chatting to you over stage 3 up the climb – was one of your mates a DNS because he didn’t make it out of bed?

everyone else i was speaking to was cramping chronically – myself included. never suffered it as badly as that though, it was torture.

great event though.

ps. massive respect for the 3.47 too but missing a stage dibber must have been crushing. 4th place (Dougal S) was in our group and he is astoundingly fit so god only knows how that guy eked out another half hour on those front runners.

One boat even started to sink.

We still had back-up plans

sorted.

i’d not bother collecting the X6 to be honest. hideous mobile – like someone put a skip on a rollerskate.

i want them to phone me now.

so much material, so little time.

cant believe the r18 is a diesel. i can see where you are coming from with the functional beauty thing though.

thats cool mate, i know who it was for 😉

not sure who makes it, but think its australian. does look like robocops track toy though

sorry about that. this looks badass

design influence for the panamera maybe?

do you think porsche will apologise for this hideous creation?

for me lambo is the manufacturer that has consistently made cars that look “super”

not necessarily great cars but they are styled to the max

public service announcement mate

i quite like the “go gettem” stance of it. looks like a car straining at the leash to be let loose.

sorry rob, modern eyes are glued in tonight and dont see the attraction. Beauty in the eye of the beholder etc though.

just googled TVR and there are some vented freaks out there:

but this is a beast:

saw one in the flesh in marbella, but heard it a long time before that 🙂

see the audi r8 looks lovely but not feeling the spyder. as a rule though i can’t love audi because most of them dont have the wow factor.

having said that the engine noise from this rs3 is epic – sounds like its inhaling the scenery

from 1 min in is the good bit 🙂