listen and learn

Brexiters or someone else?

Either way I’m happy to listen to their solutions to the problems created and how they intend to implement them.

If you mean learn why they were right, I’m not so convinced.

It’s true. Thankfully they’re all able to think about things beyond a schoolyard ‘who’s team are you on’ position and don’t just think about how things affect them personally. You should try it some time.

Not going for you directly so don’t feel I am but could you outline what you think is the way forward given that most Brexiters do seem to think it’s a team thing @we won you lost’ etc.

What should I do to get us on the same side?

Maybe someone called him a racist idiot because of the way he voted in a referendum about trade policy and legislative jurisdictions?

So you’re speculating that the cause of a racist attack was the fault of a remainer?

Also, we must mix in very different circles as I’ve not had anyone who supports Brexit tell me it was about trade policy and legislative jurisdictions.

I’ve heard about retaking the Commonwealth and ensuring that the wealth flows back to us again, the Navy being able to sink refugees dingies without the EU getting uppity about it, stopping the Muslims taking over, finally beating the Germans who’ve used the EU as a continuation of WW2, stopping foreigners stealing British jobs, to name but a few.

I am talking here about people I meet casually or overhear (in the pub – remember that?) and much of my extended family who are likely a bit more open with me that the general population NOT the people I choose to associate with.

Yeah the racist abuse of non-white and non-English colleagues at both Debs and my hospitals (we work for different Trusts) has both gone up over the past few years and there was a definite flare up in December.

In A and E on New Years Eve a fair few staff got grief, one Doctor being asked if he was finishing at midnight. When he asked why the patient said ‘ Cos that’s when you have to **** off home’.

Similarly people are much more open in sharing racist views, both patients and families, often thinking they’ve done the NHS a favour by getting rid of foreigners, and eager to let us know like they’re helping us out.

I often point out that we are struggling to maintain staffing numbers since our foreign staff have left but it seems to fall on deaf ears.

So you only believe in solidarity when everyone else does too? Don’t you see a flaw in that idea? I don’t think you really believe in it at all, in that case, if you’re prepared to abandon the cause so easily.

So you suggest I adopt their ways of thinking to be in solidarity with them?

That’s what I’m partially suggesting.

Self interest before anything else.

**** foreigners, **** the metropolitan elites etc.

I’d rather not show solidarity with that way of thinking though, thank you.

I’m not displaying a **** them attitude, I wish them no ill, but I don’t wish myself ill just to benefit them either.

Not true at all. A lot of people believed that the NHS would be getting more money, for example. This isn’t a selfish motive is it?

The ones I know (predominantly my, and my wife’s’, families) mainly believed the NHS would get more money because we could get rid of all the freeloading foreigners who were stealing healthcare they weren’t entitled to – on the grounds that they were foreigners and or non-white.

So yes, still a selfish motive.

This was despite evidence contrary to this that was freely available.

It seems rather odd that people would be in favour of solidarity and togetherness (i.e. the EU) but displaying such divisive behaviour at the same time.

I’ve traditionally been left leaning and believed in solidarity and togetherness and thought most other people in this country did; I was wrong as it seems 52% don’t believe in that at all.

I feel like I was swimming along in a co-ordinated shoal, a few apex predators around the edges, but working together we could look after each other and evade most of them.

Then I looked again and half the shoal have evolved into piranha, except they hadn’t. They were always piranha and it was my naivety and wishful thinking that portrayed them otherwise.

They have always just looked after number one and I need to evolve to survive – look after me and my own and let others sink or swim.

I didn’t make the rules and, for the time being at least, I’m stuck in this pond.

They didn’t, though. They voted to make the country better, or so they thought. They were manipulated.

They didn’t, though. They voted to make their own lot better, preferably at the expense of others they disliked (foreigners, leftie liberals etc.)

They lack compassion and will continue to try to improve their lot at the expense of others.

As previously stated I always believed in redistribution of wealth via taxation for the betterment of society.

But Brexit and the people who voted for it have highlighted that I’m an idiot who they’ll gladly take for a ride just out of spite.

I have to ask myself do I really want to impoverish myself to any extent on their behalf.

What if they wanted to tax you to benefit you and your family?

Then I would consider it.

So you’d vote based on what they promised in a campaign, rather than based on how they govern once they are in office? To be fair, millions do exactly this

No, it would be a combination of their stated aims and how they had done in the previous term.

If, in 4 years time, I’m doing ok by government policy I would consider voting for them over a party who wanted to tax me to benefit others.

Don’t look down on them or think you’re better, or give them any reason to suspect you might think that.

That reads as though you think that’s what we do.

We’re only nurses not the **** Rockefellers

Even with the way they are ‘running’ the country now?

How they are running it now is probably not in my best interests.
But it may be at the time of the election.

Previously I would have voted between all parties EXCEPT the Tories.

Now they get equal consideration from me so long as I get the best for me.

They’re proud of their work ethic and ability to stand on their own two feet without needing handouts. At least they were, and in many cases for various reasons we all know, they can no longer do that and they are incredibly resentful. Brexit plays to both their sense of independence, and their hatred of anything and anyone who looks like the handwringing liberal elite offering them handouts (The EU, Corbyn, woke lefties, southerners in general).

I dip in and out of this thread for a touch of light reading and usually don’t feel the need to comment.

However, this intrigues me as the aims of the authors of Britannia Unchained don’t seem that far removed form the people Dazh is describing.

I struggle to understand the mindset but if, truly, a removal of handouts and benefits combined with lifelong low paid employment (which is what they had in the past) for them and their kids is what they want then it’s no bad thing to give it to them.

I come from a mining family, I’m the first generation not to go down the pit straight from school, although many of my cousins did, and I’ve always been fiercely left wing prior to the referendum.

The way my, and my wifes, family react to us (she’s from Throckley, Newcastle) because we’ve not stayed in the area and went to get an education tags us firmly in the hand wringing lefties category. There are even people Debs went to school with who won’t talk to her because she left the village and married a non-geordie.

I have politically moved a long way right since 2016 and could not bring myself to vote in the last election.

Now I would always consider the direct benefits to me and my very direct family rather than society come elections and could see me considering my first ever Tory vote the next time if it benefits me – now that’s something I would never have thought I’d ever say.

Good luck with the store helping.

I bought a large item from Currys Huddersfield and picked it up in a van.

In order to park outside the store the van went over 2 bays (short bay,long vehicle) while we loaded in – 10 minutes tops.

Got a £90 fine.

Contacted the parking company who basically said ‘we’ve got a photo to prove it happened, not interested in why, don’t care’.

Went to speak to Manager at Currys who thought it was funny and said it was nothing to do with them.

He then went to tell his staff at the other end of the counter and they all had a chuckle.

So, if I’m reading this right, Brexit is now the fault of remainers for not working hard enough to convince leavers to vote remain?

Or a white care worker colleague who was asked where he was from.

‘Finland’ he says.

‘So when are you going back?’

@ tomd

Lucky you don’t work for the NHS then cos plenty of my non white colleagues got Brexit Eve abuse.

Hillfarmer reporting making £12k profit after a £44k grant.

So really a £32k loss before tax payers money props his business up.

Expected to get bigger bailout post Brexit.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/db2a28e2-c175-11e8-95b1-d36dfef1b89a

Edit: Link goes to subscriber page but it’s the 2nd hit Google for hill farm subsidiaries.

Government should not be propping up failing businesses.

If, for example, farms can’t be run profitably then they should fail and the farmer find another job they can do properly.

I’m sure the **** at the top will get exactly what they were aiming for at the expense of the **** at the bottom.

Nothing I can do, I lost and I’ve got over it.

Look after me and my close family best I can.

Up to everyone else to do the same.

If folk voted for Brexit then they should have a plan for surviving downsides if they appear.

If not then they will suffer but they only have themselves to blame.

Hopefully the benefits they are expecting will materialize and they’ll be fine.

So what are you saying? That daffy took the advantages his family gave him, used them for his own betterment and then failed to give anything back? That could be a metaphor for the whole country.

I think what he, and Daffy, were saying is that they all started in the same shithole, Daffy took some action and put in some effort that paid off; the rest of his family didn’t.

Therefore, in their minds, he’s a ****, and they voted for Brexit to try to get even with him for making a go of his life.

One day to apply?

Presumably there will be some kind of finding-out and decision-making period post application?

One day to decide to go on subs?

They were really pushy with my lad to get his answer in much the same way – I suspect it puts a tick in a box and a cross in others.

My son was offered a great deal by the Navy to go on the subs, including paying for his degree, straight after his A levels.

He was dissuaded quite robustly by a couple of serving submariners whilst on his first week who said that he was too young for it and he should give it a few years then come back if he still wanted it.

He’s now a paramedic in training and loving it.

Your son can accept at this stage and explore whether it’s what he really wants to do.

My advice would be to accept and then he can spend more time thinking about it; Zach had months of hoops to jump through before it got to that sign on the dotted line moment.

Worst case scenario is a year out which your son might need support with; my lad was convinced that he’d be totally left behind with the year out. Us a bit older know a year is **** all.

@ cromolyolly

I think my sons University Paramedic Course is fine; when he is fully qualified he will have spent 40 months in either the ambulances or health related units (he’s currently on a stroke unit learning something of that speciality) and 20 months in University being taught primarily by serving paramedics who share their time between teaching and practice.
The course was pretty much designed by EMAS to provide them with the paramedics they say they want and their involvement is active and relentless throughout training.

He’s in pretty much all the time, it’s not a 2 hours a day course.

I’m sending my support too.

We are in a similar boat, my dad has terminal lung cancer and my mum’s health is awful with 4 co-morbidities (diabetes, heart failure, kidney failure and chronic pancreatitis) .

He’s just postponed his chemo for a week so he can come to ours at Christmas (to be fair the last round did nothing, and the radical surgery to give him a short while longer has probably taken more months out of him in recovery than he’ll gain at the other end).

Just make sure to take care of yourself so you have the energy to help when needed.

Three year degree with time split between classroom learning and placements.

Classroom learning culminates in exams of different forms on a regular basis, which at his university have an 80% pass rate, and you’re off the course if you fail any twice. Plus you have to pass all your placements with signed evidence from the paramedics you work with in your portfolio.

Then he will spend 2 years employed on the ambulances before being finally and fully signed off.

Degree is the usual £9k per year job as other degrees plus his loans for living costs.

And a fair whack from us!!!

Good example. My uncle did his entire career as a paramedic. He didn’t need a degree and didn’t end up tens of thousands in debt as a prerequisite to getting his job.

Very good example as the health professions of all types (but most especially paramedics) has moved on quite a bit in the past 20 years.

The requirements now are very different from the time when I trained and the education and training more intensive and involved.

50 years ago they just had to carry folk on a stretcher to hospital but we ask a bit more of them these days, as we do nurses, OT’s, SALTs, Dieticians, Physios etc.

You can learn more in your free time in a few months on the internet than on most degrees.

Better pull my son out of his Paramedic Training then; he’ll be able to pick it up off Google pretty quickly.

I’m 54 next and am pessimistic about ever seeing a Labour government again in my lifetime.

I think that for a large number of people in the UK now the ideas on which Labour were formed are alien to them, and the number of such folk will only increase.

Hope I’m wrong but…..

The ones I feel sorry for are the UK farmers

The ones with all the Brexit and Vote Conservative signs in their fields?

You could remind her she’s not 6 years old and life isn’t a Disney film.

Was going to ask this as a new thread but appreciate that there are lots already on here about brexit.

So, I have no real understanding beyond the rudimentary of the mechanisms that control interest rates but are we likely to see them pushing up as a result of brexit?

There’s little we can do beyond looking after our own small bubble of friends and family.
We will have to see how the next few years pan out. I’m expecting a lot of pain and misery but hopeful that I’m wrong.
However, I intend to hope for the best and plan for the worst so am rationalising finances to best protect me and mine.
Have cancelled all unnecessary direct debits and now have a further £80 per month to absorb some possible cost implications of leaving.
5 years is a long time so ride the tide.

Well if Brexit is the calamitous, damaging shit show that the remainers claim it will be then Labour should walk the next election with the country in financial ruin

More likely is that another entity will be held up and vilified as responsible for Britain being unable to prosper.

I’m significantly richer than I was yesterday.

Me too.

Given that most of my constituency are convinced Brexit and the Conservatives are going to make Calderdale a wonderful place to live I have cancelled all my direct debits to local charities I’ve been supporting.

I personally think that things are going to get much worse so the cash needs to stay with the family.

Well that’s that then, I couldn’t watch, listen or read anything after the exit pole sank in. And we’ve still got Whittaker in Calder valley.
Irrespective we’ve got to try to help those who are struggling, do our best to stop any rolling back of environmental, social and workplace legislation, be an open community and be nice to folk. I guess we won’t be looking at electoral reform or an examination of the responsibility of the press for a while. I’m going to try to be nice to everyone. And consider moving home north of the border.

I’m afraid I have always been of your mindset but have, reluctantly, moved on.

If the people of Calder Valley want Tory and Brexit and it results in massive investment in health and social care then I will be happy for them.

If, as I suspect, we will see a worsening of life here then I will not be putting myself out to help the people who voted for it; from today forward I intend to follow their lead and look after number one, sod everyone else.

Craig Whittaker the mormon, child beater Tory MP for CalderValley did you say ?

And lives in Kirklees.

I’ve been waiting for this sort of comment. Shouldn’t we all be thankful that the EU is there to protect us and provide the things our own government tell us are unaffordable? Well that’s the problem. People quite rightly want and expect their own government to do these things. In many respects they see EU funding as charity. They don’t want charity, they want to stand on their own two feet*, and that’s why they voted for brexit.

It’s their houses that will be flooding; I live at the top of Rastrick so floods just mean it takes me longer to get to work.

Their own government has just rejected the EA funding applications so I wish them all the best come the winter storms and standing on their own two feet.

From that article above quoting the Mayor of Bristol “All I’ve been given is a grand total of £210,000 by Westminster for our Brexit preparations. How far do they think that will go when they say it should cover policing food riots, and compensating problems Brexit causes for business, transport or anything else?”

Policing food riots? So this is expected as an acceptable part of Brexit?