Do you think I don’t want to see the truely needy in society, get help.
Not the kind of help where they claim DLA for 10 years.
But the kind of help that sees them obtain employment.

Will likely need the second coming of christ to facilitate people with physical and learning disabilities becoming able bodied, employable and mobile enough to move off DLA.

Yet you only ever choose to voice one?

Are you totally ignorant of most things?

Errr right. He works in an industry where they don’t sit in a 80’s office in Slough you know.

Again someone I can agree with. Mining/steelworks/shipbuilding etc.didn’t get significantly safer with unionisation, did they?

I’m with PeterPoddy on this one in many ways, I think all industries should be made to be as dangerous as possible for the workers in order to ensure that profits can be maximised.

I’d even go further, I’d get rid of sick pay and holidays as well, ban being able to sue your employer for negligence and, once again, allow provision of your home to be at the discretion of the employer – allowing him to make you and your loved ones homeless if you step out of line, fall ill or maybe just on a whim.

What about being paid in company currency so that you cannot buy freely but have to buy goods at the company owned store at inflated prices.

Aye, just get rid of all those benefits that employers were freely handing out to the working classess.

I reckon it was just a coincidence that unions were developing and exercising their power at the same time.

Yes ski, I remember them, the patented Raleigh ‘black and blue balls shifter’.

Some other stuff here

http://www.medlink.com/medlinkcontent.asp

And found Best (although only the abstract)

http://www.neurology.org/content/54/12/2328.short

Mudmuncher – Best et al is the one we always reference, its called something like ‘ cardiac complications for pediatric case’ – not at work now so not got it to hand.

Must state – this is talking about long term near zero carbs although I suppose there is a likelihood that if you are succeptible then you may experience it sooner.

Don’t get me wrong, it works really well for some people, just seems to cause problems after a significant timescale.

I used to be a bodybuilder and used to go high protein/zero carb and get some weird beat rhythms so know what you mean.

ah, the do nothing till its proven approach

Not really.

I just thought science was supposed to be based on,,,y’know, science and stuff.

Otherwise you could just have a diet of mars bars and coke cos god said it would keep you fit and healthy.

Well it only took 2 years+ for someone to come along and back up what I’ve been bleating on about and getting grief over. cheers tom, I owe you a beetroot juice.

Whilst I find much of what you say compelling and it makes good sense to me, I am sure that the agreement of one small voice in the scientific wilderness does not show absolute proof.

Just as with issues such as global warming there will always be individuals on either side of the fence.

What’s needed to give these theories credibility is lots of study not evangelical adherence, as I’m sure you will be the first to admit.

It would be such a shame if this type of eating plan was globally accepted and long term implications then became apparent, very much like seems to have occurred with the low fat phenomena.

Mainly to Tom -Another consideration which goes hand in hand with the other stuff I mentioned would be longer term outcomes of low carbs diets.

For individuals with epilepsy (a big part of my work) low carb diets have proved to be beneficial in seizure reduction for medication resistant epilepsies. I have even seen people become seizure free.

However, studies suggest adverse effects on blood lipid levels and an increase in cardiac arrhythmias, and I know individuals who have had to end the diet and accept higher seizure frequencies.

Maybe something else to add to your reading list.

No worries.

I’d rather you be working on it than spending time on here.

I accept that what we know may well be wrong and that we should be doing something completely different but worry that, in a few more years, we’ll be told something entirely different again.

Thanks

The research into Low fat diets is seriously flawed

In what way? Not being a pain, I really don’t know.

Regarding the high fat/low carb diet my mum is diabetic and uses it quite rigourously. As a concerned son I occasionally have a look around the web for stuff just to make sure she’s ok. As an example I came accross Harte et al Post-prandial high fat intake leads to acute exposure to circulating endotoxin in type 2 diabetes mellitus subjects

If she’s wrong then I will be more than happy as I’m likely to have my mum about a bit longer.

On a break and thought I’d call in to see where this was going and I am still confused.

Are we saying that all research against high fat/high protein/low carb diets is flawed, or worse, falsified, because that seems to be where this is going?

So essentially Horizon was bad science and duplicity with commercial interests.

Is this true of most (all) the research that identifies problems with low carb/high fats diets or is there still a lot of stuff that we ‘might’ be getting wrong.Or the recent stuff linking high fat diets with excessive imflamation and heart disease. Many claim to have no conflict of interest or funding implications.

Also, I wonder if in 20 years time forums will be discussing the mistakes science was making regarding sugars and insulin.

Any way, must be off to work, thanks for the info.

Irrespective of the source, if energy in>energy out you’ll put on weight

But Tom, who is highly medically qualified seems to not agree, he stated yesterday that

Fat doesn’t make you fat and it doesn’t give you heart disease (I should know this one!)

And calorie excess isn’t what makes you fat, its all about your hormones’.

Pretty categoric that you can eat as many calories as you like from fats and it wont make a jot of difference.

Given that the Horizon programme didn’t meet with the ‘it’s all the fault of carbs’ school of thought and even had the audacity to talk about high fat foods causing obesity, what conclusions can be drawn?

That the researchers involved were applying bad science?

That the programme itself presented the facts badly?

That it was all a PR stunt by cereal manufacturers?

That perhaps you can get fat from other foods but carbs?

That the issue is rather more complex than some believe?

Although I’m being quite flippant, I am seriously asking for clarification, especially from Tom who seems the most qualified to comment on any mistakes the researchers have made.

Puts the 6 inch long adder I saw into harsh perspective

They look good.

31g carbs, 14g fat, 10g protein per serving which equates almost perfectly with the 55%, 35% 10% guidelines.

See now I’m confused.

Tom and others seem to be categorically stating that carbs and insulin are totally responsible for weight gain and high fat has no down sides.

Yet a quick look at pubmed gives loads of very recent research on high fat diets being linked to obesity and diabetes (even very recent ie 2012).

And a paper has been presented today to the Society for Endocrinology linking high fat diets to, among other things, heart disease.

I just don’t think that the science is as clear cut as some may believe.

So – we are still “too wee, too stupid, too poor”?

Well, mebbe one of them :D

But do you feel for every single person on the whole planet who suffers, becomes ill or dies?

Move?

THERE.IS.NO.SUCH.THING.AS.ROAD.TAX

How many more times before this sinks in, eh?

Sorry, I thought it was obvious that I was predicting what the average driver is likely to say (but obviously not). I know it and you know it but they don’t.

And if it is used directly to pay for roads then the percieved strength of their arguement will grow.

The only waves not caused by tidal forces are asteroids slamming into the sea.

So what you’re saying is we need more whales.

**** me. Is that a voter who considers the candidates rather then voting the bloody same each and every time based on some political dogma?

When someone apparently young and healthy drops on a football pitch, is seen fighting for his life in front of crowd of 40 thousand in the ground and several million on television, I don’t think its a surprise that it gets a fair amount of press coverage and captures the public’s attention.

Whereas when we see loads of other black people starving to death, dying from preventable disease or being blown to bits in airstrikes; or old people freezing to death in one of the most developed countries in the 21st century, it barely gets a mention on the news and hardly anyone gives a flying ****.

It just seems a bit odd to me.

Dont worry, it was only a prole, they don’t count in Brazil.

Soon they won’t count here either.

To be fair though, management did commision the redesign of the Allegro and Marina so you got exactly the same car but with square headlights.

I dont see why we waste public money locking up these people in the first place – its costs an absolute fortune to keep someone in jail.

Let them all out, close the prisons and if the public want protection from criminals then they should club together and pay for a local sheriff, like in the good old wild west days.

The best PM since Churchill

Love the rose tinted nostalgia. I agree that Churchill’s wartime PR painted him as a great man (and he was likely the best man for the job that needed doing)- a closer look at his actions and published beliefs shows something different.

And drivers will legitimately be able to say ‘ our road tax pays for the roads’.

You can still see the steel in her eyes/countenance though.

Think you’ll find it’s more of the dispassionate look that countless evil sociopaths throughout history have displayed.

Whale skin i heard

Personally i think animals are able to survive on many foods, the problem we currently have access to too much of everything

Apparently they are fat by selection not due to western diet.

However its thought that much of their vit c came from partially.digested stomach.contents of caribou.

I’d rather have a satsuma

So how come innuit are fat whrn they dont eat fruit and sugar?

Long time since I covered this so apologies if some details are squint.

Certain carbs such as those in wheat and potatoes are digested in the lower part of the intestine by gut fauna thus increasing the acidity of the colon with their waste; this necessitates an increase in the movement of water to the lower intestinewhich is excreted in the faeces. In addition blood alkaline levels change reducing the water content of the blood which can then be excreted as urine.
Consuming such carbs also increases the amount of gut fauna, without consumption of these carbs the bacteria will reduce in numbers. Given that these bacteria make up over half the dry weight of faeces it is problably a not inconsiderable amount.

Stopping, or drastically reducing, the consumption of these resistant carbs will lead to an initial reduction in the water content of the body. This will not, however, leave you dehydrated as we are mainly taking about water weight being used to excrete. When you dont have these waste products to excrete in such large amounts you dont need the water.

Apologies for any minor inaccuracies but this gives the general gist.

See, I find I agree with Bunnyhop on fruit/veg longevity and quality. However, I got brought up in market garden territory and still know folk from the area. They always say that the supermarkets choose the best of the produce and the crap goes off to be wholesaled to the local markets.

They are building a big Tesco’s near us. TBH its been wasteland for years and years so I don’t see too much of an issue. They probably backhanded the council anyway.

Huddersfield Town centre. I’m amazed that M&S is still in the centre.

If you’re talking about Huddersfields new Tesco then that ‘wasteland’ is the Sports Centre.

Previous plans were to build it on Springwood which is now a wasteland but, up til 2 years ago, was the day centre for adults with learning disabilities.

From what I can see the plan is:

Knock down the sports centre and flats

Build New Tesco on that site

Close current Tesco

At some unspecified future time the anew sports centre to be built on the Springwood site and a hotel on the current Tesco site

Canny buggers them Tesco folk, on Brighouse and now in Huddersfield they’ve managed to position themselves so you have to drive by Tesco to get to Sainsbury’s on most of the routes in.

IIRC in Brighouse Tesco made quite a few promises which they’ve now gone back on.

Kirklees council didn’t want to approve the planning permission for Huddersfield but reluctantly agreed as they felt they could not afford the legal challenges planned by Tesco.

£8k – that must be below minimum wage

working tax credits – so the tax payer can subsidise employers