No.. that’s a bit like telling Americans that abortion is now illegal so they just have to accept it and make the best of it.

And It’s legal for a 16Yo to buy an assault rifle, get over it!

Nope, nope, nope.

Tell me tomorrow that we’ve rejoined and I’ll be over the moon.

However, in my opinion, the subject is still a poisoned chalice for the political class so we will, at least for the time being, get on with it.

All I can do is the best for me and mine, even if the country, and many of it’s citizens are getting poorer.

Yep – we are sat there with a 2, 4 and 6

I know but that’s where we are.

I was one of the most vocal remainers out there, Brexit cost my eldest son his PhD being fully funded with an attached paid research post.

The country will have to make the best of it and we will have to do the best we can within it.

I very much look after me and mine nowadays; that was probably my most valuable lesson from the Brexit process.

The problem with Brexit is that the process divided the country.

No sane politician wants to take the country through all that shit again even if rejoining is a good idea.

The UK will just have to do the best with the cards it holds.

Have you looked at van prices yet? Faded a bit off the Covid peak but still pretty insane.

You’re not kidding.

Webuyanyvan have just given me £4279 for a 118,000 mile 2014 Transit Custom with EML, hillstart, abs and traction control lights on, seats and bulkhead removed and transmission fluid peeing out.

I gave £12k for it in 2016 at 20,000 miles so was more than pleased with the price.

I expected to be selling it for scrap.

A large number (probably around 20) Swallows were feeding above the trees opposite my house yesterday evening, first I’ve seen this year here in Yorkshire.

I’ve never seen so many at once before, usually only see them in ones and twos.

What have these people been doing every Saturday since 1953?

I did wonder myself so I went and googled it.

They are constantly active but, obviously, their voice and presence are going to be noticed more when they protest on a day when the target of their protest is there ratifying the very thing they are opposed to.

Your suggestion that they should avoid protesting when this is the case and the world’s press is in attendance seems like a poor strategy to be noticed.

I’m really not convinced that organising a protest when no-one is about would be the best strategy.

A bit like my false equivalence.

To be honest I really don’t care that much, I just find the whole thing entertaining. I’ll be dead in a few years so whether the Monarchy abolishes Parliament and rules from Buckingham Palace or they’re all guillotined doesn’t really make much difference to me.

The “Down with this sort of King” protesters have 363 other days to make their point. Clearly, this weekend, Plod are going to be hyper sensitive and may overreact.

I think the point might have been to do it while someone was watching.

You’ll be telling me next that workers should only go on strike on their days off so it doesn’t inconvenience their employers.

Well, I hope all the monarchists had a nice day.

These women’s safety volunteers didn’t:

https://www.kingdomfm.co.uk/news/headlines/police-arrested-volunteers-handing-out-rape-alarms-over-coronation-disruption-concerns/

They obviously didn’t want Randy Andy to be inconvenienced if he decided he fancied a bit.

The arresting of protesters prior was very naughty

It’s ok, I’m sure the Police will only ever arrest people who really deserve it.

I think it’s piss funny that 2 women were arrested for carrying rape alarms.

I used to rail about all the injustices in life, unaccounted and unearned privilege, prejudice, graft, corruption and the like but all it did was make me ill.

I’m in agreement with blokeuptheroad, we live in a country where all those things are generally accepted or actively supported. For the sake of a peaceful life its easier to just pretend you go along with it.

For hiking bivvy not biking I use a Trangia Triangle, a sheet of lightweight foil as a windbreak with a titanium pan; I use bio-ethanol rather than meths, no soot at all.

Used down to about -6C with no issues but need a match/lighter rather than a fire steel unless priming with a bit of cotton wool.

For day hikes I tend towards gas as it’s much faster to get a brew but for when I’m just laid out in my bag relaxing I love the Trangia.

Simple to use, nice and quiet, and I love the smell as it hots up.

What if those voters know that nothing will change as a result of their vote and so stay at home? Are they morons as Kerley would have us believe, or are they rational people who can’t see the point in doing something that will have no effect?

Personally I think the people who didn’t vote would have been better off if we hadn’t had 13 years of Conservative government; in fact I think nearly everyone would, but you (and they) might be right.

Have you never been to the north east before? I grew up there and it’s still the only place I’ve ever been where the words p*** and darkie are in common usage. It’s not a new thing, it’s always been the case. It’s actually a lot better now than it used to be. The north east has a weird and complex mix of extreme social conservatism and lefty class consciousness.

Up there all the time as wife’s family live around Lemmington, Newburn and Throckley.

It might be better wherever you were but not in my experience, things which were only said at home are now voiced loudly and confidently in Sainsburys, outside the school, in the pub etc.

The older parts of Throckley especially has seen a massive decline in the past 10 years to the point where my wife doesn’t like to go to the street she grew up on to see her mum.

Oh it’ll still exist, but it will be a background issue peddled by the bigots rather than at the forefront. I remember back to the early 2000s after labour massively improved the NHS, built loads of schools, and brought in things like child tax credit and there was very little talk about immigration. It didn’t start to become a big issue until the tories got in and started destroying our public services.

I just can’t see the people saying these things stopping believing them, they believed it before but felt they couldn’t voice it, that’s all.

Must admit I was a bit ‘wow’ about how overt the racism was up there compared to a few years back; The DJ at the night do did a version of the statues game with the kids with the first prize being ‘ a job in my sweatshop in Plackistan’.

I’ve said before that the only way to defuse the immigration issue is to sort out our public services, and to do that we need a labour govt. All western countries have a problem with this as people have become entitled to the benefits and advantages of living where they do. When people get the healthcare they expect and have the economic security they’re used to them the immigration issue will evaporate.

I’d like to think you’re right but, in my heart of hearts, I don’t believe it.

Labours large and consistent poll lead surely shows that the country has tired of people waving flags as a figleaf for everything thats presently going wrong?

I don’t think it does, I think people are just feeling a bit more skint.

Plus there’s still plenty of people firmly behind Brexit.

Pretty much all of my, and my wife’s family here in Yorkshire and up in Newcastle are just as ardent today about Brexit; just that it’s not been done properly/the government have let us down/Boris would sort it if he got back in.

I know it’s only anecdotal but we were at a family wedding in Seahouses a few weeks past and the conversation moved to a postponed hip operation for one elderly relative.

The consensus of most folk was that it was because, despite Brexit, the government was still letting in loads of illegal immigrants who were taking up all the NHS capacity ahead of the people who have paid their taxes all their lives.

On the private vs NHS front I’m seriously looking to move to private for the first time ever.

I work in LD/Mental Health and most qualified nursing jobs in this part of the world are offered by Cygnet Healthcare, part of the Universal Group, an American Health and Insurance corporation.

They now provide the bulk of mental health beds and are still expanding.

They are pretty unethical in their business practices and you will have seen them on Panorama a few times.

However, colleagues who have moved there report they feel better regarded and better paid than in the NHS.

I think they’re offering a significant golden handshake too at the moment.

Do NHS staff still get their gold plated final salary pensions and early retirement (55?) perks or is that all a thing of the past?

No.

NHS Nurse started 1999 have a frozen segment of final salary I csn take at 60 but the rest is based on average earnings I take at 67.

I had a fairly significant breakdown due to work stress so now work part time.

Last time I looked I’d get about £400 per month on the original (as gold plated as it gets) scheme, no idea for the later one.

My wife qualified in the early 2000’s. All her pension is the later scheme so she will retire at 67.

I ran your comment through ChatGPT but asked it to make it less passive-aggressive. There was a subtle but definite tonal change. Interesting. Maybe the STW tech bods should just run everything through that by default, would make the place a bit friendlier

I struggle with the typed word, getting stuff over, to the extent that I make demands on my colleagues to proof read my letters.

I’m not very tech savvy either but assume ChatHBT is some sort of program.

Out IT certainly wouldn’t let us put it on our laptops; we can’t even plug a mobile phone in to charge.

Perfect example of what I’m talking about.

You’re not interested in a discussion. You’re not interested in my views. It’s evident from the way you posed your question that you’re simply seeking an argument.

I have no interest in discussing my political views here as I’ve already stated. I have my views, I’m comfortable with them. Other people have theirs, that’s their right and privilege. I’m not interested in trying to convert people and even if I was, this thread isn’t the place for it.

I wasn’t meaning it to sound that way at all.

There are still millions of people who support the Conservatives and will be voting for Sunak when the time comes.

Many of them must have genuine reasons for doing so and think certain aspects have gone well, and also will trust the Conservatives for another term.

You seem to be identifying as such a person so I merely said I would be interested to hear your views, I have no real desire to argue.

If you don’t want to expand in this environment them fair enough.

It’s funny. As someone who fits that description perfectly, I perceive STW as extremely left wing and the exact opposite of that. So much so, I don’t bother participating in many discussions to put a conservative view point because, as someone else mentioned, there’s always a “f-you effing Tory” pile-on. I suspect I’m not the only one.

I’d be happy for you to expand on what you see as the positives for the country from the past 12 years of Conservative government, and why I should vote for Rishi Sunak in the next General Election.

If the poor don’t have cars and the affluent buy newer cars, who the **** is driving all these polluting cars around?

Compliant petrol vehicles were introduced in 2005, and diesel 2015/16 so the faux concern about people having to buy new vehicles is misplaced.

Yep. Never ever see 64/65 plate diesel cars and vans on the road nowadays.

So they will no longer be able to undercut the sole traders who are environmentally conscious and don’t pollutte as much?

Possibly. Or, more likely, costs will be passed on if the trader thinks it’s worth dumping their van and spending the £40k plus on another one.

Those who don’t want to make such a massive investment will need to fold up and go find something else to do; post Brexit there’s loads of minimum wage jobs going.

I wasn’t arguing though, just commenting on stuff I’d heard said locally.

I don’t really care if all the local one man bands go bust, it’s no skin off my nose, there’s always going to be someone to do the jobs that need doing.

There’s plenty of not too well off sole traders with non compliant vans in Calderdale who were really going to struggle with the huge Manchester CAZ; I assume that would be the case for many bordering it.

Plus it will be huge if it ever goes ahead.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/greater-manchester-clean-air-zone-20527409

I’m perfectly comfy at 17 degrees in shorts and a T shirt with bare feet, my wife likes it a couple of degrees hotter.

So we compromise at 19 degrees.

It must be a right sod if you live there and aren’t well enough off to buy a new car/van.

evolution was a myth because if it was real “all the monkeys would be people by now”

I work with a very highly qualified medical professional who is also a member of a creationist church; he believes this along with fossils seeming to be millions of years old as a test of faith.

Yet will happily slate patients who are anti-science as regards covid vaccinations.

Nowt as strange as folk.

Well of course mols. My definition of wokism is quite different to the definition used by some on here.

For many on here being “woke” means being against bigotry and prejudice. For me, and a very significant share of the electorate, it means pissing about the English language.

Same as molgrips I would not think of you as racist or bigotted.

But within your definition, as opposed to more official ones, where do it start and end?

My mum uses ‘P*ki shop’ and says it’s PC gone mad when someone challenges her.

A bloke in our pub stated quite openly that another pub had ‘a coon working behind the bar’. Went on to say ‘he seems a nice, friendly lad’.

Neither were said with malice but I consider then both to be offensive rather than just working class folk just using the wrong words.

Mind you, I did do the second half of my diploma at a university.

The bunker mentality part of my brain wants a coal/ smokeless fire instead. What’s the chance of gas and electrical power cuts in the future?

This is me too, but I remember all the downsides as a kid as well as you.

Plus if no gas is getting through I suspect getting a delivery of coal/wood and/or it being nicked by desperate people is highly likely too.

I’m mainly looking to stick a bit of heat into the room for an hour or less rather than putting the whole central heating on.

I think gas fire and sod the cost might be the way to go.

What is wokeism?

Formally it has been described as ‘alert to racial prejudice and discrimination’ and expanded to include sexism and a variety of other isms.

I don’t think it has a real meaning any more.

Everyone just uses it to describe the bits of being nice to people that they don’t like.

That’s me….. always backing the Tories.

I am working-class, I intensely dislike “wokism”, and I very strongly supported leaving the EU.

For the intellectually lazy that can only mean one thing – I am a racist Tory.

What less could it possibly mean?

I don’t think he was aiming at you, he did specifically say Tory (Red Wall) voters.

We have an old house with 2 foot thick stone walls; indoor drying causes a fair bit of condensation and can lead to black mold.

We tend to dry outside, even in winter. So long as it’s not raining and there’s a bit of wind some evaporation occurs, and then into a condenser drier with the dehumidifier running.

Prefer higher bills to cleaning the walls.

It varies based on the composition of the gas at the time and the temperature – because 1m3 of cold gas contains more actual gas than 1m3 of warm gas, of course. This calcualtion is on your bill.

It also varies by your supplier. I’m with SO Energy and their cubic metre of gas has more kwh than some others – consequently a cubic metre costs me a little more from them than from, say, Scottish Power.

Are you suggesting that none of that should have happened? All those restrictions were considered appropriate responses.

Not at all. You are saying it didn’t matter to you (and millions of others) if the elite didn’t adhere to the rules.

So why do you (and those millions) think it’s ok for rich people to ignore the law?

Which other laws do you think rich and important people should be able to ignore?

I barely cared at all, it simply had no effect on the vast majority of people’s lives.

Most law breaking has little or no effect on the vast majority of people’s lives.

Should people care if a man rapes a woman?

If so, why? It has no effect on their lives?

And quite right too. Whilst Johnson eating birthday cake, or whatever, in defiance of the governments own restrictions was annoying it didn’t cause me any outrage, unlike some I barely cared at all, it simply had no effect on the vast majority of people’s lives.

However Truss/Kwarteng policies if implemented will have significant effect on people’s lives. Voters appear to fully appreciate that. They are not quite as stupid as many on here like to believe. And they are not daft enough to think that partygate really mattered that much.

Yeah, as a nurse having to prevent relatives from seeing their loved ones as they died, not being able to attend family funerals and knowing folk who had to watch their father die whilst they stood outside the ward window, I’m really stupid to think that what Johnson and his cronies did mattered.

Obviously now the Tories are costing folk money I should be outraged.

I would rather have the lying Johnson taking the piss than Liz Truss who probably didn’t do anything significant to undermine pandemic restrictions. And judging by what the opinions polls of the last couple of weeks are saying millions agree with me.

So what that indicates is the majority of the British public don’t give two flying **** so long as they’re alright – odd reason to start supporting left wing parties.

Hit them in the pocket and they all want to be socialists.

@edward2000.

Definitely talk to your lenders and energy suppliers.

Different time but someone I know was in dire straights a few years back and his mortgage company allowed him interest only payments for a time, and then an extended term when he returned to paying off capital; if you don’t talk to them you don’t know what solutions they may offer.

To blame these tiny tax reductions for the fall in the pound is akin to a fly alighting on an exhausted shire horse as it lies down to sleep, and telling itself that it wrestled the mighty beast to the ground.

So what did Starmer do on Friday to spook these men who rule the financial world?

And why are they all seeming to say it’s in response to Tory direction not Labour’s conference?

The pound isn’t crashing over a trifling batch of tax cuts. It’s because the markets are terrified of Starmer.

All these highly educated, motivated and ruthless money men are terrified of what a man who can’t get into power for 2 years has said he might do if he’s voted in?

Bunch of snowflakes.

Working in the nhs from the major years to now, the only time it’s ever felt like anything the government was committed to was 97-2010. You can blame Blair for the Iraq war all you like, the tories would’ve done the same but they would have not invested in the nhs the way the Blair government did. A vote for any party that makes Tory government more likely is an act of self harm as far as I’m concerned. Things are worse than I can ever remember and will only get worse if we don’t get this lot out and keep them out. It is that simple.

Nurse since 1996 and the only time I’ve felt valued (and got a payrise above inflation) was during the Blair/Brown years.

I have never seen the NHS so hollowed out and we’re not into winter yet.

I’m a voter looking for a party that will get us out of this shitstorm.

Unfortunately, it’s a 2 horse race.

According to the ONS

March to May 2022

Average total pay growth for the private sector was 7.2% in March to May 2022, and for the public sector it was 1.5%.

The finance and business services sector and construction sector showed the largest growth rates at 8.2% and 8.1%, respectively, partly because of strong bonus payments.

April to June 2022

Average total pay growth for the private sector was 5.9% in April to June 2022, and 1.8% for the public sector.

The wholesaling, retailing, hotels and restaurants sector saw the largest growth rate at 7.7%, followed by the finance and business services sector and construction sector, both at 6.3%; this was partly because of strong bonus payments.

Bonus payments are continuing at the high levels seen over the last six months, after a slightly lower level in May 2022.