No, the upper links on Santa Cruz bikes are not greased, but use sealed bearings.

On older bikes there is two nipples, but I think the newer ones use a single lube point to lubricate both axles on the lower link. And yes, the newer Bronsons are a pain in the arse to do :(

How do you know you have to replace the fluid? Do you do a weekly check?

Nah, not quite than anal ;-)

I just find that the next puncture I get doesn’t seal well and even that the tyre starts to lose pressure overnight. I’d never really given it a lot of thought, but I suspect that this always happens a few days after I use CO2…

I though the CO2 issue was that it was desiccated, rather than anything to do with cold? So effectively it was drying up the sealant (to some degree at least)

If this was the case, all (or virtually all) of the CO2 gets exhausted from the tyre between the initial “seating” inflation and adding the fluid so I still don’t see this being a problem.

On the trail is a different question. I am pretty sure that my fluid becomes less effective after I’ve done a trail inflation with CO2 and I’ve often found that a week or two later, I have to remove the tyre and replace the fluid.

Buy used. Kids grow and you replace their shoes to fit. Bikes are the same.

…and buy wisely too. Done right, you should get most of your money back at the end. I’ve bought new Islabikes for my kids over the years and while the capital outlay is high, I’ve actually lost very little money on them, mostly because they keep increasing their prices and the used market follows this. I know people that have bought good, used bikes, kept them for two years and then sold for more than they paid for it due to the increase in prices!

24″ bikes are a pain – at this age, stock hardware (especially cranks and forks) are either too big or crap. Once they get onto 26″ bikes, they’re usually big enough to tolerate adult-sized bits and you have a much wider range to choose from. You can also transfer hardware between frames as they grow.

Personally, my boy’s Creig 24 will be his last Islabike and we’ll move onto garage-built frankenbikes from here on. That said, their pro 26″ bikes are lovely… :-)

Personally, I seat the tyre bead with the tyre “dry” and once it’s banged onto the rim, I remove the valve core, add the solution and then re-inflate. In theory, at least, the cold CO2 and Stan’s fluid never come into contact…at least until I’m sat freezing on a moor in the snow!

Sat at my desk chuckling about “Stanimals” – I think I have a couple at the back of the garage somewhere :)

It’s Strave not a Pro race who gives a shit?

Sure, but one of the big USPs about Strava is the ability to compare with other riders. Introduce cheats into this and you’ve got the same problem as online gaming, where a few guys with unlimited health or unlimited ammo can ruin the experience for everyone. This is something the online gaming companies have been battling for years.

No, in the bigger scheme of things, it doesn’t matter, but if you remove the segment comparison then Strava is just a glorified ride logger and suddenly their USP is gone. If I were Strava, I’d certainly be concerned and would be wanting to do something about it.

I know it won’t help you tonight, but Aldi occasionally sell really cheap digital micrometers and they are ace for stuff like this, when you want to be 100% certain that you’re ordering the right bushing, bearing, sleeve, etc.

I don’t use them often, but when I do, I’m always glad they are there and I’m yet to order the wrong part since I started measuring stuff!

Comparing your segment times to others has to be taken as very light hearted competition.

I completely agree. Being honest, I find the global leader boards a bit off-putting as, frankly, I don’t need to be told in black and white that I’m not very quick.

For me, the only value I get is logging rides, sharing experiences with others and segment ranks against my friends. If I could turn off the global rankings, I probably would as they are a net negative to my experience.

Can only speak for my son – he’s 8.5 and about average height for his age. He moved onto a Creig 24 just before his 7th birthday and this was right at the minimum height limit for it, even though the Beinn 20 still had a bit more life left in it. He’s now in the sweet spot on the Creig – it’s perfectly sized for him as he is now. A Beinn 20 would be way too small for him now.

I also have a 26″ Giant Liv full sus in size XS (these are like hen’s teeth to find!) and it’s still way too big for him. In fact, his sister can just ride it comfortably and she’s nearly 11.

I also have a Major Moda road bike, on 650c (26″) wheels and my son is again at the bottom end of the limit on this, but he gets away with it as running a larger road bike is much less of a problem than a larger mountain bike, which is far more likely to curtail his fun on technical terrain.

So, in short, for my son at least, taking him direct from a 20″ to a 26″ bike would certainly have compromised his riding where he would either have been too big for the 20″ bike or too small for the 26″ one and this would have been a real shame when he’s loving his riding so much.

Hope this helps in some way.

Rode round the Kitchener Trail at Sherwood Pines on Saturday and, thanks to some judicious childcare I had one go for a quick run without the family.

Rode round flat out until I thought I would pass out or be sick (or both!) and still only managed to be 3rd fastest on the day!

Yeah, who cares about steenking Strava anyway. I’m not competitive and I don’t give a hoot what anyone else does.

(Mutter, mutter, mumble, all on bloody eBikes, could be faster than the lot of them, grumble, grumble)

http://www.machinedesign.com/motion-control/dangers-fake-bearings

http://www.catmag.co.uk/trading-standards-sieze-fake-bearings
Honestly, for mountain bikes, the shittiest quality bearings are more than good enough and this includes fakes. Where you are much more likely to come adrift is in the quality of the seals as, once you get shit into the races, they wear out in no time at all.

As others have said here, I’d always tend towards spending a few quid extra on better bearings if you know it’s going to be a shitty horrible job. And of course, those of you with Santa Cruz frames get lifetime free bearings :-)

Love the DIY solutions :)

For me, I find that 75% inflate fine with a track pump and a bit of sweat and for the remaining 25%, 16g CO2 carts are cheap as chips so I just burn one of these – plenty to get two tyres seated. Got enough clutter around the garage, although I reckon there’s always room for playing with fire extinguishers…

Nice bike! just reminded me I also had the blue pulley on the mech for cable angle (we were so gullible then!).

Never! Well, maybe a little… ;)

(Oh, and I forgot the blue, CNC jockey wheels which were uber-bling back then and just as pointless as today!)

I have a big head and am running around in a Hardnutz large hat and this fits a treat and is, I think, the comfiest “fit and forget” helmet I’ve had for years.

Not daft money either – I object to paying massive sums for what is, in effect, compressed packing material.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01LBDS4CK

I reckon this thread is going to degrade into 90s bike therapy, but here’s mine from the same era and I’m proud to call it my own.

Some items of note:
[list]
[*]Middleburn rings – all different colours of course[/*]
[*]Hope hubs and skewers (blue)[/*]
[*]Ringle bottle cage (green)[/*]
[*]Flite Ti – just look at it :)[/*]
[*]Red riser bar, yellow grips, purple plugs and gripshift grips[/*]
[*]Silly purple “shit collector” on the rear mech. (The bullet bros tensioner had broken by this time)[/*]
[*]Red Ritchey pedals – poor man’s SPDs[/*]
[*]Tan tyres. I mean, I actually went into a shop and chose them.[/*]

[/list]

For all that, I had a lot of fun on that bike and miss it. I still know where it is. i wonder if they’d let me have it back… :)

Now does anyone want a bucket…?

Back then there was no such thing as too many colours!

Damn it, that’s a Middleburn 50-ish you’ve got going there – I had one exactly the same on mine and was super proud of it in the day. I was roundly ridiculed for the size of it, but I was the only one that could keep pushing all the way to the bottom of the hill :-)

It came back to mind while looking at a new Eagle bike and it dawned on me that the cassette had the same gear on it…!

And I see a bullet-bros chain tensioner. Had one of them too!

I’m planning to pull the trigger on a tallboy 3 but just wanted to canvas some options from current owners.

Must be a few out there, but I’ve got a TB2 and I absolutely love it. The shorter travel suits my riding style to the ground and while I would like the ability to run 27.5+ (something that was added in the TB3) I’ve been more than happy romping around the woods on my TB2 all winter. It’s a blisteringly fast bike and with the right (i.e. lightweight) build kit, is amongst the lightest FS builds out there. My previous bike was a Pivot Mach 5.7 and the Tallboy feels much faster on the trails, although a bit less responsive round the corners as a result of its clown-wheels.

Mine has the stock Fox Factory shock option and I like it a great deal, although haven’t run anything different on the bike to compare with.

Won’t clutter the thread with more stuff as you specifically asked about the TB3, but shout if you want to know anything more. Short travel 29ers seems a rare breed on the trails these days, which is a real shame. Fashion, eh?

A lot of bikes are OEMed with Enduro bearings but I never seem to read good things about them. Any thoughts?

I have the Sealey one, which is a compact-size “proper” torque wrench. Works a treat, but doesn’t come with bits / adapters, so you need to source them elsewhere:
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/tools-workshop/ratchets-sets/sealey-torque-wrench-micrometer-style-3-8-inch-sq-drive-2-24nm-1-47-17-70lb-ft-stw1012

Wouldn’t bother degreasing. Just get some decent marine grease, fill up grease gun and flush it through. Though only any good on lower link with the grease ports, but as I say that’s the ones I mainly have to do. Upper link I find is fine with the factory grease for years.

Interestingly, I find the upper link is the one that grits up the quickest, where the lower link lasts longer, presumably because it’s easy to flush the grease through and is therefore done more often.

Regarding degreasing, yes I’d agree on new bearings or lower link, but if greasing the upper link bearings in-situ, you can only get to one side, so they really need a proper clean out to get the grit n shit out. At least, that was my experience when I did it earlier in this thread.

Whatever way, some proper thick marine grease and loads of it.

Absolutely. In fact, I don’t think brand matters providing it’s thick, waterproof and you use loads of it :)

Use Lucas Red Tacky marine grease and the Hilka gun – works ok for me.

Not sure how you can blow seals with this as the lower link seals are open anyway and designed to allow grease through them. You do need to be a little careful not to apply too much pressure, bit otherwise it’s fine.

Great looking bike!

To answer one question: no, the standard Creig 24 rims won’t go tubeless. I gave it a good go, but they weren’t even close to sealing.

Great ride and recommended for kids.

Pluto is easy to miss

Reckon this is on purpose, fake planet that is is!

Got a year out of my Nomads. Considering how long I keep bikes I think it’ll save me a couple of grand in the long run that Santa Cruz’ll replace them.

Next new full susser in 2036
Spoken exactly like my wife ;-)

What a load of shit

OK, I’m out of here now :-(

any tips on a good degreaser and or techniques for flushing old grease out when repacking?

I use the finest degreaser that Screwfix sell – it seems quite effective but doesn’t smell strong (like, say, Gunk) so won’t disolve everything in sight.

Stick it in an old muc-off bottle and you can soon spray it into an open bearing. A few minutes of wiggling got mine nice and clean.

This is the stuff. It says “heavy duty” but in my experience, it’s no stronger than the expensive bike shop stuff and seems to work well:
http://www.screwfix.com/p/no-nonsense-heavy-duty-degreaser-5ltr/88668

Obviously, you need to make sure it’s all gone from the bearing before repacking, but it evaporates quite quickly.

Do SC tell you to apply liberal amounts of grease between the bearing and cover (not the bearing seal)? I’ve always been in two minds as to whether to pack it out to keep water out, or whether it would just attract dirt and cause creaks?

They certainly say to apply grease between the outer bearing seal and the aluminium cover piece but it’s a little vague – “apply grease to inner face” it says here:
https://www.santacruzbicycles.com/en-US/node/450

Personally, I slap a bit on but like you, I’d be worried about the grease attracting grit and, again, this is one of those “works in California” things. Anyone else have an opinion here?

LOL! I’ll tell him – he’ll like that :-)

Have both the Giant kit and a rapid racer one, makes changing bearings a doddle. With the right adaptors, can also change hope hub bearings.

Yes, I looked at those, but when you price up the adapters it got very expensive, very quickly. I’ve got a pile of proper Hope presses now for doing the hubs / freehubs and combined with a load of threaded rod, nuts, bolts, washers and sleeves, this seems to serve me well.

How many adapters did you end up getting?

Maybe I’m being pedantic about blind bearings then, as blind bearings won’t allow you to tap out from the other side ie they’re ‘blind’ there’s no hole there. Pedantic because I’m not sure my bike actually has any truely blind bearings. It has some that sit on a ridge with a hole in so this tool would be good for that.

Yes, moderately pedantic, but I’ll let you off ;-)

Yes, they’re not true blind bearings, which typically need something to be inserted into the race itself, but more “short-sighted” bearings instead, that allow you to get to the back of the bearing, but you can’t actually press it out.

The biggest annoyance of this sort of bearing is that you effectively need to push/pull on the center race and you need to be really, really careful when you do so to avoid the bearing exploding at leaving you with the outer-race still stuck in the linkage. I’ve mentioned elsewhere that a bit of judicious heat, applied to the linkage block (but not the bearing itself) works wonders for making them easier to get out and I’ve now got a pretty good success rate (say, 95%) of getting bearings out intact.

Giant manage to make bikes without this sort of bearing, but a lot of other manufacturers’ bikes are full of them and they are a pita when they go wrong.

It really does depend on the bike. I mentioned that Giants are really easy to do, but any bikes that have blind bearings of any sort tend to be more difficult and time consuming. At least Santa Cruz have a bearing warranty, so I don’t have to put my hand in my pocket to replace them when they need replacing, but it’s still an evening in the workshop if you want to replace the lot.

Perhaps those all-steel hardtail riders have got a point… ;-)

“Officially”, perhaps, but as I’m sure many here have done, I reuse them when removing a chain from the bike and have yet to have one fail as a result…

Ah well, yet to have a problem with a KMC or SRAM link, so it’s nothing more than a bit of a novelty. Shame really as I love the convenience of a removable chain and it seems daft to have to buy a third-party link with every new Shimano chain.

Doesn’t point 4 contradict point 3? Moving all the clutter from the downtube higher up to his back pocket.

Hey, I never said that weight weenieism was logical :-)

That said, I always prefer a lighter bike under me, and my clutter in my pockets. This means that (in my mind at least) I can chuck the bike around more freely. I also object to a cluttered bike, but I admit that this is aesthetic…

Out of interest, are these going to replace the old break-off pin for new chains, or are they being sold as an aftermarket alternative?

1 No matter how many bearing presses and tools you have, you still end up bodging a tool as there is always that ONE tool you dont have.

I bought this a few years back and I’ve found that it’s an absolutely ace kit for doing frame bearings on pretty much any bike:
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/gb/giant-sixpackplus1-maestro-bearing-tool-kit
The only thing it lacks (because Giant design bikes well!) is any sort of blind bearing puller, for which I use various solutions including http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131982076375 which I mentioned elsewhere.

I’ve now managed to get enough proper presses together that my socket set remains firmly closed throughout most bearing replacements :-)

What a bunch of **** you lot are.

Eldest is a fit and lean 5 but it’d make it more attainable for him to cover longer rides and get up longer gradients with a bit of assistance. What’s the **** problem?

Mate sent a message yesterday about doing a 3 1/2 hr ride with his missus that she wouldn’t have previously entertained and it got me thinking. But no, I’m probably worse for my kids than perchy’s paedo mate for suggesting it…

Chill dude, posting about e-bikes for kids here was never going to get a good response, I’m afraid :)

There’s literally tons of stuff that you can do with kids of that age. I just had a look back through my Strava history at what I did with my boy back when he was 5yo:

[list]
[*]Sky Rides (got a different name now, but still going strong)[/*]
[*]Local MTB trail centre – skills loop. Kids *love* these and they tend to be short too.[/*]
[*]Cinder Trail – Whitby to Scarborough and back over two days (60 miles total)[/*]
[*]Bruges (Belgium) – took the bikes on the ferry, cycled 25 miles to Bruges, stayed a few days and cycled back again[/*]
[*]Tons of shorter (10 mile) singletrack rides[/*]
[*]Forestry commission sites – plenty of opportunity to mix up the trails and do something that suits his ability and fitness[/*]
[/list]

The key here is to not try to do too much too quickly, but you should have absolutely no problem doing good, challenging rides with a 5yo without needing electric assistance. All of the above was done with no more assistance than an occasional one-handed shove up a hill when his legs tired. Just build it up slowly and you’ll find that you’ll enjoy it all the more.

One thing we didn’t do too much of is riding with our normal MTB buddies with the kids – at this age, everyone gets frustrated because of the difference in speed. Only now that he is 8yo would I consider taking him out with a group of adult riders and, even then, it would be a specifically chosen group that either he could keep up with, or wouldn’t mind if he was a bit slower than them.

I think most people have it here, but:

1. Spinning weight – every time you hit a pothole, accelerate around a corner or brake, you’re trying to overcome the inertia of your wheels. Make ’em lighter and the more weight you can remove from nearer the outside, the bigger difference it will make – so rims and tyres make a huge difference (you’re not still running with tubes, I hope!), spokes make a bit and hubs, very little
2. Unsprung weight – like on cars, if you can minimise upsprung weight, the bike will respond better and crash through bumps with less effort. Forks, hubs, brakes, transmission will help here
3. Everything high up – keep the weight low, so strip weight first from higher up on the bike and work down from there
4. Clutter – Don’t use a bottle, get rid of the cage. Pump strapped to the bike – swap to CO2 and get it in your back pocket. 14kg of assorted tools in a saddle bag – have a good clear our and cut back to the minimum that you need. (for me, two CO2 cylinders + head, tube, small puncture kit, powerlink, super-small multi tool)

It’s diminishing returns, so once you’ve got some decently light wheels and tyres and got rid of that clunky, pig-iron cassette, you’re into weight-weenies stuff that will make no more than marginal difference.

Oh, and when you weigh it, lie. Everyone does it, so think of it as moderating your results.

OK, so seeing as someone mentioned about pre-greasing new bearings and I had completely forgotten to do so, I’ve stripped the linkage this evening as I thought it might be interesting to see some photos of relatively new bearings.

Link removed from bike:

External covers removed. Still plenty of grease left behind them, outside of the main seals:

Seal removed. This is pretty much how they come from the shop – bit sad looking, if I’m being honest:

Cleaned and regreased. I use Lucas “Red n Tacky” which sticks like mad to anything. It would be far to thick for a wheel bearing, but is perfect for frame linkage bearings like these:

And refitted and adjusted on the bike:

Good half-hour’s work there, I reckon and as mentioned by someone further up this thread, well worth doing on all linkage bearings before fitting.

Good effort MiniDaern

Thanks – he absolutely loved it and for those with kids I would really encourage you to get them out riding with you as young as possible and you’ll be amazed at what they can do. Obviously, I’m proud of my lad, but I am sure this is nothing that any other, properly trained 8yo boy or girl could do. I don’t even mind that he’s a bit slower than me – I get way more pleasure watching him ride than I do flogging myself to bits :)

Here, have a proud dad pic from the hills above Scarhouse reservoir a few weeks ago:

(Hopefully, we’ve now distracted the original eBikes-for-kids post successfully ;) )