The credible source is yougov. That those websites have used the numbers is neither here nor there.

Be as dubious as you like, these are surveys of british peoples attitudes presented in black and white (well, colour, bu you get what i mean).

As for fearing that we’d be back to 2019 numbers I can see no reason for that at all other than heightened ‘alert’ due to the ongoing media campaign against Labour.

Two other points:

1- People can be ridiculously sensitive about things. My wife was speakign to a Bolivian (I think) friend who decided that our Labour MP ‘is a racist’ because she didn’t smile at her in the street. That is the only reason.

2- A party the size of Labour – 500,000or so members is going to have its fair share of dimwits and undesirables. You can’t vet them all, only deal with things after the fact, whatever procedures you put in place. The fact that the Tories have someone as unashamedly bigotted as Johnson in charge (never mind the rest of the Tory front bench) should be a real red flag to anyone with the slightest interest in fairness and democracy but for some bizarre reason he gets a free pass.

One was here:

As an antisemitism crisis threatens to engulf the Tory party, Laura Kuenssberg runs to the rescue

but the actual survey is a yougov survey which I cant be bothered to root out.

The second graph was from here:

Smoke Without Fire: The Myth of a ‘Labour Antisemitism Crisis’

Which again uses data from Yougov.

30% of labour respondents is a lower prevalence than in other parties. Also, a ‘positive’ response just means that a respondent agreed with one of the statements which were deemed to indicate antisemitism – it doesn’t actually prove antisemitic behaviours one way or another, but is likely to correlate.

Either way it should probably be less accross the board and it isn’t solely a Labour issue.

Antisemitism in Labour is lower than in other parties and in the general population:

That there are people who will say antisemitic things either purposefully or through ignorance of the many and varied ‘antisemitic tropes’ is unquestionable – this does not make those people or the party as a whole racist.

That there are genuine racists within Labour, the Tories and all other parties is also unquestionable and so far as I can see, Labour is not the party courting their votes or appealing to their instincts, in fact quite the opposite.

Spectabilis – that article is a bit myopic to say the least.

So, from a tax point of view the treasury loses out on the cash transferred to Mr Richer, but because he is giving a lot of it back to less well paid staff, it will end up in the economy being taxed.

That’s why its CGT exempt, its not a con. This is a good thing – I might be going out of my way to use Richer Sounds in future because of it too.

Incidentally, everyone saying “I didn’t know she was mixed race because I’m not interested enough in the royal family”- fair enough, but then you didn’t post a picture online about the child did you? Anyone who did, presumably does pay some attention to the royal family

That’s the point isn’t, if you don’t know (or care) and you just hear “Royal baby” and think it’ll be funny to say that Royals are part of a circus by posting a silly picture, then why would race enter your mind? It wouldn’t unless its pointed out to you, after the fact.

I doubt this is going to help, anyway…

Its not whether or not he knew Meghan of Meghan Markles heritage (which he may or may not have done), it is a question of whether it entered his brain when posting the picture. If the picture was posted about the other ones (Kate is it?) kids, no-one would have batted an eye, it would just be a silly post about how silly the royals are.

That it is Megan Markle’s kid means that there is another meaning, however for Danny Baker to have been racist he would have had to have been actively thinking about her race when he posted it. He says he wasn’t and that is entirely plausible to me (and many others).

That doesn’t stop the picture having racist connotations and that is why he removed it and apologised. I don’t see the need for the witch hunt which followed.

eat_the_pudding – DBs comments and mine say the same thing.

awesshoe – Concisely? No, you provided a tale of woe based on actual racism you and others have experienced. Fair enough, that should all be dealt with in the appropriate manner.

None of that experience really has anything to add to Danny Baker’s situation. You leap to the conclusion that he is racist simply because racism exists and refuse to countenance that he might have posted something which can be construed as racist without any intention to be racist.

That doesn’t diminish the inappropriateness (if thats a word) of his post but it does mean he should be cut a bit of slack, especially when he has no form, and when his first action on realising what the post looked like was to remove it and apologise.

Basically, as I said above, you are refusing to see anything but the worst possible intention. Your posts show why, but I don’t think its a reasonable position to take.

HP and Branston are basically the same are they not?

Both are superior to Heinz.

Where I appear to be? I haven’t moved thanks.

Yeah. It basically says what I said all along.

Is this the end now?

nickc – that’s not the argument most people have been making at all.

The End (or is it, who gets to say?)

Lets try again…

If you are making a joke about “a royal baby”, and you don’t think about its race unless someone points it out to you, there is no reason to think that the picture would be offensive. The fact that there is a racist association between monkeys and black people simply does not come into it.

Once someone points out your error you would expect the post to be retracted and an apology issued. Which is what happened.

The intended joke was clearly “Royals are just performing circus animals”. There was no consideration of race whatsoever in it.

This inability to see anything but the worst in people is absolutely staggering.

And why would you automatically be thinking about race when making that joke?

Thats the whole point – if someone says I’ve had a baby I don’t immediately ask “whats it’s race”?

Of course he knows her race. When he posted the picture the joke wasn’t “ha ha black baby looks like a chimp” the joke was “ha ha royal baby – another performing monkey”. Race doesn’t feature in the equation for the latter.

If you are predisposed to make that link you might see it straightaway (i.e. racists (diseased mind) or people who have been subject to that abuse). Clearly the post is inappropriate and should have been removed, which it was, with an apology (twice) but that’s not good enough for the permanently enraged.

My objection is to the witch hunt and the refusal to see that it could be posted in error which is basically as, if not more, bigoted than the racism of which he is accused.

Impressed with Awesshoes post’s? GTF.

All he’s done is put up a load of explicitly and unquestionably racist abuse and equate it to posting a silly picture on twitter.

Yes, it’s shit that your family and anyone else for that matter suffers abuse and discrimination but that is not the subject here.

What you seem to be unable to grasp is that not everyone sees a picture of a chimp and immediately makes an association with black people.

Not everyone thinks of other people in terms of race first i.e. Meghan Markle is a royal first, actress second and black somewhere down the list in order of characteristics of note.

When making a silly joke about the pointlessness of Royals, why would race even come intot he equation – the only reasons are 1. you are trying to make a racist joke or two you are black yourself and have been subject to abuse of that nature.

The image itself is not racist. The wider context makes it so and it should clearly be removed. Very, very few people on here have suggested that it was OK to be left in place. Those defending Danny Baker are simply saying he did not even consider race at the tie of posting, which is entirely plausible especially given the posts swift removal and proper apology once it was pointed out to him.

And frankly, if the likes of eat_the_pudding dont have the capacity to understand that, they have my pity…

Lister and nealglover –

Even knowing all that, you then still have to consciously make the link between silly picture featuring chimp to make point about how silly all the royal ‘news’ is and the mother.

Its not a natural leap to make.

Awesshoe – I don’t read it that way at all. Isn’t it amazing how things look different from different perspectives?

I don’t see how this falls into ‘unconscious bias’ either. Its not discriminatory. Its posting a silly picture on a message board without a second thought to race, gender or any other particular characteristic. Other people may have good reasons for offence, which when pointed out, led to him taking it down and apologising for the inadvertent offence. I don’t see how that warrants a witch hunt.

awesshoe – its not ignorance – its simply not even registering it.

Why would you have the mothers race in mind when making a silly joke about royals being trivial and unimportant?

Once it was pointed out to him he took it down and apologised. That should have been the end of the matter. Maybe it does point to speaking from a privileged position but that doesn’t mean he should be crucified for a mistake which he has apologised for.

eat_the_pudding – you are talking shite.

What does Roseanne Barr have to do with Danny Baker?

Actually, it will probably help if I answer that simple rhetorical question for you lest the point evades you – Nothing, its simply not relevant, at all.

Oh yeah, and this ‘diseased mind’ thing as if its an insult against those taking offence – I read it as saying he simply doesn’t think that way i.e. he doesn’t have the ‘disease’ of seeing everything through a lens of race – what should be the ultimate aim of any true anti-racist.

This was his sentence “[The racist connotation] Never occurred to me because, well, mind not diseased.”

Again, probably not the smartest thing to write but my guess is it was an attempt at being humble, not fighting back.

tpbiker is right.

It is a racist post to racists (and to those constantly vigilant for potential offence I suppose), but if your mind doesn’t work that way there isn’t anything obvious to be upset about. It took me a long time to work out what the offence was.

Meghan Markles race is no issue whatsoever to me, in fact I could barely care less so it really does need someone to point it out before it even registers. I presume the same for Danny Baker.

DB should probably have known better but a swift retraction and apology is what was required and what happened. In short, Markle and other black people probably entitled to be offended, DB right to retract a silly post with implications he hadn’t thought about, BBC wrong to overreact.

If the battery goes flat that wouldn’t stall the car. Is the battery actually flat or is it just not starting?

Some sort of loose wiring somewhere? Dodgy fuse?

You are clearly in a shit situation and may well have reached the end of your tether but you are hardly coming across as a completely level headed and easy to get along with kind of guy. In fact, you seem to be remarkably stubborn and have something of a chip on your shoulders not to mention a bit bloody paranoid (the housing association is out to get me, the police are out to get me, the politicians are in the pay of the housing association – that last one is an absolute classic by the way).

Stop whinging and do something – go see your council, go see your MP if you think all these others are truly ignoring you but put a sensible head on first eh.

Some people are truly antisocial dickheads (especially when they are drunk) but it doesn’t mean you get to choose where they live. If you don’t like that then good luck with the world.

Bulb are fine. Electric works, gas works. Its cheap enough…

Apparently we use 4315kWh electric and 11176kWh gas for a 3 bed semi, two kids.

Whaley Bridge or anywhere on the Buxton line.

I don’t commute into Manchester, I go the other way, but plenty do. Trains are generally OK, save for the usual Northern Fail antics, but no pacers – they’re banned from the line – it’s too steep.

Good riding from the doorstep too.

There are also some languages which read the opposite direction so presumably type that way too. Do you have a keyboard shortcut setup which you don’t know about? Or a language setting in windows if its global?

Did you write the words after “elbaredisnoc” without stopping and resetting the cursor or does it start before the reversed word? i.e. if you hadn’t noticed would you have written “elbaredisnoc effort…” or “effort… elbaredisnoc”?

OK, that’s probably not you doing it then. Something must be examining the words you are typing and spitting them out backwards, that’s not keyboard or hardware related, if it was it wouls happen mid word too, which you say it doesn’t. The word keylogger might be important. Have you run a full virus/malware scan? Only other option is some sort of driver issue.

Sounds like something intercepts the words from the keyboard then passes them on to whatever program wants it and, presumably when you’re typing quickly, it gets in a fix and spits it out backwards. You’re not one of these characters who likes to double key the spacebar every now and then are you?

As someone said above – Occam’s Razor. Without a doubt you are typing the words backwards. Presumably you type quite fast and you are getting ahead of yourself. There are some words I always balls up, for instance “though the” always ends up as “thought he”, I guess yours is an extreme version of this.

Other than autocorrect, there is no mechanism for this which makes sense. If you have to convince yourself, try a USB keyboard for a bit. That would rule out anything in the hardware, and you are fast running out of options.

Slow down.

Few points then:

1. Buxworth might as well be Whaley Bridge.

2. Train from Chapel/Whaley goes through Hazel Grove, train from Chinley doesn’t.

3. If you’re driving to Sheffield, the time difference from Whaley/Chapel/Chinel is pretty minor i.e. you wont notice.

4. GMPTE cheap fares stop at New Mills so the trick is to get on there if you’re going towards Manc

5. The way to Macc from Chapel goes right through Whaley and is a bit congested in the morning so your missus might have a view on that…

6. Chapel is rubbish and Whaley is ace (sorry r8jimbob, but you’ll soon find out!)

Well, it certainly has no less action than Chapel, if you can believe such a thing, and if your desperate for a proper evening, Manc isn’t really that far away.

Chapel’s OK, but Whaley Bridge is where the action is! There’s a dual carriageway between the two for very little traffic so in terms of transport theres very little difference.

I’d almost go for Chinley ahead of Chapel, except that the trains on the Buxton line are a lot more frequent and nicer than on the Hope Valley line.

Disclaimer – I live in Whaley…

Leaving aside the petty insults trailwagger, if you take simon_g’s example above, this is not very different to my honeywell digital thermostat which is standard with the boiler. Its programmable and does more or less whats described there, just from a slightly fiddly LCD box attached to a wall, rather than my phone. The main difference as I see it, is that the heating will come on sooner if its cold thus using more energy. The offset to that is that the house is warmer quicker. I suspect the majority of people will be in the warmer house camp as opposed to the save energy camp therefore more energy used.

And yes, I do know exactly how much energy I used in different periods of the year, my bills tell me and its not very difficult to work it out.

Some pretty email which tells you how virtuous you are really means very little.

Like I said, in general. You may well be a model citizen but for every one like you there’ll be a few more who constantly dial it up, or pre-heat the house before they get home etc etc

If I’m out I don’t adjust it, the thermostat takes charge. For those that like to tinker, the settings will be up and down like a yoyo, which is inefficient at the best of times. For those that don’t like to tinker its going to work more or less like a dumb thermostat anyway.

Anyway, its a fair bit of waste (replaced hardware, energy usage (both smart thermostat itself plus server time etc)), for a very marginal improvement, and that’s only ‘if’ you want energy savings. If you just want convenience than it is going to be wasteful, almost by definition.

If you’re after saving energy then set the thermostat lower. If you increase it just because you have that convenience then that is counterproductive.

I imagine, as a general rule, the convenience of being able to idly flick the dial from your phone and make it a few degrees warmer when you don’t really need to will outweigh any savings over the long term.

Nowt wrong with convenience and making things easier but most of this is just shite for the sake of shite.

Its not as if a basic thermostat is actually difficult to use – they are designed to be basically automatic. This thread describes a wet dream of teenage consumerism. Nothing here really enhances anyone’s lives, its all just solutions in search of problems.

Wow, look at all this really useful stuff going on. Lights coming on and having a smoke alarm and erm,..

How did anyone cope beforehand?

0.1-0.5w per device might not be that significant for one household but multiply that up across a country and that’s a lot of power delivering not very much.

Got a text from my neighbour on the first night as she thought someone was in our house. So it works well.

Your seemingly vigilant neighbour will now ignore anything suspicious leaving you more vulnerable surely.