Yes, but like that 80’s 911 these ‘retro’ bikes pretty much sit in garages & sheds not getting dirty and not getting (properly) used

Are they? Our oldest bike is a 1998 Cannondale F400, that still gets regular use. My newest bike is over 10 years old. My most used bike is 19 years old and still going strong. And I know plenty of people still regularly riding old bikes. Plenty of life left in the old dogs yet!

@Endoverend; ah, thanks. Pretty much my own views tbh.

Pretty sure emergency services can all park on double yellows if on duty, regardless if he’s getting his lunch or not.

Really? The law appears to contradict this, unless the vehicle is being used to attend to an emergency. And if he’s getting his lunch, is he technically on duty?

🤣

If you get bored with butties, remember that wherever you are in the UK, you’re never more than 20 ft away from….

That probably contains rat DNA in some form…

I’ve just had a Pastrami, French blue cheese and Picallili sandwich. Meat, cheese and pickle. Pretty much the Holy Tinity of sandwich fillings.

Its a very hard thing to define. If we are talking about cycling or mtbing as a hobby, how do we capture that value, and exclude the general purpose halfords/decathalon bike that will never see dirt, or even a ride-for-the-sake-of-a-ride?

But bikes like that may well see ‘dirt’, albeit in the form of a bridalway, footpath etc. It doesn’t have to be 1000m+ and granite-strewn to be ‘off road’. And there are a hell of a lot more bikes like that out there than there are expensive FS bikes. Many get used simply as utility/commuting bikes. My point was that that sector is still shrinking, and is nowhere near the heyday of the late 80s-early 90s when MTBs were the largest selling sector in adult bikes. You’ll still see far more hybrid style bikes out there; the ‘Dutch’ style bike is increasingly popular in urban centres now too. Bikes bought with the sole purpose of riding off road in more demanding terrain, are dwindling in number. It’s become an increasingly specialist niche. Of course, you can ride any sort of bike off road if you really want to, but the marketing bods won’t tell you that.

I thought there was something wrong with my telly this week, it was so flipping dull. The cinematic treatment matched the story. But it perked up right at the end, in like the last 5 minutes. Could have just had that and saved us all some time. Perhaps that’s actually the key to a successful new format?

As for the last 5 minutes; we saw a glimpse of Larry Strong last week, getting the condemned to agree to having their tongues cut out in exchange for freedom. He looks a lot more interesting as a character (and the actor seems a lot more natural too). Although why the character has to have an obvious impairment, I have no idea. I thought the days of the ‘evil cripple’ in films and tv were behind us. Perhaps there’s a backstory which explains why he’s such a nasty ****…

If you’ve got some spare time to listen to the whole thing it might resonate with some of the OldSkool riders on here, I only intended to watch a few minutes…then sat through the whole thing

Is there a TL;DR version of that? I’m afraid I zoned out after just a couple of minutes. His delivery isn’t the best.

yeah, I’m still mentally at 1.4 or 1.5 to 1 with the dollar.

I’m still at around 1.6:1. Late 90s. Was easy to work out dollars to pounds, as it was more or less the same as kilometres to miles.

Most of the old school shops i’ve gone in recently are more likely to have a dusty bits cabinet than a shiny bits one.

🤣 I did find a Chris King headset in a LBS a few years back; it had been there for well over 10 years. I know, because I’d enquired about buying it way back then, but they weren’t willing to budge on RRP. It had been there a while even then. Ended up getting it for about £75. It still sits in my spares box as we speak….🫢

Halo products are where all the margin is. Entry level products are sold close to cost.

Have you ever worked in the bike retail industry? The average cost of a new bike in the UK is under £400. Given that the vast majority of bike sold will be at this point or lower, the ‘halo’ products really don’t make bike shops much money. The returns might be higher, but you’re not shifting the units. Halfords sell many thousands of bicycles each week, the majority of those being kids’ bikes. Halfords enjoys a 20-25% share of the UK bike retail market. Decathlon also sell large volumes of cheap bikes. MTBs are a relatively small (and shrinking) sector. That sector has become more ‘specialist’, so you’ll find a lot more expensive MTBs than other types. Hybrid/commuter bikes are the largest sector of adult bikes. Folding bike sales have rocketed in the last decade, as have e-bikes in the last 5 or so. I think e-bikes are the fastest expanding sector now, and MTBs the fastest shrinking. The kind of customers who once bought an MTB as standard (late 80s-early 2000s) now buy road bikes, hybrids, folding bikes and e-bikes before they buy MTBs. also; second hand bike sales have increased loads, and those figures aren’t included in the new bike sales figures of course. So the actual real median (or is it mode) amount spent on a bicycle in the UK right now, is probably significantly lower than £400.

Bike shops have had to radically alter their business models in order to survive. Some have gone more specialist, with dedicated roadie/e-bike etc shops popping up, and others are far more repair and servicing focussed now. There are even lots more community recycle type projects going now. Due to online sales, most bike shops have given up trying to compete for component sales, and now rely more on helmets/clothing/accessories. Gone are the days when you could pop into your LBS and they’d have the correct size/fitting XT/XTR/Dura Ace/Ulegra/whatever mech in stock. Most things now have to be ordered in (some shops even just tell customers to buy it themselves online, and charge for fitting and set-up). Which is a shame, cos I used to like going in and drooling over the stuff in the Shiny Bits Cabinets.

Suggestions for other things to go in between two slices of bread that aren’t meat or cheese?

Erm… Er… Hmm… Ooh no wait…

No; you’ve got me. No idea. Soz.

That makes me feel sick just looking at it.

I know, right? I mean; what the actual? 🤢

Semantics surely? A man in his 40s (at the time), hanging around with a pair of dodgy sex trafficking scumbags known for procuring very young women; all a bit noncey if you ask me. Nasty bastard.

I don’t really understand this logic, people being dismissive of bad things because worse things exist. If I told you I’d had my bike stolen would your reaction be “get over it, people in Ukraine are being bombed”?

Pretty much, yeah. I might lend you a bike until you could replace yours though, if you needed one. It’s just a bike. Bikes sometimes get nicked. Meh.

Giuffre could have refused the reported £12m payoff, of course.

What’s that got to do with anything?

Thats completely irrelevant to the Guy’s behavior

How? We’re facing the biggest cost of living crisis since WW2. This of major concern to many millions of people. Yet many millions of pounds of public money was spent on a lavish funeral for an unelected monarch. Who paid many millions of pounds of public money to silence the victim of her son’s sexual abuse. I think his behaviour was completely relevant. Well done to that young man.

Take for example square-tapered cranks. Anything more than moderate use would just round the spindle off and into the bin they’d go

Lol! ‘Moderate use”? WTF are you doing to round off a STEEL axle with an ALUMINIUM crank? I’ve got SqT BBs that have outlasted bike frames. The one in my commuter may well be approaching 30 years old. When did Shimano introduce the cartridge BBs? I’m pretty sure it’s from that era. Got at least another 3 or 4 on bikes that have to be getting on for 15-20 years old. Ridden in all weathers, still spinning smoothly. I’ve serviced even older Cup n Cone BBs that still work fine after 40 years or more.

Rear mechs (along with hangers) used to be fairly disposable, and rim brakes would wear through wheel rims…

Currently running XTR M950 (2003), XT M737 (1996), 2x Deore M510 (2002/3) mechs. Been running a set of Mavic 212 rims with V-brakes on my commuter for at least 8 years now, and they were s/h when I got them. Still fine. Got a set of 717s on my Wife’s bike that must be from mid 2000s. Open Pros on my road bike from about 2003. Admittedly those haven’t had as much use though.

Hopefully the two idiots who assaulted someone exercising their democratic right to protest will be charged according to the letter of the law. As there were clearly many police officers in attendance, they had no cause to be physically assaulting him. And let’s face it, these ‘heroes’ only grabbed him cos he’s a skinny wee lad. 16 stone MMA fighter, I think they’d have not bothered. Cowards.

a family’s dead granny.

Meanwhile, many other ordinary people will be attending funerals for their grannies come this winter, as a result of hypothermia killing them. Remind me how much this funeral cost?

As for Andrew Windsor; he may not technically be a ‘paedophile’, but he is still a nasty sexual predator that targets vulnerable young women. And his mum paid his victim off (with our money) to keep her mouth shut. And she wasn’t in that coffin anyway…

You could gaze in wonder at the huge temples of Mamon built using exploited labour?

So most of the interesting stuff has been mentioned

Where?

I had a Bilateral Inguinal Labroscopic repaid done a few years ago. All dealt with brilliantly in the local hospital. I asked how painful it would be, whilst being prepped for surgery. ‘Oh, it shouldn’t be too bad, you’ll be able to walk out afterwards, then it will be a few days of discomfort’.

Lying ****. It was worse than childbirth. And weeks of absolute agony. And because they’d filled my belly with gas to aid the operation, the ensuing constipation felt even worse. At times, I was actually sobbing with pain. My wife, not the most sympathetic person in such circumstances, wasn’t impressed at all. Having endured breast cancer and treatment, she might perhaps have had a point. Still bastard hurt though.

I don’t think that’s true. You can get a (new) hardtail that’s suitable for serious mtbing for £1k. I started riding in ’98 and the cost of a half-decent bike then (something with better than rst 281 forks) was around £600. inflation-adjusted, those are the same amount. At the same time, kit lasts a huge amount longer than it used to, particularly in terms of failures

The top-top end has got higher, but the entry-level-serious is pretty much the same.

Fair enough actually. A Specialized Rockhopper Elite is £949 and that has Deore gears, with Rockshox forks, and is pretty good tbh. Full suspension seems to add a disproportionate amount of money to things though, I’m sure you’ll agree. The cheapest Stumpjumper I can find is £2250.

As for kit lasting longer; I’m not so sure. I’ve got some pretty ancient parts on some of my bikes; hubs that are perhaps 25+ years old, mechs and shifters that are around the same age. Cranks that are even older. Stuff that gets regular use, not just now and then. And I know that stuff from about 10 years ago was often rubbish; I’ve seen enough of it thrown away and needing replaced. Will current kit last as long?

It’s an expensive hobby

It wasn’t always. When I first started riding MTBs (1988), the most expensive bikes were around £1000-1200. So roughly around £2500-3000 adjusting for inflation. Some companies now sell pedal cycles for £13000. And more, I’m sure. Ok so most bikes aren’t that expensive, but there’s loads of bikes well in excess of £3000, and they’re nowhere near the top end. That seems to be somewhere north of £6000 now. And even road bikes weren’t too bad; a full Ultegra Specialized Allez was around £900 I think around the mid 90s (£1700 now), what’s an equivalent bike selling for now? The 105 equipped Allez Sprint Comp is £2900.

Pedals. What TF happened to pedals? They used to be £15!

A modern mountain bike doesn’t have that much in common with the bikes that we started the sport with in the 80’s’ish, the mountains are still mostly the same though. The modern mtb is closer in relation to a motocross bike with pedals. Maybe going back to simpler more durable equipment rather than the consumerist disposable market driven gear fetishism we seem to have fallen into would be better for inclusivity and affordability given our economy is rapidly being asset stripped back to the 1880’s.

+1. ‘Cycling’ as an activity is fairly healthy in economic terms; more people on bikes than when MTBs first appeared. ‘MTBing’ is an increasingly niche activity, if you discount the pootling around woods/along towpaths/bridalways etc that most people who used to buy ‘MTBs’ actually did. Those same leisure/casual cyclists now buy other types of bike; ‘gravel’ bikes have become very popular as a result. MTBing has been marketed increasingly as an ‘extreme sport’, so the bikes have become more sophisticated and specific. Yes, you can still buy cheaper MTBs from Halfords and Decathlon, but the ‘entry’ point for ‘serious’ MTBing seems to be relatively a lot higher in cost than it used to. But I imagine golf is probably more expensive these days too. Has anything actually got cheaper?

I had a year’s free sub, that’s just run out. There really isn’t anything I’d consider worth paying a sub for. Foundation I found terrible; A real waste of resources. Could have been worse though; could have had Will Smith in it. For All Mankind was also pretty bad. As for Ted Lasso; one episode would have sufficed. I think I gave up after the 3rd. It’s dire. A one joke show. Can’t remember anything else I tried on there. There might actually be something good on it,I don’t know. Netflix it ain’t. Apple usually get their product so right; perhaps they should stay away from TV though.

Wear Rainbow stripes?

Why do people put their thermostat on at a temp of over 18c? That temp is a nice warmish summer day, yet some have central heating blasting out at 21 +

Everybody’s physiology is different. Some people fare better in the cold than others. My wife and I are both better suited to warmer conditions; during the recent heatwaves, we were fine, whilst others suffered horribly. Some people have more fat on them, and/or higher blood pressure, which helps when it’s colder. Also; sitting still at home isn’t like having a nice brisk walk outside; you’re not generating much body heat if you’re not active. I’d probably have some sort of lightweight jacket on outside at 18ºC anyway. That isn’t a ‘nice warmish summer day’; 24ºC+ is a ‘nice warmish summer day’. 18ºC is a little chilly to me. As for 11ºC in a toilet; how on earth can you concentrate in such bitter conditions? You do know you’re allowed to have toilets indoors now, right?

@timmys; interesting. I found the original APP tips just too big, and uncomfortable for anything more than 5 minutes. Tried the Sony’s, and as I said, sound quality wasn’t as good, and they fell out all the time. I think I have very small ear canals, so I do prefer the more common thin stemmed type earbuds, where you can change tips easily. But there aren’t any that are up to APP standard. Would much prefer Apple buds, as the connectivity with an iPhone is vastly superior to anything else. I have some B+O over earphones for ‘serious’ listening, but they can be a bit finnicky getting them to work straight away with the iPhone. I found the original APPs excellent, apart from the fit. So smaller eartips may solve the problem. Are yours more comfortable with the 3rd party ones?

@configurstion steel expands slower than alu so heat won’t help

Well, I’ve used this method and so have others, and it does work. You’re just heating the outside enough to make the thin walled steel tube expand a tiny fraction. I’ve also seen the technique used on stubborn BBs.

Another method is to use a hacksaw blade to cut a slot in the post; this should release sufficient tension

I should clarify that the cut needs to be vertical, along the post. It’s a tricky job; I used a piece of 18mm or so dowel, with a slot cut along it’s length, to accommodate and stiffen the hacksaw blade. A lot more difficult if a lot of the post is in the frame though, although I unstuck a seized post that had about 8″ inside the frame.

I was sceptical and expecting it to be a messy hassle. It was completely hassle free, just don’t rush it.

I wouldn’t say it’s ‘hassle free’. Caustic Soda is nasty stuff; protect your eyes and skin. And don’t expect it to be quick, as said. Once took me about 2 weeks of repeated daily applications, to dissolve a post enough to free it.

Starmer accusing a Labour MP of racism doesn’t seem to have put the matter to bed.

Exactly. The Tories managed to turn just about any negative press into something positive (aided of course by the largely right-wing mass media. This is a trick Labour still haven’t learned. What Starmer should have done, is immediately gone on the offensive and highlighted just how much Tory policies would affect those in minority groups, particularly people of colour. He could then have neatly segued onto how badly the old and infirm would be affected, linked in just how badly the NHS will struggle this winter, etc. Moved the debate so far from the original ‘offence’, that people would have more or less forgotten it. That is classic Tory tactics, but it works. Politics is a very dirty game, and Starmer is to busy trying to out-nice Corbyn. Never going to work. Labour may well be enjoying a mythical lead in current polls, but that’s meaningless in the context of an electoral cycle. To conjour a footballing analogy; it’s like Starmer has nicked the ball off the opposition striker, rounded his own goalkeeper and fired a rocket into the top corner. And then turned round and realising it was the wrong goal, and it’s the opposition who are cheering.

I can’t comment on the B+Ws, but I’ve had both Apple Airpods Pro and The Sony WH1000-XM3s, and the Apple ‘buds are better. Better sound, better fit (both were uncomfortable; I may try some of the new AirpodsPro 2s, as they have a smaller ear tip, the Sony’s fell out regardless of ear tip, with the slightest of movement), better connectivity with my iPhone. The XM4s are supposedly better than the XM3s, but I don’t know how they rate against the new Airpod Pro 2s. The B+Ws by all accounts don’t seem to fare very well overall. And are a lot more expensive.

No chilli sauce on a kebab? Are you some kind of pervert??😱

Does anyone want a kebab on the way home?

Steel is stronger than Alu, so clamping the post in a vice (attached firmly to a workbench), and twisting the frame, might work. Heating the frame with a heat gun/blowtorch could expand the steel sufficiently to free the post. Be careful though. Caustic Soda will dissolve Aluminium but not react with steel, but that’s an extreme measure. Another method is to use a hacksaw blade to cut a slot in the post; this should release sufficient tension. Takes bastard ages though.

Don’t expect the post to be useable afterwards. As me how I know…

Limitations of text based discussion ?

Probably. It’s an intensely complex subject, and one which would take more than the confines of this thread in which to have a proper discussion. It currently feels as though we’re trying to have a conversation in a noisy pub, only there’s this drunk bloke who keeps trying seek attention…

I must remember to remove that piece of black tape that’s inexplicably stuck to my window…

You’ve shown no willingness to enter into constructive discussion, so I feel people would be wasting their time. If you feel you’ve already made up your mind, and are ‘right’, then all power to you.

FFS it’s you not understanding not me- Do you need me to walk you through it?

No thanks. I have no desire to try to wade through the mire that is your own opinion. You’ve already accused me of making a racist statement; I fear that any ‘discussion’ with you would not conclude positively unless I agreed with you. Which I’m not going to.

@ctk he didn’t say that. You’re taking two separate statements that aren’t mutually exclusive and trying to make them so.

Thank you. Why is it that some people understand, yet others don’t?

Your insistance on using such a narrow definition and asserting its the only accepted one shows rigidity of thinking and a closed min

I never asserted anything of the kind. In this particular context, such a definition is one that works best to try to analyse and explain the situation.

Of course he can be a Tory, and of course he carry out Tory policies. He just needs to be criticised for it.

In the same way as Priti Patel was criticized for being a Tory and carrying out Tory policies, especially in Patel’s case immigration policies.

The fact that these politicians are black/brown clearly adds an extra dimension to the criticism. If you want to pretend that you can’t see that then that’s up to you.

+1.

Betraying his ‘blackness’? So there are certain things he should do because he is black? He’s not allowed to be a Tory because he is black? This is racism FFS.

No; this is just you totally not understanding something. Nobody has said he’s ‘not allowed to be a Tory because he’s Black’. That’s entirely in your head.

So there are certain things he should do because he is black?

I think many from ethnic minorities might think that someone from their own ‘tribe’ might seek to look out for them, and act favourably, politically. As Kwarteng’s actions will undoubtedly negatively impact many minority groups in this country, I think it’s only reasonable that many people might feel ‘betrayed’.

I was just suggesting that her language shouldn’t be excused by her not being white

But doesn’t that have some bearing on why she made such comments? IE; that as a member of a minority which is routinely discriminated against, she felt that the potential negative impact of Kwarteng’s actions warranted criticism? I personally wouldn’t ‘excuse’ her comments, but I at least try to understand where she’s coming from. She could quite easily have made the same point far more eloquently and without resorting to clichéd tropes.

Fixed that for you.

What you’ve actually done, is crossed out the bit that says ‘brown’. Why? Are you denying Rupa Huq’s ethnicity? Do you believe her ethnicity and cultural heritage have nothing to do with this situation?

““I don’t believe for a minute that Keir Starmer has any serious intention of tackling racism within the Labour Party. And the reason I say that is because a lot of black people are on the left of the Labour Party and Keir Starmer is on the right,” she told The Voice.

“The racist bullying of black people which culminated in the attacks aimed at Diane Abbott is simply a useful way of getting rid of people on the Left.””

Or at least black people can call him an Uncle Tom, white people probably need to pretend that they haven’t noticed that he is black.

🤣

Brilliant.

The insinuation from Huq is that somehow his political beliefs make him less black. As if black people should all feel the same way.

I think you’ve also misunderstood things. Huq’s words were indeed clumsy and inappropriate. But her intention was clearly to imply that Kwarteng, in carrying out Tory policy, was betraying not only his own ‘Blackness’, but many of the very people such policies are designed to discriminate against. This, I feel, should be the focus of this issue, not whether or not a Brown woman is guilty of racism. Yes, she’s an idiot, in the same way Diane Abbot was when she stupidly ascribed certain physical features to people of an entire nation. Neither, however, are guilty of racism. Both comments are racially offensive, for sure. But actual Racism means both women suffer far more prejudice, discrimination, abuse and threats because of the colour of their skin. This is fact. There isn’t a single UK politician who has suffered more racist abuse than Diane Abbot. This is another fact. I think it far more important to concentrate on such facts, than bleating on about what White men think is racist or not. Labour could well have turned this into an opportunity to attack racist Tory policies, instead, they’ve scored yet another spectacular own goal.

That doesn’t define racism. Racism is not only about exploiting ‘power’ over another person.

It may not be a definition you agree with, but it’s one that is used extensively throughout academia, and is now accepted as a key philosophy of the analysis of Racism. Again; please read the linked article.