I like their quick link for serviceability, over the split pin Shimano thing.

Just use whatever quick link you like on a shimano chain. Works fine – was doing it for 10 years prior to moving over to KMC/Sram[/quote]

Yeah, that works, but why spend the extra £5 for a quck link when the Sram/KMC comes with it from the off?

Personally, I’d run XT Mech and Shifter & GX Cassette and chain.

I prefer the feel of the XT shifter, and I thought the XT mech quality was better than GX, however the GX cassette offers a bigger range for less weight. Sram chain is just a preference- I like their quick link for serviceability, over the split pin Shimano thing. Added benefit of my choice is that it’s also cheapest.

Don’t forget that the top tube bosses are also for a water bottle cage.

Are they? They don’t look like they are spaced for a bottle cage (plus there are 3 visible tabs) but if that is the case then fair enough. [/quote]

They are indeed..

I’m pretty sure Ben is talking about FS bikes. There’s plenty of HTs that can take 3.0″ with standard 135QR rear.

Chris Harris came across like he has in all his YouTube videos, it may be scripted but he must have had a big hand in writing his bit

+1

The last segment he did was very much like his old stuff. It feels like his YT videos, but with more cash. There’s better camera angles and some CGI (a bit too much tbh).

I hate James Martin. I find him incredibly dull, yet self absorbed.
I also watched the Mille Miglia episode.. he’s awful.

Plus, as we are on a cycling forum.. THIS . 👿

What a shame! I spend lots of time up at Greenham & surrounding area. I often hear various aircraft at night around there, rarely see anything during the day. My house is above one of the flight paths. Nearly caused a few car crashes- people get very freaked out when a helicopter appears just above the trees with all the flashing lights. Unbelievable how low they get.

I had this dilemma recently.
I’ve used both DT and Hope for years at a a time. Both were fine reliability wise. The Pro2’s that I had on my SS winter bike had a hard life. I did find the labrinth seal wasn’t great, so I wasn’t sure if the Pro4 would be any better. I went for the Pro4 anyway, and I don’t regret it. The seal looks a lot better, pickup is spot on and I’m supporting British. I’ve filled the pawl/ratchet space with grease and it’s pretty much silent now.

Boost is a bit of a halfway there standard as its not enough out back to get you more than from say a 2.5 > 2.8, without some shenanigans with chain stays going over/under the chainset, whereas up front its 10mm wider on something that already had 81mm of clearance, so more than enough for a 3.0 tyre.

Interesting.. How do so many HT’s achieve it? There’s plenty on the market that will take 3.0” with clearance on a standard 135mm rear & 68mm BB setup (i.e.- Stooge Mk2). Could you pull the same trick with the yoke on a FS? Just curious where the difficulty lies.

UK: Cotic, Stooge, Whyte, Airdrop, Orange & Bird. Dealt with all of them and they have been great, plus you’re supporting UK firms.

Other: Turner & Jones- strong emphasis on quality & CS.

Cy- Apologies, I was comparing Small Rocket to Medium RocketMax, as they’re both the first in the size 😳 . I thought the TT was looking short.. 😆 That’s the problem with having 5 second intervals to look at things whilst at work. Just need to arrange myself a demo at some point.

Andy is definitely a gent, no questions asked.
Great products, backed up by fast & friendly responses.
Someday I will own a Ti version..

Brilliant news! Congrats to Cotic. Long time in the making.
These may have just topped my new bike list..

Edit: The normal Rocket geo is looking a bit outdated now..

Thanks all.
I went to LBS and found out a fair bit more.
The FB video above summarizes it well.
G160 is going to come in 3 models, with varying spec; 1×11, Yari & dropper= £2400, Eagle, Pike & dropper=£3000, Eagle, Pike, dropper & carbon bits= £4000.

Looks like they have a great lineup of bikes now to cover everything.
Importantly, the T129 has got more mud clearance!

No carbon versions on the T129 or G160 though 😥

That would be awesome, thanks Rb!

Thanks very much RB!
Exactly what I was after. The should be easy to N+1 the green G160, seeing as it’s the same colour as my T129!

I wonder when this will be officially released.

+1 to all above

I’ve been looking for a 650b 150-160mm bike.
Seemed to float around Bird Aeris, Airdrop Edit, Whyte G160.. but now this! Very respectable spec with a UK made frame.

Is Orange turning things around under new ownership?

Most certainly an issue with his maxle- as otsdr says, try tightening up the axle that runs through the center.

I’ve got a T129 and never had an issue with the rear axle.

Aye, Gil has done superb decals for me on several occasions.

Has to be the iHealth Wave. I’ve used a whole host of different trackers for work projects and the iHealth is fantastic. The new Wave is excellent and unbeatable at the price point.

So my friend has a beautiful, slim British wife, but decides to sneakily import a rather cheap, plastic lookign asian lady who will take pretty much any size that you want her to?

😆

I’m done. I wish Shand all the best for the future and hope he carries on making those lovely steel frames. For what it’s worth, he’s a great chap that worked on my ideas with great communication.

Has the website wording been changed now to confirm it is a Chinese frame?

It’s always said it’s from Asia, it’s just that the description is very misleading. Hinting at Shand being part of the design process.

It’s a funny one..

When Alpkit posted a trade event photo, there was what appeared to be a loop bar copy. Everyone went a bit mad.. HERE

When Shand sell a China frame that copied the Trek, no one cares about that. What’s the ethics here? Is it left to slide because Trek are big boys and can take a hit?

Some of you come across as complete tosspots with your opinions on how he should run his business and marketing. I bet you wouldn’t be so rude if you met him in person.

You do know what a forum is, yes? 😆

Is the OP sworn to secrecy?

Evil have a habit of doing that. There was a few cases in the UK and USA where they would only honor warranty if posts were removed, photos deleted & threads deleted. Just check out MTBR!

I’ve got a set of the RS version on my Whyte. Great brakes- powerful and lots of modulation. Much better control over the XTs. A year old and gone through a few set of pads, but still feel perfect and consistent.

Cycling is all about having fun, even more so for the Shand customer base. His customers buy into the brand,the lifestyle and the bespoke ethos. They hand over their cash to be part of that journey. They/potential customers have every right to get upset & annoyed.

The generic carbon thing has nothing in common with thee above. I feel sorry for the poor sod that pays out the £1,100 based on the bike ‘porn’ description. They may feel by visiting the site and seeing the steel offerings that they are joining the club with something unique that Shand has put his input into and ‘worked closely with’, but in reality he places a wholesale order, it comes out a box, get’s painted, has some decals applied and is then forwarded on. None of that love and craftsmanship goes into it.

If people wanted generic China stuff then the likes of Shand wouldn’t exist in the first place. Leave that to on-one.

If it’s about increasing margins and growing the brand, I don’t understand why he didn’t commission a series of off the peg frames in standard sizes. He’d get the same end result and could probably steal market share from the likes of Cotic.

Weird.

Good idea. I’d certainly pay the £2 extra.
We used their A&E services last time too.

As for Shand having “economies of scale” when it comes to painting, that shoes a fundamental misunderstanding of the scale of the Shand business

Not sure- now that he’s opted for stocking catalogue frames he might shift a few more.

Yep – 28 colours and 4 sizes. It’s a good job he’s selling thousands of these. I’m beginning to think that you haven’t even read the webpage.

Opened it, saw generic China carbon, checked geo- was massively disappointed, closed page, returned to thread and began my campaign of ‘in the good old days’. Glad to hear they are painted in the UK..

I quite like the look/versatility of it, just wondered where you can get it sprayed by the “Chinese outlets” as there’s nothing that I can find, any links would be great.

HERE you go

Q:How to have our own paint design?
A:You can put your own logo on the frames and paint whatever color you like.

Q:How to have our own product design?
A:Tell us what your idear, Our product design team will help you realize your ideas.

It’s possible that these frame are painted and have decals applied before they reach Shand. He can just hold X stock on each colour.

Link it and I, or someone else, will post it for you.

Cotic: British designed, built in Taiwan
Stooge: British designed, built in Taiwan
Travers: British designed, built in Britain
Shand: British designed, built in Britain (at least for steel)

Completely different business models. Stooge, Cotic, Travers, On-one, Bird, Airdrop, Whyte & others make a big deal about ‘British Designed’, not ‘Built in Britain’. Orange produce all hardtails in Asia and all FS frames in the UK. They ALL have input into the geometry, cable routing and material specification.

Shand opened a catalogue, pointed at something random and said ‘I want that one’. No designing or manufacturing input, so nothing at all like the others you pointed out. Nothing innovative.

Why is this £250 being banded about for paint?
Fat Creations can paint you something beautiful for that with different layers, colours & patterns. A block colour is around £120 by Argos & others for a consumer. It’ll be less than that for Shand. He’s got economics of scale.

I think there is a massive differences between an On One catalogue frame and a Shand.

… and that is?
Both suppliers have to ensure the frames pass the same test, both the frames are covered by warranty and other selling laws/regulations. At least On-one reflect the catalogue origins in their price. What’s the USP of the Shand over On-One?

To be fair, he China has finally sorted out the cables for once

I’ve bitched a bit in this thread. I really like Shand and the whole process of dealing with him has been fantastic. I just think it’s sad to see him take this route. I think he’d have plenty of scope in growing & increasing margins by commissioning a series of frames in China (as discussed before on this thread).

Just wanted to point out there are plenty of mugs who’ll pay for pretty paint

Yeah, the thing is that some of the Chinese will offer you to paint it, ironically with more colour choices than Shand. People just want to buy into Shand. Like Apple, Audi or Santa Cruz, just that now they’re buying an inferior product.

Because we don’t have the manufacturing infrastructure to mass produce carbon frames, or the cheap labour.

The whole point of someone like Shand is that it’s a bespoke, custom & low volume producer. His whole business is based off this, not mass production. I would bet he could charge a premium over steel to offer bespoke carbon frames. I’ve seen the frame and fork combo for £340 listed, and that’s a one off purchase. Presumably Shand will be getting a wholesale discount.. plus he’s got the other perks of being a business. In other words- it would be a lot cheaper for him then what Ben’s listed above.

There’s quite a few low key frame builders that are building in carbon, including some FS material hybrids like Swarf- Steel front triangle and carbon rear, or Olsen Bikes that integrate a pinion gearbox.

My guess is he wanted to capitalize on the brand he’s created and sell some cheapo Chinese Shand branded stuff to increase the margins. Seems to be how lots of the big guys do it with a strong fan base and loyal customers. Not sure it’ll work for Shand though. The passionate cycling community is quite small and those interested in a custom bike frame are even smaller.

Shand’s on this forum, I’d love for him to voice his opinion and possibly explain the direction he’s taking. I’m sure someones made him aware of this thread.

I’ve got the same issue with my T129. I’ve gone for a Maxxis Beaver Exo 2.2. Plenty wide enough, good all rounder- although it excels in the mud were the mini spikes cut through. Tyre clears quickly too. I’d definitely opt for the Exo casing though. Stock beavers have fairly thin sidewalls.

It’s a bit..