So this was posted without comment…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/ideas/videos/five-simple-ways-to-sharpen-your-critical-thinking/p0929tns

… which is not usual best forum etiquette. But then I’m about to comment without having looked at it so, usual forum practice, no high ground claimed. I’m going to guess it contains something about correlation and causation? Possibly also attribution errors?

Lol, no, it’s mostly about being open-minded and respectful of other people’s views. I assume it was posted ironically.

That looked like EU nations politicking to gain an advantage from AZ. It would have carried more weight if scientific types had pronounced the vaccine was causing problems. When those leading the chorus are are those well known epidemiologists like Emmanuel Macron it’s not a scientific dispute.

That’s a bit like taking the vaccine because it’s been pronounced safe by the well-known epidemiologist Boris Johnson 😂

Plenty of respected scientific institutions in non-EU countries have had their misgivings. Are Norway’s top scientists conspiracy theorists and antivaxxers? Still on hold there, and they’ve just gone into another lockdown.

I understand the government’s rationale for putting out an unambiguous message if they think the population is thick as shit, but not otherwise.

I reserve the right to take the assurances of both politicians and government scientists with a pinch of salt.

chrispo – can you highlight what you mean by propaganda by the Government? As far as I can see, numerous independent bodies in different countries have come to similar conclusions regarding the safety and efficacy of AZ and other vaccines.

The recent blood clot scare is a good example. Our government just says “it’s safe, safe, safe, it’s British and it’s amazing and it’s safe, shut up and take it”. I’m not sure that’s the best communication strategy given the way they **** most things up, admit no blame ever, and lie and mislead about pretty much everything else. A policy of honesty and balance and humility and openness might inspire more confidence among those who distrust the official line.

People are supposed to trust them on the vaccine’s safety, yet anecdotal evidence suggests a higher frequency of side effects than claimed (e.g. flu symptoms are supposed to be seen in fewer than one in ten people).

As I said earlier, I had no side effects myself. Which means I had the vaccine. Which makes me an unlikely conspiracist/antivaxxer, whatever the dominant clique on here like to argue whenever anybody questions anything they believe.

Three or four times I have sided with you and your right to have an opinion, as long as you listen to what you are told afterwards.

You mean, I have the right to an opinion as long as I change it to be the same as yours?

Where is the conspiracy? I question the government propaganda and suddenly I’m a conspiracy theorist. If this was Brexit, you’d probably be agreeing with me. Don’t be so blinkered!

Chrispo, I try to be even handed

You could usefully try a bit harder 🙂

It’s not conspiracy shit, but a perfectly valid observation. It’s not scientific, obviously, but I would definitely have expected more “I had none” posts from the rabid anti-conspiracists on here, yet most of you have also had side effects.

Now side effects may be normal and harmless and better than the real thing, but they’re not supposed to affect nearly everyone. So it’s no wonder that so many people don’t trust what they’re being told.

As I’ve said all along, if the government could just be open and honest and truthful…

More evidence here that nearly everyone gets unpleasant side effects, which certainly doesn’t tally with the official line. Nor is it something you see with normal vaccines that haven’t been rushed out.

Tempting to draw conclusions about how far you can trust the government and big pharma.

Holy mother of god, I’m not going down on any of you soap-dodging stinkers!

In the evening before sex, in the morning after sex, and at least every other day after other forms of exercise = about 2.5 times a day 🤷‍♂️

AZ. No side effects at all.

Just in case anyone cares, an update: I failed to convince the people in question and they have turned down the jab.

I am not, however, planning to excommunicate them from my life for doing so.

Science has never said that all possible adverse events will be detected within the duration of a clinical trial. Not for any drug. That is why participants will continue to be monitored after the study has finished. It’s also why the surveillance of safety of a medicinal product carries on for as long as the product is licensed (and years thereafter, should it be withdrawn for any reason).

Yes, absolutely. I’m just messing with the armchair experts on here like ElShithead who are so damning of anyone who has the temerity to question the party line.

What you are saying with that post I’ve quoted is that we should stop all vaccinations until the people who have already been injected are studied for years? … You spreading the ‘information’ that the vaccine is dangerous when it plainly isn’t puts you in the same group as the anti-vaxxers and conspiracy nutjobs like Lawrence Fox.

Um, did I say any of that?

Ok, silly of me to expect any humility on here, but given the ravaging I got a few weeks ago for asking (yes, asking) about the safety of a vaccine tested so briefly, I do feel somewhat inclined to blow a raspberry at the lot of you.

It is indeed Logic 1 Science 0. Logic (me) said you can’t pick up all side effects in a few months. Science (you lot) told me unequivocally and aggressively that you can.

It will be interesting to see what other unexpected effects crop up in the coming months and years with these vaccines.

So it looks like I was right to question whether six months of testing was enough to pick up all the side effects of the vaccine.

I’d say the half-time scoreline is Logic 1 Science 0.

Sorry but if you don’t think locking out the suspension makes any difference, you’re not trying hard enough.

Taking too little food/water/clothes/tools on rides to save weight

I do wonder where online retail will be in say 20 years time, when perhaps the cost of international shipping & road haulage has to bear heavier surcharges because of pollution, be it by either higher fuel costs or heavier taxes.

Totally dominant because it will still be more eco-friendly and more convenient and cheaper than real shops.

The pension point is key. Boycotting Amazon will make no difference.

Making sure your savings are with an institution that will push Amazon and other companies to behave better is by far the best thing you can do.

The tide is turning on tax. Slowly. Invest your money in ethical funds that engage rather than screen and you will accelerate that process.

Steve was down as we have to talk business and I had to sign a contract with him

What a weaselly, pathetic attempt at an excuse. Nobody has to travel to talk business or sign a contract.

All respect lost for both of them.

No. If we had a government that weren’t such a self serving useless pack of shits

No, it’s simply not good enough to blame the government. We all have an individual and collective responsibility to follow the spirit of the rules and do what is right.

Anyway, your government doesn’t set the rules here in Wales…

It’s really not Boris Johnson’s fault Bernard Kerr travelled all that way to have fun on his bike. With his mates. And maybe inspire the more impressionable to ignore the rules too. It’s irresponsible and it’s wrong.

As a professional mtb guide I need to keep up my skills and fitness. Does that mean I too can go ride wherever the hell I want?

Interesting to see so many of those clamouring for tighter/longer lockdowns on the Covid thread now piling into this one to defend someone who is clearly not doing essential work. Is everyone just so bored they want a fight?

He might not be breaking any laws but if we all bent the rules like that a lot more people would be dying. If I have to work from home as far as I can, so should he.

I don’t think they’ll ever touch some of the songs on the debut but I look forward to giving it a listen later once I’ve fixed the burst pipe.

Has Babs Broccoli ditched Billie Eilish’s song yet?

Stay hydrated

(But lol at the pencil gag!!)

The regional tiered approach gave is the Kent variant. A lesson needs to be learnt. You can’t carve the UK mainland up successfully. It’s not about punishing areas.

That was a chance occurrence that could have happened anywhere.

I saw somewhere that Wales as a a whole is back to no excess deaths. So yes you clearly can carve it up.

It’s a lot easier complying with a lockdown when there is a clear reason for it than when there isn’t.

I think a return to a differentiated approach would be a good idea.

we haven’t yet trained the virus to stop spreading when it reaches an arbitrary geographical border.

Well, we clearly have!

Why should people in the sticks have to suffer just because people in a distant city can’t follow a few simple rules?

We could quite easily open rural Wales as normal, barring a few sensible precautions and border controls.

It’s all a bit like at school when the whole class got detention.

another few months of edging…. Just imagine the eruption when she finally touches the tip….

Lol but how do you know it’s not a he and/or I’m not a she?

It’s nice to see a bit of discussion here by the way. My understanding of the stats is that my home county now has ZERO new cases of Covid. Where is the rationale for continued full lockdown here?

most phones are waterproof these days

My waterproof iphone started threatening me with dire consequences when I tried to charge it with dampness in the charging socket

How long is it going to be before it is (a) legally and (b) morally OK for me to drive five hours from Wales to England to get laid (with or without protection)?

erm… that should be *whom*…

Shouldn’t that be “with whom”?

Deleted

Wish I’d kept my 69 Fulvia coupe.

More than that, I wish I’d bought one of the Integrales I test-drove and rejected. Silly money now.

But the environment is thanking me for both of those bad decisions.

I thought said ladies lived together anyway…

Tickles me that you thought maybe the people of this parish might not come down on the idea like a ton of bricks 🙂

I say, go for it. It’s not doing any harm.

Cloggy: YT? FE? Do you fancy a ride after lockdown, you seem like a mine of information and I would love to compare notes! (E.g. Golf Links wtf?!)

Ambrose: I’d take the Trod over the Claerwen track in the dry. The grassy descent at the end is fun. But then I am quite special 🙂

OP:

Doethie: Now that the council have improved the track from the chapel to the youth hostel, making both the climb and the descent less fun, it might be worth climbing up through Nantllwyd farm instead. View at top is to die for. Then a fun blast down the hill on a steep grassy path to join the Doethie track a third of the way along missing out the biggest boggy section.

Irfon: My favourite descent there is down the Nant y Glo valley. It’s “wobble 2nd descent” on Strava. Not techy but fun. White Bridge descent is the best way down to Abergwesyn but isn’t worth diverting for. If you then go up and over towards Llyn Brianne on the forestry road from Abergwesyn (the bridleway over the moor is a down only) at the end there is a fun steep bridleway to the lake avoiding ruts the size of the Grand Canyon. That said, if you haven’t had your fill of scenery, you could take the road to Tregaron and go over the Devil’s Staircase. Don’t try the bridleway south from Dolgoch youth hostel. It’s a nightmare. There is a nice path next to the road down to Soar y Mynydd chapel which is more fun than tarmac. Pretty much all of this is a bit sideways for a north-south route though…

While the Doethie Valley is iconic, and lovely, for riding smiles I would actually be tempted to head down through Crychan Forest instead…

I’ve been working on the perfect route in mid-Wales for years and basically there isn’t one.

They only resurfaced the bottom of the Tywi track after you leave the forest. Lol to driving a car down it 🙂

I assumed this would be a dry summer ride when the fords are manageable. If not, the Doethie will be a slog too. You don’t ride it for the riding I know, but at least when it’s dry you can roll down most of it.

I hate the Claerwen track with a passion. Probably suit those who like that newfangled gravel thing.

I would hate to ride wales without any Elan valley.

It’s hard to know what to say without knowing where you’re coming from or heading to and what you want to ride …

Personally I would go down the Tywi track from strata Florida to get to the doethie. But that would miss out the irfon. And give you very wet feet.

Hafren isn’t exactly packed with fun.

Maybe come down Mach to Nant yr Arian, devils bridge. Or across from elan valley.

But are you trying to go direct in one hit, or?????

sanctimonious passive aggression masquerading as faux concern for people you don’t agree with

You’re reading quite a lot into me just saying how I feel.

Yes I do worry about this. People paying lip service but not putting their money where their mouth is. Including me. That bothers me.

Pondo, are you this aggressive and unpleasant in real life?

How many people here rigorously vet their groceries, cars, phones and clothing for slave content?

There will be some.

I worry that so much energy goes into symbolism (flags and statues and virtue signalling) rather than actually doing something.

I think what I was trying to say yesterday is simply that many other countries manage to have a sense of national pride that is not toxic but positive, and so could England.

A flag for them represents the present rather than the past.

Ingerland flag wavers are hardly celebrating slavery or national superiority anyway (when did England last win anything?).

I’ve lived in a few countries and I haven’t seen them put themselves down like the English do. But England really isn’t a bad place and neither are its people.

The countries I’ve lived in besides England include Switzerland, Germany and Sweden which are often held up as role models. But they’re also far from perfect. The way they get portrayed in the media here doesn’t tally with the reality I saw. Tbh my experience is that the four countries are more or less interchangeable.

So, people of England, celebrate the many good things about your country and push for change in the things that aren’t.

While it’s good to appreciate stuff like that it doesn’t make us particularly special, certainly in Europe we are probably behind several nations on most if not all of those measures.

Do you have to be special to love your country?

Do you get uptight about, say, Greek people being proud to be Greek?

It only seems to be the English who torture themselves like this.

I think it’s weird.