I can’t remember exactly what I said, but it was along the lines of, um, it was intended as just a bit of jokey bantz and a compliment to boot, so was hardly sexual harassment, and I’ve had worse myself and not been bothered.

I will probably be banned for repeating that, but have done so because I really don’t think it’s offensive or misogynistic.

I think there is a large percentage of the population (not just male) who would think just that. You/we might not agree with them, but I think that opinion should be heard. It’s valid. Defend to the death etc.

Maybe I just hate to see people kicking the underdog. Educate, convince. Don’t condemn, mock.

Yes, I suppose I was trolling. I’m missing a best friend and a wife and some evenings are pretty lonely. But you all seem to have little better to do than kick a troll so it’s a public service really… 😂

PS JonV: I have a lot of respect for you but I have actually made it clear where I stand in both cases.

you say you pretended to be unpc (twice?), and don’t understand what people assumed you aren’t pc, and whine about it?

I’m not whining. Just pointing out the hypocrisy. You can’t be a champion of rights and tolerance and then (a) deny people the right to express a contrary opinion and (b) slag someone else off.

If you really care about others, being nice to actual people on this forum will make more of a difference.

If someone says something stupid, disagree with it but don’t slag them off. Not everybody is gifted with the ability to express themselves clearly at all times, especially when tired, drunk or on the phone.

My methods might be obscure but the discussion has ended up in the right place. I agree with what Ernie said.

PS There was a homophobic comment earlier and nobody noticed. I guess we’re all part of one of society’s problems.

Nobody is questioning the amount of work involved in organising a proper race.

Forgive me for turning up to the forum in a short skirt. I must be asking for it.

One observation is that all the posters that say insurance etc isn’t necessary put together have organised exactly zero races for public entry…..

Nobody has said that though.

Perfect world. Private woodland. Own risk. Would be nice. Is all.

I’m far more of a risk chasing KOMs.

Cars racing on public roads? Er, amateur road rallying. No closures. Assume nobody else could possibly be on the road at night.

Molgrips. We’re talking xc, not enduro. Even if you do descend faster that doesn’t necessarily increase the risk. I rarely crash when racing because I’m concentrating. Public are less likely to stray onto a track with people coming down it, or tape along it, and marshals on it. Etc etc.

But the thread has strayed. I thought we were talking about grassroots xc, not just any xc. Grass roots for me would be marking out a course and getting 30 locals along one summer evening in a wood where there are no other users.

We can crash into horses outside of races, and we can hurt ourselves walking down the street. Without insurance. I’m not convinced racing increases the risks.

I know the world is the way it is, but that’s no reason not to think it doesn’t need to be that way.

Those race organisers who get to ride their own race are very lucky. The organisers I’ve known have been way too stressed and busy. But I still don’t rate the “put on your own race then” argument. It’s not that simple.

I almost organised an xc event but it was too much effort and expense for the likely numbers.

I typed out a long post but got tied up in knots. It’s so much easier to go full woke than to navigate the minefield and look for nuance (shades of grey, who defines offence, where is the line, role of context, absolute vs relative, crowding out more serious stuff).

Some good points made above though. If I did offend anyone, I do apologise. Not my intention. Seems it’s easy to do.

I don’t know where you draw the line. I’d never say anything like that. But I know people who would, and I also know people who would take it as it was intended.

I don’t mind saying, I reported the post.

Fair play. I’m not sure why it needed reporting or moderating though. It’s a common viewpoint that can’t really be suppressed and is easily countered.

I don’t care whether others think it’s acceptable, it’s not.

That’s not very democratic. Is it right to deny them a voice? Wouldn’t it be better to persuade?

As I said before how bad does it have to be before it is sexual harassment? Do the comments have to be more sexualised? Mild touching never really hurts? C’mon, where’s your line?

Legalising rape? Why did the straw man cross the road?

This is a big part of the debate. Where DO you draw the line? The lower (higher?) you draw it, the fewer people you will have onside. And the more the big things will be drowned out by the little things.

Your views are misogynist, simple as.

I haven’t expressed my views. And before you or someone else leaps on that, I can do that if I want. Did you never have debates at school where you had to argue the unpopular side?

The suppression/cancellation/abuse of dissenting views on this site irritates me sometimes and that’s why I chip in. Call me a **** for that if you want but it’s who I am.

I’ve no idea what was deleted but this line is always a great shibboleth of an Olympic-grade bellend. See also, “triggered” and “snowflake” and any other pissant whining when someone gets called out for being a fin du cloche.

How anyone could take that line at face value I really do not know.

If you find STW too PC then I suggest you **** off to Pistonheads where you’ll fit right in.

This is my point. You’re all falling over yourselves to be wokest of opinion, yet consider it acceptable to abuse actual people on this site.

It’s all good fun until something goes wrong. If a rider gets hurt then it is bad, if someone out for a stroll with their dog gets hurt then you are in the shit. The rules are to protect the organiser as much as the rider, the walker or their dog.

Yes, very true, but that’s not my objection.

The risks are the same, race or no race, so it’s not very logical for liability to change.

And adults should be able to say “I accept full responsibility for whatever happens to me” without it being undermined. Disclaimers should mean something.

We don’t sue the forestry every time we break a bone, do we? (I’d be rich)

organise your own race then

Bit of a flawed argument as there’s little chance of riding in your own race…

Was just putting the other point of view, held by quite possibly the majority in the real world.

Turns out this mildly Clarksonian take was too offensive to remain on view.

Yet it is fine to call people and their spouses stupid **** on here.

It’s PC gone mad, I tell you.

It’s so sad that a bunch of consenting adults can’t just go and have fun in the woods without worrying about insurance and liability.

It would be exactly the same risks as every uninsured group ride we all do week in, week out.

We’re allowed to have sex without insurance, and that comes with all kinds of risks.

Crazy, crazy world.

Anyway, that’s why grass roots racing has died.

Earlier this year I fell head over heels in love. Having done it a couple of times before, you’d think I would have known better.

My nine year old did it on a 20” hardtail.
I’ve raced it on a 100mm xc hardtail.
I’ve ridden it on a rigid single speed.
How cool am I?

(Mostly reds and blues though. For the blacks I do prefer some bounce.)

How hard can it be simply to switch universally to individual unisex toilets and changing rooms?

I don’t imagine many people of any kind really like getting their bits out in public.

Innerleithen has exactly what you need

I’ve spent hours poring over my map of the West Country but I can’t find it anywhere🤷‍♂️ Is it any good for surfing?

Thanks everyone. I shall check out Butlins tomorrow.

Well yes, there are only about two houses available in the whole of Devon at the moment.

I’m not averse to earning my descents and a bit of scenery, but is Exmoor not a bit XC-ish?

I do love sliding down a steep twisty hand-built South Wales mud slide…

(there’s not much that vaccines can cause that COVID can’t also do – but worse). I’d suggest she ought to talk this over with a well-informed mainstream scientist/doctor

I agree

@morecashthandash for the record I agreed with your post earlier but the rest of my post was deemed inflammatory and removed.

Do you prefer village life or a small town.

I can do either

it’s ridiculous to rule out Quantocks

Ok, I’ll reconsider them. Only then i’m a long way from surfville.

Is there enough fair-game stuff around porlock/minehead to keep me happy?

Crispo – unfortunatly no she does not in any way. there is no evidence and no sound argument for putting children at risk by not vaccinating them.

She does for herself. She has comorbidities which change the balance of risk. As may many of the protestors, which is why we shouldn’t be so ready to judge.

I don’t see thousands of Asian people out in the streets telling other people they’re idiot sheeple for taking it.

I imagine most of those protesting are not actually saying that. I also imagine that on a demo not everyone agrees with everything said by the people with loudspeakers and that people tend to get carried away and that some are just out to cause trouble anyway. I also imagine that there are channels within other communities through which misinformation is spread, maybe just not as visibly. I’d be very surprised if any of these demos convince anyone suddenly not to take the vaccine, whereas more personal, private interactions might.

I think the relatively densely populated multi-generational households including older people with limited English skills/community engagement outside their ethnic ‘bubble’ etc is more of an issue, and they have more reason than most to mistrust the government/authority.

That’s quite a big assumption. I imagine (again!) that many of those on the demos have similar issues. It is also perhaps a bit of a stretch to argue that old people with poor English will not have a grasp of the gravity of what is a global situation.

Why do people make excuses for ethnic minorities not taking the vaccine, but condemn others? There does seem to be some kind of racism in there. I think it would be better to have some understanding of all of these groups.

People can counter anti-vaxxers’ views without vilifying them. It’s much more adult and much more effective.

My decision to have the vaccine was swung partly by the arguments put forward by the kinder and more balanced members of this forum. Not the ones frothing at the mouth.

Thanks!

Yes I’ve spent a couple of very enjoyable mornings in Lee woods, shame it’s such a small area. Could stick to jumping and progress to the dirt jumps in Barnstaple park I suppose 😱

And pedal over to Exmoor on the xc bike.

I just hate the idea of having to drive to ride, and this is my chance to minimise that.

Ask me the question and I’ll answer openly and respectfully.

Not entirely sure what you’re getting at. But basically what I’m alluding to is, for example, how come people think it ok to have a pop at white people who choose not to vaccinate but not ethnic communities?

Surely we should treat all the groups who may be putting themselves and others at risk the same?

There seems to me to be some cowardice in the baying mob as they pick the easy target.

p7eaven, could you READ any more into a single word?

Self-righteous elite: the ones who know best and feel in a position to ridicule those with other views.

How about a bit of tolerance?

Or are minds already closed they they are just selfish idiots?

100%.

My ex is very much against vaccination and is busy frittering away my savings on supplements and alternative therapies when she could get modern medicine for free, but she has sound arguments and evidence for her approach, and ultimately that’s her choice and her right. I don’t agree with it and I don’t like it, but I have to accept it.

A handful of anti-vaxxers aren’t going to make a difference to this virus anyway. They don’t need to be cancelled, and nobody deserves to be vilified in the way they are.

Why is the self-righteous elite not angry instead with the larger unjabbed communities where the problems really lie?

How do you make the video show up?

Megadeth:
Peace sells

New Young Pony Club:
The architect of love

Above roof solution is genius. Way better than an old bedsheet held down with a couple of planks.

Are you sure about a hammock?

My back always found our hammock a kind of purgatory rivalled only by the deck chairs, whereas the swing seat was made in heaven.

I didn’t say all city dwellers are oiks. I used the term to refer to selfish, badly behaved people with no common sense. People like the Rangers fans yesterday for example.

The majority of city dwellers could probably be relied on to show some restraint and take sensible precautions without needing extreme restrictions.

I referred to the inner city because there are more people there in a small space. In the country there are fewer people. Transmission is therefore lower. Hence lower infection rates. Lower risk. That’s hardly controversial.

Not all areas are the same, yet the rules are the same for everyone. They will therefore inevitably be overly restrictive on those in some areas.

If you live in a sparsely populated area with only one case in 1,000 square miles, the risk is not really very high is it?

It’s easy to poke holes in a brief comment on a forum, especially when you have preconceived hostility towards the poster. But you know as well as I do that even the most cautious of you on here would be even more cautious if you lived in Bombay.

ah, the Edinburgh defence.

Ah, the point of order to shut down any debate.

Ten years next week. Very few.

Off to bed now though. Sleep tight.

I think he can fight his own corner but I doubt it was aimed at those with a genuine reason to be extra cautious.

I think it’s more the doom and gloom merchants who greet every slight relaxation of the rules as the beginning of the end.

I remember when my wife had chemo and trying to stop her picking up any infections. It was very stressful. Wish you all the best.

To all the bell ends on here (of which there are few, thank god) try walking a mile in somebody else’s shoes, you selfish ****

Aimed at me? What do you know about my shoes? And it goes both ways, which was kind of my point. It’s all too easy for all of us to look at it only based on our own situation, whether that be urban or rural, young or old, shielding or not. Two sides to every story. No absolute right and wrong.

Dog whistle? Bigot?! Not a clue.

smug attitude and rude dismissal of other opinions

I think you’re just not getting my sense of humour. I routinely send up both sides. Don’t take me so seriously. I can’t put smileys next to everything.

as if people who live in rural areas are saints is so laughable

Oh, come on. Did I say that? I imagine all age groups in all areas are equally good/bad. But it is in the cities, among the young, where it matters most. Out here there is so much space and no virus, so not the same need for precautions.

Speaking as someone who has had covid you come across as a right **** ****

I haven’t had Covid AFAIK. But if you mean that you have, then I wouldn’t wear it as a badge of honour.

I’m beyond debating with you. I’ve tried to give benefit of the doubt, defended the right to have a different opinion as recently as today, despite having reservations. I think you’ve just used up the last of the runway for me.

Oh, I’m such a naughty schoolboy. Straight to the back of the class because I still haven’t come round to your point of view. Yet it’s fine that you haven’t come round to mine?

The same politicians who have been repeatedly late to act, costing us thousands of lives, dooming us to avoidable long restrictions on our liberties, wreaking havoc on our education and health systems, and temporarily wrecking our economy?

Thats right “Let the bodies pile up” attitude for you and them.

Rolls eyes…

Not everybody in the UK lives in England. But either way, yes, the politicians you voted for, whichever party it was.

Chilling out doesn’t have to mean going out and coughing on random strangers, you know? It can just mean sensibly getting on with life at minimal risk to yourself or others. Which is very easy to do around here.

inner-city oiks

Do you include all inner city folks in that. Those that keep the buses and supermarkets and even hospitals going and can’t afford to live out in your nice rural areas and commute in? The multigenerational families that culturally are at the higher risk, because their kids go to school and pick it up and then pass it on to the parents and grannies?

Apart from just lightening up, how about you quote me right? I said “irresponsible inner-city oiks”. Big difference!

As for the idea of citydwellers being unable to afford to live here in the sticks, I think you’ll find it is generally the other way around.

Multigenerational families – yes, very woke, but surely most will have had it by now? And isn’t the big risk there that they aren’t getting vaccinated? Which is their choice? Is it not time for some individual responsibility?

We’ve all had to suffer for the greater good for well over a year. Now it is time to chill out. Even the politicians think so.

But the virus is there to spread, and it’s spreading. 100+ students and staff at a local secondary school a couple of weeks ago, the whole school closed, subsequent transmission put us top of the national league for infections.

But not everyone lives or works in a virus-ridden urban hellhole. Maybe that is why most of you here, and the government and the scientists and SAGE and so on, seem so overcautious to many of us who don’t.

I live in an area where the virus never really arrived, living a life where I am unlikely to be exposed to it anyway, and I am sick of complying with restrictions aimed at irresponsible inner-city oiks which are almost completely pointless for us out here.

Yes, we’re lucky, and yes, it could still easily be brought here from the cities. But even then the risk of it spreading widely is tiny.

I’m convinced the risk of catching Covid around here even at the height of the epidemic was lower than it will ever be in the big cities even after full vaccination. It’s using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

So thank goodness we’re almost out the other end.

where are the folks that were demanding we open up two weeks ago? Wonder what their thoughts are now?

I wasn’t one of them, but I don’t see the need to panic.

In most of the UK, the virus just isn’t there to spread.

Surely we are now at a point where those who want to stay home and take extreme precautions can, and those who don’t can take their chances.

Elan Valley. Some nav required but you can’t go too far wrong. Stunning place and some great not too techy descents.

Premier inn or at least sleep in a van unless you are a very heavy sleeper. Personally I hate waking up cold at 6 am on race morning and queuing for a stinky bog even if I haven’t been woken at 2 am by loudly whispering drunks.

Race-wise, there’s a lot of pushing up to stages there. Make sure your calves can walk up hills.

If you lack natural insulation like me, take enough warm clothing for the hour-plus waits at some stages.