We do have to expect that whatever we do out there, there will always be somebody who doesn't like it…

I don't want to sound like SfB BUT just because somebody gets pissed off isn't necessarily a good enough reason not to do it. Most things involve an element of compromise, you can't please all the people, all the time.

You have to go a little beyond whether "a few" people might be pissed off and look at whether that is outwieghed by the benefits of any change. Also, folks can get pissed off without it being right to be so. Sorry, words to convey this well are failing me a bit 8-)

Edric, read into the subject a bit more – civil prosecution, so no police, court action needed by private individuals, legal fees etc etc and then quantify what financial value any "damage" and its rectification would amount to. A few shovels of dirt / gravel to make right? Peanuts. Worth taking to court? I doubt it.

They can't bring a class action against all MTBers and recover all damages because we are not one entity. A rider could only be taken to court for the damage they caused (and it could be proved that they were responsible for). I just don't think that's ever likely to happen. Has it?

As for the Council getting involved, I suggested that the most pertinent word there is "could" i.e. they aren't likely to. Certainly not in my experience.

Bear in mind as well that I'm talking about the legal / RoW definition of a footpath. In practice this might be a ribbon of dirt, a broad path, a farmers unmade road or even a metalled road. This is one of the ridiculous aspects of the RoW situation in England, it bears no relation to the suitablility of the path/trail/road for the type of use legally afforded.

And just to be crystal clear, I accept that not all paths/trails/roads will be suitable for MTB use. I'd even go so far as to accept that some existing ones where MTBers are permitted might not be suitable either. All I'd hope in such instances is that rather than loosing an existing right by reclassifaction efforts could be made to bring the path up to a reasonable standard, suitable for it's existing designation.

Finally, I've never allowed anyone to tar me with the behaviours of others. All this "representative of MTBers" is a bit of a smokescreen in my opinion. Just like I don't think all car drivers / dog walkers / horse riders are funkers, but there are individuals amongst the "group" who will behave like that. You don't legislate for the lowest common denominator, you do so for the majority.

I'm prepared to be corrected by someone who knows better, however:

Rights of way do not "lapse", they have to be extinguished. Unless they have been extinguished they will (should) be recorded on the Definitive Map held by the local authority (often accessible on line). NB: there maybe two copies a "working" one and the "original", absolutely definitive one. The latter often looks like a well worn piece of flimsy paper that's been stuffed in and out of pockets / wallets / etc far too many times. "Original" has precedence over "working".

As someone else has said, whether a highway is adopted or not is not strictly relevant to whether there is a right of access over it. Adoption (to paraphrase) indicates / assigns who is responsible for the highways upkeep, maintenance etc. The Highways Department in the local authority are worth consulting in this respect.

I stand to be corrected if anyone knows better.

As for ranting on the internet about the outrageuos treatment of your missus / her mates. Pfft! If you were that pissed off you'd have gone round and done something about it (whether it was the right thing to do or not).

Also, as others have said, just because there's a sign doesn't mean it's legal / appropriate / correct. That's why you need to check with the Definitive Map / Highways Dept. Some folks once diverted a BW out the back of Cookridge / Leeds. Lovely homemade signs, alternative route offered etc. However, local authority sorted it out because they had no right ot do so and had not gone through the correct process.

It's on the SingletrAction front page if that helps at all 8-)

http://www.singletraction.co.uk/index.php

Mr Agreeable describes the ins and outs pretty well.

TBH it all boils down to – build without permission and it's likely to get torn down sooner or later, get permission and you avoid this problem.

Of course, if you ask and get turned down your hand is shown. Don't ask and go stealth about it and you could "get away with it".

Ultimately bear in mind though that the Land Owner / Manager is reponsible for their land and what happens on it, to a great extent, whether they know about it beforehand or not. It means they will be liable and whilst you might accept all the inherent risks etc (i.e. you stack it and break yourself) some other "user" might assume it is legit, use it, spang themselves and sue the land owner / manager.

If the landowner can be shown to have known about the stuff, or to have not (in the eyes of the law) done enough to control their land and activities on it (and this might include by the act of omission, not finding your "stuff") then they can be found liable and suffer consequences (fines, compensation etc).

You expose them to this risk by your actions.

I always go for permission, for the reasons above and several others. I do a lot of stuff with Forestry Commission and whilst I disagree with lots of what they do, at times, the issue of getting permission up front is one I accept.

Other people's opinions and approaches may vary.

A lot of this discussion focuses on "footpaths". This can mean different things to different people (i.e. the RoW definition of a FP, or paths that aren't ones where biking is permited/tolerated etc). Personally, I'd like a right of access to all suitable tracks / paths / footpaths / trails / roads etc.

I'm not advocating a right to roam over any surface, wherever it might be.

However, I generally agree with some folks comments here that the likelihood of meaningful change is very low for all sorts of reasons. Not apathy or defeatism, just realism in trying times.

I think I'm giving a good example of exactly where the lines are blurred.

You are now but you weren't before ;-)

However, unless I misunderstand your example, you're talking about a farmer's garden surely? Not what most would consider "farmland" or "fields" in the context of this discussion?

I don't think anyone is advocating riding through anyone's back garden, and to make an argument based on such a superficial example isn't appropriate, IMO. Taking examples to extreme degrees isn't usually constructive or appropriate, or do you not perceive a fundamental difference between the two (gardens / farmland)?

THen again this is the internet "home to reasonable debate" ;-)

The argument (as I see it) is to ride any/everywhere but with sensitivity and responsibility. Accepting that it would mean you most likely wouldn't ride through someone's personal, immediate garden where it ran a reasonable risk of interfering with their lives / quality of etc.

There's a big difference between that sort of approach and making your way along a farm track through farmland. I don't think anyone is arguing to ride through the middle of crops etc either.

….but I just ride where I like anyway. So far, nobody has ever tried to stop me

And that's half (or even most of) the point isn't it? Whilst technically illegal and there are clearly some instances of problems it isn't really akin to the situation at the time of the Trespass (i.e. there was a greater degree of prohibition and enforecement of it) is it? I don't particularly know as I'm no great student of history.

I agree it'd be great to have proper laws about access but there's not that great a driver behind the need for change when you're not getting thrown off every random parcel of land across the nation. I'm not looking to argue for apathy, just mentioning what I see as a reason for less passion being devoted to the issue.

Look at the BBT, years of snails pace (tedious?) work to achieve their (in the end) positive outcomes. It's all (or a lot) of bureaucratic, process orientated stuff. Doesn't enflame as much passion as a heavy handed keeper turfing you off his Lordships land ;-)

BTW I'm not knocking BBT either, I think their work and successes are great 8-)

still busy oogling Batty on the cover

same here

Is she engaged? looks like a ring on the left hand

Jesus, I'm hardly going to go all TJ about it but get a life, eh? It's a woman, she looks vaguely alright in the pic, does it really warrant any more attention than that?

Hey ho ;-S

I got halfway through it but then got distracted by children / bedtime / food etc. It seemed to be saying much of what I already believe; the access laws of England are an arse, based on outdated and outmoded concepts and should be ignored, I ride where I want and try to ride appropriately and sensitively, the herd mentality of people on bikes is not always a good thing, concentration of too many people in one place is not a good idea.

TBH, I didn't need an article, I need a campaign to get behind. And no, I won't be doing it because I'm too busy with other stuff, be it work, family or SingletrAction. However, I'd be happy to help if/where/when I can and so would others within the orgnaisation.

NB: I only read half the article, but hey, it's the internet, the home of half baked, poorly formed and spurious opinion based on some half read, quarter understood information ;-)

Looking good 8-)

Mosiguard isn't bad as a repellant. It's based on a plant extract unlike DEET which is pretty aggressive chemically / on kids etc.

Prophylactic use of antihistamines like others have mentioned.

Horseflies are feckers though :-(

Aiming to achieve the same thing as moredirt.com?

Not that it matters. There are plenty of places on the web that do the same "thing" either better, worse or just a bit differently for all sorts of info.

You might have it covered but I would worry about the reliability and currency of information harvested from a bunch of randoms on the web (no disrespect ;-)

There's a certain guidebook came out not too long ago and I can spot where all the info for a particular region has been harvested from a couple of sites I know. That'd be fine if it was up to date and accurate, sadly not ;-) Certainly they got the geology wrong at a number of locations.

I'm not knocking anyone for trying but there's no point ignoring the potential deficiencies and actual pitfalls.

Missing:

Yorkshire; Stainburn, Wharncliffe, Guisborough
Lancashire; Lee Quarry, Crag(g) Quarry, Billinge Woods

The extent of trails and their degree of construction are all varied but there's a few missing. How that fits with what you're intending to do / provide, I don't know.

TBH, I'd recommend you buy a couple of the recent guidebooks that have attempted to do what you also seem to be aiming at. Then, if not just straightforwardly copying out the spots they list, at least use it as a cross check.

There's some info on some to the spots listed above at http://www.singletraction.org.uk

Another vote for the gamma. The only "improvement" I could think of would be to the switch so it can't be accidentally turned on when rammed into a pack etc.

Go on streetmap.co.uk, postion the arrow on the map and click the text at the bottom of the map saying something like "convert to co-ordinates", that gives you the post code.

Not only a free (well, free if you dig / push a barrow for a bit) entry into the "Dig for a Pig" (a Ragley, Blue one) competition but every volunteer (member or not) attending on the day will get at least one sachet of Fenwick's FS-1 bike cleaner / degreaser (courtesy of the kind folk at Zyro).

So far we're expecting 10 people (see this thread http://singletraction.frankencrank.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3216 ). That's not a bad turnout but another few would probably see all the work done, or very nearly. The sooner it's done, the sooner it's open to ride and the sooner we can move onto new and exciting projects in the woods.

It would be great to see 20 people there.

If you're coming bring food and water, forecast is peachy 8-) Maybe even a floppy, flowery hat and suncream ;-)

Come for an hour, half the day or all of it. Digs usually last for up to 6 hours but we'd rather see a new face for 30 minutes than none. Bring a bike and have a ride before or after. The whole wood is riding well given all this dry summery weather.

And if you see us (we're really hard to miss, "SingletrAction" T shirts, barrows, tools, digging and building) then please say "hi" and stop to see what's going on. Nowt worse than being ignored by folks riding the trails a few yards away, especially when you helped build them ;-S

Plenty of tools will be provided on the day, there's no need to bring any of your own. If you've got a barrow or watering can / bucket they would be good though. More barrows (so long as we have enough people) means a better day and as it's so dry the surfacing needs watering before packing down so it firms up.

If you are interested and want any info / intend to come please post up here, or on the aformentioned thread or just email (timsellors@googlemail.com).

Ta

T 8-)

Unless you can drive it (making no judgements) you might want to hire it with an operator. You might already be intending to. A good driver is worth the extra cost (IMO) as quality of work and production rate is far better than some punter waggling the levers (no offence).

When we've hired them before a 2 tonne (ish) machine plus operator, fuel, delivery etc has been £180 all in. Usually get a 10 hour day out of the guy (although that's 8 hours on site, an hour each end loading and travelling).

Consider how big a machine you want. No point paying over the odds for a 5 tonne or bigger if you're just scrapping and mounding soil. A 2 tonne with the right buckets will achieve the same and probably be less £.

Also consider the access. JCB 3CX type stuff (typical building site kit, front loading shovel, backactor, looks like your standard big rear, small front wheeled tractor) isn't usually all that versatile for trail building (IMO). A small, rubber or steel tracked machine that can rotate through 360 degrees is much more useful / versatile.

Remember also if you need to move any real volume of material they're both pretty average. A 360 can only cast double the reach of his boom, say 5 or 6 m (I'm starting to guess badly now ;-) ) and certainly won't be able to carry all that much. Plus they're slow if they have to track back and forth over any (vaguely) significant distances. All lost digging time tracking between different work spots.

Some form of mini-dumper, self loading skip barrow or the like can be good for this. Either to carry muck between borrow pit and construction site or to pick up surfacing and take to trail. Self loaders save you having to get the machine to come back again and load (shovelling it yourself is a bugger). We've hired self loading, tracked dumpers for £80/day before and driven them ourselves. Driven is a misnomer though, they go all of about 2mph ;-(

Dunno if that'll help or hinder 8-)

Bit of professional experience at work, bit of volunteer experience trail building. Other's opinions may vary. For some mechanized, plaqnt is an even bigger penis-extension than the proverbial sports car ;-)

Ah, no, I think you've misinterpreted / I haven't explained very well. And I was trying to be encouraging ;-)

I meant the number of people prepared to help make trails happen was small. This is significantly different to the number of people who will come along and use a trail once it is built. However, they are the ones that might well say they don't like it, or it should have been like *this* and *that* etc. It is in those instances you need a thick skin.

You could always go along and just help make *something* happen. Even if it is not exactly what "you want". It can be a rewarding experience making something, anything happen and then seeing it being enjoyed. Plus, by being in the game, if/when an opportunity arises that might be more like the trails you'd specifically like to see then you are there to "exploit" it.

Re: "exclusion", I hate to sound like someone's dad / grandpa / some smartarse but with trails there is never a true-er truism than "you can't please all the people all the time …." and "vive la difference".

If it were me I'd get involved, if only to find out whether I liked being involved in the first place. At least then if you decide not to be you've done so with first hand knowledge.

Must.get.off.soap.box.now. 8-)

I suspect any form of launch will be very different to the type of affair I imagine you have in mind. Given MTB-ing people, and the even smaller subset of people prepared to do something other than riding their bikes, is small (and teeny tiny, respectively) then if you are serious about trying to do something you ought to sieze anything that seems to have even the vaguest whiff of usefulness at any opportunity.

Also, the ability to see everyone's PoV and accept compromise for the sake of achieving something is a skill that demands constant effort. Plus a skin impervious to anything less than a full tactical nuclear assault ;-)

A lovely bit of advice about advocacy / volunteering / Gresham's Law of Activists:

http://www.imba.org.uk/research_and_reports/EffectiveCampaigning.html

If you want it there's a few ways to try and get it, though they all take rather a lot of hard work, umpteen frustrations and more effort than most have the inclination for 8-)

For what it's worth, the guy doing the pro' build (Phil Saxena) is a nice bloke with riding at the centre of what he does (IMO).

Get involved with whatever volunteer group there is (is there one?) and try to help make good things happen. It's not for everyone but (in a horrendously trite way) if everyone did just a little bit we'd have masses more to play on / use / for all than there is currently.

[hops off soap box ;-) ]

"Ro"

What a peculiar name. Is it some way of making "Robert" or "Roderick" more bearable?

Is everyone happy that this has been graded a red route?

The trail isn't finished, not worth speculating too much about the grading until it is and has the chance to bed in and weather. TBH, you would have been better not riding it if it was clearly "not finished" as a trial in that stage / state of construction needs to be left alone to bed in. Saying that, if there weren't signs etc then how were you to know beforehand and it sounds like it's getting hammer from all sorts anyway. Riders are renown for not giving a toss that a trail is "off limits" for whatever reason and just blazing on through whatever the potential ill affects.

From my limited knowledge of the project only a small area was released to the builder. Better to try and cram in as much as possible and prove the areas potential / demand to motivate and allow further development (which I believe has come off with a second phase being commissioned).

Trails and their difficulty are incredibly subjective. There's just far too many potential variables to ever be able to really, meaningfully categorise difficulty into a a handful of arbitary grades / colour brackets. Arguing whether one is red, black or brown (can you see what I did there ;-) isn't particularly worthwhile. The grade should be treated as a guide. Riders need to exercise continual care and judgement. Just because a trail is at a "centre" or is purpose built doesn't mean everything has been taken care of.

Do I need to say that's all IMO?

Like !00.. says. I used molgrips with a cloth sandwhiched between jaws and metal to prevent marking / damage. Went steady with the molgrips so only applied the least necessary clamping just on the off chance it might damage or deform something.

The screw thru adapter was for Bulb hubs. Doesn't apply to Pro11s as they are separate inserts to each side of the hub.

Circlips are only used to hold the 20mm axle adapters on the hub (for both Pro11s and Bulbs).

They can be a bit of a bugger but will come out. A little lub dripped in and around might help although I managed with out.

thecyclejersey.com

Brian did us proud and was very helpful with graphics / layouts etc and flexible on order numbers (after the first one).

Is it bollocks.

Short, concise, to the point.

LOL

Mk1 PA
Morning Glory
Kobe
Holeshot
Alpine

No pics

Fanboy? Oh dear yes ;-)

I fitted one to my Holeshot and wrote about it here:

http://singletraction.frankencrank.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3192&view=unread#unread

Dunno if it'll help but it's a fascinating read ;-)

I thought they did pewter finish as well but there was an horrendous uplift in price.

"Hello. I love you. Won't you tell me our name?"

The irony of this thread in relation to the usual cars-are-killers / car-cut-me-up-today-the-funker threads that usually abound is laughable to say the least.

Deal with them as you would have others deal with you.

It's just crap design.

Amen to that 8-)

It needs a little air in the tube so it 'knows' which hole to shut off. A quick blow (yes with your mouth, its a new tube isn't it?) is more than enough air for it

Sadly not as I can get *some* air in by covering the schraeder valve port with my thumb (certainly more than a quick "manual puff" ;-) and it still doesn't operate properly. I had heard similar from someone else.

Even if what you said were the fix I'd be pretty dis-chuffed. Track pumps are all about simplicity and ease IMO, tossing around with a couple of quick puffs on the valve to make it works justs shows it's a crock.

Just quite surprised at Blackburn given all the other hand pumps I've had are great.

8-)

Coatsey – you talking about the Topeak? If so, yep, got that. In fact the Joe Blow is schweet. It's the bloody Blackburn that's naff.

Head looks like this:

Just spotted, latest model seems to have a different head:

**** it, I've bought a Spesh' one. Bloody Blackburn ;-(

Whatever helps you get through the day

Within reason, oh aye. But this, this is beyond reason, shirley?

I got one of the older ones off CRC when they were reduced (£70 or £80 IIRC).

Best helmet I've had (previously Bells, Havoc and Delirium I think). The Met is lighter, comfier and just better all round. Like any helmet the fit is personal and subjective.

It's certainly no worse than other helmets of similar or higher price / band.

Sorry, no idea about 2010 models and gel pads (mine came with two of the usual, cloth-type sets).

Do a search, there was another thread about this with lots of info recently.

Squirt came to Chevin Cycles last demo day and were doing your drive train for free (cleaning the whole thing to show how good it was, there were some sparkly chains and blocks on some crackered bikes that day ;-). So far (which isn't that long) it's been great. Quiet and noticably cleaner. Have only just re-applied / topped up so interested to see how it goes from now / for a proper test period.

even sounds[/u] like he knows what he's talking about

Oi! I've emphasised the key word in your statement ;-)

The roller on its side analogy is a good one though.

I cannot take credit for this as I'm paraphrasing Lee McCormack.

It's harder trying to build one and explain how to build them to others. I end up waving my hands around an awful lot ;-)

Riding a PT is one of those things though, when you do it right (and as you're learning "right" might be for brief moments or on very short sections) you can feel that it's right (how very Zen ;-)). Concentrate on what's happening when it feels "right" and then try to repeat. I think it's a bit like the body learning the feeling of gyroscopic balance on a bike for the first time, there's masses of processing going on under the surface of your conscious efforts.

Whatever, the feeling of building momentum over a series of well shaped and spaced rollers, then brap-ing through a good berm after is awesome. When you get it it doesn't matter that you're bezzing round like a hamster in a wheel on a length of track / trail so insignificant you'd never notice if it was laid out in a line on a "proper" ride. They really are addicitive.

McCormack's advice on the way to free speed is to go as light as possible on the front wheel / face of berms. First off go light on your hands, then as you get the hang try lifting the wheel before it gets to the face. The ultimate (wheels sort of on the groud way) is to manual the rollers, so it's just the rear wheel being driven through the legs on the back face for speed.

My manuals are sh*te though ;-)

I've been trying to go as low as possible on the bike as well, which helps confidence and balance, IMO.