Did you hypothecate this donation to the forum only?

Not at all. I’m not paying for anything, just bunging a bit in the tips jar for general support. Tbh, I am happy just for it to cover a couple of coffees.
I suppose that I felt that there are two components to stw, but with ever decreasing demand for one, that looks like it is a finite thing.
The future is very uncertain and it seemed a bit silly to me to focus on one component of the system, when there is a strong possibility that it is the failing one. In whatever passes for early morning logic, I felt that a way for users to indicate their individual preference for components was by differentiating them at the point of sale.
If you want to shove it all in one pot after, then I suppose that is fine, but at least you would know what the customer base actually wants.

This was never me saying that this place is crap and x place is better. That did not happen, despite any insinuation that it had.
It was more about the forum seeming to be an afterthought for stw, rather than setting it’s foundations properly in order to better realise its future potential.
However, I fully appreciate that presently both components re-enforce each other in ways that may not be so obvious to us users.

Thanks Drac, looks interesting!

Couger, That makes sense, re outside perspective of the entity that is STW vs forum use, article clicks and mag downloads.
However, You seem to be misreading me, but then, the nuance of conversation does not come across well over the internet!
I am not sure I said that place x was better, just that it did some things differently that make a better user experience.
In fact, overall, I think I was pretty clear that I prefer this place and want to support it’s future.

The argument isn’t just about £20 per year

oh I think it is very much so with cdoc

No, it really isn’t.
I have already donated more than the cost of an annual subscription.

My issue (apart from being bored, as you said) is that is is impossible to support the site without being forced to support the magazine. People say they see them as one entity, but that is not really the case for me as the magazine is far more reliant on the forum than the forum is on the mag.

As said by Mark, STW is almost the biggest and best cycling website in the interwebs.
This is good.
.. but it runs like crap for many, has somewhat well documented ad serving issues, and is a bit of a bug fest with things appearing, disappearing, popping up, popping under and generally making everything run a bit slow. I simply cannot use this site on mobile.
This is bad for many.

Lets be honest, the future of publishing is online. Paper distribution is becoming a thing of the past.
In ten years there may not be a magazine at all, but there certainly could be an amazing website that blows the competition out of the water. But not of we keep throwing money at a magazine that many online are simply unaware of the existence of.

Ok, I get the argument that subs for a better forum would be bad for stw, as they would lose a number of digital mag subs to downgrades to forum only, but I’m not sure that people would do that unless they really had no interest in the magazine.
I also know that everyone says ‘without the mag, there is no forum’ I have no idea why this should be the case.
I really think it might be the other way around.

But if a number would make you happy, then for an smoothly running, accessible on all formats, pretty much bug free version of the forum, and with whatever workable upgrades are wanted by the majority of the userbase, then how about two thirds of the current cheapest sub price? Or the current sub price and bump up the magazine subscription a bit?

I would happily pay that if you just went back to the old classifieds format, but with the new image hosting and the better search options (:

I’ve often thought pinkbike content with STW forum would be the killer website. I go to pinkbike for actual content but occasionally (less than I used to) here for advice etc.

Must say, I have also longingly thought about SinglePinkTrackBikeWorld.com
That would be the one site to rule them all …

Also, Yay, the quote toolbar is back!

Sorry, when I log in I get taken to a profile page. Never really bothered to look and see what can be turned off in the settings. Apologies if it is easier to turn off tracking than I thought it was, but I have just looked and can’t find it.
Secondly, stop making it about money. I already donate to the site because it is worth something.
The idea was that maybe you could gain additional revenue by allowing access to a smooth running forum, as there seem to plenty of people who only see STW as that. Many have no idea that there is a magazine out there at all, and would not be interested in it if they were.
But they might like the smooth running forum thing and be willing to pay for just that. As for how much, In have no idea. How many lower rate forum subs would it take to make a difference to stw?
As for the people voting with their cash, I think you may be able to rough guess the number of potential sub downgrades by looking how many 1.49 subs you have vs the number of digital mag downloads. But original the idea was that STW might benefit from further income.

The Asda analogy does not really work, though.
I personally think that 1.49 is a bit cheap for a digital mag and P and have never suggested that it was outrageous. Also, Asda is exactly the same distance away from me and not a chore to visit at all.
But, I really, really like the small shop. It has roots in my local area, I know some of the staff and I occasionally enjoy the conversations of the locals who frequent it.
But, the shopkeeper has QVC shopping blaring in the background all day and keeps trying to sell me a loaf of bread and magazine bundle that has free earplugs on the front cover.
And I still want him to succeed, but I don’t want or need the loaf or magazine, so it seems best right now just to shove a few quid in the tips jar.
Just maybe turn it down a bit, like asda does. Or sell earplugs on their own.

Weirdly, the bread is free in Asda. I have no idea how they do it.

Ok, you know which scripts I meant! Genuinely though, is it the ‘programmatic advertising’ that makes this place really slow and makes my laptop sound like it’s about to take off whenever I stop by here? I think that the usability of the site is responsible for all the Russian data mining/cryptomining jokes around here.
Similarly, I thought photo hosting was going to be part of the ‘upgrade’. I may well have made this up, or it only applied to the classified section, possibly. Either way, ahh well.

There may well be options in the profile settings, but as I only log in to post, then log out again, that makes little difference.

As for the polite ‘well bugger off somewhere else if you don’t like it’ comment. Not really constructive. I really want this place to do well, maybe one day to be the absolute best cycling forum ever, as the user generated information within the forums are often quite interesting, and I certainly would miss them were they to disappear.

‘Do you imagine that’s a likely outcome?’

I really don’t know why it wouldn’t be. Income is income.
The last comment is a bit weird. Mark would rather not know? In his position I really would want to know. It is hard to run a business when you don’t know why people are giving you money.

So my 1.49 gets rid of the ALL scripts, data mining, click tracking, and all the other third party crap, adds image hosting, and makes it usable? Cool. Might consider it if I start visiting more often again.

‘Magazine” here includes the digital edition and published content, not just a dead tree through your letterbox. Do you honestly believe that there will be any appetite at all for GoFar to keep a forum running if all the lights have gone out everywhere else?’

Well, if it still makes some money, then yes.

‘Consider:
Scenario 1: people who “only” want the forum sign up. Yay!
Scenario 2: people who “only” want the forum downgrade their existing subs. Not so yay!’

Wouldn’t scenario 2 be useful information to you, as a business? It would show the real incentive for purchasing a sub in the first place. It might not be what you want to hear, or it might be all good news. Either way you would know, rather than assuming all subs want the magazine, rather than just a better functioning forum.

Also, I have no idea how many employees PB have, but they seem to do ok.
Trafficwise, they seem to be getting around 6.2M visitors over 6 months, so that is pretty similar to STW with 1.7M a month. But with far less dodgy ads!

Ok, it is gone (:

Blockquote has stopped working again, but …

1.49 too much for ya?
It is not about price, it is about what you are paying for.

Forum free dichotomy
The forum is certainly not ‘free’. An advert and script heavy version of it is free, but an actually usable version would certainly be worth paying for.

You think people would pay for that?
I have no idea what people would pay for. Maybe give it a go and see?

No magazine, no forum
I keep hearing this. Why would there be no forum if there were no mag? The mag is not going to last forever, whereas the internet forum is not facing any such issues. Seems like a choice. Lots of publications have moved away from print and adapted. Choosing ‘print or death’ seems a bit over-dramatic.
Hehe, Narnia. It might be really obvious to you why, but there are other cycle based sites that seem to be leading the way without a magazine.

Fair enough. But if the magazine is not doing so well and it’s existence subsidised by people wanting to use an internet forum without ads, then maybe what many are paying for is NOT the magazine.
The online experience could be much nicer without the data mining, click tracking rubbish that is only implemented to keep the magazine afloat, then why not separate the two and allow people to pay for what they want? Sky has had lots of packages that no longer exist due to lack of demand.
I think it boils down to stw maximising their successful components, rather than also expecting them to fund the less successful ones too.

“I only want to support the bits I use” is a bogus excuse.
Posted 10 minutes ago

Is it though? If STW does not want my money for a particular thing when I want to give it, then fair enough. Wouldn’t adding a non-magazine based sub only add to the coffers?

Yep. Digital subscription. Cheaper than chip

No, that pays for a digital sub to the magazine with forum extras thrown in.
I want a way to support the forum only. No interest in paying for a mag I don’t read, or for articles I don’t look at.
Admittedly, I occasionally used to browse fgf, but when it seemed that they employed a twelve year old from MBUK to write the article intros and I stopped.

So can we get a different forum sub, whereby proceeds entirely go towards ending the advertising crapfest?
How many subs would that take?

Is there an option to subscribe to the forum only? If there was, I reckon you would hit 10k in a couple of days, if people knew that their money would go toward improving this place rather than propping up a magazine that most of those 1.7 million have little or no interest in.

People seem to LOVE the forum, though.

Or you could just, you know, push it with your hand or something ..
Not sure why he uses that, there really is no need. But like I said, it produces an incredibly nice brew when it is to late to get the gaggia out, or if I am away from home.

Whilst the Aeropress does not make a real espresso, give this method a go and see what you think! I prefer it to my real espresso machine for complexity of flavour, tbh.
Plus, you can make them at 3am without waking anyone.

Maybe … Bit skint for a few weeks,, but give me a ballpark number and I will see what I can muster (if they have not gone yet). I do rather like them.

Make it more fun and go down to the park and play on the monkey bars for a few hours, It will come really quickly.

+1 for Contigo mugo mugs, have been throwing my westloop in my bag before the commute and never had a leak, Stays warm for a good few hours too

Very much a normal, slim fit. No on-one mushroom top, anyway!

wait for it …!

Yep, two or three people I have previously emailed about forum ads on the old classifieds fairly regularly seem to send me dodgy links. Usually a link shortener with no other text.

Weirdly, those ‘Event Horizon’ pieces has been my dual desktop wallpapers for the last year or so.

Cheers!

Outdry stuff is great! permanent beading, slightly less breathable than goretex shakedry, but way tougher .

Slightly odd cut on mine though. Will size down next time.

6ft with a long inside leg on an xl with a 70mm stem and 175’s.

The large needed a stupid amount of seatpost to make it fit, then my big feet made toe overlap an issue.

Sebo BS360. It’s a beast.

Gabriel has never recorded anything that anyone could conceivably call ‘rubbish’.

I think that you missread the thread title. ‘artists you thought were a bit rubbish’.

David Bowie. Never really liked his stuff, but the bowie bbc radio theatre (2000) album is excellent. Well, about four or five track are really intense. Props to the sound guy on that one.

The difference is the taco or chainring on the first pic is making the bb area appear larger and rounder than it actually is.

Got the Wera set in my toolbox, but my 10+ year old Kennedy set are my favourite and most used. They still look perfect. The ductile temper means they have a good degree of flex to them and a massively reduced tendency to snap like my 2.5mm Wera did. Also, they are about a fiver.

Because they cost way too much, have limited bean options and are not recyclable.

These, however, are great.

Edit: Who makes a ‘good’ instant, then? Seems to be a secret as no one is saying!

Guy Martin.

Bugger em,

millennium hand and shrimp

Give the doggy a sausage …

Don’t mind xmas too much, but anyone who uses the word ‘sleeps’ should be cast out into the void where there is wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Subsequently they asked for a day’s holiday

I think if it is a reward weekend for everyone than I probably would have offered them a day off, unless, as it seems, this is a personal thing and you want to punish them by making them sit in an empty office as they bloody well should for not being grateful.

I totally get where you are coming from, but keep it simple. Reward everyone. If one of the team feels penalised I think the whole point has been lost.

Also, ignore the reasons given for  non-attendance as you seem to be a little sceptical. Maybe they are just not telling you the real reason.

£100 will not generate esprit de corps.

I think that is the intention.

‘Nah, no expensive holiday this year because someone ruined it last year by not coming, here’s a few quid. You know where to direct your complaints’

Even if not the intent, then I would imagine that some employees would see it like that, which wouldn’t help anything.

“We won’t be doing this again next year – we’ll just bung them £100”

Sounds a much better idea, tbh. The only things your employees will never have issue with are being given time or money.

I’d take a hundred quid over losing my own weekend to attend some ‘team building’ jolly every time. As would most, I feel.

Edit: Not being dismissive of your gesture, John, But surely you can see that a weekend in Milan with colleagues in your free time is not for everyone.

Only with sleep, not the other stuff.. I’ll be about until three or four every night watching stuff, browsing, reading or tinkering quietly.

Not much point posting this late/early, though, so who knows how many others there are here at three AM.

and yet the activity on here is still way less than it was before ‘that’ upgrade…

Impossible! Not when there are 90,318 members and a genuine August ‘Unique’ Site Visitors total of 1,675,816.

This place is rocking it!

The proper 3m stuff sticks well to clean fabric, but I threw a few stitches through the corners. Still there after 18 months and the glue looks to have held brilliantly.

Also cut a few bits of tape to add highlight lines to my helmet, which I have been told is particularly effective.

Edit: Just looked and 3m do a heat transfer film, so you can pimp your coat!

Always liked the look of the Showers pass Atlas, but my regular gear and a rucksack covered in 3m reflective tape does the job for now.

My dad made up a small hive with a perspex side on so that we could watch the magic happen!

Thoroughly recommended for a better understanding of their bee-haviour.

No idea, but my dad had a few many years back. I don’t remember any winter insulation for the whole hive, but a thick sheet of polystyrene and waterproof cover on the crown board were the norm.We used to warm our hands on the hives during winter and they really kicked out some heat! If they are properly strong and  well fed they don’t seem to have any issues controlling their environment. I think that winter starvation was the real risk, rather than the cold itself.