Thompson stated it caused reliability issues, and is the majority of people rant actually that fussed by the cable entry point.

Having used one with a fixed cable point (when it actually worked) and another without, I’d agree. It would be nice, but its hardly a deal breaker…

A 2nd hand carbon-frame, it’d have to be CHEAP.

Why?

Use normal due diligence. It it looks ragged, then approach with caution. Just like if it were made from any other material.

Lever design fail, just like the KS. Why can’t they engineer it to have a cam pulling the cable sideways with adjustable angles.

29ers are better for most MTB applications – Fact .

Poor troll.

It good for a day or two if you just plan on riding there, otherwise there isn’t much. Verbier is only an hour or so away though for a lot more (and better) riding.

Both are eye wateringly expensive.

The issue is what if you get bored of say a carbon SC frame etc? No one will spank up 1k+ for a secondhand carbon frame.

There are plenty of people who spend £1k+ on a used carbon frame. I’ve sold 2 for well over that, and my current one will also sell for more.

The distributors do not pay US RRP for the bikes/frames. They just don’t.
Take the US price, deduct 40-odd% from the US RRP price. That’s what the distributors cost is. Then add the tax. The rest is all gravy.

Plus shipping, having the cash to carry high stock levels, spares, advertising, demo bikes, sponsorships, etc. Yeah, definitely a gravy train. In fact Jungle are so wealthy they heat the office with £50 notes :)

Exactly. I deal with a couple of high end shops that do regular weekly £8k+ MTB builds because their customer base is very wealthy.

Just because you can’t afford it/justify it, doesn’t mean there arn’t plenty of other people out there who can.

As others have said, the SC business model is a perception of very high end bikes, they are never going to be ‘cheap’. Other brands are available…

Might make more sense to park in the middle at Holmbury St Mary, then you can ride Leith, Holmbury & Pitch.

Ask people where to go, there is a lot of trails & it can be a headache putting a route together if you don’t know where you are going.

It’s coming next year.

The knock is just a gentle reminder you bought the poverty spec shock ;)

The Foxy XR comes with 160mm Float 34’s as standard in the builds.

Do you know what side they are clicking on?

I’ve had a few sets that have clicked under compression on the air cartridge side, I spoke to a few people about it & the general consensus was ‘yeah they do that sometimes, we can fix it, but it will probably come back’.

I can’t remember exactly what it was that was making the noise, something about an air piston glide ring from memory, but no-one seemed to think it was an issue.

I’ve got a Lev and have had i900 and i950’s before and whilst it’s a pain not having a distributor at the minute with regard to servicing, Pure racing/Superstar were so shocking everytime i had a problem with mine that i’m actually quite happy. Hopefully one of the bigger distributors will pick up KS and do a proper job of customer service and actually helping the people who bought their products rather than just blaming them when something goes wrong.

Doubt it, most wouldn’t touch it with a sh*tty stick. Which is why nothing has been announced already. Good brands and products have people lined up to fill in where someone left off, announcements come almost immediately. Not two weeks with no news…

He could weasel his way out of warranty work, if he winds up pure racing. I imagine that would go down great with the people who have sold them and have warranty issues however.

10mm is never going to cause a problem!

Like for like, you’re probably right. But a 36 is a pretty tall fork & has a much bigger A2C height than a RS Rev. There is probably a good inch’s worth of difference between the two.

I had a summer job at Portbury docks near Portishead and Bristol. The job was driving brand new hondas (this was 19 years ago) when the dockers had unloaded them from the boat and we would then go and park them return to the office and then pick cars and line them up for car transporters to take to dealers.
The dodgy bit is that all cars were treated as race cars, revved to max from cold, clutch dropped, wheel spinned and maxxed all the way from A to B. Two guys were fired when racing the guy in front thought it would be a laugh to slam on the brakes. Cue rear end smash and front of one car totalled. Both guys dismissed.
We got to drive the honda legends (brilliant in the summer; ice cold air con and decent radio). Favourites were the first generation preludes with 2.2 engines.
It was always slightly amusing to imagine the typical retired owner lovingly running the engine in for 2000 miles when the first 12 ‘delivery’ miles had been with the engine bouncing off the rev limiter.

So things don’t change! I worked for a Main dealer a fair few years ago, that was town centre based & had a compound about 3 miles out of town.

Every day people would take the new & used sold stock up there prior to prep etc. I’ve never seen such abuse of cars! Not just wheelspins & handbrake turns, there were proper handbrake on burnouts, high speed chases, clutchless gearchanges, rev limiter challenge (do the whole thing banging it off the limiter), etc etc.

It got more & more out of hand, until one day the MD/owner hit a concrete bollard on the compound entrance & rolled a customers brand new executive saloon car into 3 other customers cars awaiting prep 8O

The stories about how the cars are treated at the docks are commonplace in the trade, as are all the others about new cars falling off transporters, squashed under them, run over….

Thats why most manufacturers have their bodyshops at the docks. A fair few new cars have metalwork & paint before they even get to the dealer & they start on it!

Pretty shocking really.

I had a summer job at Portbury docks near Portishead and Bristol. The job was driving brand new hondas (this was 19 years ago) when the dockers had unloaded them from the boat and we would then go and park them return to the office and then pick cars and line them up for car transporters to take to dealers.
The dodgy bit is that all cars were treated as race cars, revved to max from cold, clutch dropped, wheel spinned and maxxed all the way from A to B. Two guys were fired when racing the guy in front thought it would be a laugh to slam on the brakes. Cue rear end smash and front of one car totalled. Both guys dismissed.
We got to drive the honda legends (brilliant in the summer; ice cold air con and decent radio). Favourites were the first generation preludes with 2.2 engines.
It was always slightly amusing to imagine the typical retired owner lovingly running the engine in for 2000 miles when the first 12 ‘delivery’ miles had been with the engine bouncing off the rev limiter.

So things don’t change! I worked for a Main dealer a fair few years ago, that was town centre based & had a compound about 3 miles out of town.

Every day people would take the new & used sold stock up there prior to prep etc. I’ve never seen such abuse of cars! Not just wheelspins & handbrake turns, there were proper handbrake on burnouts, high speed chases, clutchless gearchanges, rev limiter challenge (do the whole thing banging it off the limiter), etc etc.

It got more & more out of hand, until one day the MD/owner hit a concrete bollard on the compound entrance & rolled a customers brand new executive saloon car into 3 other customers cars awaiting prep 8O

Yes, the paint/graphics :)

One of the bikes I mentioned is the 2013 one, the graphics just look a bit of a mess comapared to the 2012 bike. My mate is annoyed as he thinks the same!!

Sorry I sent the wrong link, but if you go into the sale section they have some 2012 frames there with the geometry numbers (thought they were the same with a cursory glance over them?)

2012 AM frames look much nicer!

Numbers here: http://www.commencal-store.co.uk/PBSCProduct.asp?ItmID=10252647

I’m ‘just’ over 6ft. I have a couple of riding buddies with them, one on a M & the other an L.

The M felt really small. I couldn’t ride it. I have no idea how your mate at 6’4″ rode one, he must have looked like an ape on a BMX.

The large felt good for me size wise.

Looking on the Commencal site, the 2012 & 2013 bikes are identical numbers.

Same problematic hubs as the Havens. Avoid, unless you want to get intimate with CRC when you are forever sending them back under warranty.

Rocket, Stumpjumper Evo, Meta AM, Mega etc.

Anyone else had that issue ?

Yes, the third set(that’s right, the third set!) had this problem.

At that point I got a refund.

Thanks for the comments everyone so far.

100mphplus, out of interest can you pop a spec list up so I can see what sort of build it is to make it 30/31lbs please :)

The cracking issue I am happy with it no longer being a problem, the frame weight is a bit hefty for a 150mm travel bike though, especially coming from something with a bit more travel, carbon & a fair bit lighter (Spicy).

However, budgets prevail this year so I need something a bit cheaper. You sound like a similar user to myself, it’s going to be used for the GE’s, out to the Mega, and probably my local regional DH races, however I will use it for XC as well, really it’s going to be used & abused for everything, so the lighter the better really.

The item was as described in my first post, with freshly serviced forks and shock (with receipts). What I would consider to be normal used condition. It’s not had a hard life at all, as I look after my bikes, but equally it’s not been ridden once a month along a canal towpath.

I don’t think i’m being unreasonable, otherwise what is the point of a deposit…

on ebay – completed items mostly £150+

Not really – that search is picking up RC4’s as well. In fact going through the listing, there isn’t one DHX5 that goes for more that £150. In fact, there is only one that makes that much!

Take all the DHX5’s that have sold on there, the average selling price is £109.

That’s about the going rate.

Confused, your link shows an RC4, you ad is for a DHX5? I presume the latter?

Sadly, not what you want to hear, SV is on the money.

DHX5’s were never particulary well liked. I have sen a few sell on Ebay & Pinkbike recently, as I was toying with one for my Alpine. I saw a couple of new ones not even make £140.

216×63 is an awkward size too. You lose the main market thats interested in coil shocks, the DH brigade because it’s too small.

Ebay it, you might get £150. If you do, take the money & run. I’ve seen CCDB’s sell for less than you want for yours in your ad.

Did I miss you explaining wtf lightweight AM means, is it an invention of MBR ? Going up/down/flat bits is called ‘riding your bike’.

If you can make do with a light and strong wheelset rather than a niche bullshit words set, then spunk up some cash or have heavier or weaker.

Ooh, did I manage to find your pressure point?

Ok, put it in simple terms, just for you. I want a wheelset thats not for XC racing, and one that’s not DH heavy, without requiring a second mortgage to purchase, one I can buy spares for without drawing blank faces from various bike shops, only to then wait 3 weeks for something to arrive.

B R – the Hope/Crest combo is currently winning – my only slight concern was it being a bit too weak. But, to be fair everything is off the shelf bits should I roast a rim, and the money saved means I can afford to do thaty every so often.

Not interested in Mavic built wheels – seen and heard way to many horror stories.

I’m fine with Hope hubs, Mavic, Stans, etc. Just don’t want a factory built wheelset any more. I, and various people I ride with have had way too many issues, and then spares can be a real headache on top.

Looked at the DT240’s, but a 20g weight saving on a front 20mm Pro 2 seems pointless for a hub that costs 3 times the price, when tyres vary more than that. About 10g difference on a rear too.

Budget, well, up to and around £400 really. I find it strange that there is a large hole between XC race wheelsets around 1500g & DH wheelsets around 1900/2000g that doesn’t cost the earth, and is factory built.

No idea how people manage that tbh, unless it’s down to running very low pressures or unsuitable tyres…

Ride and race a lot of DH, so maybe I push it a bit harder? I tend to ride XC like DH, with a few flat bits and up’s in the way. It was a lot better with the 2Bliss Specialized tyres though.

Firestarter – EX1750 I did consider, but factory wheelset, price & no tubeless.

[Quote]No they don’t The yellow tape weighs on the skinny side of bugger all and the valves weigh only a few grams. You don’t need to use Stans rim strips with Flows.[/quote]

Matter of opinion of course, but I, like others found the yellow strips useless on Flows, they burp in hard corners. The only ones that worked properly took the wheelset were the heavier ones, taking the wheelset over 2kg. That’s not exactly light, even on a DH bike these days.

Mavic Factory wheelsets are a no go, heard far too many horror stories about reliability issues, spares issues and being bent over for parts when you need them.

I don’t believe an XM819 can be built into a 1700g wheelset, the rims weigh more than Flows!

Looked at the Arch, but no Hope Hoops available, and they seem a bit strange, a lot narrower than a Crest?

Thanks for the replies guys.

Enmac – I did try & compare to the Carbon ASR5, but that has what I would call more ‘traditional’ sizing.

The small has a reasonably short TT (same as her Blur 4X) and she would benefit from the extra 1″ (blimey) of the medium & run it with a shorter stem.

It’s more the seat tube height thats throwing a spanner in the works on the decision process. The small is 18.5″ & the medium is 18.8″. My concern is really the Reverb extension more than anything.

I’ll have to try & find a dealer & take the Reverb along to see how the fit works.

Otherwise it’s back to the drawing board. There is a distinct lack of 5″ low, slack trail bikes out there annoyingly.

Awesome, cheers guys.

Does anyone happen to know if the pads are the same size now?

Possibly – although at that weight they are within ~20g of mine with the Stan’s strips though, if they weighed them with those included.

The Singletrack score isn’t just wrong, it doesn’t make any sense in the review (it would put them into the heavyweight class). I’ve a feeling they weighed their 721s twice instead as it’s only a gram less, and the Flows rims certainly aren’t half a gram less than a 721.

Unlikely – the Pro 2/721 wheelset is over 2050g. I know this having run them for years on my DH bike & probably had 5 or 6 sets.

The people quoting the weight of there Hope’s with Flows did you actually weigh yours? As mine are around the 2050g mark, and when STW weighted there test wheelset in the mag that’s what they came out out as well, and that’s with yellow tape.

This was my point – mine were just over 1900g (1927g iirc) and that was absolutely bare, with no rim tape at all.

The yellow tape & all its associated bits made it about 50-60g a wheel on top (so worst case 2047g) but I found the yellow tape to be useless, the rim strips were just under 100g each (95g I think) so 2117g.

I’ve since been nosing around the Easton Havoc AM wheels, as it looks like it’s abit more durable – i’ve seen a few scale shots of them pretty damn close to the 1750g claimed, with valve.

I always had a lot more luck with proper UST rims (with both UST & non UST tyres), so i’m tempted by them. With my current Flow wheelset with tubes coming in at 2300g, even with sealant, thats a healthy 500+ saving.

Various – mostly Maxxis, some Schwalbe.

Ride & race a lot of DH (to a fairly decent standard without blowing my own trumpet too much) so tend to ride the 5 a bit like my DH bike, maybe i’m just a cornering machine! :D

Other than the weight, I quite like the Flow’s, but I seem to be struggling for choice on something that will save weight, allow me to run proper tubeless and mount a decent tyre width on.

A lot of points to consider here.

Ok – the Pro 2/Flow wheelset (in my case) was ‘just’ over 1900g bare (Hope Hoops). I’ve had to resort to running tubes in them due to burping issues – the yellow tape is fairly crap, the Stans strip is better, but thats an extra ~150g on top of the wheelset. Hence the total weight of ~2050g.

Having done some investigating, the Havens seem to be more of a real world 1700g, but the new 2011 Havoc’s are a true 1750g, plus reportedly a lot stiffer and stronger.

Anyone running these by comparison?

I guess what I really want is my cake, and to eat the whole lot. Have ridden a bike with some Rovals (Enduro) and they were flexy as hell, so souldn’t be keen on that option really.

Geetee – I had considered the Crossmax’s, but the spares issue is, well, an issue.

Crests – issues with wider tyres. This bike gets used for everything other than my DH bike, and when the mood takes, sometimes that too plus will be used for the Mega again next year so I really need to be able to fit a 2.5/2.35 combo on it.

Sounds fairly simple then, i’ve already checked the ‘trueness’ and it’s fine, my main concern is messing that up by not really understanding what i’m doing.

By what you have said it would seem if I slowly bring the offending spokes back up to tension I shouldn’t do anything silly.

Maybe i’m being tight but it seems silly to drop it into the bike shop for something like this if I can sort it myself in front of the telly one evening.

I’ll get started tomorrow night!