As there are no Starmer supporters on this thread

But where have they all gone???

Question – the Labour voters and people who identify as left wing who can’t vote Labour because of Starmer, who are you voting for and what do you think will be achieved from your vote?

How about the Armresters on here start answering some of the many questions put to them, first? So far, that hasn’t happened.

I’m less bothered by what he is or isn’t, ideology-wise, what I’d like to see is a basic level of competence.

So if you’re not actually bothered by actual ideology, then Boris seems to be pretty competent at holding office and being unencumbered by any form of effective opposition right now, and looks set to continue tory rule for some time to come. If ‘winning’ is all you care about, why not just vote tory? That way, you can be on the ‘winning’ team’, and get to gloat about those losers in other teams…

They’re all as bad as each other

“There are good people on both sides”

So is this finally an admission that Starmer is useless then? Go on; you can say it…

It shows that the labour leadership is utterly detached from reality

Are you going to stop blaming Corbyn, ‘Lefties’, ‘tin-foil-helmeted nutters’, etc now then? Or is it all still Karl Marx’s fault?

So… back around again… assuming Starmer doesn’t take Labour into the next election (I hope he doesn’t)… who should?

Richard Burgon. :D

I truly despair of the Labour party. The lot of them. It simply isn’t fit to call an opposition. Boris must be laughing his tits off watching this developing car crash.

There there. Your clean-shaven messiah is turning out to be an utter failure, isn’t he? Do you feel somewhat embarrassed by backing the wrong horse now? Is the reality of the fact that Armrest really is just a right-wing establishment stooge, starting to finally sink in now?

Bless.

Rapidly coming to the conclusion that you’re a right winger playing a part here. Your every post reads like a right winger’s jokey idea of what a petulant left winger could be like, rather then expressing the attitude and language of any genuine left winger I know.

Lol! So many comedians on here! :D

If you have that perspective then you aren’t going to make things change

Whereas if you have the perspective that things will change under armrest, then you’re seriously deluded.

Voting for labour isn’t virtue signalling, the left not voting labour is virtue signalling

No; voting where your conscience takes you is called Freedom of Democracy. Ask your mate Keir what that actually means; he doesn’t seem to have much of an idea….

How influence do they get for that money when the Union funding dwarfs it?

Unions represent the interests of actual workers, not private wealth. Union representation comes through democratic processes; again, ask your mate Keir what Democracy means. So union funding SHOULD be far greater than private donations. Armrest seems more interested in courting private wealth than bothering with unions though.

As the current policy of renationalisation

Corbyn’s policy, you mean? That Armrest seems loathe to actually fully commit to…

Do you read this thread?

Yes. That’s why I remember that you Armresters continually fail to actually answer any questions put to you, and instead just drone on about how it’s all Corbyn/the Left’s fault or some other such crap. And it’s why I don’t need something explained repeatedly, unlike yourself, as I had to do that earlier.

The bigger issue is that if he goes Richard Burgon might have a shot at the leadership…..

I’d vote for that, if only to see the bedwetters on here lose their shit. :D

Lol!

I can’t see where the money goes to be honest.

No I’m kind of with you on that. Mass produced parts, albeit very high quality. Much of the price is for the ‘prestige’ of owning a ‘real’ version rather than an ‘inferior’ copy. It makes those who have money yet are insecure, feel they are a bit above the common herd because they have the ‘real deal’. Same with many things really. For £8k I’m sure someone like Kayak here could knock you up something completely bespoke and unique, actually probably for a lot less than £8k. It is an awful lot of money for a mass produced chair, no matter how nice it is.

Have you read it? Their illuminati status is somewhat undermined by the fact that none of them are still in post. Sure there are new chairs of british gas, tesco etc, but I doubt they’re spending a lot of time on labour party internal politics and policy.

Once again, point missed spectacularly by those who refuse to acknowledge the reality of how our society is actually run. Which is that large corporate and economic interests wield far more power than the electorate, and dictate how they want things run, in their own interests. ‘Democracy’ is little more than a sideshow. Which is why people like Starmer will be concentrating far more on how yo court such corporate entities, rather than actually worrying about what party members, or the electorate, actually want. If the head of Tescos say’s ‘jump’, politicians generally ask ‘how high’. That’s how it works. That some on here seem unwilling to understand or accept this, is really quite disturbing.

In fact there’s nothing very shadowy at all about the exercise of power with our current government, it’s absolutely blatant. You need to stop saying how bad labour are and focus on the actual problem.

I’ve asked repeatedly, how things would be different to the current status quo, under Starmer, but as yet, none of you Armresters have actually given an answer. Why is that? Is it really because you know nothing much will actually change? And perhaps you don’t really want it to change; I suspect that’s a big part of it. You’re small c conservatives, who are actually fairly happy with the status quo, as your lives aren’t adversely affected too much. And that pretending to want ‘change’ from tory rule is nothing more than virtue signalling. I think that’s actually closer to the truth than you can even admit to yourselves.

One of Labour’s biggest donors is a hedge fund manager (which they tried to keep secret):

Why bother? Even with a mountain of evidence, the Armresters still think their clean-shaven messiah can do no wrong. In fact, one could even say that their devotion is almost cult-like….

I imagine

So you don’t actually know then? Thanks for clarifying.

Wow the Trend T11 looks good, well out of my budget ! Not that the Triton is much in budget either.

Personally, I think that ‘saving’ money here is perhaps not the best policy; as others have mentioned, cheaper tools tend to be less accurate and consistent. A router is exactly the kind of tool you need to be really accurate and consistent. That Trend T7 is really the baseline for a reasonable, useable router in my opinion.

Lets have some names…

I’ve literally linked to an actual article with actual names in it!!! :D Lol!

Its all just more speculative, paranoid, tinfoil-helmeted nonsense

But that’s what you say about anything you disagree with. Without actually proving why it’s ‘paranoid tinfoil-helmeted nonsense’. Even when it’s actual fact. Because it’s easier to abuse and demonise anyone with whom you disagree, than actually enter into any sort of meaningful debate.

Isn’t it?

I’m asking what on earth any of this has got to do with Keir Starmer and the present Labour leadership?

Who do you think Armrest thinks is more important; Labour members, the electorate, or corporate power?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sir-keir-starmer-seeks-cash-as-labour-party-struggles-to-pay-staff-rm2h5wxs5

Oh this is a bit embarrassing:

https://www.businessinsider.com/keir-starmer-linked-labour-group-fined-14k-failure-declare-donations-2021-9?r=US&IR=T

Oops.

Ok. You can lead a horse to water…

Do you Armresters/Blairites really not know that our society is run by people with lots of economic power? Who do you think really controls society then?

Clue: it’s not the electorate.

Still waiting for names, if they are telling people to do things they have a name.

Lol! You’re funny.

:D

I went through an armchair stage.

Settled on this from the Komfort range.

I like that. Simple, elegant, understated. Yet top quality. Love the armrests, the way they’re jointed into the rest of the structure. Very organic looking.

Does that mean the swivel egg armchairs in green velour my grandparents had in the 70s will be back in style

The Chinese have been very good at hacking and we know about some of the activities. We know nothing about the activities in the opposite direction.

What do you think people in China are told by their government, media etc?

Who? Name them, real names, go on, if you know they exist you must know who they are.

Ok then (although I’ve already done this more than once on this thread…):

https://www.newstatesman.com/uncategorized/2013/02/shadow-power-list

Old article, but it gives you a pretty good idea of what the real power structures that govern our society are.

Bit of Socialist Worker for you as well if you want:

https://socialistworker.co.uk/art/44695/Who+really+rules+Britain

And even some Owen Jones if you can be bothered:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/aug/26/the-establishment-uncovered-how-power-works-in-britain-elites-stranglehold

But that’s not what you wanted me to say, is it? Never mind. At least you’ll have learned something today though. :D

Who do you think will be controling Starmer?

Oh, that’ll be the Puppet Masters™ of course! :D

Yeah, who needs experts, right? I mean almost no one is literally spending hours in universities studying the world’s military, for all intents and purposes the PLA may well not exist.

All they know is whatever is ‘visible’. And China keeps a lot of its military interests invisible. So none of us know the true extent of China’s military power. Add to that Western Propaganda which will always play down the ‘opposition’s’ real capabilities, and we have at best a distorted picture of what’s actually there.

AFAIK no military power has ever defeated an insurgent army. The US are not alone in this. The PLA got it’s arse handed to it in 1979 by the same Vietnamese army that whopped the US

So you’re comparing the PLA of 42 years ago, with today? Ok. Because that will give a properly accurate picture, won’t it? :D

Is that the “America First” America which is withdrawing from it’s world policing?

No; it’s the ‘America first’ US that gets it’s arse kicked then withdraws, leaving an almighty mess where millions of innocent people suffer.

On the contrary, The PLA are one the most written about militaries in the world.

Written about by whom? Western ‘observers’ who know little more than you or I? Fact is; China knows more about our military systems than we do about theirs; they make the electronics for a lot of it! :D But military ‘strength’ is increasingly meaningless in this world today; the USA keep proving that by getting their arses kicked by forces with far ‘inferior’ resources. China has far more economic power now; their investments in regions such as South America and Africa, over the last few decades, have given them a much stronger foothold globally, than the USA now has. And don’t forget Russia; they’ll happily ally with China, if it means getting one over the US. The USA is like an old drunk in a pub; still thinks he’s ‘got it’, when everyone else knows he’s just a belligerent old drunk who gets his arse kicked all the time.

You are the 50 cent brigade, surface water assets are visible from space, subs as well to an extent. Or do the Chinese have a vast fleet of James Bond villian Q ships?

Like I said; you’ve no idea. Pretending you do, doesn’t make you actually knowledgable.

I really don’t see

Quite.

Some of us want labour in power so that they can change the political and economic system to work in the interests of working people rather than a tiny few rich people, whereas others (I think we know who) just want labour in power so that they can feel warm and rosy about ‘their’ side winning like after a football match.

If labour are not going to change anything, then there’s really no point them being in power. It’s that simple.

Is about the long and short of it, really.

Doubled health spending when last in govt.

Only by introducing privatised services, which unsurprisingly cost at least double what the NHS services did. And lined the pockets of Tony’s mates…

Apparently you can’t tell the difference between labour and Tory, or think a starmer government would be so similar to a Johnson one (a Johnson govt ffs!) that you don’t think it would be worth voting for? You are,let’s say, misguided at best.

So; please tell us how a Starmer led government would be radically different to this Johnson led one? Do you really think it’ll be Armrest actually in control?

What do you do in one of them loungers anyway?

Lounge!

I see the usual gang are still here trying to keep the dream of a socialist utopia alive

What does this mean? Can you explain what you think it means? It would be helpful if we understood what we’re meant to think. :D

There’s a few on this thread, who simply don’t want to see Labour in power and so are useful idiots for the Tories. (I mean not that useful obviously given it’s a politics thread on stw.)

Well, some of us keep trying to tell the Armresters that becoming the Tory Party Mk2 isn’t a very good idea, as it’ll lose you both the votes of the ‘Lefties’, and those who’d vote for the ‘real’ tory party anyway, but they don’t seem to want to actually listen to anything other than their own rhetoric…

I doubt it even registers in the top 10 concerns of anyone in States. The EU is unlikely to federate in the current political generation or into the foreseeable future

The US is rapidly diminishing as a ‘superpower’, yet still sees itself as World Police. Most of the rest of the World has had enough; the US has caused more death and destruction in the period following WW2 than any other nation. France and Germany know that their continued progress is reliant on stronger trade links between European states, and other emerging powers. Recent events in the US, plus the view many nations will have that the US got its arse kicked in Afghanistan, further diminishes its ‘power’ in the eyes of many; yet China continues to supply everyone with stuff. Hence France’s interest in its own former colonies. France will not be controlled by the US the way the UK is, so France will be very much in the ‘top 10 concerns’ of those who wield power in the US.

Not yet, their Navy has a long way to go before dominance

So Western propaganda will have you believe. You have no idea what power the Chinese really possess, militarily. But the US government might have an inkling, hence their desire to control the Pacific from Australia. And as for actual hardware; the US might have all the fancy kit, but as so many conflicts have shown, particularly Vietnam and Afghanistan; all the gear, no idea. Still get their arses kicked by far less well resourced forces.

They will change the calculations of the Chinese military planners, which is exactly what is needed

They’ll have predicted this move ages ago. And already planned their strategy. This won’t change much for China.

Silly me, I thought a large chunk of the issue was the French ambitions to be a Indo-Pacific power, don’t think they are English speaking?

Do you just argue with everyone, even if they’re not actually arguing with you?

It’s clear the US needs to forge strong alliances with nations it considers ‘friendly’ in terms of overall political out look; France has traditionally been seen as a bit too ‘socialist’ for the US, hence the Francophobic crap that comes out of the likes of Trump etc. Yes, France has it’s own imperial ambitions, and like the UK, a blinkered and distorted view of it’s own ‘greatness’, but it’s been wary of being involved too heavily in recent Western belligerence, unlike the UK which dutifully does whatever Washington tells it to. The US sees France at the forefront of a potential federal Europe, and hates the idea that it’s own dominance could be threatened at all. But the fact is that China really rule the waves now. A few US nukes down in Australia won’t change things at all. We all rely on China for much of our stuff, so anything else is just posturing and sabre rattling.

the festool routers are expensive but only really a little bit pricier than the major brands – they are light years better though.. Safer, cleaner, quicker, easier and more comfortable to use. If you are paid for you time then the time they save you makes them more than worthwhile. I really would have thought they’d have encouraged the other brands to up their game too but that’s not really happened.

Festool are significantly more expensive than most other brands, and are excellent ( I have the Festool 55mm plunge saw). But the routers are either relatively low powered, and an awkward style for some (right hand handle sticks out, so problematic if trying to install in a table), or really bloody expensive for the OF2200. Not the easiest to install in a table, although they really do excel in Festool’s own track/guide systems. Most router-using professionals I know use other brands. I personally use a Bosch GMF 1600, which comes with both plunge and fixed bases; the fixed base lives in my router table, and it is quick and easy to swap over to the plunge base for ‘freehand’ work. Tried a couple of Trends, but they never quite live up to expectations for me. Always a little niggle with Trend stuff.

I’d echo above comments regarding quality. I want something I can trust, that doesn’t suddenly shatter sending a 20,000+ rpm bit spinning towards my face or other appendages. Cheap routers scare the life out of me. As for cordless routers, I can’t imagine using one for any prolonged length of time, without the battery dying. Perhaps good for lighter work like edge rounding etc. Corded every time for me though.

Oh, well in that case I don’t like them anymore. What does that even mean?

There was a craze for them about 10-15 years ago, as there was for anything ‘Mid Century’. So loads of stuff that had previously been discarded and forgotten about, suddenly became very desirable again. Hence the massive price hikes of really quite ordinary G-Plan and Ercol stuff, and items like the Eames lounger. And then the subsequent boom in the repro furniture market. It’s nice stuff, but some things became a bit ‘common’, and were bought up by people with little imagination, simply because of the mythical kudos of owning such things. Only buy something if you really like it, is my philosophy. Buying an Eames lounger because they are fashionable, is not a great policy, especially if you then find out (as some have here) it’s not all that comfortable.

Personally, although I love the CP lounger for comfort, I’m not a fan of the black leather and chrome look, and would actually prefer a copy in wood, like this:

Buy what suits your tastes, not someone else’s.

This really is the death throes of empire, isn’t it? The English speaking West still wanting to assert dominance over the rest of the world; this is more to do with the US controlling Australian military power, than it is to do with France or the UK. Meanwhile, the US, UK and Australia are collapsing from within. But demonising ‘others’ is far easier than sorting out your own problems…

The Eames chair and Ottoman are so over, by about 10 years or more. They became boringly popular, like Ercol and G-Plan furniture. If you want comfortable, then you can’t beat a Charlotte Perriand/Corbusier style lounger:

You need a bit of space though.

JVL said the scale of disciplinary action from Labour meant over four times more Jewish than non-Jewish Labour Party members have faced actioned complaints of anti-semitism.

Well, there’s at least one example of Starmer rowing back on a promise; in this instance to ‘tackle anti-Semitism’. He’s gone and done the opposite; expelled Jewish people from the party instead. Way to go, Keir.

By the way I didn’t read Binners comment as dismissing the opinions of Jewish people

I did. And I reported it as such. Look how we can have very different opinions about something? Isn’t that wonderful? Sir Keir doesn’t agree with me though, sadly. :(

Bridges, you are one of the people on this thread who come across very badly, over reacting, jumping on things that were not intended, insulting etc

Wow. Lack of self-awareness, much?

Kerley; you’ve already apologised to me for your mistakes, so, perhaps maybe go and think about that a bit? Thanks.

That went as well as I expected

So; you expected me to ask you to prove your offensive and completely false claims? That you’re totally unable to substantiate? Blimey. Kind of strange that you’d post something knowing you’d end up looking a bit stupid. But hey.

This thread is about Kier Starmer, and how he is failing to unite the party and be able to form any sort of viable opposition to the tories. Let’s try to stay on topic.

Apart from your good self…Your tactic appears to be 1. Use an Ad-hom attack, than when you get a reply in a similar way, complain about Ad-hom attacks, or 2, use subtle anti Semitic remarks and then protest loudly and vociferously when many folks call you out for doing so, using it to repeatedly exclaim your innocence and accusing others of Ad-hom attacks and being anti-Semitic (again) It’s tedious and derails the thread.

Please do point out where I’ve actually been ‘anti-Semitic’. Oh now wait; you can’t, because that’s never happened, and you don’t actually know what Anti-Semitism really is, besides knowing nothing about me, or my cultural background, life, experiences etc. Look; I know you want to have something to attack me for, but making shit up only makes you look like a ****. and I’m sure you don’t want to look like a ****. And anyway; this was directed towards Binners, I’m sure he’s more than capable of looking after himself, and doesn’t need anyone speaking for him. Thanks.

This thread is about Kier Starmer, and how he is failing to unite the party and be able to form any sort of viable opposition to the tories. Let’s try to stay on topic.

I’ve been experiencing this since yesterday; Mac OS 11.6, Safari 14.1.2, and also on Chrome 93.0.4577.82. No significant/noticeable issues on any other websites.

Oh great! Another opinion piece of idle speculation from another bunch of sub-Canary level lefties on their Twitter echo chamber, except this time they’re Jewish?

More tinfoil-helmet nonsense

So; I reported this post last night, then decided to sleep on it. Because I found it extremely offensive. Because I felt that Binners was dismissing the opinions of Jewish people, who have as much right to have their voices heard as anyone, and hurling abuse at those whom he sees as having different opinions to his own. But why it’s particularly offensive, is that many of the members of Jewish Voice for Labour are in fact very intelligent, well educated and knowledgable people, not the ‘tinfoil helmet’ brigade Binners likes to portray them as. Such people have been long term, even lifelong members of the Labour Party, and have fought and campaigned tirelessly against racism and injustice in our society, and for greater equality, improved Human rights, etc etc. They, as much as anyone, want to see the end to tory rule.

I find the level of abuse directed towards such groups, and ‘lefties’ in general, by Binners, to be utterly abhorrent; such people have done more to further the cause against division and inequality in our society, than pretty much anyone in the current PLP. The kind of grassroots campaigners and activists we need in order to create any semblance of opposition to tory rule. People who have as much right to be in the Labour Party as anyone else. The current drive by Starmer to eject such people, simply for not accepting his right-wing neoliberal view, is very worrying, and in the case of JVL members, moves towards actual, real anti-Semitism. The ‘wrong type’ of Jews. By insulting and abusing such people, Binners is aiding and abetting such dictatorial moves, which should be of concern to anyone who is truly committed to democracy and equality.

So Binners; I will politely, and as respectfully as I can, ask you to stop with all the slurs and abuse of ‘lefties’. There’s no need for it. Nobody else on here has been as vitriolic and hateful as you, towards people who you should be seeing as your allies, even though you might not agree with them. Or just leave the thread altogether.

I don’t know how many times I’ve had to say that I’ve never had a problem with most of Grandad’s policies, apart from the really daft ones

My problem with him was that he was absolutely clueless, without an ounce of political nous, who had spent 3 decades as a completely anonymous backbencher for very good reason. He was punching above his weight even then. And on becoming leader he surrounded himself with muppets on a similar level like Richard Burgon

He had a unique ability to repel voters and was just all the Tory’s birthdays and Christmases come at once

And on a personal level: pious, sanctimonious, po-faced, utterly joyless and self-righteous, qualities he shared with a lot of those who weirdly worship him like some Waco style cult leader. I’ve not much time for virtue-signallers

So; if you don’t have a problem with Corbyn’s actual policies, then just drop the abuse. All it does is detract form what should be the real goal; to bring the party back together again under a common purpose. All that is achieved with such partisan behaviour, is further division, which really does make things much easier for the tories. As has been explained time and again; it’s really not the ‘lefties’ that have created the toxic divisions we’re now seeing in the party.

This thread is about Kier Starmer, and how he is failing to unite the party and be able to form any sort of viable opposition tot he tories. Let’s try to stay on topic.

Oh great! Another opinion piece of idle speculation from another bunch of sub-Canary level lefties on their Twitter echo chamber, except this time they’re Jewish?

Wow. Reported.

virtue signalers

Hi Donnie.

I don’t think it’s boredom that is the cause of binners inane rantings on the Starmer thread, it’s the desperate need to steer the thread away from Starmer.

Generally it’s some nonsensical drivel about Corbyn which he uses as a diversionary tactic, eg “Corbyn is more pro-Brexit than Nigel Farage”, he knows nonsense like that will get a reaction precisely because it’s nonsense, and it results in everyone not talking about Starmer but about Corbyn.

Of course he could continue his hate campaign against Corbyn on the thread dedicated to Corbyn but that would be like shouting at people driving past in their cars, and perhaps he already does that.

Lol! I imagine Binners like this: