The idea of the orignial policy is to try and better match undergraduates with roles in society (arts, STEM and vocational)

No it’s not. It’s to undermine arts and social sciences in order to prevent plebs from becoming educated in fields that might enable them to think more laterally. Make those ‘soft’ fields the exclusive preserve of the elites, in order to facilitate their control of society and perpetuate the class system.

So asking wether it was the best use of tax payers money is a valid question.

Educating people is always a good use of taxpayers money. Next question.

The notion that arts and social science degrees are ‘soft’ is deep-fried bullshit if you ask me.

I agree.

Funding degrees with no fiscal payback is less obvious. You can argue it’s great to have lots of baristas in costa with degrees in poetry, contempory media studies etc, but that money could also have paid for knee/hip ops or housing for the homeless etc.

And this is just one example of this kind of ‘deep fried bullshit’. And very ignorant, as well as dismissive of fields of study which are arguably just as important in society as the more ‘vocational’ areas. Yes, we need engineers, scientists etc, but we also need thinkers and dreamers. The UK’s creative industries are worth shitloads; music, arts, literature, film, television etc. Any idea of how much tax income is generated through such fields and industries? There are huge numbers of Physics and Engineering graduates out there, working low paid jobs, so it’s a myth that ‘soft degrees’ aren’t as good ‘value’. And placing monetary value on education is missing the point of education completely; of course we should nourish and educate those with natural abilities in engineering and science, but should we neglect those with more abstract and creative talents? We’d just end up with loads of shit engineers and scientists, who don’t really want to be doing those jobs.

A lot of social science degrees are, on their own, almost useless

Please elaborate. I’d love to know what you define as ‘useless’.

I’ve yet to actually finish an a/f beer. Tried many; they generally just get left or poured down the sink. Utterly pointless. Ditto vegan fake meat products, etc. Just a complete waste of time and effort.

the cloying sweetness it taste like I imagine licking a personal yeast infection would

Lol!

At least I won something

You didn’t Danny; you didn’t.

Also got a mail shot from Rutlands that their 1/4” router is £50, down by £40. No idea if it’s good vfm or not.

1/4″ is fine for lighter work, such as small radiused edges, grooves, etc, but you can’t get the larger bits that do the edge profiling, or say tongue and groove bits etc, in 1/4″, generally. 1/4″ machines tend to be lower powered, and as such lack the grunt for heavy duty routing work, and with the more dense hardwoods. Maybe better for some hand held jobs though. I started out with a small Trend 1/4″ router, and it quickly became inadequate for what I wanted to do. If you want something to mount in a table, then go 1/2″.

As classy as

“Gutless”

“Bedwetters”

Etc?

Bless… :D

Amusing how nothing gets the Old Labour diehards going like a few suggestions about how to be elected – ones that could actually do that rather than fantasies about a revolution.

Assuming you’re going to achieve this without all the ‘Lefties’, please; do explain how?

No.

Crafty edit… ;)

Ah, yes, because I don’t want a Conservative government I supported the war in Iraq. Of course.

But you just said you’d be happy with a’soft tory’ government? You do know that ‘tory’ is shorthand for Conservative, don’t you? So you would be happy with a conservative government?

For what it is worth, calling someone a nutter is not the same as saying someone has mental health issues.

Well, it literally is, but then you’re not one for really understanding such things, evidently.

I want rid of the ***** currently “running” the country, and would happily take a “soft labour” government over this lot.

So you’d happily see the demonisation of an entire culture, an illegal war killing hundreds of thousands and traumatising millions of others, the piecemeal privatisation of public services via dodgy ‘PFI’ schemes, and the far right strengthen, then?

What you have now, is as a direct result of what happened then. Why do you think moving further in the same direction, will change anything?

I’d invite you to dismount from your horse, using these handy steps…One of the reasons I left campaigning and being an active Labour member was when my then partner and I were spat at by a Militant support for not taking his newspaper, He called us both “**** Tory Scum”

Sorry; what does that have to do with me? Or this thread, at all?

Well given most of the nuclear industry seems to be run that way these days you tell me.

I did. Here:

Fair, but that’s much more easily monitored and heavily government controlled/regulated than a ship could be.

Had you actually read all the information in front of you, you’d have seen that. I do hope you pay more attention to your technical manuals… ;)

Keeping the nutters happy

Once again, right-wingers ascribing mental illness to those with whom they disagree. And doing it again, and again, and again, and again. Because it’s classy, to use the notion of mental illness to abuse someone…

Mandelson is a PR creep, a thoroughly egotistical and cynical man. Personally I can’t stand him.

But he played an integral part in getting a labour government elected after 18 years of Tory rule.

And helped deliver another 13 years of soft tory rule, followed by 11 more years (and counting) of hard tory rule. Not to mention an illegal war in which hundreds of thousands of innocent people died, and millions more were left suffering trauma. And the demonisation of an entire culture, which gave succour to the far right, and has helped enable the likes of Farage to gain populist support.

What do you want?

A Labour party that truly represents the needs of all people in society, starting from the most vulnerable. A Labour party that is committed to fighting racism, not pandering to it. A Labour party that is committed to protecting the NHS, not selling it off piecemeal to private interests, in dodgy ‘PFI’ schemes. A Labour party that doesn’t see genocide as a convenient means of boosting trade. And Labour party that actually gives a shit about people. The current Labour party are none of those things.

The Ever Given situation could have been more exciting

Not possible. That was the peak of excitement in terms of how much excitement Humanity can take, individually or even collectively.

On that topic, by the way, get a Magic Touchpad.

This.

Channel your inner petrolhead to make a statement extractor fan

That’s just stupid though.

Put a stuffed cat in it.

And that’s just disturbing.

Put a recycling bin underneath for veg peelings and food scraps that can be scraped straight off the worktop and into the bin

Genius.

Put a trough underneath and grow herbs in it.

Also genius.

Vertical beer fridge

And again, genius.

Removal of Induction hob redundancy (who, coincidentally, are in session with Mark Riley on R6Music this evening I believe)

So much genius in just one thread. :D

Having battered an Apple wireless keyboard for several years, and seen other brands versions fall apart in much less time, I wouldn’t even bother looking past the Apple one.

Oh as we’re here, any recommendations for laptop stands, only need to raise by 100 mm or so and would like to fit the new keyboard underneath the raised laptop (have a shallow desk)

Make something out of a bit of scrap wood/plywood? Or how about something like this?

https://frissonlife.com/product/adjustable-ergonomic-aluminum-laptop-stand_275954368252608512?sku_id=275954368260997121&utm_source=Google_Shopping&utm_medium=CPC&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpKiI7LeV8wIVHOrtCh1lQwctEAQYAiABEgJf-_D_BwE

What about solar powered aeroplanes?

“I like things neat and tidy – it’s my OCD”. No it isn’t OCD you twunt you just like tidyness.

Yeah, I’m with you on this. OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) is used to describe a range of complex and sometimes quite debilitating, even disabling, conditions that should be respected and better understood. Saying stuff like ‘oh I’m a bit OCD when it comes to tidiness’ is really quite disrespectful and ignorant. There needs to be much better awareness of this, so thanks for speaking out.

Those beige comfort waistband trousers you get in the back of Sunday lifestyle magazines. If they were chairs, they’d be that 😅😉

Lol! I was trying to think how I’d best sum those up; you’ve done it perfectly. I mean; nothing wrong with beige comfort waistband trousers, if that’s your thing…

Wes Streeting? Wow. Just hand the tories the next 3 or 4 general elections then.

Not being privy to the cases I can’t say.

So just more made up imagined shite then? Right.

As you were.

When words and phrases of out and out antisemitic people are used it but are excused by context the lines for me get very blurry.

That doesn’t even make sense.

Feeling free to say things that if said by non-jews would be clearly seen as anti-Semitic?

Such as what?

It already is

Fair, but that’s much more easily monitored and heavily government controlled/regulated than a ship could be.

Nuclear power in the hands of private individuals/companies?

What could possibly go wrong?

Is just what-aboutry. If you don’t know something, it’s ok just to say “I don’t know”

I know full well why those groups have been ‘proscribed’. It’s all part of the relentless attack on the Left, by Starmer and the other Blairites. Who want to completely control the party for their own ends, and make it more right-wing. Something you and others seem loathe to admit and accept.

The problem at the moment is the left saw what happened to JC and feel free to do it to Starmer

It’s not ‘revenge’ as you seem to imagine it; it’s about trying to stop the party becoming merely another right-wing vehicle for power. Which, we’ve pretty much proven on here. Please feel free to explain just how the Left is using it’s ‘power’ to expel undesirables, and. shut down party democracy, in the way the Blairites are. Please. We’d love to know.

The Labour Party is the problem not the solution.

I agree.

There’s nothing inherently undemocratic in weighing the votes of MPs more heavily than individual members

There is. You just don’t understand what ‘democracy’ actually means.

It’s all about revenge, nothing else.

What was the Funny Tinge Party all about then? That was actual ‘revenge’, not the nonsense you’re imagining.

There’s some spectacular double standards going on here, but I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised.

I think what is happening here, is that the Armresters are now seeing Starmer for what he really is, but having ‘backed’ him against that awful Jeremy Corbyn, with his awful policies that everyone actually seems to like, they cannot concede they were wrong, as their egos won’t allow it, so instead have to attack the ‘other side’. ‘Oh but look at those awful Lefties they’re so mean and nasty!’.

Pathetic. Not to mention cowardly. Takes real courage to admit you were wrong. We’ve not seen any of that displayed here. And that’s typical of the right. Gutless.

.

Feel free to point out why any sensible leadership would have these organisations within it’s party?

Feel free to point out why any sensible leadership would want a right-wing organisation such as Blue Labour connected in any way with the party?

“Tuesday’s speech was the first time that Starmer could speak directly to the nation about who he was and what he stood for. Labour is under no pressure to develop a manifesto, it needed a general direction of travel, a sense of mission and of vision. A sense of the temper of the man who was leading it. And he seized the opportunity to express the ethics of a profoundly conservative person in a way that no member of the Conservative front bench possibly could.”

I was saying the complete opposite, that there are people complicit on both sides as regards an inwards looking at war with itself Labour Party. Not “fine people” at all, but myopic fools gifting Johnson and his fellow travellers a free ride.

Those ‘myopic fools’ were the very ones who continually undermined Corbyn, and utterly failed to get behind the party in order to effectively challenge the tories, which led to the election disaster. That is 100% down to them. They’re the right wing Blairites who are more than happy to destroy Labour, simply for their own personal gain. Anyone who is now challenging that right wing cabal. Isn’t ‘myopic’, they’re seeing the disaster for what it really is. It’s ironic that your own ‘myopia’ prevents you from seeng this yourself.

My experience is that all WP garments lose waterproofness if you wash them too often; each wash degrades the fabric, and no amount of re=treatment really solves things. But not washing stuff leads to a build up of oils and grease on the fabric surface, which further degrades the waterproofness. The real secret to keeping a garment fully waterpoof indefinitely is….

…never using it.

My wife, who is truly one of the most capable people I’ve ever met, ‘can’t do’ a lot of things. Very often, these involve some physical effort, getting dirty, are boring, etc. So I do them. And lo; they get done. Without her having to do anything.

Genius. All with the power of her mind…

No wait; let’s hear from the Professor of Global Politics at the RSE (Ramsbottom School of Economics). :D

Doesn’t matter, it’s all falling apart now anyway. It’s been on the cards for ages.

Seems even Sleepy Joe reckons neoliberalism is over:

https://english.elpais.com/usa/2021-04-23/joe-bidens-drive-to-end-40-years-of-neoliberal-hegemony.html

What is it with the need for insults?

Because they have no coherent, intelligent argument. It’s easier to continue to hurl abuse, than actually challenge anything. Look how none have actually answered any questions as to how things might actually be better under Starmer, for example.

I’m still waiting to be schooled on just how great neoliberalism has worked out for everyone. I suspect I’ll be waiting for some time…

starmer shouldnt be wasting his time doing it, but equally the left or whoever is objecting should just shrug & say, OK whatevs, this isnt ideal but Ill keep schtum because policies matter more

So, just like what the Blairites did, then? Oh….

The US has a neoliberal economy, yet so does Germany. Other than the basics of capitalism, they have very little in common. You blanket condemn all forms of neoliberalism and then get your petticoats all ruffled when you’re accused of sixth form level politics”

Oh dear. Do you really think that repeating the term ‘sixth form level politics’ makes you look clever? ‘Petticoats ruffled’; nice bit of misogyny to go with the ageism and ableism too…

Please; feel free to explain to us thickies how well ‘neoliberalism’ (perhaps ‘ordoliberalism’ in Germany) is going in both the US and Germany, as well as the subtle yet distinct differences between the two nations economies. And how neoliberalism is going to bring us into a wonderful, shiny capitalist utopia.

FFS.

Really? After all the abuse of ‘Lefties’ that’s taken place on this thread, all the comments about ‘sixth formers’, ‘tin-foil-helmetted nutters’, the insinuations that anyone on the Left has mental health issues, the ageist abuse towards Corbyn, etc etc etc; and what upsets you is ‘Bedwetters’?

Really?

(Don’t anyone tell him about the unfounded and extremely offensive insinuations and accusations of anti-Semitism that also took place on here, eh?)

Oy vey.

A left wing troll telling a labour party member he’s a Tory…….,

Lol! In the last 24 hours, I’ve been called both a right wing and left wing troll. Make your minds up! :D

Oh, and if someone espouses neoliberal values, is a fan of Margaret Thatcher’s Greatest Legacy, and hates Lefties, then, y’know; if it looks like a duck and quacks…

Not really. I’d happily hand the running of the country over to Tesco or Amazon. At least they’d be better at sorting the logistics

Well that’s what you’ve got now, under the tories, so what are you moaning about? You’re a tory; just embrace it and then you can happily be on the ‘winning’ team.

You think that replacing Raab&Co in government with Raynor&Co wouldn’t make a difference to the real world we live in?

Not really, no. Labour are currently a neoliberal party, whose current leadership is following the Blairite vision set out in 1997. And that’s gone well, hasn’t it?

Just going to remind everyone of this post from well over a year ago:

I’m just hoping the rumours are true (IIRC it was in the Guardian) that the first thing Kier Starmer is going to do is have a night of the long knives to clear out every last one of the utterly useless Corbynites, both on the front bench and behind the scenes, and actually appoint some people who are capable of finding their own arses using both hands.

I’m also hoping that involves firing Richard Burgon into the sun.

There needs to be a Kinnock/Militant style purge to even think dragging the labour party back from its Corbynite political irrelevence, where its presently languishing in its own delusional ‘we won the argument’ bullshit

Worked out really really well, that plan by Starmer, didn’t it?

Will the Tony Benn Memorial University ever be built?

Blair will have taken the money to build a monument to himself, instead. Oh, he did; it’s called the Tory Party.

Bless the Bedwetters, for they knoweth not even their own delusion…

Because I despise them with every fibre of my being and desperately want to see a labour government

But what do you mean by a ‘Labour government’? A government which holds Socialist principles at it’s core, which exists to represent working people in parliament, or the Blairite right-wing shell of self-interested neoliberals who will happily hand power to corporate interests, in exchange for enormous personal wealth?

how about answering the question I asked about who are you going to vote for to get your left wing party?

Richard Burgon. Next question…