Santa Cruz 5010 CC

Too heavy. I’m looking for something around 25lbs or lower. I don’t mind a pound or so over that, but I really don’t want a 30+lb bike. I think I’ve said this enough times now.

I hears ya. Is your MF amp an A1? Or A100? Everybody I knew who had those (they were very popular in the 90s), had problems with them (largely overheating leading to component failure). The A1 was particularly bad;a friend had one that went in 3 times for servicing, only to go pop again within a short time. He ended up actually throwing it in the bin. Summed up a lot of British hi-fi kit of that era; lovely sound, but crap build quality (trying to keep prices down to compete with Japanese kit). I went for an Audiolab pre-power setup, as it’s very simple electronics, not the most amazing amp ever, but plenty of power, and very reliable (my pre-amp has a slightly buzzing transformer that needs sorting, common issue on the 8000A, but it’s been working like that for many years now).

I think you’d be disappointed with a Sonos Amp. I was. I consider it about 3x overpriced. It’s a pretty bog standard amp, in fancy packaging, with the Sonos brand. I put it in the same category as stuff like Bose, Beats by Dre, etc; ‘lifestyle’ products. That said, I’m an Apple cult member. :D The Homepod sounded much better than any of the Sonos wireless speakers, and as good as stuff costing a lot more. Amazing, actually. I’d been trialling some Sonos Play speakers (One, 3 and 5); they went straight back once I’d heard the Homepod. I wouldn’t call it ‘hi-fi’, but the best bang for your buck for a small wireless home speaker. Being in the Apple walled garden does mean things ‘just work’ though, it has to be said. The Sonos app needed sorting several times.

Seems you won’t be swayed by anything we say

Not at all; I’m merely trying to ascertain the facts, rather than simply acting on the subjective opinions of others. And I didn’t ‘give up’, I just didn’t ride off road much in all that time. And I have ridden various bikes in that time; if you read my posts, you’d have understood this. And far from not being ‘swayed’ by advice; I’m now looking at the more ‘XC’ type of bikes that are out there. So that’s been very useful.

Sorry, but you sound like the sort of person who looks for an excuse as to why you shouldn’t get involved.

No; you weigh up the pros and cons, and act accordingly. Risking escalation of a situation over something relatively petty, isn’t being ‘hard’, it’s being stupid.

I’m not judging that

But you just did…

As I said we’d have crossed that bridge when we came to it. Had we thought that would be the case we would have taken a few of the extra lads from their rugby club but since he was expecting a lone woman we didn’t think that would be necessary.

So; your version of ‘proportionate response’ to what is fairly low level crime (not condoning bike theft, it’s horrible to suffer, but in the grand scheme of things, it’s low level), is to turn up mob handed to physically intimidate someone? So; what if they’d then got their rugby mates, who are bigger than your rugby mates, what do you do then? What if, when faced with such a scary situation, someone pulls out a knife or even a gun, and someone gets seriously injured or killed? Over a stolen bike? And you think that’s ok?

So what do you suggest in the meantime? Just let people steal from me or my family and friends?

Maybe consider what is appropriate and proportionate action, rather than going round there mob-handed and running the risk of causing/encountering violence? Yes it’s frustrating, but that’s life.

The truth is most of the people who act tough and menacing aren’t, they are just people used to getting their own way through threat and people being submissive.

I can’t quite believe the irony here…

The Avon and Somerset Police Federation branded the rioters as “animals” who were “hell bent” on carrying out “politically motivated attacks” on officers who feared for their lives.

Inspector Andy Roebuck, chair of the Avon and Somerset Police Federation, said: “They tried to set fire to a police van with officers inside. To my mind that is attempted murder. I spoke to two officers who said they genuinely feared they would be killed. We should not have to put up with this.”

Insp Roebuck said ultra-left activists had launched a “premeditated” and “orchestrated” attack using the cover of the ‘Kill the Bill’ demonstration that had marched peacefully through the city.

See; using language and rhetoric such as this, is only going to inflame things further. The use of the term ‘ultra left’ (my bold) definitely politicises his argument. And there we have it. With absolutely no idea as to the individual political affiliations of those involved, he’s made an assumption that they were ‘ultra left’. They may well have been, but that’s irrelevant. He’s clearly shown what ‘side’ he’s on. Battle lines drawn.

Anyone else thinking of Steven Toast at the title of this thread?

I can hear you, Clem Fandango…

And don’t worry about weight, as unless you’re spending a serious amount of cash, it’ll be heavier than the past – as it’s far, far more capable.

It’s such claims that are quite mystifying. Far, far more capable? Will it pedal up the hills for me then? As for weight; see above for my views on that. Cash? I think, from a bit of research, I’d be looking at around £4-6k for something I’d be happy with spec wise, as prices seem to have inflated somewhat in line with spec levels. I will not be spending £10k though. That just seems silly.

And if weight bothers you, and you’re a “wheels on the ground rider”, get a gravel bike.

I could just put drop bars on my hybrid, if I wanted that. I don’t.

They really were busy last night in Bristol if they managed all of that.

Shame you didn’t understand my point. Ah well never mind.

Probably why there’s an ongoing public inquiry into the two years Met units that did all this

And why did it take so long, and why has there been so much resistance from the police, to give information/evidence? And why the continued insistence with NCND?

But the real question is; why did it all (and much much more) happen in the first place? None of us voted for that…

Hang on, is this the same poster who an hour ago was delivering his own “we will fight them on the beaches” speach from his keyboard?

Why, yes, yes it is! How about that, eh? Carry on misunderstanding though.

yeah its those jumps and some further up the hill. Here is an older pic as I don’t have one of their current state:

Lordy. I struggle to see why anyone would have an issue with that, I have to say.

Make that decision at the time… now we know where they live.

No but you turn up, and the odds are against you. What do you do then? Go ahead with your original plan? Or, let’s face it, you’d run away. And therein lies the rub; it’s all about power. It’s all fine whilst power is on your side, but when it’s against you, what do you do then? There’s always, always, someone bigger, harder, or just more mental and prepared to use extreme violence, than you, out there. And if you continue down the route of using violence as a ‘tool’, one day, you’ll meet them.

Tried this last night. My wife soon went on her ‘phone, and I ended up picking my feet and wondering which power sander to buy. It failed to hold our attention, unlike many of the foreign stuff on Netflix etc. I did find it amusing that the copper from ‘Man Like Mobeen’ is also a copper in this! Couldn’t really take it seriously after that.

It’s not just the flywheel effect that makes 29ers faster – the angle at which a larger diameter wheel impacts upon obstructions is shallower so it’s marginally less likely to get hung up, and so on.

Interesting.

you really need to go and try some modern bikes out to see what you like the feel of

Yeah, not so easy at the moment. I was hoping for things to have settled down by now, so I could at least be riding this summer, but I think we’re probably looking at next autumn now, realistically, and certainly no sooner for foreign holidays (if we’re ever allowed to go to Europe again…).

I have a sneaking suspicion that you might actually just be better off finding a used version of your old Stumpy and just buying that..

I did peruse a few on Ebay recently, but the prices seemed a bit steep for such old bikes! Covid premium? I’d quite like to try something new; it’s nice to buy new things. If bikes have improved as much as people are saying, surely I need something new, right? ;)

Or you could try to find something secondhand (wondering if some of the bikes impulse bought in lockdown will be finding their way into the secondhand market yet?) and try something a few years old for less cost that new to see if you like it.

That is also a consideration. I had thought about that. A neighbour paid £200 for a real piece of crap advertised as ‘vintage’, some old Peugeot thing from the 80s. The kind of thing someone would have gladly given away, prior to Covid. So I’m wondering if the ‘end’ of all the lockdowns etc, coupled with the shortening days and colder/wetter weather, and xmas coming etc, might see a few bargains start to emerge. One can only hope.

At 5’7, I doubt squeezing onto a small is going to work out for you

How very dare you!! Oh, ‘onto‘, sorry…

CoG of the wheel, yes that is at axle level, so an inch or so
CoG of the bike, minimal change maybe a mm or so.
CoG of the bike+rider. So infinitessimally small, and irrelevant compared to how other differences between bikes will have more of a difference.

Interesting. Thanks.

Are those little jumps really what the local gammon are hyperventilating about? Jesus H Christ. I imagined there were like 30 foot gap jumps and all sorts…

idiot.

You and my wife are in agreement about one thing, at least!

What powers have they been exercising that haven’t been granted by parliament at one time or another?

Where do you want me to start? Racial profiling? I don’t remember that going through parliament. Spying on people involved in legitimate political activism, by forming relationships with them yet not revealing their true identities? I don’t remember that going through parliament. Spying on trade union activists, then passing on information to construction firms, in order that they could be blacklisted? I don’t remember that going through parliament. I won’t go on, as I desperately need the loo, but you can have those for starters.

Ah, that’s better. Now regardless of whatever you, or I, or anyone else here thinks, there is a growing perception amongst the UK public, that the police are increasingly politicised, and act only when it suits the interests of the ‘elites’. If that perception continues to grow, and that mistrust deepens, then we will see a lot more violence and disorder. Ultimately, it comes down to individual officers making the decision to do what they themsleves feel is ‘right’. If that means ‘following orders’ and bashing a few protestors, so be it. But they have that choice. Nobody forces them to put on that uniform. And if they do so, under the auspices of serving and protecting society, then they have to make those decisions as individuals. And ask themselves, who are they really serving?

No violence was needed, just 3 blokes saying we’ve come to collect his bike now hand it over.

What if there’d been 6 bigger blokes, waiting for them?

Lol! Cougar; watch your blood pressure, yeah? ;)

Yes I was thinking this aswell, the counciller who came up to us complained that it cost thousands to clear the jumps. Then they are rebuilt by an army of kids in 30mins. Surely it’s in the council’s best interests to come up with a good solution instead of constantly throwing money at it?

Kids need an outlet for their energies. Kids are full of energy. Kids are also devious, and spend much of their time trying to work out how to do what they want, regardless of what the ‘adults’ tell them. This is just part of their nature. Always has been. It’s why society has progressed beyond hairy cave dwellers grunting at each other. So; far better to seek a compromise that keeps people at least reasonably happy, than continuing to oppose them. Because that has never worked, ever. In the entire history of humanity. Those in the local council should reflect on this, and think about how to create a workable solution, rather than continuing to oppose.

Seems one kid tried the ‘official’ route, some time ago. Seems that, unsurprisingl, got nowhere:

https://www.richmondandtwickenhamtimes.co.uk/news/1265664.dirt-bike-boy-delivers-his-plans-to-mp/

You’re the one who feels the need to lash out. Intellectual small man syndrome?

Lol. Triggered, much? Why are you even bothering to respond, if that’s your opinion of me? Lashing out? Says the person dishing out a snide attempt at an ‘insult’. Go you!

How old are you? 12?

Only when I buy a Wagon Wheel. Then, I’m filled with bitter disappointment. It’s a lesson I’ve never learned…

next will be a SONOS Amp to see how that performs.

I’ll tell you now; I’ve tried loads of Sonos stuff, even owned a couple of bits. And tried a plethora of other kit. For the money, there are so many much better options. The Yamaha WXA-50 sounds noticeably better than the Sonos Amp, and is nearly half the price (and has better functionality). For the price of the Sonos Amp, you could spend just a little more and get a Quad Vena 2, which will blow the Sonos Amp out of the water (overkill for something like those ceiling speakers though, you’d really want to be pairing it with some proper floorstanders to really enjoy it). Or you could add something like the Yamaha WXAD-10, to a decent basic amplifier, and achieve much better results than the Sonos.

Or you can grow up and figure out that engaging and getting a seat at the table gets you far better results than “civil dissobedience”.

That’s working out really well for the majority, isn’t it?

You think this is all about ‘sticking it to the man’? Don’t talk wet.

No; it’s about getting what you feel you need, out of life. Regardless of your opinions, obviously these youngsters feel they want and need somewhere to have fun, so in their own eyes, they’re being ‘proactive’. Yes, they have much to learn about life, but forcing kids to be subservient and meekly obedient, is why we have such a weak, subservient and pathetically obedient society now. You’re just jealous because you’ve got no fight in you. Leave the fighting to those who can; you stick to the safety of behind your keyboard. The strong will protect you. Hopefully.

I had an enforced gap year when I got made redundant at 50. Luckily had a decent payout plus redundancy insurance (yay for PPI!) so lived it up for a year. Went to Canada, rode a lot… couldn’t properly relax cos the ppi meant I had to keep looking for a job (or I would’ve lost £1000 a month). Worse thing was getting back into working again (£20Kpa pay cut, oh yes), if you have an employer that will support your gap year, that’s gotta be better, obviously. As is doing it by choice, I guess!

Did you feel your life had been enhanced by your travels, though? Was your year off beneficial to your well-being? Were there benefits overall, offset against the downsides?

because they’re faster.

Are they? Hmm. I would have thought it was a trade off between acceleration and agility of smaller wheels, versus the ‘flywheel’ effect of larger wheels at constant speed. So, swings and roundabouts? In fairness, my hybrid is actually not bad off road; not Alpine type stuff, but the more gentle forest trails etc. I’m also wondering about centre of gravity; surely smaller wheels place this lower down? It is certainly interesting that 27.5″ wheels have appeared; a compromise between the two? Could 27.5″ wheels be put on a bike designed for 29″? How might that affect things?

Extinction rebellion managed to bring central London to a standstill with peaceful protests, garnered worldwide attention and forced the government into better environmental policies. They did that without setting anything on fire or harming anyone. Organised protest – not a 1/2 day march. A properly organised protest.

XR was organised virtue signalling, headed by a bunch of privileged middle class hypocrites who fly round the globe to go to yoga retreats etc. All XR really managed to do was piss off a load of working class Londoners trying to get to work, so that they can pay their bills, feed their kids etc. Kind of ran out of steam after some idiot jumped on top of a train at Canning Town, then got dragged off and had a slap for his troubles. XR had a lot of public support initially, but then lost its way when protestors thought it was a good idea to prevent ordinary people getting to work. People who probably lost money/faced disciplinary action/got sacked because they were repeatedly late in. That had a real impact on peoples’ lives, but in a negative way. Not the way to win friends and influence people. As for Bristol; maybe a few coppers with broken bones might be a deterrent to them doing the government’s dirty work. Or they might steam in much heavier handed, next time, and show the public what they’re really about (militarised police by stealth). And then we’ll see some real action…

Perhaps those kids just wanted to build some jumps in the local woods, to be able to let off some steam, but the local council kept flattening them…

I was travelling all over London, on buses, from about the age of 8, unaccompanied. I was travelling to school by Tube, from 11. Us kids were scooting about on our bikes, all over, from a very young age. Kids like to have adventures. Most don’t come to any harm at all.

Our society is making it far too hard for people to become independent.

But surely, being ‘independent’ means being free-willed, and free thinking? We can’t possibly have that.

None of which will do their short travel bikes in anything other than 29er – and there’s a reason for that.

Which is?

The people that caused the violence weren’t protesters, they were thugs looking for any excuse to break the law with little consequence. They went there looking to have a laugh, a get together, a fight and they started one.

That’s not fair. Not all coppers are bastards.

The thread title is about “resolving argument”. There are two ways to resolve an argument. One is for all the parties to sit down and work out some sort of agreement. Ideally, both sides are better off. The other is to go to battle and the strongest side will get what they want while the weaker side will get nothing

.

That tends to be the outcome when ‘weaker’ groups sit down with local authorities to try to reach an agreement, mainly. A group of youngsters will get nowhere trying things the ‘official’ route, in my experience. However; a bit of properly organised civil disobedience, might actually work well in the long run. Build jumps, council spend money flattening them. Build jumps again, repeat. Eventually the council will get fed up/run out of spending money, and either relent or ignore. The only winners are the plant hire firms. And each time, the kids learn new ways of thwarting authority. Which, given today’s climate, can only be a good thing. As for all of you saying ‘obey authority’; people like you stand by and watch as stronger people take a stand. So just stay out of the way; your apathy and weak mindedness achieves nothing. Ever.

If you have a source of income, then go for it. My wife and I are considering this as well; rent our home for a year or so (London, so enough from the rental alone to sustain us pretty much anywhere really), just travel around as the mood takes us. The only really issue is with a minimum rental agreement; if we get homesick after 3 months, but the agreement is for 6/12, and the tenants don’t want to move out, we’re a bit stuffed. Happened to friends who went to India for ‘a year’, and where back inside 3 months. 3 months living in a mouldy old caravan on someone’s drive. If you don’t have a source of income sufficient to meet at least half your travelling expenses, then either you need quite a bit in savings, or risk serious problems if anything goes wrong. Sudden repatriation can cost a fortune.

Nice. Some brands I’ve never heard of. What happened to Marin? I’ll be more interested in brands that are (normally) readily available form a ‘proper’ bike shop, rather than online only, as I’ll be wanting to actually test ride anything, plus, I’d quite like humans to deal with for after sales service etc. I wouldn’t even discount Halfords, because for all their many faults, they do tend to be good at refunding stuff etc, and there are branches everywhere. The small independent bike shops round here tend to be rip-off joints in my experience. And what happened to Evans? Gone? Shame.

I do like Pink Floyd, but for me, they finished in 1983 with The Final Cut. Roger Waters was right. I went to the concert in an old shed in London’s Docklands, maybe 1989? It was shite. If there’s anything pre-1983 on their list, I’d be up for having a watch, mind, so thanks.

That is what I think of modern bikes but luckily there are other options. I also don’t really like 29″ wheels even though I ride them. They are no doubt faster but I actually preferred 26″

That’s interesting. My only experience of larger wheels is from y hybrid, and on borrowed/hired bikes. I found them all a bit ponderous by comparison although that is from memory, rather than side-by-side testing. Turning circle is definitely more barge-like.

Part of the reason that bikes have gotten heavier is that they’re a lot more durable now than they used to be, and have to be to pass the requisite CEN testing. Once you’re actually out on the trails, 25lbs vs. 27lbs isn’t actually a huge difference, and anecdotal evidence shows that a little more weight and solidity actually contributes to a more stable ride.

Yet the Specialized Epic Evo frame is just 1659g/3.65lb? I think that’s lighter than my old Trek hardtail frame! Astonishing. And whilst 25 v 27 lbs might not be too noticeable, 25 v 30+ definitely is. As for ‘durability’; aren’t the CEN tests way in excess of what is necessary for a bike frame for the vast majority of riders?

Have a look at the Canyon Lux CF, Trek Top Fuel, Orbea OIZ, Scott Spark RC for starters

I will, thanks.

There are lifts in the Alps, used them many times. If you really just want to do XC then buy an XC bike. Mountain biking and in particular UK Mountain biking is very descent focused these days.

If you are really into doing epics and big climbs then get an XC bike like the Epic EVO or a Top fuel. If you want to enjoy descending then get a trail bike.

The lifts are limited to the ski resorts, mainly, and kind of defeat the object, for me. Aaron Gwin might be quick down a hill, but he’s not taking in the lovely view. Shame.

Bit tricky to be apolitical when they are under direct control from the Home Office who agress their funding, objectives and can pick and choose their Chief Constables etc.

Sussed the quote function, yay!

And herein lies the problem. Having one party, for whom an actual minority of the population actually voted, having near-absolute power over those institutions of society that govern all our lives, is wrong. Because it’s a gateway to totalitarianism. We need political reform now more than ever before.

“I live at the very southern edge of the Cotswolds”

Do you have enemies in Bourton-on-the-Water?

“Why Bristol though? Never really had it down as a hot bed of subversion…”

You need to read up on the history of Bristol.

No, the youths in that video are out of order, no question. But as for using force/violence to deal with the behaviour of someone doing something you don’t approve of, where do you draw the line? So if someone thinks it’s ok to assault a cyclist on a forbidden path, is that ok because they’re able to justify it to themselves? In that video, it would be perfectly legal to use ‘appropriate force’ to try to prevent a breach of the peace and/or injury to persons. So if you’ve got the stones, go for it. We’re increasingly living in a society where money and power talk louder than the ‘law’ anyway, see members of our political classes. So if you have the ‘power’, use it. That seems to be the message…

“Enough about the police, what about the protestors?”

Ha ha! That made me laugh.

I’ve very little sympathy for the police; if they allow themselves to be used as a political tool for a government, then the whole notion of ‘policing by consent’ collapses, as the police are duty bound to remain apolitical. The Clapham vigil debacle was just one example of how the police choose to be heavy handed when faced with little/no resistance. They weren’t so heavy handed when crowds of (mainly male) football fans gathered in Glasgow. Refusing to attend incidents where a woman was sexually assaulted on the night of the Clapham vigil, and where a woman reported a man performing a sex act in public, yet having sufficient resources to provide protection to rich people, embassies etc, just shows how the police aren’t doing their job of adequately protecting society.

What about if someone is riding a bike on a ‘footpath’, or path where bikes aren’t allowed to be ridden? Should someone resort to violence, if the rider doesn’t immediately respond to requests to not ride their bike there?

“More uninformed blather, trespass is not illegal”

Well done. You win the internet for today. You’ll be able to wear a nice pedant round your neck, to show off to everyone.

“If I trespass you wouldn’t know I’d been there”

I would. I have secret cameras. Everywhere. I’d set the dogs on you. No-one would ever know you’d been there…

“It’s curious how morals go out of the window when it’s in people’s favour”

Yep. That’s the world in which we live. If you ask me, it’s best to get your money’s worth out of it. Because someone else will always be out to **** you over.

My (highly enjoyable) ride today involved using paths where cycling is expressly forbidden.I made the difficult moral choice. I’m sure Hell will be nice and warm at least.

“Can I come round to your house redecorate your house and dig up the garden?”

Ooh yes please! Covid has meant we haven’t been able to get anyone in to do the decorating, and it’s well overdue. And the garden’s a mess too, but please; I wouldn’t want you to put your back out, or worse, keel over. That would be awkward explaining to the authorities.

“apart from anything else illegal trail building puts peoples backs up”

Are you aware that we have illegal activity (trespass) to thank for why we can now go riding our bikes in the countryside? Plus; graffiti art, the Civil Rights movement, etc. Back to your pipe and slippers and Daily Mail! ;)

“This is basically on of the richest residential areas on the verge of central London. Any kids whose parents can afford to live there have a min £1m house with plenty of spare cash to help their kids out with their new hobby.”

This is making amassive, and ill-informed assumption about ALL kids who might use a facility in a particular area. I know for a fact, many younger riders travel across London to get to popular skate parks, BMX tracks etc, so to suggest it’s just the ‘rich kids’, is actually quite prejudicial. You haven’t got a clue about the economics of anyone involved.

All power to the kids, I say. As for those saying ‘it’s vandalism’; get a life, grandad! Stuff like this has far less environmental impact than many things, including roads for people to drive cars on, so they can access the countryside…