I’m not watching the Novaramedia piece, because I think they are part of the problem

Part of what ‘problem’? Offering up opinions that conflict with your own narrow world view? I try to look at a broad range of opinions, to help form and influence my own, because I believe you should have an open mind, and be objective. Deliberately ignoring one particular media outlet because they don’t say what you want to hear, kind of sums up why Labour are where they are right now; not listening to people. Sorry, what was the problem again?

What the obsession with Mandleson?

it’s some thinly veiled anti-Semitism

Whilst Madelson and other prominent Jewish figures do receive appalling abuse, I doubt most of the revulsion towards him has anything to do with anti-Semitism. Because I doubt most people even know or care about him being Jewish. Whilst anti-Semitism, along with all forms of racism and prejudice, is a terrible thing and must be taken seriously, weaponising it just to silence any justifiable criticism is plain wrong. Not saying that’s what you were doing, but that’s often how it is used. I wouldn’t want Madelson anywhere near politics, simple because he’s a thoroughly nasty, mendacious little ****.

“I’m intensely relaxed about people getting filthy rich as long as they pay their taxes”

Nice. Let’s not forget he’s also an apologist for war crimes, as well as being complicit in those.

One problem with speaking out after a long time in the shadows, is that old ghosts come to haunt you:

https://skwawkbox.org/2019/08/01/mandelson-campbells-labour-argued-labour-could-discriminate-against-pakistanis-as-voters-might-not-like-them/

Oh dear.

Is it really too much to ask that Labour not be a safe space for such nasty ****?

Someone else made the comment about Labour being 2 or 3 parties in one, trying to appeal to too broad a church. This is true; unfortunately, it’s the powerful, wealthy right of the party that has disproportionate influence, and has caused the real damage. These people would be far more at home in the tory party. Therefore, the drive should be to push this fringe minority, for that’s what they are, out, and into the political wilderness. Maybe they can go and join Change UK, and moan about ‘funny tinged’ people.

Just want to add that I have a ‘crappy’ Clarke branded small bench drill, that I use for woodworking. I’ve owned it for over 10 years now, and it’s had a lot of use, and still going strong. It’s accurate enough for my needs, and I’m quite fussy. I doubt I’d want to use it for metalworking, but that’s not my thing anyway. It has drilled into aluminium and steel plate ok. I bought it from one of the big sheds; I didn’t have much money at that time, and not much space. It was only ever meant to be a ‘temporary’ solution, but it’s done very well, considering it was only £60 or something. If I were to replace it today, I’d go for something like an Axminster Trade, Record Power or similar.

Having used many brands such as Meddings, Startrite etc, I would say that buying a decent one can be a bit of a minefield; unless you really know what you’re looking for, and a decent working knowledge of such machines, you could end up with a real dog. Old drills have often had a hard life, and it’s about knowing how to service them, and identify any issues. I’d never recommend one to a novice, there’s a lot of proper knackered old junk out there. Tool auctions such as the MOD one as mentioned above, can be a much safer bet, as they’ll have been checked, but you’ll be paying quite a bit more, most likely. At least with a new drill, you’ll have a warranty, sales support etc. Old drills can be a real bargain though, especially the larger ones. They’re a bit like pianos; the idea is great, until you consider the logistics involved in transporting them, then finding space and setting them up properly. It is sad that many just end up in scrapyards though.

Not really. It’s actually a pretty poor indicator.

No it was a very good indicator. Many people hold xenophobic views, even if they don’t identify them as being ‘racist’ Such as the supposedly ‘legitimate concerns about immigration’ that people like Margaret Hodge might try to exploit. At the end of the day, it just comes down to fear and ignorance, mainly. It’s quite telling that in large towns and cities, with lots of diversity, brexit voting was at its lowest. Because people there are exposed to such diversity, and realise it isn’t a threat, so subsequently have less xenophobic opinions. London has a brown Mayor; can you imagine that in some of the Brexit strongholds of the north?

that headline might be misleading

“This includes editors and executives working for The Times, Sunday Times and the Sun newspapers.”

Nah. It’s pretty clear that it’s not just ‘innocent’ journalism. And Keunssberg and Peston are hardly impartial! Neither are people like Andrew Neil, Nick Robinson, Andrew Marr, John Humphries etc. They’re all sucking from the corporate tory teat, whilst being paid via ‘public’ money in the form of the licence fee. When those who are supposed to be impartial, aren’t, and in fact are part of the wider state propaganda machine, we have a problem.

The claim is constantly be made on here that the British people have recently become more racist in the way they vote. I see no evidence of that.

Well, Brexit was a pretty good indicator of the level xenophobia in our society, as much of it was driven by racism, pure and simple. But this does open up a whole new debate around whether the UK is ‘more racist’ now, or whether it’s just that such attitudes are more openly voiced, as inherent racism within people and communities, has become emboldened? I think it actually has much more to do with class; as our society becomes fractured into ever smaller subsets of the greater class system, so people are finding themselves increasingly alienated from the identities they once took for granted. What is it to be ‘working’ or ‘middle’ class these days? The lines seem increasingly blurred. I see people from very working class backgrounds, proudly announcing those credentials, whilst actually living a much more middle class lifestyle and having middle class ‘values’ (whatever they are). Seems that the constant glorification of the working classes (as promoted in popular culture, the media etc) leads people to believe it’s great to be of a subservient class whose role it is to do the donkey work to generate wealth for others. But as these identities are exposed and challenged, so people are less secure within such and become more defensive, leading to the fear and insecurity which fuels xenophobia. It’s always better to have ‘others’ for hate to be directed towards, rather than scrutiny falling on oneself.

Personally I think their influence, particularly in the age of social media and ever diminishing readerships, is hugely over-exaggerated, both by themselves and by those who seek a convenient bogeyman

I always try to base my own opinions on fact, as much as is possible, or at least do my own research by reading different points of view etc. But a statement like this is indicative of just how little many people actually know about the influence on our society, by very powerful wealthy elites. People like Murdoch, and others (many of whom remain almost invisible), have had such a grip on politics since parliament was first formed. It is worth noting that Rupert Murdoch, whilst not even a UK citizen, has far greater access to the British PM, than virtually any other British person.

“Hacked Off can today reveal, after an analysis of Government transparency data, that employees of Murdoch’s newspapers met with Government Ministers or their advisors a staggering 206 times in the last 2 years. This includes editors and executives working for The Times, Sunday Times and the Sun newspapers.”

The average person would be lucky to meet with their local MP once a year, never mind anyone in the upper echelons of government. To say that the influence of the likes of Murdoch and other media barons etc, is ‘over exaggerated’, is either hopelessly naive, ignorant, stupid, or in denial. Or just simply bullshit. Just a couple of minutes lazy Googling, would have saved the embarrassment of posting such bewildering rubbish.

I know that you like to cast Murdoch et al as evil masterminds manipulating the population, but it’s a chicken and egg situation that you’ve got the wrong way around

No. Either you’re just saying that as a wind-up, or it’s YOU who have things the wrong way round.

“At the start of 2011, 1 billion people daily digested his products—books, newspapers, magazines, TV shows and films—and News Corporation, his holding company, had annual sales of $33 billion… In Britain, he had come to control 40% of national newspaper circulation… In his native Australia his domination was greater still; 70% of the newspaper market; while in his adopted United States, through the New York Post, the Wall Street Journal and the most watched cable news outlets, Fox News, Murdoch exerted a strong pull on American politics”

Blair was a very close friend of Rupe’s, wasn’t he?

‘Patriots’, I think they like to be called these days.

When he was elected as leader by accident, I said Jeremy Corbyn would destroy the party.

Lol! Have you started on the sauce a bit early today? Corbyn’s currently suspended. Has been for a while now. This is all on Armrest’s watch. As much as you need your bogeyman, to blame Corbyn for ‘destroying the party’, when it’s actually Armrest that has overseen a massive exodus of members, supporters and now voters, is just delusional. Take some water with it. ;)

Good response. So intelligent, thoughtful and insightful.

Their support of BLM, an inherently rac1st organisation, its not that different to the KKK but from the other extreme.

Wow…

Bridges will have chased Binners and Kelvin into the arms of Boris by the end of the day.

They really don’t need chasing. Going by their views expressed on here, they’re already most of the way there anyway.

Prior to that he was called a racist (by you lot) for pointing out another fact that most of the refugees and asylum seekers are placed in the North compared to the south, placing a disproportionate burden on public services. Again: that’s simply a fact. And everyone knows it. How is pointing this out racist?

It’s racist because it’s not only wrong, but why is he making an issue of a very tiny number of people anyway? Does he not care about them? Clearly not. Have you any idea of the actual numbers of asylum seekers and refugees in the UK as a percentage of the population? It’s really, really tiny. Many such people get little or no financial support from the government/local authorities, and are reliant on charities. Regardless, the actual cost to the UK is so insignificant, compared to something like MPs expenses, or providing security to people like ex PMs and the aristocracy. So why is Burnham, supposedly a ‘man of the people’, even talking about this non-issue? And why have you decided to mention it?

When you scream RACIST! (which you yourself do at the drop of a hat) about things like this, this is exactly why a lot of voters roll their eyes at the left. Because what you and are doing is effectively placing any sensitive topics off limits, and its exactly this that allows the right to build the narrative that ‘its political correctness gown maaaaad’ and ‘loony lefties’

When you try to use imagined racism in people you don’t like, yet ignore the actual racism in people you do, you merely exacerbate the already growing problem. And you become an apologist for racism. When you pander to racists, you’re no better than them. Pure and simple. The only people using the ‘narrative’ of which you speak, are the right and far right. By pandering to such sentiments, people like Burnham just become part of the ever-increasing problem. But hey; you’ve already decided to ignore Blair’s genocidal xenophobia, so ignoring other racists because they appeal to your own ideals, must come quite easily to you. Boris will welcome you with open arms.

Lol!

You see that as racist?

Yes, because it is.

Thats one interpretation

Andy Burnham, the mayor of Greater Manchester in Lancashire, North England, also said that the spike in COVID-19 cases had been impacted by gatherings “in multi-generational households”.

When the BBC interviewer asked if he was referring predominantly to the Asian population of Greater Manchester, Burnham said: “Yes, I do mean that.”

I’m gonna call it what it is. Blaming a particular section of the population for something that negatively affects all of us. It’s no different to what the far-right do.

So yeah; **** him. Nasty racist little shit.

Why are you are clutching at straws making up assumed things?

your assumption is wrong but I don’t need to justify it to you… you aren’t my neighbours

You really are being pathetic .. it’s not a business and H&S concerns are non of your business either..

Why are you so defensive?

Do you trawl eBay looking for people selling their old bikes and then tell them they are acting as a business and should be leaving them out to get stolen?

Yes. Next question.

Burnham lost to Milliband, and then to Corbyn. Two time failure. Nobody likes failure. He wouldn’t last 5 seconds as Labour leader, without the tories deriding him for being such a failure. Besides, he pandered to racism. **** him.

The left (labour?) need to understand that people are not going to vote for socialism

I think a lot of work needs doing to reverse the US style ‘socialism is communism is Stalinism is evel’ type mindset, that’s been peddled by the right and far-right for decades, and has gradually infected UK and wider European politics. So, a lot more ‘socialism is free healthcare, education and support for the needy’ type rhetoric. IE; all those things that would make our society better. But whilst massive greedy corporate interests are lining up to take their slices of our public life, Socialism will remain the bogeyman. The keyt is to attack that greed; ‘look at this rich ****; he’s rich and you’re poor, cos he’s taken all YOUR money’. appeal to people’s base instincts. People soon rally round socialists ideals and principles, in times of crisis and need. They just don’t realise it.

If he goes who replaces him god knows if you ask Twitter its Andy Burnham.

Is that Manchester’s own Andy ‘Blame the brown people for spreading CV’ Burnham? No thanks. Blairite, lost leadership elections twice; who wants a loser?

Corbyns far left

Oh dear.

This English disease

It’s not exclusively ‘English’. Many people in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are ignorant, selfish narrow minded **** as well.

Yeah you can piss off with that paternalist patronising bollocks. The entire system is corrupt and stacked against the interests of working people. The problem isn’t which party exercises politics, the problem is politics, and I’m having nothing to do with it.

Fair enough. You don’t have to waste any more time in this thread then.

‘Your opinion is valueless unless you play our game’. Well f*** that!

I totally get that. I can’t say I was particularly motivated to walk the 300m or so to the local polling station, just to scrawl a few ‘X’s’ against the names of people representing parties/groups that might vaguely represent my own interests, but I did so anyway, because even though voting might not achieve much, apathy achieves nothing.

Just out of interest; what do people on here think ‘left wing’ really means?

Right, and Tories don’t give a shit about protecting anyone

But people believe they do. This is the thing; many people believe Boris will protect them from the marauding hordes of immigrants, coming here to take ‘their’ jobs, infect ‘their’ society and communities with alien ideologies, and murder them. That’s why Blair took the UK into an illegal war.

You don’t sign up to be a Labour politician if you don’t care about working class people wherever they’re from. Why would you?

Money? Power? Influence? Hasn’t done Blair etc, any harm.

Labour’s principles are to stick up for the poor and disadvantaged

They may well be. The elite who run the party aren’t abiding by those principles though. This much is clear.

If Blair had been left wing he wouldn’t have been elected in the first place

He pretended to be ‘left wing’. He went round calling himself a ‘socialist’.

“I am a socialist not through reading a textbook that has caught my intellectual fancy, nor through unthinking tradition, but because I believe that, at its best, socialism corresponds most closely to an existence that is both rational and moral.”

So…

I stayed at home this time. Or rather my postal vote is still in a pile of unopened junk mail. I know plenty of others who did the same.

Then sorry to say this, but if you don’t at least participate in the (so-called) democratic process, then you can’t expect your opinions to be acknowledged or respected. You could at least have just spoiled your ballot papers. I know, it’s probably not really ‘worth’ the effort, but if you can’t be bothered to vote, then why should anyone bother to listen to you?

Lol! So that went well… :D

The Tories have no policies, no vision, have to be blackmailed into feeding hungry children, give money to their mates, lie and cheat, couldn’t give a toss about the folk in Hartlepool. That’s why people vote for them.

Truth is, that the middle class neoliberal elite that run Labour today, couldn’t give a toss about the folk in Hartlepool either. The only difference is, that the tories do what they want and don’t give a ****, whilst Labour politicians try to pretend they do care (bar a small handful, but it’s very small). And the veil has slipped. People are now seeing the Labour elite for what they really are; wealthy, privileged and contemptuous of the working classes, the very people they are supposed to represent. Fact is most people are politically ignorant; this thread is evidence enough of that. So populism works far better than vague verbosity. The Labour elite are insulated and isolated from the majority of people, and their wishy washy liberalism just doesn’t wash. Most people just want to feel safe and protected, and for all Boris’ faults, he appeals because he is a bully, arrogant and politically bombproof. It’s like how kids back the bully in the school playground, because they don’t want to be bullied themselves. Whilst the focus is on someone else, it’s not on you. But Labour haven’t been led by such a figure since Blair, and that’s really where the current problems began. Had Blair been committed to even vaguely left-wing principles, and not facilitated the political shift towards the right, Boris wouldn’t be enjoying the success he is. Armrest’s attempt at populism failed dismally; even his own MPs have said so:

Good to see valueless flag waving and suit wearing working so well… or not?

— Lloyd Russell-Moyle ??️‍? (@lloyd_rm) May 6, 2021

So where does Starmer and Labour go from here? Hemorrhaging votes, supporters and members, it’s looking very bleak. Be interesting* to read what the Armresters on here think.

*I say ‘interesting’; I mean ‘amusing’.

let’s be honest, a proven group of scumbag criminals they might have gained a nicer group name for themselves.

EDIT: Reported. No need to engage any further.

£249 for a pannier rack?? Even the Tubus Titanium ones are only half that!

I’ve had this with sanders. The advice is to plug the tool into a separate socket on its own, not into an extension lead, and not into a multi-socket with other stuff plugged in. Belt sander is the worst, and the palm sander seems to do this as well. Don’t ask my why this happens, I have no idea, but the advice seems to be good, from my own experience.

That sleeve will wear through in no time. Ask me how I know this…

Quite a while due to weather and the big saw and angle grinder not liking getting wet.

It’s a major operation getting the big saw out and back…. and not remotely possible for me to drag 350kg inside but £65 is £65….

So, a lot of work for just £65. £65 may be a lot to you, and worth the effort. Whatever. But having cut up various materials with an angle grinder etc, I know that it makes a stupid amount of noise. So unless you live alone in the middle of nowhere, I’d hazard a guess your neighbours might not have been best pleased. We’ll overlook the various using a domestic property for ‘business’ purposes, and the no doubt myriad health and safety concerns. So you basically acted in your own interests, without consideration for others. Ok.

My understanding

In the quiet words of the Virgin Mary; come again?

Oh, things I spend less on:

Cars (pointless living in London; hire/use cabs if no other alternative is available)
Mortgage (own home outright, only insurance costs)
Mobile ‘phone contracts (£40 per month just to have the latest flash gadget?)
Subscription services (Just Netflix at the moment, and standard TV licence fee, fairly cheap broadband and no addo on sports/film packages or games console stuff).

The top two are probably the biggest costs on average that most people in the UK pay for on a monthly/regular basis. Not having such expenses, and ‘saving’ money on the last two, means a hell of a lot more disposable income than otherwise. I can understand the need for a mortgage, and a car if you really need one (I wonder how many people genuinely do), but I’m constantly hearing other people moaning about their ‘phone etc subscriptions, and then about not having enough money for stuff…

I once knew a bloke who, for over 30-40 years, had enjoyed free electricity via a spliced cable from the mains supply, which somehow went underneath his house. It was only discovered when he died. Know of other folk who’ve run cables off lampposts etc, but 30-40 years of free electricity? Get in mate. :D

Aside from the cultural ignorance:

I got £65 for 350kg of mild steel pre-cut as you get more if you go to them.
Took a while to cut it all small enough to go in buckets.

How long did you spend cutting it all up? And what sort of tools did you use? Did you do this outside?

Armrest

Brilliant. I think I’ll use that from now on. :D

Art, tools, photography and chocolate. Oh yes. No vegetable fat mass produced rubbish for me; it has to be hand made, proper cocoa, the finest ingredients and most likely £3 per small mouthful. You only live once; why waste it on mediocrity?

It would be a public service if those who accuse others of using “tropes” (whatever they are) could publish a thesaurus of approved substitutes for those common words that are now deemed off-limits.

I agree. As this thread alone has proved, the issue is now so toxic, many people are afraid of speaking out for fear of expulsion. Which was the aim all along, that’s clear. Cancel culture in action.

..of the labour right smearing most of the party as anti-semites and/or sixth form revolutionary extremists. They got what they wanted, which was a party in ruins and a fractured and demoralised activist base. They’ll never govern again, and don’t deserve to.

One has to ask what forces are behind this systematic undermining of the left; it’s clear it has nothing to do with anti-Semitism, as those who have shouted loudest about Corbyn and his supporters being ‘anti-Semitic’ have been strangely silent on the real and growing menace of far-right extremism, linked with anti-Semitism and Islamophobia, that has swept across Europe and infected British society. Statistics provided by those who do monitor hate crimes, have shown that it’s the far right that is the biggest threat to western society and democracy. and such hate crimes are on the increase. Leaders such as Victor Orban in Hungary, Erdogan in Turkey, and figures such as Italy’s Matteo Salvini, are only gaining in popularity, and we’ve seen how Golden Dawn briefly gained power in Greece. Right wing populism is now so endemic, it has become normalised in many countries including the UK. Switzerland, that great bastion of ‘neutralism’, has emerged as a deeply right wing nation, those sentiments stemming from Christian conservatism, a pattern that is repeated in many other countries and regions. Of course, divide and rule works very well for those with a vested interest in keeping society fragmented into small, relatively powerless groups. The bitterness between people on this thread alone, in a tiny corner of the internet, amongst people who once would be considered to be on the ‘same side’, shows just how much division has been sown. So of course, now is not the time to be divided, quite the opposite. But here we are. Arguing and bickering, throwing false accusations around to score petty points. It’s just utterly depressing.

100 miles down the road, where’s my sunglasses gone. Bye bye £100 Oakleys, idiot!

You got off lightly. I left a £400+ pair of prescription RX Oakleys (the only pair with a particular type of mirrored lens that Oakley had made; they didn’t come in a prescription version in that lens) in a van my mate had hired for a removal job. Assumed I’d just left them in his new place. Didn’t think to ask him until a few days later. Obviously the hire company knew nothing about them… :'(

I’ve read your explanation, which is based on a false premise. I realise that you prefer to double-down rather than accept you’re in the wrong, but it’s not very edifying.

Ok you’re just being deliberately offensive/or very very stupid, so I’m going to ignore you from now on. Because this is like trying to nail jelly to a wall. Quite why you think I should answer to you, or apologise for a fiction in your head, is just incredible. Wow.

Yes, you’ve made it clear that you will continue to use an anti-Semitic trope, after it’s been pointed out to you.

No, what I’ve done, is explain why you and others are wrong. That you cannot understand this, and wish to continue banging that same broken drum, is beyond me. Applying a modicum of thought would help here. I really wish you would, please.

In other news:

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/w/corbyn-joins-socialists-and-communists-condemning-neonazi-march-honouring

Haven’t seen any such condemnation by Starmer yet. Strange, because he claimed to be taking anti-Semitism seriously…

Well no, because you haven’t.

I’ve explained why I haven’t actually said anything ‘racist’ or ‘anti-Semitic’. Therefore I don’t actually need to stop saying anything. Quite simple really. If anyone can’t understand that, then that’s their problem and not mine. Thanks.

If I’d said something that was also said by racists, I’d stop saying it.

So would I. But there’s nothing at all ‘racist’ or ‘anti-Semitic’ about the word ‘puppeteer’. Racists don’t get exclusive use of language. To accuse me of ‘anti-Semitism’ without foundation, to deliberately take my comment out of context, and to continue to do so in spite of my reasonable explanation of what I meant, is just turning a mistake into offence. And to enquire as to the motives behind that offence, is perfectly reasonable.

My wife uses an Ortleib mini pannier, designed for the front but she only uses on the rear rack of her bike. It was a gift. It’s had dog’s abuse and is still going strong after many years. Still totally waterproof. I can’t find what exact model it is, as they seem to have changed a bit in design. But they seem to still do small panniers.

Apparently her friend bought a pair, and didn’t need two so gave her the spare.

Goodhews micro vulture

I laughed, until it made me realise how old I am. :'(