Binners. In the Rose and Crown, Ramsbottom. I’d bring a copy of the Guardian with me, so that I could be easily identified. ;)

But…. I’m also not convinced that Italians and Danes smugly condemning the awful English thugs is very helpful either. The far right seems to me to be on the rise everywhere, and until we tackle the kind of inequality and lack of social cohesion/sense of purpose many people feel, it’s going to get worse not better.

It doesn’t matter about the nationality of whoever is condemning the violence seen on Sunday night. If you’re against such behaviour, against racism, you condemn it wherever it exists. But the fact, that tjagain so perfectly demonstrates, is that people are too quick to condemn ‘others’, yet refuse/are unable to look within, at problems inside our own group/tribe. That violence happened in England, within our own society, and we need to look at it ourselves, and condemn it as a nation. End of. Whatabouttery is irrelevant here. It’s no good crying about problems elsewhere, when we can’t sort our own shit out.

The difference back then was that, as he used to put it: ‘no civilians are involved’. It was all organised in advance, with two rival firms meeting up at a pre-ordained venue, normally well away from the ground, to beat the living shit out of each other. All willing participants.

That was bollocks then, and it’s bollocks now. C-18 member, you say (you do mix with some lovely, people, I have to say)? So the footie hooliganism was separate to his neo-Nazi activities? Bollocks. Hooligans are hooligans; they just need an excuse. He’d have been as happy doing some ‘P***-bashing’ as he would have kicking a rival team’s supporter in the head. The links between football hooliganism and far-right activity have long been established, and known about. Many of the big football ‘firms’, such as West Ham’s ICF, Leeds United’s Service Crew, Chelsea’s Headhunters, Birmingham City’s Zulus, and other groups, had predominantly far-right wing memberships. Such groups have been effectively neutered, and ‘official’ memberships have collapsed, due to efforts to rid football of such hooligan tendencies, but the lust for violence is still strong in many followers. Many older hooligans were former members of aforementioned groups and others. Football, as already explained, simply offers a convenient vehicle for such hooliganism. But unless we, as a society, continue to address the issues that create such environments for the angry, frustrated inadequates, then it will never go away. And right now, we have a sitting government which is effectively condoning such behaviour. That is a huge obstacle that needs to be overcome. How we do that, is anyone’s guess. But right now, we need solidarity amongst all those who abhor such fascistic behaviour. Because without that, we’ll get nowhere.

Bridges – and you miss the point

No; you either just don’t understand it, or simply want to argue a stupid point. Fortunately, others do understand it. You just want it to be ‘football’, so that you can feel superior about the sport YOU choose to follow. ‘Oh look at me, I’m better than you’. Knock yourself out. I can’t be bothered.

What is it with people missing the point on here? No; you don’t see the level of ‘nastiness’ at other sports, because the numbers who follow other sports are far, far smaller than football. Go to India, where Cricket is the most popular sport, and you’ll find many incidences of (sometimes extreme) violence at matches. The number of actual ‘hooligans’ in football is relatively very small, but obviously the huge numbers who follow the game mean you’ll get larger numbers of thugs, than in other sports. It’s just simple maths. Those who want to have an excuse to gather together in gangs for violence, have a ready made vehicle in football. I’d be willing to bet there is more violence at American Football matches than in ‘Soccer’, in the USA. The sport itself isn’t the reason why there is violence. People are.

When 853 was introduced, over a quarter of a century ago, mountain bikes looked like the ones below. It’s only modern if you start the timeline with wrought iron.

And it still gets nowhere near Ti weight. You could if you ignored CEN get down to modern Ti bike weights, but then Ti could then probably lose a lb too if you ignored CEN.

There’s also an issue that you run up against a point with steel that lightweight isn’t stiff enough anymore. That’s why you don’t see 931/953 mountainbikes, and not actually all that many full 853 ones, you hit the point where you just need more material. Ti still has the advantage of being about half the density so fatter stiffer tubes don’t have the same drawbacks. At the extreme end you could build it with aluminium tubeset dimensions, and aluminium frame weights (their density is comparable), but the result would be about twice as strong as the skinnier steel equivelent.

853 is ‘newer’ than 531. You could ‘lose’ weight from a Titanium frame, sure, but then it won’t be at all stiff enough for actual use. Yes, you can make a Titanium frame as strong as a steel one for less weight, or stronger, for the same weight. But steel is still going to be much easier to work with; a backstreet welder can fix a broken steel frame perfectly adequately; finding a competent Titanium welder in say rural Mexico or Zambia, might be a little more difficult. And the main reason you don’t see 931/953/Stainless MTBs, certainly not from the ‘mainstream’ brands, is because the tubing is relatively expensive, and it is harder to do ‘right’ than ‘lower grade’ steels. So more to do with economies of scale than unsuitability; there are plenty of custom builders producing MTB frames using Stainless steel, they’ll just cost you getting towards Titanium prices.

https://www.saffronframeworks.com/build/joe-burts-29-er/

A very rough reckoning suggests a frame like that would cost around £4500-5000. That’s an awful lot for a steel frame; you can get Titanium custom frames made for less. But it can at least be fixed by a bloke in a railway arch…

I was thinking that too. Did they send a video of school shootings to their US colleagues, 9/11 to Muslim colleagues etc. Or is this an anti England thing?

Surely it’s about time we looked at how others perceive us, in order to gain a more objective perspective, instead of conveniently falling back on idealised images we have of ourselves? The fact is that we have a growing problem of anger, xenophobia and violence amongst let’s face it, white men, in the same way the USA has. Growing far-right wing sentiments, fuelled by the ‘divide et imperium’ policies engineered by the ruling elites. Where is the challenge to this behaviour? Our prime minister and government are actively encouraging such people with dog-whistle and even overt racism, there is the spectre of fascism looming over us more than at any other time since WW2, and a mainstream press controlled by those same elites who want us all to be at each others’ throats, fighting over scraps, docile and incapable of challenging the status quo. instead of just bleating ‘but what about x,y and z’, how about we look at ourselves for a change. Because this situation isn’t going to change until we do.

As for those insinuating that ‘football’ is the root cause; it’s just that football is far and away the most popular sport, in both participation and spectatorship, than any other. I’ve seen drunken racist rugby crowds at Richmond station, and in London, and even a mob of drunken cricket fans at St.Johns Wood station, so that same alchohol-fuelled jingoistic belligerence isn’t exclusive to one sport. I’m sure if table tennis or synchronised swimming were as popular as football is, you’d still get the same kind of trouble makers attending major events. Tribalism just needs an excuse, any will do.

I’d say exactly the opposite – this isn’t America FFS.

Maybe not, but going by the record of the Met police in particular, I’d rather not take the chance. I suppose if you’re not Black, you might be ok.

Its a shame the police weren’t able to surround the building and pull them out one by one for some hard judicial action. That’s always been a hope of mine when i see this level of violence, but they act such and seem to always get away with it. The perpetrators are there and easy to spot.

Well, the perps weren’t women attending a vigil, so that’s absolutely fine.

almost certainly illegal

This is the bit you should be most concerned with. The law states that you can carry all manner of potentially very dangerous objects, but you do need to have a very good explanation for carrying them in public places. Some good info here:

https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

I’d hazard a guess that carrying a machete to hack undergrowth on land that isn’t yours, might be frowned upon by quite a few magistrates. Imagine a dog-walker spotting you, getting scared that there’s a ‘nutter with a machete’ loose, and before you know it, red laser dot on your head, bang. How will you get your bike home if you’ve been shot? The police firearms units aren’t known for their thoughtfulness or consideration.

Alternative is a smaller, less effective but not so mental looking folding gardening type tool. I’ve taken such to clear the odd bramble overgrowth from bits of trail. Just be careful nobody spots you.

The problem with Titanium, is that aside from the expense, it’s very hard to work with and requires very clean working conditions. It’s popular for bicycle frames, because it’s seen as ‘exotic’, mainly due to the expense. Yes, a Titanium frame can be made lighter than a steel one, and retain similar strength, but it may also be less stiff (that may be a desirable characteristic). It’s real advantages are in its corrosion resistance, and its high fatigue strength; it can bend and bend and not break, unlike Aluminium which weakens when it’s bent. So, very good for springs/applications where springiness is a favourable characteristic. But the problematic nature of working with it, means that it’s very difficult to keep costs down, so either the cost of a frame will be relatively very high, or corners will be cut. The latter option is increasingly popular amongst brands who offer ‘cheap’ Titanium frames. This is why you will see quite a few accounts of Titanium frames breaking; they haven’t been made properly. At the finish, steel is still the better material for making a strong bicycle frame. Newer alloys such as 853 can be made into frames approaching similar weights to Titanium (although CEN testing won’t pass those, as the tests are inappropriate for bicycle frames), and 931 stainless tubing offers the same corrosion resistant properties as Titanium. As for the fabled ‘ride’ of Titanium frames; I suspect that someone who has paid a lot of money for a bicycle frame might just have at least a subconscious disposition to ‘feel’ a difference. Things like tyres, tyre pressures, grips, saddles etc would have a far greater effect on the actual ‘feel’ of a bike. And if it is flexing to the point you can feel it, then it may be more comfortable, but with that lower stiffness comes lower mechanical efficiency; you’re losing power as energy is lost in that flexing.

I’d still love a Titanium framed bike though.

And someone’ll be along in a minute to say Apple.

Hiya!

Asking ‘is there an alternative to an iPad is a bit like asking ‘is there an alternative to meat?’. The answer is no. Simply because the ‘alternatives’ are never anywhere near as good, and will only disappoint. ‘Vegan bacon’ Lol! :D

Get another iPad.

I watched it. I’ve never read any of Terry Pratchett’s books. I enjoyed it. For those moaning about how it’s not ‘faithful’ to the books etc; don’t ever watch a James Bond film. Your heads will explode.

So, copying others’ policies yet again. Yay. Go Starmer.

Meanwhile, football players appear to be posing a better opposition to the government, than the actual Leader of the Opposition. One thing I’ve seen that came from the Corbyn era, is that people in fields such as sports and entertainment, fields where political sentiments were usually kept very much under wraps, have been a lot more vocal about their criticism of the state this nation is currently in, and openly critical of the government and politicians. From Stormzy’s ‘**** the government and **** Boris’ at Glasto, to Marcus Rashford’s call for money for school meals for deprived kids, to Gary Neville’s comments about Gareth Southgate being ‘everything a leader should be; respectful, humble, tells the truth, genuine’, it does seem that a lot more younger people are becoming politicised, which is vital is it’s their future. Corbyn had that ability to connect with millions of younger people, and for Labour to move forwards, they have to capitalise on that. Constantly whining on about Corbyn, whilst quietly adopting the exact same policies he laid out, is just utter hypocrisy of the highest order, and Starmer’s been found out; he’s really nowhere near as popular with younger people as Corbyn was, and never will be popular with the majority of the electorate. It’s sad that politics has become reduced to personality contests, but this is where we are. You’d have thought Starmer would have organised a slick media team by now, to capitalise on what Corbyn started, and continue with encouraging grass roots politics, and for ‘ordinary’ people to have a voice. But no. Nothing more than ‘ooh Boris you’re so mean’, then agreeing with the government, and mumbling something about football. Flapping around like Jordan Pickford dealing with a loose ball. Oh, it’s in the back of the net already, Keir.

It’s not absolute performance that’s good – it’s performance vs power. They are fast but they are still only laptops, nothing to get that excited about in performance terms.

But so far, the M1 Macs are outperforming their Intel Mac equivalents, by some margin, in all respects, and it’s only the higher end (and much more expensive) models that are better in any way. But the M1 models so far are aimed more at the ‘consumer’ end of the market; pro machines will no doubt be even better.

a

p…

With Keir’s crumbling support, we need a Lincoln or a Garibaldi!

See? This is what I love.

You can have a biscuit too Binners.

Rod Liddle; biscuit crumbs on his clothes

Stunnin’ like a young Burt Reynolds.

:D Raymond the Bastard, I presume?

I NEED that fractal vice. It’s the vice I’ve always needed, yet never knew existed.

The gobshite is Binners now?, when did it transfer from you?

Very good! Give yourself a biscuit.

**** me, what a couple of fun sponges.

Lol! That’s so good, it’s almost art.

Juno I’ve had one of those SKS bottle holders for years, I occasionally use it for long rides such as Brighton and back, it is an exceptionally clever bit of kit. It is incredibly easy to put on and despite giving the opposite impression it remains securely fixed with a vice-like grip. Highly recommended.

Shame the same can’t be said about Keir Starmer.

:D Lol!

I’ve got SKS mudguards on my bike. They’ve performed near-faultlessly for many years, quietly and effectively doing their job without issue.

Shame the same can’t be said about Keir Starmer.

As a casual thread observer it seems to have turned into the “have a go at Binners” thread.

Quite frankly, this thread is pretty boring. But Binners needs to make it all about him, so we’re only too happy to oblige because that’s far more entertaining. But having thought about it a bit; for all the naive, ignorant, woefully ill-considered rubbish he’s posted, and the torrent of abuse he’s hurled at anyone who sees things just a bit differently, for all the utter hypocrisy, I’m actually left wondering if this isn’t really a way of presenting such ideas and sentiments, in order that they can be challenged and exposed for what they are. You know, how you’d perhaps get some rabid anti-migrant gammon frother on a debate programme, in order that other, more intelligent, knowledgeable and thoughtful people can expose their crap arguments and show everyone else what utter nonsense it really is. Perhaps Binners is channeling the spirit of Lawrence Fox, to present a piñata for others to smack down. Because that would be very, very clever. Perhaps Binners should be celebrated for his contribution to this thread, rather than simply seen as the pub gobshite.

Lol! There is actually a pub called the Rose and Crown, in a place called Ramsbottom, so that bit we know is true. The rest of it? Who knows. Are they playing the football match tonight? Again, who knows. Can anyone shed any light on that matter?

So when you say ‘united’ you actually mean blah blah blah blah blah…

Rod Liddle; spilled his dinner down his shirt…

Does the Rose and Crown have the football match on tonight?

That centre panel is clearly supposed to give off military aircraft vibes…Christ that’s so blatant, it’s pathetic. A pretend airplane for fat business cows and golfists to pretend to be fighter pilots so they can get a hard on for a **** car.

Spot on, actually. That really is what it is. An affirmation-mobile for insecurity and inadequacy. Unsurprising then, that it’ll appeal to quite a few on this forum then…

Toot! If you’re Gammon

Tory rule, for the rest of our lives, nailed on.

Which is what we ended up with under Blair, and what you’ll get if Labour continue in their current format anyway. What is it about that, that’s so hard for you to understand?

Do you want to see societal change, or not?

It was a joke.

Ah, right. Don’t give up the day job, eh? ;)

Who do you think can unite the party?

Labour cannot be anywhere near ‘united’ unless the right wing neoliberal elite are removed from the party. Because as it is, you cannot have right-wing neoliberal ideals anywhere near anything truly progressive. The right wingers can go off and join the Funny Tingers, and leave the Labour party to those who do actually want to see societal change. That would be enormously helpful.

Yes, seems a good option for students etc. They don’t do the custom spec options though. And you do need a recognised education email account; Apple will give a discount to anyone who’s ever been to school, it seems. :D

If you know a student then Apple

Seriously; who actually pays full price for Apple computers? I don’t know anyone who does, and that’s quite a lot of people. All of whom have drunk the Kool Aid and had their pants pulled down, of course. ;)

Edustore does look good, but how do they get around Apple’s strict price controls? I’m always wary of deals that appear a bit too good to be true. I’m happy to buy from Apple directly, as having to get after sales support is much easier, but Edustore looks good for those in education who want to save money. But how does it work with warranty claims, etc?

Well it’s more interesting than speaker cable.

It’s actually not, depressingly.

Most people admit Corbyn was a crap leader

Blair was a crap leader because he brought about the death of the traditional Labour party, lied to everyone and helped create an illegal war which resulted in genocide
Brown was crap leader because he sold all the gold, and he helped Blair
Milliband was a crap leader because he was… Milliband

And that’s before we get started on the likes of Kinnock, Foot etc.

Starmer is crap because…?

Is the answer Len McCluskey?

No, it’s not. Funny that, eh?

There’s none so blind, as those who cannot see. Keep those blinkers on, because the reality may scare you too much.

You defeated yourselves, you chose Corbyn as leader for a start. The reality…I know, its not something a lot of you are in touch with currently,

What happened to ‘us’?

Divide et impera…

I’d only ever consider JL as an alternative to Apple themselves, if buying Apple products. I’d never buy anything like that from PC World. It’s called ‘PC World’ for good reason…

The 16GB versions are special order items, so perhaps JL etc only have the standard off the peg versions of products.

a smooth sheath for my ribbed hose

Knyuck knyuck! Chelp!

Why bother?

You evil, evil bastard.

“It’s the other faction that won’t unite, not the one that more closely aligns to my own views” – around and around and around. Tory rule for the rest of our lives. Nailed on.

Which faction has the wealth and power?

You are aware that blah blah blah blah blah…

Rod Liddle; little bit of food on his jacket…

after the total denial by the left over their part in the 2019 election defeat, which continues through their actions to this day, they will continue to ignore that as well.

What about the total denial by the right over their part in the 2019 election defeat, which was far, far more significant than whatever nonsense you’re citing, as it was actually real, and deliberately designed to ensure Corbyn lost, and the continued demonisation of the ‘left’, as exemplified by yourself, which continues to this day?

What about that?

Aaaaaaand…. we’re back onto banging on about my local pub yet again, for some utterly inexplicable reason.

Rod Liddle, bit of food on his tie…