And why would that be Druidh? Have you spoken to them all to see what they believe and why? Impressed if you have.

Quite entertaining thread. Most people seem happy to accept that not all riders are the same (different styles, different preferences, different bikes etc etc) and that's fine. As soon as something vaguely about religion pops up suddenly all the people who have a faith (whatever it may be) are all nutters. As if all faiths are the same. As if all people who share the same faith are the same or even believe the same. Complicated matters but all nicely wrapped up in paper and a shiny bow, just in time for christmas by druidhs "they're all nuts".

Proper scientific that is. :-)

Loads of great songs on here. I would also add a couple that spring to mind:

Pink Floyd – coming back to life
Slightly left field but Wuthering Heights by Kate Bush – I love Andy Fairweather Lowe's guitar solo at the end. Simple, melodic, understated but gorgeous.

The 807 really is just a big French van. Utterly hideous to look at and drive. But that's just my opinion. As an earlier poster mentioned above the SMax is not a bad option to look at. Drives very much more like a car than a truck, acres of space and not massively expensive. Servicing and parts will be cheaper than the Volvo (even though technically they are the same comnpany these days).

Or a Merlin Malt 4. Lovely light frame and generally pretty well spec'ed for the money. Limited options to test one out but they are cracking bikes.

Carter Beauford while not being a full on pie man is definitely on the chunky end of the scale. For some reason a lot of the gospel / RnB / soul style drummers verge on the scale tippers side than weight weenie.

My son has a standard Malt 4 but I don't have any pics of it to hand. All in all it's a cracking little bike and I'm often tempted to ride it when pootling around locally.

I guess some jobs are lowly inasmuhc as you don't need a grat (in some cases any) education to do them and for peopl who have a good education and skills it would be seen as a waste of their talents and potential. But fair play to those who do them.

Worst job I ever had (and I had a few bad / dull / mind numbing ones) was packing a foam crusher. Foam cutoffs (from sofa cushions) were discarded and compacted in a metal framed compacter. Hmmm. Static electricity and a metal compacter are not a good combination which results in a shock (varying from mild to **** did a bomb just go off on my arm!) every time you empty the compacter. I lasted 3 days there before finding another temp job. Pervious guy lasted until tea break on his first day.

MaccyD's do change the flavours for the different countries. Apparently they do the same with the chicken nuggets (I was once on a course with a fella that worked at the place that provided some 90% of the nuggets to MaccyDs across Europe).

As for the chap holding the board – good luck to the guy. I would be bored rigid doing it but for him it's obviously a way to get a few extra sheckels. Whether it is declared income or not is a different matter. :-)

It might only be a bike but it is the principle of the thing isn't it? So you chaps are quite happy to lend your bikes out and feel quite fine about it coming back in a worse state than it went out?

Can I borrow one of your bikes then for my next filthy ride please? :-)

Hmmmm, kind of gross overreactions from people here over someone who quite clearly is not evil. While not a card carrying Maggie fan I don't subscribe to the view that she was evil and with my memories of the times this country was in a right state, mostly down to the incompetent labour government and the power crazy unions who seemed to have forgotten that their founding role was to protect and support their members and not to hold businesses to ransom. Sure, the greed cycle that emerged during the 90's was not edifying or good in any way there are still a number of fundamental changes that were made during those tory years that changed this country for the good. But how much of that is down to the government and how much is down to individual people and their choices? I also think you will find that the tories were NOT happy to let interest rates go up to 15% but had to do it to keep our compliance with the ERM. They had the courage at the time to come out of it – something labour would have been happy to carry on supporting as they want us to be a full part of Europe. You can't have it all. :-)

Funny how people like to impose their views on others about how to live without necessarily knowing the full circumstances. Just an observation like. 8)

Going back to the OP though, when my kids were younger I would have assumed that 8pm for dinner would be a no kids one. If I wasn't sure I would have phoned to check. Not sure what all the whinging about costs and arrangements is all about as you have a simple choice about whetehr you want to go out or not. I'm sure many of you don't find it such a hassle when you are wanting to go out for a ride or whatever. And how many of you who would bring your kids along to everything have both of you working during the day?

We have been pretty fortunate as my parents don't live all that far away and with them and some other friends the babysitter duties were mostly free.

I guess people are different and some like to be with their kids all the time and others like to have a break.

Must say that while I have no time for the man and feel that he has been a complete liability and disaster as both Chancellor and PM the whole story is one big over reaction. As has been said by many. I can understand the mother being a bit upset by it but the way it has gone on seems so typical of our current culture and climate. Give it another day or so and I wouldn't be surprised if we start hearing her or the Sun campaigning for some monetary compensation for her grief and distress over the letter.

Of course you will – it's an income tax. The way tax works is based on your overall income. If you are worried that the bonus will take you into the higher tax bracket then it's only incme above the threshold that is taxed at the higher rate. So a bonus is just treated as normal income for you and will be taxed (income and NI) accordingly.

Had a Vailant EcoTec for the past 5 years – faultless and efficient and not very expensive. Potterton are a pretty well known name. My parents have had one for years and that has been pretty much ok but I don't know how much they are or what their current models look like.

I had never heard of Vailant before we had it fitted but the plumber was adamant that they were solid boilers.

And if you are using the Halfords scheme be aware that you do not have to stick to just the bikes that they have in their "show rooms". The Halfords scheme allows you to get pretty much any bike so you could widen your search net a bit further than Carrera and GT.

Interesting debate with some of the usual amusing banter along the way. It does seem funny that we are raising the issue of rotundness and people being mocked at a time when a far greater percentage of the population are overweight. When I was a kid the larger people were quite a rarity and were mercilessly mocked at times. Not right although sometimes amusing at the time.

I don't think any of us really would condone attacking or blatantly ridculing people who are different to us but that doesn't stop us finding some things amusing, or sad, or somehow pathetic. How many of us laugh when we see someone come flying off their bike? Natural first response seems to be a laugh, chortle or full on belly wobbler before that concern about their wellbeing kicks in. Seems to be (predominantly male) human behaviour.

Leaving that aside for the moment though a number of the issues or complains that people suffer from are largely down to their personal choices. We have developed a society where soemone else or something else is to blame. If you have panic attacks or paranoia because you ingested too many narcotics whose fault is it? And at what point do you think it is fair for the public to bail you out and support your medical care? For those who are, shall we say, on the generous side of the ideal weight line it really is down to eating more than you are burning through general living and exercise. And being overweight is not good for you health wise. This is not complex or intellectual stuff we are grappling with here. And for many people it is down to their free choice. Nobody is making them eat all those pies and chips. Take some personal responsibility and stop looking for excuses or people to blame! And for the record, yes, I am slightly stout so I am not being an indignant stick insect. I know that I each a bit too much, and sometimes the wrong foods, but I know who puts it in my mouth and there is no one else to blame but me. :-)

While I am happy to accept that people are free to choose how they look I still cannot for the life of me understand how anyone can think that facial metalwork and piercings are in any way attractive. Not sure it's just an age thing either.. :?

I'll be busy polishing my breadbin…

Is that a new euphemism? 8O

No brainer really. Windows 7 all the way. :lol:

Shockwave. :?
Orange – pretentious overpriced tosh. Oh, hang on, doesn't that apply to most of the "niche" brands?

[Edit] Doh, misread the title. I wouldn't think once about buying any of these and would never consider buying. Maybe we need to start a separate thread?]

Do you reckon lester is a writer for the Guardian? [Picking up on other surreal thread]

No refuelling is a bit of a nonsense if you ask me other than we could get the situation that we had last time they did this and cars running out of fuel on the last lap. Funny to watch but frustrating for the drivers. I don't think it is good for racing personally.

Truth is I don't think anyone can predict exactly what the housing market is going to do other than, in the long term, it will probably rise. Yes we have seen prices rising recently but that could also be accounted for by the fact trhat we are almost in equilibrium between buyers and sellers. The quantity of housing being sold and bought is still, from what I understand, considerably down on "normal" levels. With the economic uncertainty (I don't believe we are coming out of the downturn yet) and the potential for more job cuts particularly in the public sector over the next year or two it is more than likely that the house prices will dip, drop or crash. You can never really predict what extra costs you will need when you buy a house either as sometimes things just happen. You have to know your budget, what you need to pay for, decide whether you want those luxuries you may have had up until now (Sky for example) and what else may change in the future (eg babies). Interest rates will rise at some point but quite possibly not for a couple of years but it is something that needs to be factored in to your budgeting. We have been on a fixed mortgage of one sort or another for our entire mortgage history. Yes, it has not been the cheapest option for us at a number of points but I did have security in knowing exactly what the biggest mnonthly outgoing was. That's how I manage. Others do differently and find it works for them. When looking at your costs I would also remember to factor in montly saving for other bills that crop up such as car servicing, boiler servicing, water rates etc.

Sadly I don't think I will be able to make this ride either – but well done for organising another one.

I think I will trundle around there tomorrow as compensation. :-) Anyone else planning to be riding in Swinley tomorrow (probably 11 – whenever)?

It's about your choice. Personally I wouldn't go back to XP now I am running Windows 7. I hated Vista. The reality is that Vista was a bit of a cock up and Windows 7 is largely what Vista should have been but with a couple of new features and better memory mangement. I actually rather like it. :-)

A different view but she's still not smiling is she :-)

As has been mentioned before it comes down to a matter of personal preference and how much you want to spend. PCs do seem to have a habit of slowing down over time which is something that doesn't appear to affect Macs. PCs have more software available to them. I would also say that it is worth waiting for Windows 7 as it really is a step up on the previous offerings from MS. Braodly speaking Vista was rubbish although there are plenty of people who had a good experience with it.

Also be very wary of the Macs are secure myth. They are not. They are woefully insecure. They give the appearance of being more secure because until now they have been a small niche player in the corporate world – for a long time they were about 5% of personal computer sales. Also tended to be the preserve of the graphic designer / arty farty crowd. Consequently there was no interest from the naughty boys out there when much of the world was running Windows. So Windows was the big target. MS took major steps around 2002 to significantly revise the way their software was written to address security. Windows now is an incredibly secure platform by default for which you will still need to consider anti virus and anti malware software to enhance the protection you need from life on the Internet. Apple by contrast has never really done much about security – never really had to . However, as their market share has been rising and more people are using them the naughty boys are starting to look at them. Apple are starting to look at security in their code and protecting the user but it is all a looooong way behind where Windows is. Macs are not secure and Apple has a lot of work to do over the next few years. They have been lucky to get away with it so far and may yet still get away with it. But don't be fooled into thinking that they are secure / more secure than PCs. They are not. One example: The recent Black Hat conference had a session where someone demonstrated 15 hacks for Macs in 15 minutes. All of them serious.

Happy choosing. :-)

Personally I think you have higher priority Go Dos that impact your score card metrics that should be addressed before spanking outage. :-)

This will be another of those arguments where people with their own views will not be swayed by others viewpoints… :-)

FWIW I think Brown has been the biggest disaster of a chancellor this country has ever had. History I suspect will show it at some point. Ultimately as Chancellor he inherited the improving economy in 1997 and the economic policies and management of the outgoing Tories. And then claimed the credit for it. As has been mentioned before he managed to then take a well balanced economy (one where we had managed to settle a significant number of our debts) and plunge it back into debt. But this time the debt is on a scale we have never seen before and has the audacity to call it prudent and decisive action. The man is deluded.

On Tory plans for the future, I would expect them to be quite vague and un focussed at the moment as there is nothing at stake right now. Why give detailed plans for what you are going to do when that gives Gordy time to assimilate them and call them his own. It will be a dreadful day if Labour win the next election as I can only see us heading for further economic misery. The other issue the Tories (and other parties for that matter) face is that they have no clear idea of the actual state of our economy – and won't do until they become the government. How can you make promises or plans when you don't know exactly what's in the bank?

Can't see the LibDems making much progress either – certainly not with plans that they have announced such as the really smart and fair idea to tax people who happen to live in big houses. Smacks of a jealousy tax and going for the easy target.

Oh well…..

Thanks chaps. Been a few times and like it but have not done the two trails together. Looks like I may be riding alone…

That's where all this nanny state / health and safety thinking has got us! :-)

Get out and enjoy it – make the most of life and the opportunities you have. I'm sure they would far rather a fit and active man than a couch potato with grumpy attitude coz he can't get out and do what he wants to. Age is not a barrier – it just forces you to slow down a bit.

I have found as I have got older that I am just a bit more aware of the potential for what could go wrong and think, albeit briefly, that something could indeed go wrong. When I was younger the thought just didn't enter into my head. :-)

Not sure I understand what I need to be rethinking. Calling people stupid is not a rational argument. And neither is just saying "no it isn't" – to quote a well known sketch about arguments. And I'm also not quite sure where your black magic comment comes into the mix. Maybe a different conversation? I don't recall writing anything about black magic or barbaric rituals.

Doesn't really float my boat so to speak.

Been scanning this one periodically and I think for those who are protecting that it has not been rude or insensitive are being a tad disingenuous. For those that have a faith, of whatever variety, it is a personal thing. Many of those who do have a faith have had experiences that are not easily explained and would appear to fit with their beliefs. For example, it is not unusual these days in Africa to hear of people being raised from the dead after apparently days of being "dead like". I'm sure there will be sceptics who won't believe or will find some scientific explanation. Maybe there is. Maybe there isn't. But to start calling people stupid, impressionable, brainless is not really a very rational argument is it? Maybe it is something that you cannot suscribe to but does that give you permission to disrespect someone else? As someone else suggested, perhaps you are not so very sure of your own beliefs or yet found a way to deal with your anger issues. Or perhaps, discovering that maybe when left to our own devices society struggles to develop a set of principles to live by that help us to understand what is an acceptable way to behave with other people, what constitutes respect and tolerance. If we summed up the STW collective vision of values from the past few weeks it would include:

Nutting someone
Weeing in shoes because someone did something you don't like
Accusing people of believing in fairy tales because they believe something that doesn't fit with your personal agenda or beliefs
It's ok to keep something that has been sent to you in error (aka stealing)
etc

Ok, so some of it is a bit tongue in cheek, but not exactly inspiring stuff is it?

And then, back to the OP. Sure, why not give it a go. What's the worst thing that will happen? You lose an evening a week for a few weeks. In return you get a free meal and a chance to ask interesting questions and see what sort of answers you get. Is the Alpha course a vehicle for converting people? In a way, yes it is, of course it is. But the goal of the Alpha course is to give people an open forum to discuss the issues that crop up in life and to see what Christianity has to say about it. If you don't think you are interested in that then don't go. Just like the TV. If there's something on you don't like then switch channels or switch off. Not exactly difficult is it?

Anyway, I have fed the troll for now. ;-)

is there a place of worship/belonging for stoic hedonsists?

Isn't that Ibiza?

WOuld really like to get a new bike for my daughter. I have a spare Malt 4 frame but looking at the cost of parts beginiing to think it might still be cheaper to buy a whole bike and be done with it! Still looking out for those bargaintastic deals……

Vectra owner here. The estate is really just a cavernous barge. At the time we bought I was interested in an S-Max and the (currently) new shape Mondeo. Couldn’t get as much of a discount off them so went with the Vectra. As others have said, it’s not a bad car. It drives reasonably well, cruises well on the motorway and I generally find it quite comfortable. I could never undertsand what all the fuss was over the last shape Mondeo as I drove a couple and they were, underwhelming. I preferred the Vectra. The new shape Mondeo though is something quite different and looks and drives very nicely. Bodywork still feels a bit thin and cheap to me compared to the Vectra but it is a nicer car to drive. Personally I think in the 04-06 date range the Vectra is the better car.

Drive them both and see which one you prefer. :-)

The money has been spent by the banks, wakey wakey. Bank bailout?

So we’ve been bailing the banks out for the past 11 years have we? Saving for a rainy day is not restricted solely to household expenditure. I think you will find it applies everywhere including business and government. I am perfectly awake thank you. We were in deep doodoo before we started bailing the banks out and it is a little disappointing to think that after an unprecented period of economic growth (isn’t that how GB defines it?) we are in debt as a nation.

Anyway, that aside, I see there is no rush to point out what GB has done well.

I have nothing positive to say about Brown – unfortunately. :roll:

And I don’t really know much about running an economy (I’m not an economist and I do not claim to be) but one thing I would have done is made sure I spend less than I earn. It’s really not that hard a concept to grasp, No, really it isn’t.

Camelback Mule for me – had it a few years now and love it. Plenty of water (3L) and a reasonable amount of storage. Not the biggest storage space but works well for me both running and cycling.