Correct me if that’s not what you meant.

Gladly.

Firstly, I don’t beleive I’ve ever been rude directly to anyone one on this thread, and indirectly no more so than me being consigned to eternal damnation, so a neutral transaction IMHO.
Secondly, I’ve made my point very clear several times, if you are a member of an organsiation and don’t at least speak up agaisnt its clear and frequent excesses you then condone it, so to that extent, Yes you are tarred with the same brush.

Let’s look at this again.

Well yes lets. Not in any way decrying the principles, a point I’ve also made clear previously elsewhere. I am however decrying the fact that as stated above by condoning you are complicit.

Finally, I am not now and never have denied anyones right to hold their own beliefs, opinions and views. What I have said however, is if you put them in the public domain thats your call, but you can hardly complain when by doing so the very obvious flaws in what you beleive are pointed out to you. As religion is unfortunately thrust down everyones necks in this country, I’m sorry if you don’t like it, but in my book thats open season.

Going home now, may your God go with you, meanwhile I’ll remain spiritually destitute.

Seriously weak arguing

I think thats the basis of my case, and I agree that yours is seriously weak.

Simply put for you. If you actively support an organisation so seriously and obviously riven with corruption as the Catholic Church, then you condone what they do and you are part of it.

Regarding pontification: My life has been totally shaped and dictated by religion and it is very much against my will. School, Government, State, you name it. I could stomach it were it not for the blatant hypocracy. If you can’t see that then frankly you are simply confirming the self delusionary and self propagating aspect of religion.

You do realise that there are as many if not moremost nonces, thieves, murderers (and other emotive terms of your choice) who are operating under no influence of religion at all don’t you?don’t either pontificate at me or belong to an organsiation that does.

TFTFY

Can’t really understand why the concept is so hard to grasp to be fair. Its the pontificating whilst also being an arse that is the irritant, not merely being an arse of itself. Worse still, its those who are remaining silent while its going on. To be honest I find it unbelievably difficult to stomach the hypocracy of the vast majority of religionists, in this context. Think about it: Politician, Football Manager, CEO, you name it if you were in charge whilst there was wholesale abuse of privilige going on during your watch and you’d be gone……. Compare that to the Pope/Cardinals/Arch Bishops/Mullahs etc etc etc

{EDIT:} do none of you lot who are religionists actually read your own PR? Jesus turning over money lenders tables, treating the lowly and sick with respect for example, or is it a case of suffer the little children unto me, having a different meaning to the one I understood??

If THAT is the excuse you use for having a go at any christian who happens to be reading STW

I refer you to my previous post..

Berm Bandit – Member

At the end of it all my beliefs have no impact on anyone, live and let live etc.

…and thereby hangs the tail! The truth is that if none of the nonces thieves, murderers or adulterers operating under the auspices of religion chose to ponitificate about their faith, I very much doubt whether anyone much would comment on religion here or elsewhere. The problem is that they cannot just be content with finding the Lord, they have to bore the rest of us with their issues.

So for the record, my personal beliefs are my business and no one elses. If I choose to share them, and those I share them with wish to comment then thats fair enough by me, because I’ve opened that door. Trouble is the religionists can’t quite get that point.

I think you will find the majority of noise on this subject is one directional. I know of few if any non religious folk who spend much time on the religious. The religious however, seem to make it a priority the other way around. Therefore it should hardly be surprising when confronted with damning evidence of hypocracy that a few point a finger and say things along the lines of “but you’re not wearing any clothes”. Hoisted on your own petard seems to cover it.

At the end of it all my beliefs have no impact on anyone, live and let live etc.

…and thereby hangs the tail! The truth is that if none of the nonces thieves, murderers or adulterers operating under the auspices of religion chose to ponitificate about their faith, I very much doubt whether anyone much would comment on religion here or elsewhere. The problem is that they cannot just be content with finding the Lord, they have to bore the rest of us with their issues.

So for the record, my personal beliefs are my business and no one elses. If I choose to share them, and those I share them with wish to comment then thats fair enough by me, because I’ve opened that door. Trouble is the religionists can’t quite get that point.

I am arguing against poor thinking.

So are we strangely enough

(Edit: We being the non religious)

Not using lame “Clarksonisms” such as “Religionists” would be a good starting point

Actually I chose the word carefully, as I wanted to avoid reference to any one particular religion. In my book they are all as bad as each other, and there is little to chose between them. I started off with believers, but in context I felt it would be taken as a Christian reference, thus the offensive Clarksonism.

Yes, but the religious people aren’t popping up on here saying ‘atheists, what a bunch of ignorant cretins’ every two weeks, are they? They are also not the ones getting entrenched in these stupid arguments.

I suspect the frequency of appalling and hypocritical behaviour on the part of the “religionsists” of the world may have more influence on the frequency of said threads than the fact that people who post may or may not be athesists. Its a bit like seeing a comet ala Chelyabinsk recently, you can argue that people should simply ignore it, but the reality is that its going to provoke a reaction, and perhaps some pointing and staring.

Just moving on one step, tell me more about these stupid arguments by atheists…….

Most Christians I know would just like the chance not to be considered stupid or ignorant by people who’ve never met or spoken to them, based on things they don’t understand.

Similarly it would be fair to paraphrase that with ….

Most non religionsists I know would just like the chance not to be considered stupid or ignorant by people who’ve never met or spoken to them, based on things they don’t understand.

That point cuts both ways. However, I think the difference being that I can’t immediately think of any non religionsists who have made up a pseudo intellectual argument to oppress the Believers. Seems to me that behaving appalling badly goes hand in glove with pontificating about religion….any religion.

LOL @ Dorest Knob’s rose tinted specs.

I’m not going to bother with a long counter post, but suffice to say you may have overlooked a similarly long list of responsbilities which might include the genocide of the indigenous populations of North and South America, Africa and parts of Asia. Its also entirely possible that more than one of the things you have listed are due to a need originally created by the activities of the church.

Its just not that simple I’m afraid.

Incidentally late filing of a tax return does actually mean that its been a year after you could theoretically first do it. Its not like its pressurised or anything.

My older brother had a severe nervous breakdown a few years back. When we got involved, it transpired that this was the end of a long slow gradual slide over a period of 5 years. In the context of this thread he’d lost the plot in his business, and not kept records or completed any form of tax return or replied to any communication during that time, in fact we found about 2 years worth of unopened mail behind his front door. Bailiffs had been in, and all sorts of bad was going on.

I contacted HMRC, and worked with them over it. I basically did an incomplete records process on his books and constructed the best accounts I could and really made a great deal of effort to resolve things. HMRC after an initial resistance were actually really helpful and courteous from about the time that they realised that I was genuinely trying to sort it out. Ultimately, all previous debts were written off leaving big bruv in the clear. They did not have to do this.

However, and its a biggy, this was as a result of really genuinely trying to deal with his responsibilities, it did not come about from ignoring the problem, them, or by being difficult.

As it happens I worked in a Tax Office for a short period about 40 years ago. What I learnt from that experience is that they do an incredibly difficult job in incredibly difficult circumstances. They have a number of techniques. Very often they will be dealing with people who for whatever reason have not kept proper records or fulfilled their responsibilities regarding tax. The standard way of addressing that is they will do the best calculation they can from previous history or incomplete records, and then dependant on the circumstances they will then present a demand for several times that calculation. Basically that puts the onus back on the punter to prove the estimate wrong……and if you can’t then its right!! Strangely enough 99% of the time the correct information magically appears.

My best advice is to follow the same path I did, good communication and genuine efforts to resolve will go a long way. They also are human and are more understanding than many give them credit for. Good luck.

Sitting in my office (outskirts of said town), we’ve had a thorough examination of the possibilities for you, and the considered opinion is would recommend you went somewhere else.

Annular Ring Nail

I think you will find the full testosterone dripping man title for that wee fella is an Annular Ring Shank.

Damn… I feel manly after that!

Edit: In fact thinking about it that takes me straight to NAILS (as in hard as)

You old cynic …….

Reminds me of a debate I partook of once, the premise being that we are all motivated by selfishness. All went well until one individual launched into a tirade about how he ran a youth club and didn’t do it for any reward. The punch line being I do it because I enjoy it ….. it ended not long after as the rest of us were hopelessly rolling in the aisles

think we should abandon it because its I Berm Bandit think it is patently absurd

Just for the record thats not what I said.

Aristotle: there you go, thats where the whole religion business is a problem for me, however that is not to say that the basic tennents are wrong, but overall I reckon about the time that you start pontificating to other people about how what you beleive is the one true way etc etc that then also coincides with the appropriate time for bringing out the ducking stool and stocks.

Actually, thinking about it that also holds true for politicians too.

I find Christianity helps to relieve.

You see thats where I diverge from your view. Christianity, as in the organised structure of religion leaves me cold. Pretty much the same with all other religions too. However, that is not to say that I reject the morality of religion at large, in fact if anything the reverse is true. I cannot accept the “Church” because of my broadly Christian beliefs. Not least being that which tells me that just because it is difficult to stand up and denounce something which is self evidently wrong, it does not excuse me if I take the path of least resistance and ignore it.

touched a nerve Knobby by any chance?

If you read what I wrote, the question I posed was how much longer before either the thing collapes or we demand change?

Seems to me that as things stand, its intolerable, i.e. when the top gun in the UK Catholic church is found to be a a bit more than a tad hypocritical, but thats no different though than corrupt and immoral politicians, and so again I wonder at what point folk at large will reject what they stand for and demand better, or have we all just become immune to it and have simply come to accept the shabbyness of it all as the way things are?

Personally it properly hacks me off.

You must be really stupid to fall for a belief in love over all.

and you must be struggling to seperate the concept of personal belief systems from the word organised

Soz: Not quite sure how thats happened, but this is the story I linked too

Cardinal sin

Not the same experience, but similar.

My daughter has always been a problem child, not so bad that you could out your finger on it, but bad enough to take her to see an Educational Psychologist when she was wee. Nothing was really found so we soldiered on. She eventually went to university and got a degree in psychlogy. All good you would think. However cutting a long story short, she went again to another Ed Shrink and this time was very thoroughly assessed. Turns out shes Dyslexic, Dyspraxic and Discalculate to quite a severe level. She is however also highly intelligent, and this high IQ has veiled the underlying problem. It also meant that much of her behaviour has been from frustration over her IQ not being given the opportunity to express itself due to her handicap.
Having been diagnosed, nothing has physically changed, but she has taken off like you wouldn’t believe. Whilst she still has problems and issues, she now knows what they are and how to cope with them.

As an aside, both my wife and I have recognised some of the symptoms and without boring you, have found that likewise we both have similar, albeit not as severe issues, so all these years of saying the other left when I’ve got hands mixed up now has an explanation and there is a considerable weight lifted as a result.

Best advice: Check it out, and good luck.

Been there, done it and survived. Read the previous posts. Ignore all correspondence, and do not pay it.

The theory is that you have entered into a contract by parking there, in that there is a sign somewhere saying that you are agreeing to pay a fee of £xxx when you park there. Basically, they have to prove it was you/you Mrs who entered into the contract. If you don’t tell em then they can’t, especially if the car is insured for more than one driver.

McEwans Export & Plus 1 for Watneys Red Barrel

…… and whatever happened to the sophistication of a light and bitter??

a ‘cluster’ of cancers so close together

Actually, I don’t think it is a cluster. Reason being, there are two elements, the road we live in, and secondly the place she works at. There is no geographical relationship between them. The office is 8 miles away and the majority of people who work there actually come from a completely different town, which is even further away.

Its also clear from some of the posts above that this experience is far from unusual, and quite honestly talking to people generally if anything it seems to be more the norm. As far as Cancer being many different diseases is concerned, that may well be the case, but the reality is that the difference is generally the location within the body as opposed to the actual nature of the disease, which inevitably involves uncontrolled cellular mutation wherever it is.

in respect to an environmental cause.

Personally, I suspect the environment does have a lot to do with it bwaarp, but I don’t think what I’m experiencing is unusual. Thats the point. I’m not naieve, and I was/am well aware of the issues, but have to admit that I had no idea that it was this prevalent. As you can see above, I am not at all unique in this experience.

See what I mean? Thats incredible, ane the more you talk to people the more unbelievably widespread it is.

From 6 through to 75 stopping at most decades inbetween. Overall the higher proportion is under 50, not that that means anything.

Certainly sounds like mauling form the report on the BBC website.

I do wonder if the find of steroids at his home might have some bearing on this case. The mind altering effects are quite a well trodden path.

spchantler – Member

However, given that the world in general was just getting away from the bi-plane at the outbreak of WW2
1939 german nuclear energy program

If you look at your own somewhat dubious source, either our secret services were a bit quick off the mark, or alternatively you should stick to daffodils.

i just said that its possible there were other reasons to ww2 that maybe aren’t that well known

Its also entirely possible that I reproduce via a daffodil protruding from my backside. However, the real issue is: Is it likely? Much as it might be interesting, perhaps world shaking if either were true, the fact is that neither supposition is at all likely. However, given that the world in general was just getting away from the bi-plane at the outbreak of WW2, and that subsequently released documents and factual evidence all support the liklihood that you are talking nonsense. So I’d go with my Daffodil proposal if you want to avoid being pointed at in the street.

If you really want to takes this to its natural headbanging, screaming and spitting conclusion the argument goes like this.

Car Tax is based on emissions, more emissions = more tax
Logic: To induce a move away from gas guzzling eco unfriendly transport top low emission nirvana.
Outcome: With the excpetion of those who’ve had too much gel, cyclists are the lowest emission road users of all, so as the zero tax band is set somewhat higher than zero, far from banning or taxing cyclists, the natural conclusion is that we actually should be paid out of gas guzzlers taxes for using the road system.

Cue: Heads hitting keyboards and exploding in high dudgeon

mrmoofo: Fair one. I did read it, but didn’t really understand it in the way that you now describe it. My post is not actually aimed at anyone in particular, other than those in general who leap up and down and shout racist without any real concept or thought about what that means. You do indeed correctly state the point, i.e. denigrate. So soz that I misundertood your post, merely used it to illustrate the reason for responding.

Berm Bandit, apply the same to the world **** – it needs no debate. If you are attempting to denigrate someone by using it, or are just pain ignorant, don’t.

If you read what I wrote, in the context that I wrote it, what I said was that the actual fact (well documented) that Guy Gibson had a dog called ****, at a time when that word did not, in this country, carry the racist overtones that it does now, and the fact that, that was accurately reflected in a film also made at a time then the word did not carry, in this country, the racist overtones that it does now, does not make the film, the Dambusters, racist. In fact to try to pretend that it is out of some warped sense of political correctness is if anything gravitating straight into the hands of people like Nick Griffin, who no doubt would love to jump onto a situation whereby a national war hero was branded a racist by some “loonie leftys”.

That is not to say that if similar circumstances were to occur now, and say for example Prince Harry had a Black Labrador and it called the same thing, that that would be acceptable. See the difference?

Good, now move along theres nothing to get on your high horse about here.

grum – Member
Why?
Is the Dambusters racist?

Dog is called n****r

The word ****, was not considered in any way a pejorative term until round about the 1960’s/1970’s in the UK. Even then it was really only to do with what was going on the the US of A rather than what was going on here.

In fact the word is a derivation of the Latin noun, Niger, which literally means black. Nothing more and nothing less. So calling your black Labrador ****, really isn’t much more than a word play.

Unfortunately, much like the word Gay, its been hijacked and given all sorts of connotations which weren’t there originally. Presumably, as an excuse for PC retards to leap about and make stupid statements without understanding either the historical context or reality.

Basically shows the moral and intellectual bankruptcy of this government and their policies. You would like to think that perhaps they might just have the wit run these things past a lawyer or two before trying to implment them wouldn’t you?

Same every time the **** get in. Anyone remember YTS?? In principle the same old shite.

having a large, omnivorous predator

FFS!

This is a large omniverous predator

This is a man eating fox

..and these are nice shiny new council houses that don’t have broken back doors for foxes to get in through…. work it out for yourself.

and this is a fox trying to kick a cats back doors in…. large omniverous predator my arse!

Earth shattering news eh?

for meat to be cheap, massive corners have to be cut?

So which part of a horse is the corner? 😯

Fair one moley, I quite agree. Its always been a mystery to me how folk generally seem completely unable to relate government to their voting habits and government spending to the services they receive (and usually in the way that they have actually voted for them).

Remember one persons “driving waste out of the system” is anothers grandparent dying from neglect after 9 days alone.