I’m sure the frail will find someone else to attach their lack of confidence to.

Never a truer word spoken

Boo Hiss

Frankly this forum got worse when the Mleh lot departed, and progressively degraded as the Freds et al disappeared too. Totally accept the principle of “its my ball and I’m going home”, but if TJ’s offences are life time bannnings most forum in the world would have tumbleweed rolling through them.

In answer to your question, reference our latest equestrian gold medalist. Glad she didn’t fall for the idea that money is the only key to success.

Out of interest was that the same gold medal winner who was saying that she only managed to be in the sport because of her Grandmas will enabling her to buy a horse? Clearly not at all effected by funding then?

I think the point you are missing is that no one is actually claiming that it is the only key to success, however they are saying it is a pretty damn important one, as history and recent events quite clearly demonstrate.

Its not money per se thats important, its sensible targeted investment.

For example the reason BC are producing the goods is that they have put dosh into the sport where the most medals are available, (i.e. track), only then following on with the others, on top of that they have invested heavily in coach and official training alongside a process of identifying and fast tracking talent for the future.

Personally, I think it might be worth appointing Dave Braillsford and his team to coach at Westminster, mind you you have to have the raw material to start with and lets face it you can’t polish a turd.

Its difficult to replicate sucking through your teeth in an email.

Maybe, but at that point it’s no longer the fact based objective selection procedure you lot seem to be lauding them for.

I don’t think I did, and as both a coach and a team manager, I am fully aware of how hard it is to do what the Team management have to do. At the end of the day you will never be able to justify it to the athelete who misses out. What you do have to do is be able to wake up in the morning with a clear conscience, which I strongly suspect they can. The big issue here is not in fact the decision which demonstrably wasn’t wrong, it is the support and back up for the rejected athelete.

There are more issues about TEAM selection than merely speed. Things like attitude and team spirit definitely come into play as well. Wendy the Whinge has definitely demonstrated perfectly why you wouldn’t want her in your team.

Perhaps some introspection might be in order.

More sad really.

Not at all British, stiff upper lip and a tight sphincter required in such situations don’t you know.

I think a much more useful law would be one prohibiting journos from ambushing pissed celebs. There used to be a regulation in the army that you weren’t deemed responsible for your actions for the first few seconds after being woken. Same thing really.

I think the rules regarding starts in these short sprint events are designed to cover for the fact that there is considerable potential for starts going tits up. For that reason there is a zone within which if there is a “mishap” a restart is allowed. Without this, this style of racing would end up being farcial, especially at lower levels. Its the same as the first bend rule in cycle speedway, regardless of reason you have to clear the first bend otherwise its a restart. I do recall being taught to lay down my bike if the start wasn’t clean, becuase sometimes the officials don’t spot it, so you’re just making sure they do.

Strangely, the honesty seemed refreshing to me.

For whats its worth, I also think the Badminton situation was farcical, but not for the commonly held view. Seemed to me that common sense dicated that the Ref should have acted at the time on the night as soon as it started to happen. A quick “pack it in or I’ll DQ you” would have sufficed, then followed up with a DQ if they persisted, then a ) the paying public wouldn’t have been let down, b) 8 Olympians would not have been royally screwed, c) a sensible precedent would have been set. So for my money a major refing fail, which then created a problem and forced a massive reaction.

Just a thought, how do people figure out all this guff about what helmets do and don’t do?

Presumably accident statistics are just that and only record what happens when someone has in fact hurt themselves. So how do they come upon all the info about when folk have clumped themselves severely and not hurt themselves? Is there a special number we need to ring or something? I’ve got about 20 or so head/solid object interface reports to file where my head has not in fact exploded or been damaged if that is the case.

Wiggo was pissed (at his own admission), having just completed the most gruelling 6 weeks imagineable as a cylcist, he’d then been in front of cameras all afternoon and evening, and was hit with the “guys been killed whats your take on it” ambush”.

If you watched and listened what he actually said was that it requires give and take on both sides, if as cyclist you ride without a helmet, using your phone or listening to your ipod you can’t really complain if bad stuff happens to you, conversely if you drive you need to be tolerant and recognise the frailty of cyclists. He also stumbled with his words when the legality issue was talked about. It was far from clear what he actually meant at that point.

In my mind it was a pretty reasonable response in the circumstances and not at all wrong. So how about getting off the guys back and try celebrating his success rather than seeking some fictional sleight to your virility or “human rights” with which to pull him down?

Shot across bows fired

Personally I think thats a pretty reasonable outcome thus far. I have no idea what else the Plod have found, so not in a position to comment about the ongoing investigation. However re the Daley business I think its totally reasonable to send a message to all that you are using a public medium and that it is subject to the same limits as any other public medium. Good work IMHO

To all those who think this is a “bit Big Brother”, where would you draw the line? Child porn OK as long as its not public, snuff footage?? what?

To me it seems wholly appropriate that the law be used in any instance of this nature. The only difference in doing it online than doing it face to face is that online is to vastly broader audience. So what do you reckon the outcome would be had this abuse been published in the Sun? All OK? Accptable? …… Of course it isn’t, and no reason whatsoever why it should be on the internet either.

Edit: Dynati RE : Police interest-ZERO Try making a complaint. See what happens then. I’m guessing the Police don’t spend their time looking through literally billions of online sites and posts to find every single crime, but that they will look into it if there is a reason to do so.

Personally I wholly concur with the earlier comments made by Charlie the Bikemonger in respect of the importance of the issues and the reasons why Critical Mass exist.

However, where I disagree is over the wisdom of the approach taken on Friday. The reason for this is that one of the major problems we are up against is being seen as a group to be an embuggerance to the rest of humanity. Behaving very publically in a way that reinforces the stereotype aids no one.

I fully understand and respect the frustration and anger that exists, but personally believe that portraying cycling positively, as a mainstream activity and one that brings us as a nation great credit was not enhanced by CM’s actions on Friday. There are and where plenty of ways of achieving similar levels of coverage without being seen to behave like loonies, on what was an incredibly important and sensitive day. Remember we are still a target and that evening was likely to be one of the highest possible risk periods.

More damage done to the reputation of cycling and cyclists rather than anything achieved on our behalf IMHO.

Wouldn’t it be simpler, cheaper and easier to buy yourself a trophy and get you name engraved on ti?

Or maybe shite ticket administration shambles is reaping its rewards

<sighs>

LOL, I know, but just couldn’t resist it.

but there’s an undeniable element of chicken or the egg to it..

Thinking about it, it does seem a bit like travellers are clinging onto a lifestyle which is outmoded now, and that may very well be at the root of the problem. Maybe this is what happens when a particular way of life gets superceded. The actual process of change is pretty brutal, grim, and drawn out, where those in power basically grind those who aren’t into the ground and effectively assimulate them or wipe them out. I can think of reams of historical parallels.

Perhaps the real debate should be how to overcome the issue in a more civilised fashion. Who knows? It would be interesting to have a time machine and take a peak at it with the benfit of hindsight in say a couple of hundred years time.

No euphemisms before you start, but I got rammed in the rear by a woman who was doing her makeup and checking herself out in the mirror. It was the last thing I saw in my rear view before nutting the steering wheel and passing out..

now that many Roma have been forced into settled life by persecution and prohibitive legeslation, and are increasingly forced to give up those traditions and aspects of their culture, do you not think it’s a bit offensive to come out with a bigoted and ignorant ‘if you don’t like it don’t come here’ argument..?

Its an interesting point you make there, but is it not more a case of a lifestyle that had become increasingly irrelevant as the world has changed?

If you do the numbers, there are a couple revenue of things which stick out like roundhead in the court of King Charles. The value of the “black” Economy, which is phenomenal. Last time I did the excercise the best estimate was that if tax was paid on it all the level of personal income tax could come down from what was then about 30p in the £1 to about 12p. The other one was clocking cars.

Clocking cars is easily resolved by simply making it a requirement to have the milegae noted and recorded at every MOT. Its all computer linked and there is no reason for this info to not be readily available and cross referecned when you buy a vehicle ………. well except the fact that about 80%, yes thats right 80% of second hand cars have been clocked. The unforeseen consequence of this is that the economy would be profoundly effected by overnight nailing of that problem as could easily be done.

I’m not an economist, but I have no doubt that the so called black economy could as easily be nailed by judicious tax laws such as VAT which is phenomenally hard to avoid. However, to do so requires political will, which simply doesn’t seem to exist.

So immoral? Well its a bit like watching a rape. You didn’t do it, but aren’t you just a bit guilty too?? (I pose that question to one G. Osborne rather than the STW massif at large)

If we are going to share this small, crowded island we need to find a way to make it work a bit better.

Well said

It’s car-crash TV, by design. The ‘gypsy’ element is practically coincidental, they’ve just found a group of excessively boisterous people and filmed them playing up for the camera

No shit? 😯

Like I said above, and like Mr Smith has repeated. Favourable interactions with travellers generally seem to be a bit rare for us gorgies or whatever they call us. Truthfully, and with tongue now removed from cheek, the opportuntiy to portray a more positive, less stereotypical image does appear to have largely been ignored by the makers of the recent spate of traveller shows.

There are only two reasonable interpretations of this, which are firstly, the shows are a true reflection and therefore simply reinforce the stereotypes. Secondly, they are simply the producers manipulating the content to achieve ratings regardless of the damage it does. Either way its not particularly edifying in my view so after getting the gist of it, its gone onto the telly off-kindle out listing in my house.

That apart, my general view remains consistent. No problem with anyone leading their way of life to the best of their ability as long as it doesn’t screw someone else over to do it. No problem in taking anyone at face value. However, the downside of that is I do object to being screwed over, and having accepted people at face value, if that face is particularly nasty then thats the value that is reciprocated.

As with most people my views and opinions are formed through a combination of learning and personal experience. My personal experience of travellers had been uniformly negative, and as follows :-

1) As General Manager of a company on a trading estate our fleet of vehicles (locked in a secure pound) was ransacked for spares, including such things as doors, bonnets, wheels and engine components. Coincidentally at the same time a traveller encampment that had been on the estate for a few days disappeared overnight. The police advised that ours was the last of a spate of such things that occurred while they were there.
2) While a member of the parish council in the village where I live a traveller community appeared onto our playing field. This through a mysteriously “open” gate that had been locked and unused for years but somehow lost the chain and padlock, (never to be seen again,) on the night they rolled up. They stayed for 10 days, which strangely was precisely the length of time it took us to organise an eviction process. The ensuing clear up operation for what wes left behind and the legal process to evict cost us £40,000.
3) A “big fat gypsy wedding” took place on land neighbouring a business that I managed (not the same as at 1 above), and do you know what? Even though we locked all our vehicles inside the loading dock it was broken into and £67,000 worth of damage and theft took place. Curiously the travellers left shortly afterwards.
4) A tarmacing organisation employing people with heavy Irish accents appeared uninvited at the same company as at 3) above and proceeeded to spray tar onto the (fully occupied) car park area, damaging numerous cars in the process. When challeneged and requested to practice their craft elsewhere, they demanded £4000 in cash or “We will burn your **** place down”.
5) A woman purporting to be a Romany traveller, (also with a heavy Irish accent), came into my company asking that we buy some Lucky heather, an offer I considered most carefull before politely refusing. She then stood in reception delivering a tirade of abuse that would even make an Irish Tarmacer blush.

So thank God for the “Big Fat” series of fly on the wall documentaries which has given me an insight into the lives and lifestyles of this much maligned group. Without it I think I would have formed the view that in general they were a lying, thieving, cheating community of rogues living the life of Reilly off my back. I now appreciate that far from that they are in fact a distinct ethnic group with a set of strong moral traditions, which lead them to spend what little they do have on massively expensive religious and family events whilst being of no fixed abode and having no income.

Foreskins or Gurhkas?

3 main reasons in no particular order

1) Protection in falls and during riding

2) Padding around ulna nerve and carpal tunnel

3) Grip (you only need a sweaty hand to slip off your bars once to understand this one)

I believe that trumps looking cool.

Don’t most sensible people know that if there is a riot going on you get out of the area ASAP and probably do what the police ask you to do

Fair point, except that I don’t think there was a riot going on and the guy in question was trying to leave the area.

However, the counter balance to that is that complaints against Police are a daily occurance in the job, and rather like Harwoods file appears to be, the vast majority are vexatious and either not pressed when the complainant sobers up/comes down whatever, or are simply un proven. If not employing an officer was on the basis of this sort of thing you will not have much of a Police force at all.

Overall, Harwood has gone through the mangle, he will in all probability lose his career over it, because the forces own investigation will have been suspended with the criminal case being brought. He may well have been heavy handed, but I don’t think years of self abuse with alcohol can be blamed on him. So at the end of the day if he gets the boot from the force but not done for manslaughter I would say thats about right.

The simple fact is that at this level a suspect substance in the body is at best incompetence on the part of both the individual and his coaching team, or its cheating. There really isn’t any middle ground on it. What he’s now doing is going for the “someones spiked my drink” defence, which although theoretically possible is about as lame as it gets.

Personally, I’m pretty disgusted with the whole cheating issue and have little or no regard for these so called hyper athletes for that reason. I was starting to think that perhaps, just perhaps the doping nightmare was over. However, it clearly isn’t and obviously I was naive to believe it might be.

Shame that its going to blight what should be a fantastic achievement for British cycling generally.

Personally I would apply the adage that pain is Gods way of telling you that somethings up. I’ve suffered from MTFU most of my adult life on this subject. It now transpires that I’ve got a stenosis, which is basically a disc encroaching into nerve channels and effectively beginning to progressivly paralyse my lower limbs as a result. Currently warding it off with physiotherapy, but ultimately its going to mean fusing two vertabrae together with all that that entails.

Had I taken my own advice good focussed physio could and would have dealt with the problem on a permanent basis done early enough.

Regretably few people take “back problems” seriously, and that includes the medics. It actually took me 3 trips to my GP before I finally got an MRI scan and the problem fully amnd properly identified, and thats after 30 years of MTFU’ing and other mechanisms for keeping the pain at bay.

Just remember if it keeps happening or won’t go away there is a reason which no quack remedy will spot or be able to sort out for you whatever they claim.

It’s annoying to have lost £40 on a hotel room I can’t cancel, but it’s one of those things.

Sorry, and thanks for your understanding.

G

Speaking for Matt and I at MSG we’re both pretty gutted to have had to do this, but after a site inspection earlier in the week and careful consideration of the forecast (bearing in mind we are forecast for a further 25mm of rain today, and ongoing torrential rain tomorrow) a decision had to be made sufficiently early to stop people from travelling. Just to put the record into perspective the following might help with understanding of the situation.

Well it must be pretty bad – I did the Hylands course run by the same folk and it was horrendous. So for them to cancel this means it must be bad

The big difference is that at Hylands we were able to utilise parking on hard standing, didn’t have camping to consider and also managed to get the majority of the event village off the field, having said that even then we did still seriously consider calling it off, not as any sort of sleight to anyone’s gnarlyness, but simply because if you wish to be welcome on other peoples property its wise to consider the impact of leaving a 6 – 8 kilometre long, 2- 4 metre wide 20cm deep ribbon of mud through it. In the event after discussing the implications with the site management we chose to go ahead, with their blessing, having thoroughly assessed both their and our financial, logistical and moral exposure to risk. To be honest I suspect that afterwards the site operators might, with the benefit of hindsight, have made a different call.

I still can’t believe they’ve used Langdon. Of all the Essex/Suffolk courses to use, they pick that one. Its rubbish!

The reason they chose Langdon was because several of the top folks who rode it at MSG last year, when canvassed, felt that it was a) viable, and b) sufficiently different from other rounds to warrant bringing a round to Essex in Olympic year. I guess the fact that Essex County Council having poured shed loads of dosh into the sport and were really keen to bring a round to their county with a view to establishing themselves as an ongoing MTB XC race venue post Olympics didn’t hurt either.

From interest, Tunstall, Danbury, Codham, Thetford, and Hylands were all considered and were found to be either not suitable, not available or too similar to other venues. The hardest part of finding venues is actually suitable parking and arenas, not courses as such, trust me we do spend a lot of time trying to find and secure them, and it isn’t anywhere as easy as you might imagine.

Once again really sorry about the weekend if we could have found a way around it we definitely would have.

G

I think it sets a horrible precedent if you sentence someone for the thoughts in their head and the words that come out of their mouth.

I agree, so I hope the mods don’t ban me when I post up what I think of you and your comment you **** ******* **** 😉

Joking apart, come off it you can’t really be saying that its OK to be incredibly offensive with complete impunity surely???? However, having said that, I really don’t think this case warranted the court time it has received. There are much worse things that go on in this world that don’t get anything like the attention that this has had legally or publicity wise. Frankly, I think a sensible early statement from Terry stating that in the heat of the moment he reacted to Ferdinand in a less that adult fashion followed by an unreserved apology, with that followed by an acceptance of said apology from Ferdinand would probably have done far more good for both players, race relations and football, than resorting to law would ever achieve. As per usual the only real winners are the lawyers. Now that frankly is something that really is offensive!

Out of interest, is there anyone in your family who’s around the age of 86?

How much work do they do?

Nope most of the people in my family have life chances that are substantially different from the Royals.I can’t imagine why but they seem to die younger…… perhaps its the actual work that they do.

but isn’t the whole point of them that they set an example for us prols to look up to

No

Ah, so theres no point to them at all then?? I’d often presumed as much but wasn’t sure. could never beleive that we wasted that amount of money on them for no reason, but apparently we do.

…but isn’t the whole point of them that they set an example for us prols to look up to????

In these straightened PC times as more and more ludicrously unreal groups become protected from my disdain it sadly becomes necessary for us bigots to seek pastures new to vent our vile and corrupt view of the world. Seems to me that Tory voters are perfectly acceptable as a group to receive said filth, albeit it is uncomfortably close to cannabalism.

Remember: Bigots are people and have feelings too 8)

Yes conrade, I’ll be there with my tumbril

I do, bleeding disgrace frankly, if everyone else in the public sector is is having to endure 20% or more cuts and those bloodsucking parasites are actually getting even more for doing very little it stinks.

Personally I find it impossible to justify at any time, but now???? Its a joke.

bugger