I wonder in all this whether anyone has taken into account the probable influx of mainly elderly ex pats who are already starting to return to the UK from their previously comfortable retirements on the Cost Del Whatever? Looks very much like we will be swapping healthy working age contributors to the economy for less healthy persons with a much higher call on the welfare state…. I wonder what that will do for places to live?

What do you think that is?
The way BC treats non-Olympic cycling disciplines?

Clearly that’s why Cyclo Cross is in the doldrums too…… right?? 😯

The reality is that British Cycling is comprised of its members. All officials are volunteers and generally from the discipline they cover. A lack of officials therefore tends to correlate with apathy on the part of persons involved in that discipline. If you take a moment to think about it you will see the rational is obvious and self evident.

Best security proposition for us would be a unified European Defence force….however the response to this will demonstrate why its unlikely.

Go on then list all the Downhill comms you know….

and then run crying to mummy

Take your point, but actually its not like that. What actually happens is rider stacks….major injury necessitating life long care occurs….. person receiving bill for life long care seeks to mitigate their loss by going after anyone and everyone who might be culpable…… Persons covering said events bottoms begin to squeak….. everything gets tightened up.

Generally speaking the person who is injured or killed has no input whatsoever into what happens afterwards. Sadly, there is no such concept as “at your own risk” in English Law, so you cannot contract out of your rights, so this is the way its going to be and it always was the case that it would. Best idea is to run things properly, and if we want to do this stuff, take our turn at standing up and volunteering.

spectator safety possibly weighs heavily in the insurance-costs…

If that is referring to what I think its referring about, I would repeat my last sentence i.e.

Best idea is to run things properly……….

The reason British Cycling are not involved in Enduro is simply because of lack of officials to do the thing justice and therefore keep the risks under any sort of meaningful control. It is not because “they” don’t want to support it. Overall there are too few Downhill qualified commissaires and there are waaaay too few to cover Enduros where each section really needs an official on it.

The reality for all cycling is they are getting spanked over insurance cover (i.e. something of an exponential rise in premiums due to the number of hefty claims) and are therefore having to tighten up on procedures.

Despite imaginations running wild about resources and staffing, the reality is that the vast majority of people actually doing things with a BC hat on are volunteers from within the discipline which they are officiating at. A lack of volunteers equals a lack of officials. A lack of officials equals a lack of racing. Simple really.

I’ve been in the debt chasing business for years. Best advice is to start off by making clear what your terms of payment are, (we actually get a signed copy as part of the account opening process just so there is no argument later). Late payment and the account is stopped immediately, i.e. first day late. We have a very brief chase period, after which we send them a copy of a County Court application made out in their name with a note to the effect that it will go in without further notice if the debt goes unpaid for another day.

Curiously we have an excellent sales ledger with very few losses and next to nothing overdue.

The moral of the story being if you allow people to take the piss they will.

Think about it……. they are in effect stealing that which is yours, when else would you accept that in your life without going berzyquack?

Personally, I think the freedom to do that is what has stopped us having a full blown revolution in this country. Its a bit like that little release valve on the top of a pressure cooker, it keeps the pressure at a sustainable level. For that reason I think all of these hecklers should be stopped immediately and lets get on with properly ferking up these priviliged bar stewards soon as!

AMERICAN POLITICIANS ARE CORRUPT TOO SHOCKER!!

You have to view it in context to get it. Whats most people now fail to appreciate is that this was an era when the black and white minstrels were acceptable light entertainment. The parody and satire was ruthless and unprecedented. It was a product of the time, not of now.

Do you know what?

I am much more content with the examination of the issues subsequent to the Police action that I am by what happened on the other side of the fence subsequent to the same action.

I will admit to a wry smile listening to a radio report from Hull the other day when some voluntary worker was moaning on about the influx of Roma peoples into the area, how the place was going to the dogs, because there was furniture dumped in the street and no one felt safe anymore. He then off into one about how they didn’t even try to integrate into the community……… The irony being that he was of Pakistani origin. I can definitely remember pretty much word for word the same stuff being trotted out about the Italians, Portugese, Greeks, West Indians, Indians, Pakistanis, Other East Europeans et al. Presumably if you go back far enough you’ll find some Anglo Saxon manuscript moaning about the bloody Normans, coming over here, undercutting the local Barons with their foreign ways etc etc.

Personally I think its healthy to be reinvigorated and challenged every now and then, kicks the complacent up the duff basically.

Or should select committees only DISCUSS ideas that we agree with?

No but it might be nice if they adopted the quaint notion of having the first idea of what they are speaking about before trapping off. For example: Road Tax….. No such thing exists, Not only that no road user directly contributes to the upkeep of the road network, it comes from general taxation, and EVEN if there were any possibility of cyclists being required to take part in the same taxation scheme as motorists they would still pay nowt being as it is, based on vehicle emissions.

So is it too much to expect a Parliamentry Select committee to only discuss things that they have the faintest idea about!! I would say surely its a minimum expectation isn’t it?

I suspect that this quote,

Teachers are seen as “generals”, able to make their own decisions, the OECD reports, and local government education officials are often drawn from the ranks of head teachers and teachers.

From here may have a lot to do with their success.

In other words when politicians leave well alone and allow the experts to do their job, miraculously things get better.

At least 30k.
Nurses and firemen should be paid more too.

I always wonder what has happened to all the “we ought to pay public servants more” people come election time. Seems to me that when it comes to actually voting to pay more tax so we can do so the public spiritedness seems to dry up rather quickly……. just saying like 😯

I have a stenosis, which is basically a crsuhed disc pushing out into the Sciatic nerve channels, which then leads to pins and needles followed by numbness followed by not being able to feel or move my legs. I fear that it is the upshot of a lifetime of off road cycling and consistently taking hefty impacts up through the back.
It was found after an MRI scan and a range of symptoms as described by others above over a period of time. It can be minimised through good physiotherapy and core strengthening, but it will not go away. The pathway is a) Physio, b) Epidural, c) Titanium Cage around the spine.

I suspect that these sort of problems are a function of the sport but are exacerbated by lack of stretching, and core strength, and most of all ignoring it with the aid of painkillers. Had I known this when I first started having symptoms the prognosis would be much better simply by doing the sensible things such as stretching and physio, and resting up when it was caning.

It’s stretching in the extreme to suggest Boris links social poverty and IQ. And it’s a circular conversation to say where’s the value in your contribution when individuals haven’t read the speech and then make ill informed comments.

On the basis of the above I have now read through the entire speech twice more, and I am pleased to report that my intial impression that Boris was ponitificating about Social Mobility and scuh like things whilst clearly having no idea of or contact with the reality for the vast majority is correct.

To be fair, she did manage to do really well at school and finish a chemistry degree at Oxford

No one is disagreeing with that point, mark you she was turned down by Oxford initially and only got in because someone else dropped out. Not only that she also had very little political success until backed by Denis. Which in my book tends to suggest that despite the fact she had a fearsome intellect she was about at a time when being a woman was distinct career embuggerance, and still only overcame the obstacles to success due to influences that have little to do with her merit as an individual, which is basically the point.

And the Thatcher grocers daughter myth…..

Thatcher (Denis) was already a millionaire when he met his second wife and financed her training as a barrister, and a home in Chelsea; he also bought a large house in Lamberhurst, Kent, in 1965. His firm employed 200 people by 1957, but he sold it to Castrol on 26 August 1965 after suffering a mild nervous breakdown in 1964. He received a seat on Castrol’s parent board, which he retained when Burmah Oil took it over in 1966. He retired from Burmah in June 1975, four months after his wife won the Conservative Party leadership election.
In addition to being a director of Burmah Oil, he was chairman of the Atlas Preservative Co, vice-chairman of Attwoods plc from 1983 to January 1994, a director of Quinton Hazell plc from 1968 to 1998 and a consultant to Amec plc and CSX Corp. He was also a non-executive director of retail giant Halfords during the 1980s.

Obviously none of that had any impact whatsoever, and everything that happened after that would have happened had she not married the lovely Denis.

Just to put the self made man Myth to bed (admittedly from Wikipedia)

Branson was born in Blackheath, London, the son and eldest child of barrister Edward James Branson (10 March 1918 – 19 March 2011)[5] and Eve Huntley Branson (née Flindt).[5][6] His grandfather, the Right Honourable Sir George Arthur Harwin Branson, was a judge of the High Court of Justice and a Privy Councillor.[7] Branson was educated at Scaitcliffe School (now Bishopsgate School)[8] until the age of thirteen. He then attended Stowe School until the age of sixteen. Branson has dyslexia and had poor academic performance as a student, but later discovered his ability to connect with others.[9]

Presumably being the grandson of a Privvy Councillor is an everyman experience.

but largely here you are fed, watered, warm and dry.

I’m sure you could say the same for the slaves o nthe plantations in the West Indies, but I’m not sure its a great indicator of human values.

which bit would you like?

Personally, I’d just like a fair crack at the pot along with everyone else. Unfortunately that is a very great distance from what happens and for politicians that expound about the market and how it finds equilibrium left to its own devices its a bit rich given that at no point have they ever been exposed to genuine market forces in their lifetime, nor have their ancestors in recent history. Try checking out their lineage and perhaps read up about the telephone number sums being bandied about in the current Lawson case. These are not things to which you or I or our children or their children, or their childrens children can aspire.

He forgot the Sweenie and the Professionals. Other than that, spot on.

The descriptions might be spot on, but what he fails to acknowledge is that with the exception of one term we had suffered at the hands of the Tories since Atlee, that the winter of discontent was under Ted Heath and that the union disputes were in fact resolved by Harold Wilsons lot. The two terms of Labour in the 70’s were a hung parliment and a coalition, which he can hardly now claim enables a Government to do whatever it pleases now can he? So his point is?????

At no point does he use the phrase “too stupid”.

But he does talk about there being high IQ types at the top of the cornflakes packet and low IQ types at the bottom. In other words inferring that IQ and status are linked. Which kind of overlooks that the distribution of wealth in this country still approximates to pretty much the share out by William the Conquereor made to the Crown, his nobles and the Church.

Same old debate about crime and punishment left alone long enough it’ll get round to realising that hacking nasty people to death does not resolve anything.

Bascially its about the 3 R’s Revenge, Removal and Rehabilitation. Revenge might be lovely, but thats until the point that we get down to key factors in Watkins behaviour. It is very likely that he will have been offended against himself as is very often that case with paedophilia, so suddenly you will be confronted with the realisation that natural progression to the hang em and flog em argument would be to execute the child that Watkins has offended against so as to break the chain of cause and effect. Of course the other alterantive would be better treatment both for victims and offenders. But hey lets not get a good old knee jerk go to waste.

Removal is very expensive, but in some cases might well be necessary but truthfully the way forward has to be rehabilitation in whatever form that takes.

The difference is that I don’t call an Irish man “Paddy” and I wouldn’t think he was a “sensitive flower” for taking some offence if I did.

However, he may well refer to himself as such and often will. The same is true with the word Jock. Being the person that created the furore, I have to admit that in retrospect it wasn’t good use of language in an online context. Ultimately there are two elements, that make a word perjorative. One being the intent, and the other being the offence caused by its use. As I discovered yesterday, it is possible for the latter to occur without the former, and for that reason I have apologised, and will think twice before using it again. In my household it has always been a term of endearment and absolutely not an insult. That however, does not make it so everywhere else, and thats the point.

If it offends its offensive. Simple really.

Having started this thread I would just like to say its been really useful to me in considering all of the issues around the independence sitaution. Personally, I don’t agree with it per se, but I would strongly support more and better, devolved government for everyone.

The reason I don’t support it, is that I think the impact both sides of the border is so unpredictable, and potentially catostrophic as to make it unwise, on the act in haste repent at leisure principle. Therefore if it were to go ahead I for one would want it to be on longer term and managed step by step basis. It is also for this reason that I think that the entire population of the UK should be engaged in the decision.

Finally regarding my apology: I feel that sometimes argument is mistaken for and even becomes belligerance. It is actually a very good technique for testing views and theories. It works well right up to the point where testosterone takes over and sense leaves the room. Bottom line is both make and listen to argument, but don’t be too proud to admit when you’re wrong. This forum would be the better for that, and far fewer people would suffer the ban hammer if that were understood.

RIP Fred and TJ

Just plain wrong Berm Bandit the result of the referendum is binding on westminster.

The decision to hold a binding referendum on Independance was made at Westminster. Until the referendum is held and subject to a yes vote Westminster retains ultimate control. That being the case not putting an SNP/Independance bum on a Westminster seat and instead returning a vast majority of Labour MP’s can’t really be construed as a sweeping vote in favour of independance surely?.

Life’s too short. Crack on Berm Bandit.

Actually, I’ve just reread the OP, and I’m going to hold my hands up and accept the point regarding Jocks. 😳

I can see how that can be seen as perjorative. It was not the intent, and when viewed from my perspective and as intended it did not seem to me to be so. However, online and not knowing my background or where I’m coming from I can see how it could be misconstrued as such.

Apologies for that unintentional error.

Nope I’m not making peace. I actually think its an entirely false premise and a very poor attempt to bypass the original point. Sorry if I didn’t make that clear.

PS: a bit rich coming from you JY.

Ditto Jock Stein… not that it has any relevance whatsoever, and can we please move on from it? I accept that you are right and I am an evil facist white anglo saxon racist git and that I intentionally made a slur on the sacred heritage of the Scottish people, however its getting boring now and can I move on and insult you in another way??

BB. I called you out on using a derogatory term. Either take on board the fact that many Scots find it offensive and stop using it, or come north, use the term freely and see how far your Scottish heritage excuse gets you.

Its not derogatory, its also a term that originated North of the border. You can of course choose to be offended by it if you wish, but personally I’d man up a bit, perhaps look for a more persuasive platform from which to make your point. Like I said …pot. kettle, black etc. Generally speaking you will find that us soft southern bedwetters hold you top hard northerners in much higher regard than you seem to imagine, and in the main the vitriole is a one way street…. (but not wishing to fall for bencoopers “Look out for the Sassenach bastard’s tricky double bluff manoeuvre” argument, lets leave it there eh?)

Berm Bandit the Westminster parliament is for the whole of the UK,which currently includes Scotland. I have no problem with Scottish mps not having a vote on matters which do not affect Scotland- the West Lothian question. They have every right to vote on issues affecting the whole UK until Scots vote for independence.

…and your point is caller? [to make it easy for you, what the point I was making was that in the forum that actually makes the decision (i.e. Westminster), on Scottish Independence, the Scottish electorate manifestly didn’t support the SNP, also that the removal of what some might see as Scottish common sense from the picture will have a substantial impact on UK politics). That is all.

which means that for 62 of the last 67 years, Scottish MPs as an entity have had no practical influence over the composition of the UK government

Or to put it another way since World War 2 out of the 6 terms of Labour government 2 or 1/3rd were directly as a result of the Scottish MP’s. So instead of 10 Tory and one tory dominated coaltion we would have had 13 periods of Tory domination, out of 17 which is 75% near as damn it which is precisely what we lefties down here are worried about.

Interesting how you can manuipulate both words and statistics isn’t it?

I can think of plenty of familiar collective terms for the English, bit the swear filter won’t let me post any of them!

Interestingly so can I and now I think about it there is a considerable element of the pot calling the kettle black don’t you think? So how about talking to each other like grown ups instead?

You’re kidding right? Independence is the raison d’etre and central policy of the SNP, a party which has been steadily gaining support for 40 odd years and has been voted into power in the last 2 Scottish governments. The people of Scotland voted for a referendum but maybe we should just call it off as you think it’s a nonsense.

I note the overwhelming vote in favour of the SNP and a referendum below.

I’d feel guilty if that was the case – but really the way Scotland votes hasn’t affected the result of an election for a long, long time.

See below.

Current list of Scotlands Westminster MP’s

Alexander, Danny (Liberal Democrat) Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey
Alexander, Douglas (Labour) Paisley and Renfrewshire South
Bain, William (Labour) Glasgow North East
Banks, Gordon (Labour) Ochil and South Perthshire
Begg, Anne (Labour) Aberdeen South
Brown, Gordon (Labour) Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath
Brown, Russell (Labour) Dumfries and Galloway
Bruce, Malcolm (Liberal Democrat) Gordon
Campbell, Menzies (Liberal Democrat) North East Fife
Carmichael, Alistair (Liberal Democrat) Orkney and Shetland
Clark, Katy (Labour) North Ayrshire and Arran
Clarke, Tom (Labour) Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill
Connarty, Michael (Labour) Linlithgow and East Falkirk
Crockart, Mike (Liberal Democrat) Edinburgh West
Curran, Margaret (Labour) Glasgow East
Darling, Alistair (Labour) Edinburgh South West
Davidson, Ian (Labour (Co-op)) Glasgow South West
Docherty, Thomas (Labour) Dunfermline and West Fife
Donohoe, Brian H. (Labour) Central Ayrshire
Doran, Frank (Labour) Aberdeen North
Doyle, Gemma (Labour (Co-op)) West Dunbartonshire
Gilmore, Sheila (Labour) Edinburgh East
Greatrex, Tom (Labour (Co-op)) Rutherglen and Hamilton West
Hamilton, David (Labour) Midlothian
Harris, Tom (Labour) Glasgow South
Hood, Jim (Labour) Lanark and Hamilton East
Hosie, Stewart (Scottish National) Dundee East
Jamieson, Cathy (Labour (Co-op)) Kilmarnock and Loudoun
Joyce, Eric (Independent) Falkirk
Kennedy, Charles (Liberal Democrat) Ross, Skye and Lochaber
Lazarowicz, Mark (Labour (Co-op)) Edinburgh North and Leith
McCann, Michael (Labour) East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow
McClymont, Gregg (Labour) Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East
McGovern, Jim (Labour) Dundee West
McGuire, Anne (Labour) Stirling
McKechin, Ann (Labour) Glasgow North
McKenzie, Iain (Labour) Inverclyde
MacNeil, Angus Brendan (Scottish National) Na h-Eileanan an Iar
Moore, Michael (Liberal Democrat) Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk
Morrice, Graeme (Labour) Livingston
Mundell, David (Conservative) Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale
Murphy, Jim (Labour) East Renfrewshire
Murray, Ian (Labour) Edinburgh South
Nash, Pamela (Labour) Airdrie and Shotts
O’Donnell, Fiona (Labour) East Lothian
Osborne, Sandra (Labour) Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock
Reid, Alan (Liberal Democrat) Argyll and Bute
Robertson, Angus (Scottish National) Moray
Robertson, John (Labour) Glasgow North West
Roy, Frank (Labour) Motherwell and Wishaw
Roy, Lindsay (Labour) Glenrothes
Sarwar, Anas (Labour) Glasgow Central
Sheridan, Jim (Labour) Paisley and Renfrewshire North
Smith, Robert (Liberal Democrat) West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine
Swinson, Jo (Liberal Democrat) East Dunbartonshire
Thurso, John (Liberal Democrat) Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross
Weir, Mike (Scottish National) Angus
Whiteford, Eilidh (Scottish National) Banff and Buchan
Wishart, Pete (Scottish National) Perth and North Perthshire

Now tell me that it wouldn’t have any effect on the rest of the UK!

Who do you think? The Scots.

I think you might be missing the point. I, and a considerable number of others are both entitled to and do consider ourselves to be Scottish. Some by birth, i.e. born there and moved away later, some by parentage, i.e. Scottish parents and brought up as Scottish, to name but two ways. Trying to undermine that reality with stupid points like “I bet you have some friends who are black” or trying to make an issue out of the non issue of the use of the term Jock as a familar collective term for Scots will not invalidate that point.

The simple fact is that there is a real issue here that goes rather further than simple tribalism.

The currency point ignores the fact that monetary policy is set by global capitalism. Currency sovereignty is a myth (except perhaps for North Korea).

I suspect that there are a few within the Euro zone who might disagree with you there.

vorlich – Member
OP, referring to us as jocks isn’t great way of engaging us in debate TBH.

……and us is precisely whom? (Could I just point out that I would be entitled to a Scottish passport should this independance thing come about)

The very fact that some people south of the border seem to think that they should have the right to have a vote on whether they want Scotland to remain part of the UK, is a very salient part of the reason Scotland should try to escape from Englands colonialist attitude to all other nations

So something which will have a very real impact on the lives of everyone living both north and south of the border in numerous and probably many unseen ways, and where the ethnicity of those people both north and south of the border is inextricably intertwined should be decided by a minority which is selected by those with a vested interest in one particular outcome? Is that about it?

Personally, I’d love to see total electoral reform throughout the UK, with much more emphasis on devolved powers. Really good thinking in my view, but I’m completely unconvinced by the Scottish situation, seems to me its being done for some very dubious reasons.

At the risk of immense ridicule I have to say I tend to go with the after life concept, but not necessarily in the context of established religion as such. There are two main threads to that one being the purely scientific issue of the destruction of matter, i.e. you can only convert it into energy or a different form. So your mortal remains go on after you are gone and you can follow that thought quite some way. However perhaps the more meaningful is the passing on of genes and acquired attributes from parent to child.

Its taken a long time but I’ve come to the conclusion that the meaning of life is summarised by its a relay race, and the deal is you just try to pass the baton on in a better place then when you received it.

That is all

I watched it. Very interesting bit of telly. Only time will tell.