Amazon have got it for £158.99 at the moment; I got mine with HR and cadence for £220 from Evans the other week which is at the higher end but impatience got the better of me

Where do you ride and how far do you ride?

I do most of my riding in the Yorkshire Dales and ride 32:20 but I like 4-6 hour rides, for the Kielder 100 I’m going 32:21 and spinning like crazy.

If you live somewhere less hilly 32:18 is probably a good starting point; don’t listen to all the macho 32:18 is all you need nonsense, find a gear that you enjoy riding and go to the MTBR endurance singlespeed forums for some good info.

Although with that in mind the hotel business may not be the best place for them.

You could be right there

http://www.aspinaloflondon.com/eshop-catalogue/mens-collection/mens-leather-wallets/billfold-coin-wallet/1143-billfold-coin-wallet-in-black-croc-and-cobalt-suede

I got one of these, it is nice

The women in question are from Askham Grange Prison, an open prison in a small village near York.

I went to primary school opposite it and my mum used to be a prison visitor there; when I was a kid we used to take prisoners close to release out with us on a weekend to the seaside (murderers inc) as part of their rehab.

My mum could tell you horrific stories about how some of these women end up killing their partners/parents and they all involve years of physical/sexual abuse such as husbands pouring pans of red hot chip fat on their wives legs while they slept.

These women are not a threat to society

CHB- we do night rides out of Gledhow Valley woods every week, 20 mile+ then beer and chicken wings at a pub whos name I forget (real ale place out of Chapel Allerton), couple of weeks off at the mo with road training for Kielder but drop us a line if you fancy it

Any of you in Leeds?

With all the animosity, are any of you face to face friends (Ton/Elfin) or is it just about who’s got the biggest dick in the playground? As someone who enjoys the banter on here and expects a response you should re-read this thread and realise what a set of little bitches you’re coming across as

I think you should all go to bed, take a break tomorrow and come back friends on Friday

As a relative newbie, who is Fred?

All this couldn’t have come at a better time for Brant.

I’m sure it will all calm down but all we’ve seen is which side of the lines people stand when they feel threatened.

STW is a lovely place but when people feel their family, friends and the things they hold dear are at risk they will bite.

90% of communication is based on facial expressions and body language so you never get the full picture on here

Just when you thought you’d seen it all, looters in Ponders End Tesco’s were seen carrying their booty into the mosque 20 metres away. This is NOT hear say, it’s come from a first hand witness..

Those were charitable gifts for when they break fast tonight

preparing airline food trays

Now your talking shit jobs, I lasted one day at that before going back to flying clay pigeons when rich men shout PULL!, £1.50 an hour and 20 free shot gun shells (had to used on site though)

Hora blood, the wey u iz talkin me finks you finks inglish iz da 1st langwidge of dees bruthas

iDave, I’m deadly serious; there are kids who walk ten miles before school for a bucket of dirty water then work the land when they get home, this country is a wonderful place, people need to realise that

It means they have to try harder at school, develop better interview skills, buy a smart shirt and shoes instead of x box games m, MTFU and be grateful to live in a country that people will travel all the way fro Eastern Europe to work in

TJ, I’ve read your comments and agree that there is a long road that has led to the creation of a disenfranchised underclass, the problems are complex and the solutions difficult BUT this behaviour is unacceptable and opportunistic, there are no leaders emerging from these groups with a manifesto and some of us believe it should be stopped with force; once they are sitting nicely then we can begin

Sorry TJ buts it’s wishy washy let’s sit down and talk about it bollocks that’s prevented these problems being nipped in the bud.
There is a large portion of society who does not care why they feel upset and have worked through adversity without resorting to this type of behaviour; you need to accept that some of us would happily take a shield and bat and beat them back to their mummies

Good point nedrapier and they’ve seen they can get away with it and that doesn’t set a good precident.
without fear of upsetting anyone I think pretty hard tactics are needed to bring this now and make them scared of behaving like this again.

They are not excluded, they are welcome to join us but certain behaviours and contributions are expected.

I fully accept there is an ever growing group that is beyond help/useful integration but aside from managing their ‘symptoms’ are just heading towards more defined ghettoes and them and us?

Well said Hora, so what’s the answer

Diane Abbott’s just been on Sky News saying we can’t abandon them and when it’s all overr we need to help them, discuss.

as they are the “Babylon” and enemies of the community,

that led to all sorts of accusations against me this morning, take your racist thoughts back

Filey is lovely and relaxed, I was concieved there by the way, but aside from the beach/brigg/boating lake there is not a lot to do; that said FANTASTIC fish and chips.

Scarborough, good seaside town, fishing trips and boat rides, head into the moors for a day out and upto Whitby and the Star at Harome, about 20 miles for a Michelin class meal.

Great riding nearby in the North York Moors

oooh it’s been a good day on here today. Hora is quite right, history is just that, the longer we bare grudges the longer all this nonsnese will perpetuate itself.

Don’t get me started…. My company has offices in Lyon, I often get the TGV from Paris and a 1st class ticket is cheaper than Leeds to Birmingham, I get a reclining seat and very often free waitress service and the arrive/depart often within 10secs of their alloted time. The train service in this country is third world

it’s only a bear guys, it was killing folk and got shot.

is it liberal pussy day on STW today?

For all you trolls, I’m starting something on the Polar bear thread, care to join me?

it’s only a bear guys, it was killing folk and got shot.

is it liberal pussy day on STW today?

TJ, thanks for your informative response, food for thought, I will stop trolling on this subject and get back to my Mail on Sunday supplements

So TJ, tell me about your productive prison system, the one that satisfy Mail readers like myself and more liberal types

It’s only counter productive if you release them

Not me when it comes to the US justice system, my only mistake was saying about a few slipping through the net.

I ask about figures as it seems most on here have little faith in the UK system.

I do like a tough prison though.

Has anyone seen figures on how many innocent people have been executed in the USA as a percentage of the total killed?

I’m not sure you’d always get a tape of them doing it, is that an essential?

given point 1 and the robust nature of the evidence required and the likely years of appeals do you think people would slip through?

1) how do you define this new category of guilt you want that allows you to execute?

ILMG has answered this one

2) how do you differentiate between different degrees of child killing to decide who gets a death sentence?

Any act that is accepted to cause harm and leads to the death of a child- I like the ambiguity of this one as it could get some drunk drivers strung up as well

3) do you accept that miscarriages will happen and thus would you be content for your son to be executed for a crime he id not commit?

Collateral damage, in general it would be for the greater good so if a few slip through the net so be it

BoardinBob, you’d identify them by pinpointing the areas with a high proportion of criminals based on historical data, look for similarities be the social problems, high unemployment etc and treat the root cause through community initiative; it would be an indirect and long process.

By giving people self esteem you are likely to increase their empathy towards others.

So no incentive to behave inside then?

You want crime to increase then? ‘cos harsh punishment increases reoffending rates.

No incentives- it should be such an intolerable and frightful experience that they cry for their mummies and never want to return.

Any form of reward in prison negates the reason for sending them, if they don’t leave realising that what they did was wrong and the consequence for doing it is something they would not want to repeat then prisons are obviously too soft.

The obvious solution is for society to identify and work with those most likely to commit crime at an early age to prevent them taking that path, however, thats not practical.

TJ, harsh sentences are only such when you actually serve the full sentence and don’t get released mid way through like the chap from the Baby P case the other day.

And yes, I do want to punish people.