Also there’s the general ‘presence’ they give you, filtering through traffic with a bit of noise makes you more ‘visible’ to drivers as they hear your before they see you.

Is there any actual evidence for this? Only time I notice load exhausts is as a pedestrian, in a modern car with the radio on, they don’t make an difference….

So no chance of hearing a horn then?

Have you thought you should probably turn it down so you are aware of your environment? If you failed to hear a horn surely that would be driving without due care and attention ?

Just saying like 🙂

As it is 100% down to the person choosing a noisy exhaust then the understanding lies with them, not with the people they are annoying.

Any other law breaking where we should live and let live ?

Yep the ones that help save lives. Also if its CE marked its legal regardless of what you think, thats the only test it needs to pass.

You lot are hilarious, on one hand you want bikers to behave in a way that’s safer, then when they make themselves more noticeable and thus safer you moan about that too.

I bet you lot would be antisocial and ride a trail in the Lake District on a busy Bank Holiday weekend and think it was perfectly fine to terrorise walkers and families, that’s legal so all fine !!!

Mind you most of you are probably in a coffee shop working out what the next thing to be offended by is 🙂

@bikebouy So let me get this straight you regardless of the legal or moral implications of it you honestly think that there are no times that a loud exhaust would make the presence of bike known where there would be no time to hit the horn?

There’s no reason to remove your bell and reflectors from your bike but I bet you’ve done it.

And how does than annoy other people?

By having to shout loudly rather than giving them a little tinkle. Also what about the mental trauma to the car driver who does not see them due to lack of reflectors and hits them 🙂

There are lots of things that annoy us, sometimes we have to live and let live a little and understand we sometimes have be a little bit understanding.

Guys he gets it hes just trolling, you would have to be an idiot not to understand that a louder exhaust would make you more noticeable to car drivers, which in some situations would prevent an accident. Your not an idiot are you bikerbouy? So you must be a troll?

I just got back to from Portimao track trip early this week and some of the exhausts were ridiculous, there really is no need for that !!!

@bikebouy

I think I did answer the question “A bloody horn is too late after someone has just turned into the side of you.” I think you just didn’t read what was there.

I actually find them really annoying to be honest, however I don’t pre-judge peoples reasons for fitting them.

A Horn is the recognised location beacon, not a loud exhaust.

Are you suggesting people ride along with there finger on the horn continuously to make sure car drivers know they are there before they make a right turn or pull out at a junction 🙂 Surely that would be more annoying, than a fruity exhaust 🙂

You are just out having fun on the public highway..

Like a group of 10 club cyclists holding up traffic ? We all have a right to use the roads for fun or for transport. Or is it just motorbikes that are not allowed to used the roads for recreation ?

Anyway Bikebouy do you think we are so poor like cyclists that we can’t afford bikes that are less than 3 years old 😀

MOT how crazy 🙂

Bikebouy Horseshit back to you buddy !!!!

A bloody horn is too late after someone has just turned into the side of you.

If you are going to be rude to me I will be rude to you, stop talking crap about something you know nothing about mate !!! There I said it 🙂

Loads of reason for an after market exhaust.

Cheaper than a OEM one to replace after crash

Bike used on track to so tuned for power

Lighter than standard item

Looks better than standard item.

Some might like it stupid loud I guess, no accounting for taste some people ride Whyte mountain bikes 🙂 But to say making a racket on the highway is the only reason, shows a lack of understand or more likely trolling 🙂

If its CE marked it will pass an MOT they don’t test it with a sound meter. I don’t run a load exhaust on my bikes anymore but I certainly understand those who do. I myself have heard a bike in my car before I have seen it so it deffo works !!

Hi Sockpuppet

Actually the stats don’t agree with you, the biggest cause is cars not seeing them and not giving them their right of way, hence the loud exhaust so they might hear you. Second biggest is being taken out by the car you are overtaking, normally them turning right without looking.

Right of way violation accidents (38% of cases)
Loss of control at bends at speed (11% of cases)
Overtaking/filtering accidents (15% of cases)

So in some of those cases where bikes go off the road on there own yeah inappropriate speed will be a factor. In that 11% there will also be diesel spills, medical episodes and the odd badger jumping out. But hey lets not get the facts get in the way of everyone’s perceived idea of how dangerous it is when bikers left to their own devices are not taken out by people making mistakes in cars.

I can’t remember people saying how selfish off piste skiiers are to their loved ones and the people who have to dig them out. That’s because snow is fluffy and not seen as dangerous, even though the stats say that off piste skiing is one of the most dangerous leisure pursuits this side of base jumping.

So no most crashes are not caused by the rider going too fast into a bend.

Problem is some places (like the A272) attract A LOT of bikers. It only needs a tiny percentage of those behaving badly to make it look like everyone is an idiot.

Most bikers I know are very respectful of 30 and 40 limits and yeah a fair proportion use their discretion in national speed limit areas. Most don’t however do twice the speed limit (often)

Small plates again some will have slightly smaller plates and a tail tidy, not to evade speed cameras but just because they want there pride and joy to look good. Very few people run stupid small plates now as you just get nicked and its not worth it.

Black visors, making them illegal is the most stupid law I can think of at the moment. I wear one and will face the judge rather than be blinded by low sun and crash. I can wear a pair of sunglasses that I can’t lift up or a visor I can. total madness. Carry a clear one with you and you will have to meet a tosser of a copper to nick you.

Race cans, again its the minority with daft load cans that people remember. I removed an Austin racing can from my Aprlia because it was just too loud. Super light and looked really nice. However it was just way too loud annoyed me so bound to annoy others. The Arrow on there now is not legal without the baffle in however an old legal can with the packing blown out will be louder than it. So yeah stupid loud cans are a nightmare and they ruin it for the rest of us.

I have experienced the person who will always follows you on an overtake again I find that annoying. To the point  if it was safe for me and I knew it would be marginal for him I would not overtake. He was the only one of my mates that would do it though.

You haters should try it, as someone else mentioned its the closest thing to flying without flying 🙂

Nobody said that, it’s just that a high proportion are idiots

Provide some evidence for that and I won’t tar you with the same moaning brush. That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

I saw a mountain biker ride past a horse rider at full pelt the other day, totally irresponsible and antisocial. Was he and idiot yes are all mountain bikers idiots of course not.

You are all just jealous because your too scared to come and join us 😀

I am aware of the irony of me making a comments about a whole group of people but, people in the UK are really negative about people having fun doing stuff that they are not involved in. You really don’t get that sort of mentality as much in main land Europe.

I actually agree with you Mike that there are riders who behave in an irresponsible way, but to say its a lot of them is a little unfair.

Its a bit like me saying there are lots of riders in London on fixies with no front brake.

If someones ambition out ways their talent, they are the one who pays the price not you.

And yeah loud exhausts(which I assume is what you mean by illegal parts), I just got back from 4 days at Portimao racetrack where its perfectly legal to run a very load exhaust. I find it bloody annoying and think no need 🙂

I had quite a loud exhaust on my bike (was being used on track) and recently I changed it as it annoyed me let alone others. However one of the reasons people do it is to be noticed by car drivers. Not because all car drivers are idiots but because humans make mistakes and trying making it harder for them to make mistakes makes sense.

Just remember walkers hate you, they think you are irresponsible and ride dangerously, regardless if you do or not. You can slow down to pass them etc, they will still hate you. You just sound like that about motorbikes, try and understand rather than judge for a bit.

Oh and when you break your hip sending that huge drop, I am happy that the NHS I pay for sorts you out. I would rather you lived your life and did something then worry about removing every bit of risk from your life.

Most if not all of the guys I ride with motorbikes, mountain bikes and road bikes are all pretty courteous to others. So yes I do take offence when people imply we are all a bunch of ignorant rude idiots.

Perhaps some of the people riding motorbikes are actually skilled understand the risks and manage them and some are not skilled and don’t manage them.

You mean manage them outside of the traffic laws?

You lot sound like the people talking about cyclists on other websites, should be ashamed of yourselves.

OK then…. Or maybe we can challenge things.

You are reading what you want to read, rather than what is written. I was implying there were good riders and bad riders. Do you ride a motorcycle ? if not maybe you don’t understand whats safe and whats not? Or maybe even what is legal and what is not.

Other than that I am not really sure what your point is caller.

My point was cycling and riding a motorcycle is generally more dangerous than driving a car. Also both rarely end up with anyone but the riders being injured. Its very rare the the “100mph+ missile” actually hurts anyone else, just like its rare a badly ridden Cervelo hurts anyone else other than the lycra clad pilot.

On your last point it sounded more like judging and whining than challenging to be honest.

I saw a really crap bit of cycling this morning, some guy pulled out in front of a van, all cyclist had bikes when they were 12 get middle aged and now they by a carbon Cervelo and its too fast for them

comparing the outcome possibilities of something capable of 100mph+ heavyweight  missile crash against that of a simple bicycle, is just daft

Hence the smiley at the end.

Its funny though as cyclists we probably have a lot in common when it comes to being venerable road users. Yet because its something people are not involved in they feel the need to criticise. Perhaps some of the people riding motorbikes are actually skilled understand the risks and manage them and some are not skilled and don’t manage them. Sounds a lot like the people I see riding pushbikes to me. Like cyclists rarely does anyone involved in an accident come of worse than the biker or the cyclist. However no on here is suggesting that people should stop donning lycra and holding up cars every Sunday when out on their club ride.

You lot sound like the people talking about cyclists on other websites, should be ashamed of yourselves.

I have done 26 trackdays and about 6000 road miles this year so far, so its fair to say I love bikes.

I have 4 bikes ranging from 82bhp to 180bhp

It makes me laugh when people say how terrifying modern bikes are, they are way easier to ride than bikes of 15years ago. Tyre technology is frankly amazing and with modern electronics you pretty much just have to point them in the right direction.

Agree with people I am not into riding in big groups, I have a few friends I like riding with but generally don’t like the faff of big groups.

The old “I would kill myself” phrase makes me laugh most peoples fear and self preservation stops that.

There are two type of people in this world those who ride bikes and those who would love to but are scared 🙂

I saw a really crap bit of cycling this morning, some guy pulled out in front of a van, all cyclist had bikes when they were 12 get middle aged and now they by a carbon Cervelo and its too fast for them 🙂

Edited to add, I agree Sports bikes are rubbish on the road if you have aging hips 🙂

Been with SJD for over ten years. I too think that they have gone down hill a lot and their prices risen way too fast.

So looking to change some time soon, problem is there never seems like an easy time to change.

I’ve flashed my brake lights at tailgaters before – touch the pedal without slowing down.  Sometimes people are just being careless, and in that situation they tend to wake up a bit.

I’ve also done the blocking of the dickhead rep on dual carriageways, but only for a minute or so.  He wasn’t happy.

The thing is, people like that genuinely don’t think they’re doing anything wrong – either dangerous or anti-social.

Haha love that story.

I had a farmer stop the wheel of his trailer behind his tractor on my foot on a hairpin where I stopped to let him around. I didn’t marry him 🙂

I agree its not for everyone, but a lot of people would like it if they actually took the time to increase their skill set, its a lot like mountain biking strangely 🙂

The most important thing taking a newbie on an Alps trip is your attitude more than theirs. You have to understand its not going to be as fun for you and you are not going to be able to press on like you would normally. If you do that everything is golden. So part of it is understanding the person you are with and behaving appropriately.

Instead of saying not sure if you will like it so lets not go. Say its going to be a learning curve and hard in places, but its going to be rewarding and a bit of an adventure.

I have got into situations where I have thought how am I going to get me and my bike out of here. Did I get home and say never doing that again. No me and my mate laugh at it now and its a great story 🙂

“Do you remember the time when we had that real problem in Morocco, we can laugh at it now”

or

“Do you remember when we were too scared to go to Morocco”

I know which camp I would rather be in 🙂

Yeah comms are great and can relieve boredom an be useful if there are any issues, but for overtaking when you can’t see probably the least useful part of having them.

I agree loads of people pass there test ride locally for a few weeks and give up. Maybe if they went on a bit of an adventure with their Dad, rather than being scared to do anything exciting by all the people telling them how dangerous it is, they might not.

The trouble with this country now is people are too cautious, how are young people meant to develop a sense of adventure and confidence when everyone is telling them “oh better not do that you might not like it, or it might be a bit more dangerous than your playstation”

I despair 🙁

craigxxl So how come you think its going to be anymore taxing then riding in Scotland? Within a week he will be dialed into it and having a great time.

I use bike to bike comms with my mate now and it is great and brakes the boredom on motorway slogs, good to change plans on the move etc. Occasionally we will let someone know its clear on a blind corner. I still hate doing it though its not natural and not something to be taken lightly or encouraged really 🙂

Comment was not aimed just at you 🙂

People used to set off on round the world trips on bikes that were expected to brake down, without even all the maps for where they were going let alone a GPS.

I will repeat it really is as easy as:-

Pass test

Buy bike

Ride bike to Ferry

Repeat until Bored or run out of money or time.

Oh and overtakes are entirely safe without bike to bike comms, if you are relying on someone else to tell you its clear then I think you already have the wrong idea.

Am I the only one thinking that quite a few of the comments on this are from people who have never actually toured Europe on a motorcycle 🙂

47BHP on an A2 license I believe.

Everyone suggesting this bike or that bike, as our cheating friend once said “Its not about the bike” it doesn’t matter just get out there and start the adventure. C90 or Ducati Panigale. one won’t be better than the other it will just be a different experience 🙂

People are over thinking this.

Get lad to pass A2 test  (too young for A, but old enough to go to Afghanistan ironically)

Buy suitable bikes.

Book ferry

Ride bikes and have fun. / Repeat until bored,money runs out our you have to go back to work.

If you like maps and planning do a bit of that in the mean time to build the excitement 🙂

Oh another thing I took my mate on a two week Alps tour about 3 months after he passed his test. Initially he found the riding quite stressful and a little intimidating. You don’t get to practice many hairpins training for you test.

By the end of the trip his riding was transformed, hes now a really good rider and he puts that down to touring the Alps. You will do more corners in two weeks in the Alps than a year in the UK 🙂

6 years on we are off again on a long trip and I have to work hard to keep up with him now 🙂

I am biased as I love touring around Europe on my bike, so I am bound to say its a good idea 🙂

As Rachel intimated, its not rocket science, it really is as easy as filling your bike with fuel riding to the ferry and off you go.

Booking.com and air B&B make it super easy these days too. If your camping you will learn as you go and work out your system as you go along.

To have done something like this with my Dad  would be amazing and something you will remember for ever.

Touring on the bike for me is a great stress buster, I am living in the moment and rarely think about back home.

I would not worry about servicing and tyres etc, as has been said europe is not Africa and there is a BMW dealer on every corner 🙂

Don’t worry about having it all worked out its an adventure 🙂 It will all be OK in the end and if its not OK its not the end 🙂

Bazzer

PS can’t wait for my 17day trip end of July 🙂

Oh and answering the OP’s question, Di2 is brilliant and it does have the advantage of being able to shift from the base bar and the extensions as Warton said.

I would not buy a bike without it now.

Don’t suppose you fancy a 56cm Cervelop P3 Di2 instead do you 🙂

I am taking a break from Ironman/TT and fancy a change to a S3 Disk for the summer.

I am currently listening to Radio 6 Music on a Rotel RA-214 that I must have had for getting on 30 years.

aracer its not that simple though is it. Yes if you are going to serve the web page from the pi and your on the same network it might be.

What if he wants it controlled from anywhere with a GSM/4G connection?

Are you going to make them open up a port on their router or use some sort of IOT service to push events to the PI

These things are rarely simple.

Edited to add, even when the customer thinks its simple 🙂

I would not get too hung up on getting someone local unless you have a real need to have someone work on site due to access to hardware etc.

The normal problem with stuff like this is people tend to underestimate how much developing software costs 🙂

Bazzer

I agree with Finbar once you can actually swim front crawl and breath properly a lot of speed comes from doing what you do but harder.

As for coaching I don’t feel (for me at least) one off coaching sessions give much benefit. Yes they will tell you you are dropping your elbow or crossing over. However next time you swim unless someone is reminding you dictating the drills to help correct it, you will revert to type.

For me the most important thing in learning to swim better, is you have to get in the water at least 3 times a week. If you don’t it will be very hard to progress.

I went through a stage of worrying thinking it was my technique that was the big problem. I now subscribe to the swim hard badly philosophy.

This has put me in the middle of the swim times when doing Ironman. So basically good for the general public and pretty crap for a real swimmer 🙂

Bazzer

I love both my slow cooker and my Panasonic bread maker.

On the granary setting its takes 5hrs and makes great bread.

Did a week riding there about 10years ago with a guide.

Brilliant, lovely country and really cool people.

Or just go and do something you do want to do.

I mountain biked for years and due to a change of circumstance it was just not the same. So I did a couple of years doing Ironman triathlon for a change. It was great, now I fancy doing some more mountain biking again.

Just do what you enjoy !!!

I am lucky enough to have a few bikes I have an S1000XR that I do a bit of touring on the Tuono did do that with some Kreiga packs on it but the 80mile tank range got tiresome. However I love it and have not been able to bring myself to part with it. I have done a few trackdays on it too, Portimao and Almeria and it was a right laugh. One year me and mate took road bikes to Almeria (my Tuono) did 4 days then rode back.

I bought the RSV4 for trackdays but then decided it was too lovely to go on the FE lorry. Also I fancied a track bike that was really really low stress to ride. So I bought an ex European Junior Cup CBR650f from Matt at Smallboy.

I have not had so much fun on track for ages. Really loving it and I am convinced it will improve my riding.

I am off to Cartegena mid Feb with No Limits then Almeria for 6 days in March. So excited about riding the little bike 🙂 I have let some mates have a go and they all come back smiling.

Long answer to a short question. RSV4 is a garage ornament at the moment 🙂 Will probably stick it in the van and do a few UK days on it this year at some point. Either that or ride it to the cafe and look at it 🙂

Cheers

Bazzer

PS Saw you post about insurance on Trackday riders too, small world 🙂

Big Aprilia fan here I have a 13 Tuono V4 APRC and a 15 RSV4 factory.

What series/club are you racing with ?

https://www.mustard.co.uk/motorbike-insurance/alternative-cover/short-term-motorbike-insurance/

I have a Powertap G3 on my road bike and a Dual sided Rotor crank based PM on my TT bike.

Powertap is great and its very reliable however its a pain if you want to put a pair of winter wheels on for training.

Rotor obviously does not have this problem however the ANT+ comms seem to drop out more on this than the powertap.

I use it for structured training (trainer road and outside) and I would say for this repeatability is key. You need to have faith in the numbers for any kind of FTP based training.

The absolute numbers are less use than 250W today being 250W tomorrow.

Edited to add

I use a direct drive Kickr turbo too and the Powertap hub based PM is obviously useless for that. So that can be a consideration.