“It irks me because designers/builders claim it takes the stress away from the seatstay/dropout, and removes the need for a brace between the stays. “

In fairness, they probably know more about what works and what doesn’t, than you or I do. And There seem to be many builders and companies who do just this, so I’d imagine it’s been tried and tested sufficiently. I take your point about caliper compatibility though, that is something to consider.

‘Custom rack’- would be very nice, yet very expensive, especially in Titanium, and as racks are things that tend to get bashed around/are a bit vulnerable, I think standard mounts would be more sensible, although I am contemplating having a custom rack made.

Turboferret; is that your bike? It’s beautiful. I suppose a built-in rack would be a minimal weight penalty, and save weight over a bolt-on version. Definitely something to consider. I’d be a little concerned about it getting bashed around though.

“And drop the attitude.”

I don’t have an ‘attitude’, other than knowing what I want. And that turning down any business just because a customer seems a bit ‘fussy’, is bad practice. Thankfully, no-one I’ve spoken to so far seems to think I am in any way fussy or annoying, and have been only to helpful to listen and give advice. I think a few posters on here cold learn something from them.

“With respect to rack mounts, you can fit Axiom racks to conventional disk braked bikes as they fit with an “L” shaped bracket which hangs the rack over the back.”

Not quite as elegant a solution, but a possibility, yes. I’d be mindful of extra fittings shaking loose though, and concerned about the rigidity of the set-up.

“I’m not a fan of calipers between the stays.”

Again, I’d be interested to read your thoughts on this. Quite a number of frames, custom and off the peg, have such mounts, so I’m sure they can be perfectly effective. I am considering aesthetics, and this does currently look like a good solution.

“dismissing brant’s input because he doesn’t actually wield the blow torch seems a bit like telling Gordon Murray you won’t buy his car because he didn’t personally slop the resin onto the carbon and wheel the chassis into an auto-clave.”

Personally, I feel that Brant’s approach isn’t one that’s going to attract my business. I’m sure it’s very successful with many others, yet Brant isn’t one of those who I’ll be talking to regarding having a frame built. I would say that perhaps just a little bit of investment in a simple website might, in my opinion, give off a more ‘professional’ approach, which in turn would instil faith in the products, but it seems Brant is’t interested in such attention to detail. That’s fine. As for ‘dismissing his input’; I’ve merely stated I would rather get advice from someone who actually builds Titanium frames, than someone who doesn’t. I think that’s perfectly fair really.

“don’t choose a brake mounting solution until you’ve thought about cable/hose routing and don’t fit a cable-operated disk caliper to a mount in that position.”

This is interesting. Care to elaborate?

“it’s a custom frame, why not just mount the rack further up the seat stays?”

It all depends on the rack design. Currently looking at Tubus Ti and Blackburn. But keeping things more ‘standard’ gives more options. The Tubus Fly looks very nice, but might put the panniers a bit high. The Logo Titan might be a better bet, although it’s a bit heavier. But as I’m not planning on doing any ‘heavy’ touring, the Fly might be perfect.

“imo the design(ergo the designer) is more important than the builder.”

I like to see it as a collaboration between people with different, yet complimentary skills. I’m currently building a ‘scrapbook’ of possible features/details, which I can present to whoever will be building the frame, for discussion. They may tell be that X isn’t possible, but Y and Z are. Somewhat like how designers, architects and engineers work together to realise projects. I have a good idea of what I want, the builder will be able to advise on possible issues and alternative solutions.

“tweeking an existing frame with their ideas is how my 2 buddies ended up with a bike that was unridable”

I’d essentially be wanting existing geometry to be replicated, knowing that it will work for me, but be open to suggestions as to how translating this into Titanium will work best. So it’s quite a conservative build really.

“This whole thread seems to have been a bit like that from the OP though.”

I think a few people have lost sight of the fact that it’ll be my bike, not theirs, and are unable/unwilling to be more objective about things. Seems to be a lot of opinions, yet not so many actual experiences.

Currently thinking about how to accomodate mudguards and a pannier rack around a disc mount. Many designs make this very difficult r even impossible,but there are solutions round this:

“I haven’t made a frame since my last one in 1988.”

So you’ve never made a Titanium frame? Ok. I’ll get advice from people who actually have, thanks. I’ve no doubt you’ve got lots of experience in ordering and importing Far-Eastern manufactured goods, but that’s not what I want. Thanks for your input though.

“I’m a bicycle designer. I design frames, and then work with fabricators with detailed specifications and dimensional drawings to get them to weld and form things to our agreed specification.”

Which is pretty much what I’ll be doing. Conversations with actual frame builders I’ve had so far, suggest what I want isn’t actually that difficult, so it will be quite easy for them to work with my ideas. Which is encouraging at this stage. We’ll be working with a pretty tried and tested ‘design’, so it’s more about tweaking bits here and there and ‘personalising’ it really. I’ve been looking into anodised graphics on the frame for example; Firefly do this, and I’ve learned this could be possible with my frame. Utterly indulgent, but why not?

During my research and talking to others, I am now going to be having some conversations with a lad who’s just starting out in (steel) frame-building, with a view to setting something up with him and possibly others. Potentially a very exciting project!

So, you’ve personally made thousands of titanium frames then Brant?

I will be using a retired frame as a reference, as it’s a near-perfect fit, and has ideal geometry. The builder can use that as a starting point, and work from there.

“You’ll get the best outcome if you have a clear idea of what you want and then trust the builder to turn those ideas into something good.”

I’ve been saying this al along. People have either ignored me, misunderstood, or assumed I don’t know what I’m talking about. Which is their problem, not mine.

I almost wish I did want a steel frame, as there are so many more options than Titanium. Companies like Field, Saffron, Donhou and many others make some gorgeous frames.

http://www.fieldcycles.com/gallery

Whereas you’re simply annoying because you’ve nothing constructive to add. I’d be grateful if just those with relevant information/experience posted here, thanks.

I think some of you have misunderstood me. I’m not after someone ‘just because they’re a bit handy with a welding torch’ to ‘weld some pipes together’, I want someone to turn my ideas into reality. In fact, one builder I’ve spoken to today was very enthusiastic about the project, and said that my idea is actually quite simple, and has a lot of scope to do something really quite special with. Which is exactly the kind of thing I want to hear. I don’t want someone who’s only interested in selling me what they want to make, which is something a few others I know who’ve had (steel) frames made, have come up against. Which is why it would be interesting to read other peoples’ experiences. Some builders start with a pretty blank canvas, and are very receptive to others’ ideas, whilst others use their own templates from which to build a bike, and are reluctant to deviate from that. The point of this thread is to try to gain some insight into this.

“TBH, if I was a frame builder and you approached me after I’d read this thread I would politely turn you down.”

But you’re not, and the ones I’ve contacted so far have been very positive indeed. And quite frankly, if you’d turn down £2-3000 worth of business just because the customer’s a bit fussy or annoying, you’re an idiot.

I was hoping for a few more actual experiences of having a frame made, but I appreciate that there probably aren’t that many people who’ve actually had this. I do feel a bit trepidatious about the whole thing, but excited as well.

“You should try the boy at thorn cycles.

Hes also stuck in the 90s”

The ’90s was a good era for cycling innovation and development. Aheadsets, suspension, V + disc brakes, development of new materials such as Titanium and Carbon Fibre, and the Shimano sealed UN series bottom brackets. Much of what has come since, has relied on a lot of marketing bullshit to convince people that they ‘need’ this latest whatever. Whilst I’m sure some developments have benefited a small number of people who may push their equipment to limits beyond the capability of most of us mortals, the reality is that a lot of what existed is perfectly fine for 99% of cyclists. Companies like Thorn have been producing bikes that have been successfully ridden in all corners of the globe, so I’d say they know what they are doing, pretty much.

Brant; have you made many Titanium frames?

“Fwiw i know a few folk who have gone down the custom route who knew what angles and top tube lengths etc…..

I know two of them ended up with unridable bikes as a result of pig headedness with the builder(serotta) because they “know what they want””

Then obviously they must have got something wrong, somewhere. I’ll be basing my requirements on what I know to work for me. If the builder has any ideas about how to possibly improve things, then I’m willing to listen. If they want to radically depart from what I’m asking them to do, then I’ll take my money elsewhere. It’s my bike, no theirs.

I won’t be needing a tapered steerer, as it will offer absolutely no real benefits for me and the type of riding the bike is intended for, plus I already have a very expensive and brand new headset to fit, and I don’t see the point of wasting money to buy something new that I don’t need. 1 1/8″ is perfectly fine, and has been for me for well over 20 years of riding. I have ridden and owned bikes with all manner for head tube sizes, and there’s really not much difference between them, often none that I can tell anyway. At 10stone, I’m not going to need the extra ‘stiffness’ that a tapered head tube offers, and am inclined to go with what this writer says about them:

http://www.singularcycles.com/thoughts-on-tapered-steerers/

I’ll also be sticking to a tapered bottom bracket, as I’ve found they last a lot longer than newer external types. Call me a luddite, but having owned and ridden countless bikes throughout the last 25+ years, I’ve got a fair idea of what suits me.

“Go on, be the first STW to get a Firefly.”

If they were based in Boston, Lincs they’d begetting a cal! I’ll be ‘phoning a fair few builders after the bank holiday, and try to get the ball rolling on this project. it may take some time!

“Save yer cash, go for steel!”

I don’t want a steel frame.

“If man wants a Ti bike , let him have a Ti bike.”

I want a Ti bike!

“you probably need to have a pretty strong idea both of what you want,”

I do. I just need a frame builder to turn my ideas into reality. I’d be paying them to work out tube sizes etc. For a full custom frame, I have a few ideas for extra/quirky bits and pieces, so I’ll need to be able to have efficient communication between myself and the builder. Yes, to ‘harangue’ them, after al, it is my money!

So far, I have 3 options:

Second hand, and adapt where necessary (cheapest)

New off the peg, get as close to ideal as possible (seems difficult)

Full custom. Expensive, but most likely to end up with exactly what I want.

It could end up costing a relatively large amount of money, but in the grand scheme of things, £2-3,000 on a one-off bicycle frame isn’t a huge amount, compared to other life expenses (we’ve recently had new windows fitted in our home at an astronomical cost (they had to be ‘custom made!)). And I could quite easily spend that amount on a crap car. The bike would give me far more pleasure though, so it’s ‘value’ would be much higher.

I haven’t bought a new bike in 15 years. I figured it’s time I treated myself!

Some lovely examples shown; those Firefly frames are gorgeous. Boston Mass. is a long way to go to have a frame made though!

Travers are essentially cutting out the middle man and offering a full UK warranty. Which is definitely worth a premium over an XACD or suchlike. How much more so is another matter.

A bit of searching earlier revealed a Seven Cycles Expat SL. Very, very nice, but £3,500 for the frame! Too expensive for an off the peg frame, for me. Strangely no geometry details anywhere. US built Titanium frames seem extraordinarily expensive. Making a custom Titchmarsh/Enigma etc look like real bargains!

“it won’t be a ‘simple’ purchase”

Of course it won’t be a ‘simple purchase’! I want a bike which no-one appears to make. Hence why I will probably need it custom-made. And I appreciate there will probably be one or two issues with the design and production, as it will be a one-off rather than a tried and tested model. But I want to be confidant of the builder in listening to my specific needs, if I’m paying them lots of money to make something for me. The reason for preferring a UK builder is that if anything crops up during the build, we can discuss it and find a suitable solution, rather than the builder doing something I may not be happy with. I’m prepared to spend what to many people would be a significant amount of money on a bicycle frame. Therefore, I’d like it done right.

Following further communication with Travers, and more consideration, I must say that some of my comments about Travers’ ‘Chinese’ products are perhaps a little unfair, and that my earlier comments could have been considered a bit rude. This wasn’t my intention at all, so I’d like to apologise for any offence I may have inadvertently caused. I was merely trying to be honest in my opinions, but maybe I was a little naive and have shifted my position slightly. This is a good thing I think.

I am grateful for advice on steel frames, and I’m sure there are many more options available, but I really want a Titanium frame. I was hoping for more ‘real world’ experiences, so look forward to reading about anyone’s experience with custom Titanium frames.

I hear you, Travers, and I understand your point of view. I still think your prices are too much for me personally, for what is still a foreign made product. No offence meant at all. Maybe with more consideration, I could be persuaded, but it’s difficult to ignore the low prices of XACD stuff, or the many positive reviews of their products. Without seeing both yours and their frames side by side, i’m sure you appreciate that it’s impossible for me to make any kind of quality comparison.

Turboferret; I did find that blog interesting. Who is the UK contact for XACD, as I think it’s worth looking into .

So far, Ted James stands out as someone producing pretty unique stuff, with lots of potential for something very esoteric. There are a few framebuilders out there who seem loathe to listen to customers’ needs, and instead try to sell what they themselves feel is right. With many years of bike riding behind me, I do feel I have possibly the best idea of what I need though.

“Er, so you only want to support a UK builder who can custom make you something for the same price as a Chinese-factory ‘custom’?”

No. You’ve got me all wrong. Besides, Travers isn’t a builder, rather an importer. The frames are made in China, same as XACD, but cost twice as much or more. They may well be ‘better’, but they are still made using cheaper labour than in the UK. I don’t see how they are anywhere near the value of am XACD frame or a UK built frame. I certainly don’t expect a UK builder to make me something anywhere near the price of an XACD frame, as labour costs etc are much higher here. I always try to choose ‘local’ products wherever possibe, even if this means paying more. I’m fully aware that a UK built custom Titanium frame could probably cost me £2000 or more. An XACD frame could cost as low as £400 according to my research, and reviews are very positive. It’s certainly a viable option.

“There’s not cheap and then there is £3-4k!! “

I would fully expect to spend that on a high-end road bike or mtb, so it’s not a problem. And as you say, Titchmarsh looks real quality. I have considered XACD, but a bit wary of any possible issues as mentioned before, although the relatively very low price might surely be worth a gamble. I’d very much like to be involved as much as possible in the whole process though, hence preferring a UK builder. Tichmarsh and Baldwin are both in Yorkshire, so it would be nice to have a mini-break to visit them.

“I think given your requirements I think you’d get a better bike built in the UK if you went with steel”

As before, I want to save weight, and am happy to pay for top quality workmanship, so can’t see your argument really. I’m sure there are some poor steel framebuilders out there as well. I have considered 953, but prices are getting towards Titanium costs, so not such good value for me.

“Enigma were not very helpful (borderline obstructive) during the whole episode ,hence why I was brought in to assist the customer.”

In what way where they ‘obstructive’? I do know that Rohloffs are a bit tricky to accomodate perfectly.

“Can I point out that my frames are not made by “XACD””

I have no issue with the quality of Chinese-made frames, and your bikes do look very nice. But I’d prefer to support UK builders, and ca. £1400-1500 for a frame when I could get something from XACD for half that or even less, does seem overpriced, sorry.

“There is Titchmarsh and Baldwin the uk….but they won’t be cheap.”

I wasn’t expecting a custom Titanium frame to be cheap! They make some lovely looking bikes, so I’ll be contacting them, thanks. Interesting to hear your experiences of Enigma; what issues did you have with them, out of interest?

“tbh Pointless to restrict yourself to an ‘old’ standard just because you’ve a few bits lying around.”

Not really; the 1 1/8″ standard will be around for a long time, just as the 1″ standard still is. And why waste quality components when they can be used?

“Pact,Travers,Kingdom,Burls,Quoroz etc all use overseas builders.”

Just had an email exchange with Travers, and I think they are overpriced considering the cost of an XACD frame. I’d like to help support UK frame builders too.

“You’ve just described my Van Nicholas Amazon.”

The current model uses an internal headset, and a large diameter seat tube, plus the ETT is too short in my size, so unfortunately, no good to me. Same situation with most off the peg frames it seems.

Thanks for all the replies and advice. Much appreciated. I’ve looked at Enigma and some others so far, just wondering if anyone has any real experience of having a custom Titanium frame made?

I have no problem with steel, but I do want to save weight as much as possible, and I probably wont be doing any hardcore expeditions to the middle of nowhere, so not too worried about possible breakage. Talking more like touring in the UK, Europe and maybe supported trips elsewhere. I want a standard headtube, as I have a Chris King headset plus a few other good quality headsets spare, so enough to last the lifetime of the bike. I’m pretty sure of the geometry I need, as it’s based on an existing alu framed bike.

If I do go the custom route, then I will want it made in the UK, as I’ll want to be as involved in it’s production as much as possible, and be covered if there are any issues with the final product. I do know of someone who had a custom frame made in China, which was great, but it had a 27.0mm seat tube, due to an error on the builder’s part. I want to avoid potential problems like that!

There are one or two ‘custom builders’ who use overseas builders under their own brand, again, I will avoid those for the above reasons.

traversbikes; I will send you an email, thanks.

rankbadjin; also will send you an email.

And the Tripster has a tapered headtube, so no good for me.

Thanks for the reponses.

The Tripster is too short. Triton bikes looks interesting, but I was hoping to be able to deal with a UK frame builder if possible. Pact bikes website looks dodgy somehow.