Thanks JonE and Ben. Will check those out.

Ben; how long have you been making bike frames?

“Or maybe they are realistic and don’t have money, time or resources to throw at someones hobby?”

No, they are actually idiots. They could be making some decent money from running welding courses, and the initial outlay would be relatively very small. They have perfectly suited yet redundant space they are currently paying for, which could have been used. And far from being ‘someone’s hobby’, it would ultimately be complementary to the business. But their loss could well be our gain.

Bicycle manufacturing used to be one of the things this country excelled at. Exploitation of cheap overseas labour may have helped kill it off, but it’s good to see a resurgence of the industry, even in a relatively very small way. And I’d love to be part of that. I might of course never be any good at it, but it would be nice to try!

Another thumbsup for the Bicycle Academy. Thanks tang.

Bencooper; I intend to learn a bit about welding first; there are some local education places that run courses, and if we can get some workshop space, then the lad I know can teach me and others. I think he may have done the Dave Yates course. I can get hold of a never-ending supply of old steel frames to take apart and use as practice materials. There’s a very small possibility that we can buy out an existing bike recycling service too. So the longer view is to look at setting up something that can potentially offer training and creative workshop space, as well as eventually bespoke frame building. But it’s all in the ideas stage at the moment; what I have to do is gain experience and knowledge.

I’m not looking to produce anything amazing, more to learn the basics and gain a foundation from which to build. I appreciate it will take years of dedication and effort to get really good at it. I’d just like to be able to understand what’s involved, for the experience it will give me.

Then I can tell someone in China to build me exactly what I want. ;-)

For a small room, and something you can plug into a computer, the you can’t go wrong with these:

http://www.harmankardon.co.uk/harman-kardon-product-detail_uk/hk-soundsticks-iii_-new_packaging.html

An old design now, but still some of the best computer speakers you can buy. Currently £100 at PD World.

Why not just get a simple Cateye adapter and rear light?

£3.99.

“Really? There are many, many, many, many more malwares, spybots, keyloggers etc on PCs than there are on smart phones.”

Not on my computer there aren’t.

“Chromecast?”

Would that work on a standard computer screen? IE, not a tv, as they already have such technology built-in.

Wow, shaggy; they are gorgeous bikes! How long have you been building your own? That’s a very good endorsement of the course!

“The course taught me that it would take many hours of practice before I’d able to make a nice job of welding or brazing thin bicycle tubes. However, I suspect most people who enrol on a bike-building course have at least some metalwork and welding experience.”

I was thinking about how it might be a good idea to learn how to weld stuff first. This lad can teach me, but we need somewhere for him to do this (his current employers are idiots who can’t understand just what a great idea it would be, to invest a bit of money in this, and what great potential dividends it could produce). My home workshop is full of very flammable wood.

“Anyway, I thought you were the toast of the framebuilding world and everyone wanted to work with you?”

No, apparently that’s Brant. ;-)

“So either it’s a serious hobby, you can convince a few mates to club together to do it, or you have very deep pockets it’s a serious commitment just for one or two frame.”

I am considering helping set up a very talented lad I know to be able to create stuff in metal, and hopefully frames, so I’m currently thinking about a workshop space. He’d be able to teach basic welding, which could help to fund development. And my pockets aren’t that deep, but there’s funds available.

“Bike academy make you build a bike for Africa”

B.A do courses where you keep the bike; you’re talking about the ‘Classic’ frame building course I think. But that seems like fun anyway, and a very worthwhile use of time.

“Basically smartphones are highly portable computers “

My wife says her little Samsung has virtually replaced her laptop (and she’d even bought a new one recently to replace the ageing fire hazard Vaio thing). She only really does emails, Whatsapp/Skype, BBC radio player/iPlayer anyway, so it can do all those things. The only limitation for her is the small screen size. The ability to link with a larger screen would be good.

I find mine astonishing; I use it for all sorts of things, including the above, as well as video, compass, maps, flashlight, music player (through wireless speakers), and although I’ve got a fancy DSLR with lenses, the camera for still photos is surprisingly good.

I don’t really think I want more features to be honest; I am very wary of things like NFC and automatic wireless communication with other devices. I don’t do anything that I want to be secure, such as online shopping, on it.

Won’t be Titanium; I wasn’t thinking that at all. Just would be nice to make something I could use, nothing fancy. But overall to learn how to do it. That’s the fun bit.

“what I don’t get is the people who value price over service/quality/all else, going to different indistinguishable faceless national chains, to save pence on a tin of beans (from the same maker), spending more than they have saved to do so.”

The improvement in quality of life in being able to manly shop locally is something you can’t put a price on. We shop when we need to, buy only what we will consume, get stuff fresher and better quality , and save a load of time by not travelling further afield. Our snobby (quite high-earning) neighbours won’t shop locally (I think it’s a bit too ‘ethnic’ for them), so travel to a Sainsburys and/or use delivery services. They spend an absolute fortune, buy loads of shit they don’t need/consume, and generate more than 3 times the waste we do. They don’t enjoy good relations with hardly anyone else in the local community, then complain they feel ‘isolated’. We leave them to it. They’ve recently been using Uber for taxis, instead of the very reliable and inexpensive local firms, and have been let down several times.

And for some reason, despite all their penny-pinching, they are always moaning about not having any money. They still owe us for covering them for some recent external works!

Cost of everything, value of nothing….

True, but I always seem to want to use good tools more often. I need to replace a couple of wood planes; they are fairly cheap and not that great, but ‘good’ ones are very expensive, and I’m wondering if I can justify the outlay really. It’s not so much the money, but I don’t want them sitting there unused.

“What makes me laugh is the folk who go to each and every supermarket as they each have the cheapest bread/beans/foie gras/whatever. And spend more than the amount they save on petrol in doing so.

Similarly folk who drive miles across town to save a penny a litre on fuel…”

We try to shop as locally as possible. Whilst this may (arguably) cost a little more, we find that developing good relations with local businesses results in getting a better quality of service. We can ‘phone our butcher or fishmonger to order anything specific if necessary, and most of the shops often give us discounts/deals, so it works out much better in the long run. We believe this helps make for a better local community, and the ‘value’ of that is unquantifiable.

“I’m getting a bit f*cked off with the posts in this thread.. can some completely non talented people please dilute it with some shit offerings as I’m feeling a bit inadequate here, with my complete lack of talent at making stuff!”

I know how you feel. Just when you think ‘oh, I’ll post up that drinks coaster I made out of a piece of scrap wood, that took me about 3 weeks to finish’, some bugger comes along with ‘oh here’s a tractor/house/space shuttle I knocked up this weekend, out of a few bits and pieces I had lying around’.

I can’t even work out how to post up pics!

“I do have an issue with Nike Air as they have no sporting heritage”

Nonsense. The inclusion of an air pocket in the sole of sports shoes pretty much revolutionised that industry, with every major manufacturer attempting their own versions/alternatives, mainly in vain. Nike Air trainers have been around since 1979.

And one famous basketball player was even named after the shoes, Michael Nike Air Jordan:

“when in Rome“

+

“as the Italians would”

Oh dear. Tsk tsk tsk…

“I don’t think Nike Air of any kind are acceptable on an adult ever!! Non-Air Nikes are okay but only if participating in sport.”

I really don’t understand the vehemence by some, towards wearing trainers. A decent pair of trainers are far comfier and practical than a lot of other footwear, and a lot lighter than ‘outdoors’ type boots, a lot of which look shit anyway. And there’s trainers and there’s trainers;

My most recent trainers are these:

And I fancy a pair of these:

I’m 43. AndI really don’t give a ****.

13 years, recently had it redecorated in exactly the same colours as before (if it ain’t broke…). Added some nice but random bits of furniture over time. There is no cohesion or consistency. But all our visitors say they love how it looks. We like it and it’s very comfortable.

Currently selling another house; estate agents advised giving it a lick of paint, but it’s just not worth the hassle for the limited amount extra it might bring in. Whoever buys it will want to do their own thing anyway (it’s very much stuck in the era in which it was built, post war), and to be honest, it’s sad that it will lose it’s character. I can imagine the next owners will do all manner f hideous ‘improvements’ to the place. It won’t be our problem by then though.

I’m having that conversation with myself at the moment; custom frame build v off the peg. £2-3,000 hand made in the UK, or as low as £500 or so made in a Chinese factory. Trying to quantify the difference between the two ends of the scale is silly, because it ignores all sorts of other factors, such as supporting UK industry and economy, lowering carbon foot print of product, and the ‘value’ of having something totally unique to you. Obviously, a more restricted budget would play a bigger factor here, but the ‘value’ here for me goes beyond just the money.

“I don’t buy cheap power tools anymore for the same reason. They taste shit.”

A cheap tool used seldom, is poorer value than an expensive one used often. The ‘expensive’ Festool plunge saw I bought recently is so much better than the quite frankly scary Makita one I’d been using, to the extent that I’ll be using it a lot more often. So, much better ‘value’.

“I don’t think I’ve ever thrown an innertube away until the cost of the patches on it exceeded the cost of the tube”

I throw them away when there’s more patch than tube!

On the dual air Rebas, I find if you put a little bit more (5-10 psi) in the negative air chamber, it makes them feel a lot plusher. Not too much as this could reduce the available travel.

And if you’re over 30 anyway, why are you worried about how you look?|

If you’ve got past 30, and still haven’t figured out what suits you and how to dress properly, then it’s too late I’m afraid. If you’re trying to look ‘cool’, then you’ll fail, as that’s something that can only come naturally. You could try to dress exactly the same way as someone who does look ‘cool’, and fail miserable. The best thing is to just wear what makes you feel comfortable. At least you’ll feel comfortable, and not as awkward as a chav in a cheap suit up before the beak.

The best way to be, is to look like you don’t give a ****. Be that in a 3-piece suit, or old work gear. And not to give a shit what others think of you.

Well, I do like the Firefly bikes. Too far away though! Why not get one yourself?

“Just wondering the reasons behind posting video links… like – this is a really terrible song, have a listen!?!”

Well, I doubt any of us would have know about Roter Stern’s entry (I can’t get over how absolutely, monumentaly shit that ‘song’ is!) without a video, although I agree Gangam Style needed no introduction.

This is really nasty:

I think the playing of it to prisoners of war is banned under the Geneva Convention.

Thanks Turboferret! Top man!

Yes, I can’t help wondering how flexy that rear end might be. But it’s certainly an interesting idea. Other ‘integrated rack’ designs tend to look quite chunky, and utilitarian. I suppose it is a tricky thing to do right, if you want a lightweight frame, hence why separate racks are probably a better option really.

I really think Roter Stern actually wins this! That is truly beyond awful. In fact it may be the worst bit of ‘music’ I’ve ever heard.

My vote:

I’m not normally a violent man, but I’d happily batter this bloke in the face with a baseball bat with a brick stuck on the end:

****.

YGM.

“you’re assuming that everyone who disagrees with you is “antagonising” or otherwise unqualified to comment”

I’m not. But there are a few individuals whose input has been little other than to try to antagonise. I’ll be ignoring them from now on, unless they have something constructive to offer. I think that’s fair enough.

“that’s not going to make a great impression when people who actually do this stuff professionally are offering you free advice.”

So far, I’ve had only positive conversations with ‘people who actually do this stuff professionally’. Most seemed very keen to undertake the work. And so far, no-one who ‘actually does this stuff professionally’ (ie actually build frames from Titanium) has commented on this thread. It’s interesting how the conversations with people who ‘actually do this stuff professionally’ have differed quite significantly from those on here.

“I sincerely wish you all the best with your build and look forward to reading the rest of the story.”

Thanks. I’m sure it will be a very interesting journey!

“Don’t underestimate braking forces on the road. An Enduro bike, or even a DH bike is braking from 25mph and limited by the traction of the trail surface. And the speed is continuously scrubbed off by the rough trail doing a lot of the work. A road bike you’ll be braking from 50mph+, with far more grip, and you lose almost no energy to the roughness of the road, and if carrying panniers you’ll be carrying 20% more weight too.”

I’ve used 140mm discs on the rear on an MTB (I was a bit lighter then though!), and a 180mm rotor on the front is still more than enough for me off road. I take your point though re carrying luggage, so would probably use a 160mm disc, although I’ve used V-brakes with no issues with panniers in the past. I wouldn’t imagine my max laden weight would be more than 80kg, so I won’t be needing quite the stopping power a heavier person would.

“But…why not have the rack incorporated into the frame rather than an accessory? That would be the most “elegant” solution.”

It’s definitely a consideration, as I’ve said earlier. The already mentioned English bikes have a very nice take on it:

“Which frame builder are you going to use?”

Not sure yet, although I have one or two ‘favourites’ so far, based on the conversations I’ve had with them. Definitely won’t be using on company, as their attitude was rather condescending and it seemed they weren’t interested in deviating from their own limited palette of designs. As it’s actually a rather simple design brief ultimately, it looks like it will come down to whoever can sort out the fine details the best. I won’t be naming names just yet, but will be making a decision in the next couple of weeks or so, and get some money down on it. Considering what’s involved with a custom build, I think the actual costs are pretty reasonable actually, certainly when considered relative to many other items.

“I only sort the cable runs on my steel frames once I have a complete frame and dummy parts build to experiment with.”

This is very good advice. I have been thinking about what components will be used, and any possible alternatives that might come into play. This is something I will of course be discussing with the frame builder.

“Still, that’s the advantage of going to someone with no/little experience “

I’m not going to anyone with ‘no/little experience’, I’m going to be using the services of a framebuilder/s with many years of building frames behind them.

“you … get all grumpytrousers with anyone who dares disagree with you.”

This isn’t actually true, but if you want to think that, go ahead. I’ve actually taken several points raised by other posters, on board. Yes, I have had different opinions with certain individuals, but as it’s going to be MY bike not theirs, I’m entitled to do so. One or two posters have suggested ‘don’t do this or that’ without actually explaining why. Some of the ‘advice’ on this thread is contrary to what several actual frame builders have advised, therefore I’m inclined to go with what people who actually make bicycle frames advise, rather than with those who ave no experience of this.

“You’re set on a course which will ultimately get you exactly the bike you ask for, of this I have no doubts, but that’s a world away from the bike you actually want. Have a think on that.”

You have no idea what ‘course’ I’m on, the conversations I’ve had with various skilled and experienced people, the knowledge and experience I already have from working in the cycle industry, or indeed anything about me other than what you’ve decided to interpret on this one thread. Your only input to this thread appears to be to try to antagonise me. Have a think on that.

“you want a money-is-no-object do-everything frame that’ll potentially set you back several thousands of pounds and last you for the best part of the next two decades, and yet are basing immutable design decisions on random components you happen to have lying around. Seriously?”

Yes. You may think that’s a ‘risk’, but it’s one that I’m willing to take. I’m basing such choices on what I know to work for me personally. I have a far better idea of what that is, than you do.

“you don’t really know what you want. “

I have a pretty good idea, backed up by several people who know about framebuilding. It’s the fine details I’m trying to get worked out. This thread has been very helpful in certain ways, and I understand that on the internet, you will always get those who think they know better, and need to express their egos a bit. Fortunately, I’m able to filter out the wheat from the chaff.

Ok. I’d like to put this nonsense to bed. I appreciate any positive input from those with ideas and experience of having a frame made, and for those who simply want to shout ‘you’re wrong’ at me, I suggest you find another outlet for your energies. Thanks.

“it might be expensive doing it all in Ti, there isn’t any reason why the black part shouldn’t be aluminium to reduce the cost”

Good point. Definitely something to consider. Of course, certain dropout designs may be patented, so other builders may be prevented from legally using/copying the same design.

“Adding V-brake mounts seems a little counter-intuitive to me if starting with a blank canvas and designing in disc mounts. They look very ugly if not used, far more so than not using a calliper brake mount for example.”

Yeah, it’s a conundrum. But as I’ve said, I have some very nice V-brake options, as well as a lovely set of Hope/Mavic wheels which I’d like to continue using. A disc brake mount won’t look too obtrusive or ugly if I’m using v-brakes, and gives an option for the future.

“Post mount got to be the way, and if you want 140mm or 160mm or 180mm etc make sure that it’s designed for the rotor size you want.”

Probably 160mm maximum really. Won’t need as much braking power as something like an enduro style MTB for example. Maybe even 140mm on the rear, as I’m not that heavy. Point about post mount noted.

People could offer thoughts and experiences rather than being deliberately antagonistic. I’d be interested in looking at cable/hose routing options, types of braze on for mudguards, bottle cages etc. I think a bottle opener is essential:

Fascinated by this mad dropout as on a friend’s Surly Troll, allowing all sorts of wheel/hub combinations, but it looks heavy and a bit overkill.

Really like this design from Shand, utilising a modular dropout system which can be changed for a Rohloff hub fitting. Very versatile, but I suspect would come very expensive in Titanium.

It’s a very neat and tidy looking set up though. Another thing I need to consider, is whether to use post mount or ISO disc mounts. Most calipers seem to be of the former these days, so maybe better to use them, as I’d rather not be faffing with adapters and stuff. Any thoughts on this?

“And isn’t getting a frame made out of titanium with features such as the brake optionality so it can be repaired anywhere a bit counter intuitive?”

I’m agonising over this. I have XTR and Avid Ultimate V-brake options, and v-brakes are pretty ubiquitous these days, so there’s greater chance I’ll be able to find spare bits in an emergency. This would of course necessitate wheels utilising rims with a braking surface, but there’s little or no issues or weight penalty there, so not a problem. I could have removable v-brake pivots, although this would still present an aesthetic compromise.