I’ve only come back to respond to this:

Alarm bells started to ring…

None of this is true.

Titchmarsh; you have issues mate. You took umbrage with an image I used with you in it; not an image over which you have copyright, and which is in the public domain anyway. I did not use it to defame or disrespect you in any way, whatever you may think. You’ve had the opportunity to discuss things in private, but instead have brought them onto here. Your choice, but you only found the thread by googling your own name, then fished for potential business on here. You had the chance for a commission and have now turned it down. Your decision, but to distort and speak about private communications on here is pathetic. You’re not a person to be trusted; now everyone can see that. I could speak about things you’ve said, but I won’t stoop to your level.

Anyway, I wish you health in life. Hope things work out for you in the future.

Well, that took an unexpected turn! :lol:

Looks like I’ve dodged a bullet here, and avoided a potentially very expensive mistake. So, thank you, Titchmarsh, for all your time and help.

I’m going to leave it there, as there’s really no point in continuing this. I suggest others do the same.

Thanks.

I’m going to get a friend to show me some basics of tube welding, as the FE college only do sheet materials.

With the internet, it’s certainly much easier to teach yourself than it used to be. Worth bearing in mind, though, that just because framebuilding can be self-taught doesn’t make it easy – most of what separates me from me 20 years ago isn’t learning more “stuff”, it’s practice.

Of course. Or you can just use cheap labour in the far east. :wink:

Dan; stop wasting time with these idiots, and pick up the phone! :lol:

I’d love to compare your efforts of ‘designing’..

Actually, I really must go and carry on with a commission I’m doing for someone. And then sit down later and ‘design’ another piece that someone else has commissioned. Not related to bikes sadly, but I won’t ask you to reciprocate. I don’t need to prove my credentials on here, as I’m not selling anything on this forum (as advertising would be against forum rules ;-) ).

It’s easy to think you’re right when a large chunk of your information is from your own imagination.

I say ‘imagination’; it’s actually experience of being involved in the design and production of a range of products and services, from jewellery, ornaments and furniture, to elements of graphic design, as well as some photography. Possibly different in terms of actual processes, but I have a rudimentary grasp of the process of designing and manufacturing things. :D

Not quite sure what you imagined that I imagined.

As I said; time to go and make stuff. See you all later.

Excellent post, jamie bkc. I don’t agree with much of it, but thanks for taking the time to post it. Far more positive an input than some on here.

…and we’re back to you still smiting from getting your arse kicked on the other thread.

I find your opinion rather amusing. I hadn’t realised it was a ‘fight’. :lol:

The UK has a shrinking vibrant and diverse industrial base

FTFY.

What’s wrong with dividing the skill set? Why does the same person that designs need to be the same person that builds? I’ll bet RJ Mitchell was shit with a welders torch, and I reckon IK Brunel probably couldn’t hammer a rivet

The Victorians were surprisingly versatile in their abilities. I’d imagine they probably spent quite a bit of time in workshops, tinkering. They didn’t have CAD and FSA technologies to assist them in those days.

And they didn’t live in homes furnished by IKEA….

Do you understand what brant/travers/cotic do when they design a frame and commission someone to build it?

Sorry that was rhetorical, the answer is clearly ‘no’.

I’d imagine they start with an idea, use their experience of such things to work out what is actually feasible, examine any options, think carefully about any issues, do some sketches, maybe even some 3-D computer stuff. Have a think about how the end user will experience the product. Possibly do some ‘market research’. Then approach a suitable manufacturer/s and discuss how to realise their designs. And I’d imagine they would probably need to produce some prototypes in order to gain real-world knowledge of something (at this point I admit I am different, as there will only be one ‘prototype’). They may then go away and refine the design.

They might even use a discussion forum online, to talk to others about stuff.

Am I that far off the mark?

Sorry that was rhetorical, the answer is clearly ‘no’.

So how are you so different? Please explain.

Many skilled and great names in the bike industry getting shot down by some keyboard warrior with no experience

Please point out where this has actually happened?

I’m merely of a different opinion to others, about the potential construction of a bicycle frame for myself. Ultimately, only my opinion matters. I am happy for others to challenge me on this, and to offer their own input, and I might even take some of it on board. But I’m confident of being able to achieve what I want, so i’m happy to continue as I am. I’m not forcing others to offer any input, merely inviting them to do so. If this results in a debate, so be it. I don’t have an issue with that, and neither does Brant, by the looks of things.

As for ‘experience’; you have no idea what experience I have. So how can you possibly comment on this? :?

You’re really not.

No, I really am. In a similar way that Brant is. I will be specifying particular unique aspects of the bike’s design.That makes me it’s ‘designer’.

If I had chosen another route, sutch as an off the peg frame, or a Pact/travers bike, then you’d be right.

so a bicycle frame cannot be designed and built by a collaborative team who have different skills, experience and roles?

Of course. And in this case, I’m the ‘designer’. Hence why I don’t need a ‘middle man’.

I’m unclear as to why you’re posting on a forum for recreational mountainbikers then, and not professional framebuilders?

Fair point, although this does appear to be one of the most popular cycling forums. So I expected a greater response.

The thing is, if I was to say that I don’t care what you think as you have never made a or designed a frame, so your comments on whether he needs credit or not, to me, are irrelevant, you’d think I was mean.

Not really. You’re just some random bod on the internet as far as I’m concerned. No offence. You’ve offered a great deal more insight than some others though, I will say that.

Of course, the thing that aggrieved me a tiny bit (which is kind of overstating things anyway) about the Titchmarsh winning the Bespoked award was that it was largely a collection of Paragon Machine Works parts welded together nicely with some tubing in the middle. The front brake hose routing is neat though. And that blue is lovely.

It’s not Dan’s fault it won though. And it’s a lovely looking bike. But when there are people out there who make their own frame parts, and they get beaten by someone who didn’t, it makes me question the voting process and stuff. But then you can say that for all awards of course.

Dan’s bike was commissioned by a customer who specified certain parts. Dan can make custom dropouts and all sorts, if required.

Dan also won an award for this:

I think he deserves some credit.

Very good Scotroutes; your trolling skills are improving! :D

Difference is, that the architect is part of an overall team who have different roles involved in the construction of a building. So it’s a collaborative effort (although the architect tends to take the credit).

But in the context of this thread, when someone is offering ‘advice’ on building a frame, I expect them to have at least some actual experience in doing so.

Nearly ALL the cyclist/traffic incident videos that get posted up in here are a combination of a common driving error compounded by a cyclist forgetting the road is full of common driving idiots. There’s really no point being “right” whilst holed up in traction. I despair of cyclists I see around me in London not riding with their heads, but with their egos. In 20yrs of London cycling I’ve not once had an off or a near miss, but I have often had vehicles pull across me without indicating, pull out without seeing, change lanes without mirrors. And each time I’m ready for it and stay safe.

This is absolutely spot on. You’ve got to be 100% focussed on what’s going on around you. Looks like the cyclist was probably in a hurry, and didn’t concentrate enough. The taxi driver should have indicated much earlier, so has a very weak argument, but the bottom line is that the taxi is a lot bigger than the bike, and simple common sense dictates that size matters. Might not seem fair, but that’s life.

I always work on the assumption that every single driver out there is a homicidal maniac, and an idiot who shouldn’t be let near a pair of scissors, let alone a motor vehicle, so will probably kill me if given half the chance. It serves me well.

I want one of those really big ones with a proper DSLR attached; the sort they use to shoot nature documentaries and stuff.

Stangely, Santa doesn’t seem to have received my email…

Not when those ‘designers’ don’t actually know how to build frames themselves, no.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I’m sure you’ll agree that I’m perfectly entitled to that opinion.

bartyp has a nerve

It’s my thread about my future bike! :D

I had a call this afternoon from someone assuming bartyp was me. Which made me chuckle.

Really? How funny! :lol:

Whether it now feels like a bit of a set up marketing thread as an aside….

I’m beginning to admire Pact’s use of stealth marketing… :wink:

Is Ti harder to work with (shape tubes, weld etc) to a high level than steel? I’m sure I read somewhere a while back of the likes of Engin ensuring a super clean environment so the welds aren’t contaminated. Or is that just a myth in my noggin.

Titanium fabricators I’ve spoken to have mentioned the need to a clean environment, so I’d say it’s not a myth. I find it encouraging when a frame builder talks to me about stuff of which I have no knowledge, because it shows that they are dedicated professionals and serious about doing a proper job.

Meanwhile, less talking and a bit more action results in this..

A far-eastern made frame. Looks nice, I wish you health to enjoy it.

BartyP you really need to go and learn some basic economic theory. You wouldn’t entertain a discussion with people about your bonkers custom bike frame unless they had experience of making bicycles to your liking from Ti tubing themselves. So I’m not sure why you’re expecting others to indulge you in macro economics when quite clearly you don’t get it. At all.

:lol:

I find your interpretation of things fascinating. You’re wrong of course, but carry on thinking lie that if it suits you.

.. and that was wrong because you continue to look at share of the economy, not the gdp attributable to maufacturinh.

Ok then, let’s indulge you:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11957012/UK-growth-suffers-sharper-slowdown-in-third-quarter-as-construction-sector-shrinks.html

http://www.cityam.com/227412/uk-gdp-weapons-manufacturing-ship-repair-and-steel-manufacturing-are-among-the-uks-fastest-shrinking-industries

So now we’ve got that out of the way, let’s look at what this discussion is actually about, rather than what some of you think it’s about. The fact is, that we are losing real skills within our workforce. Much of this is due to automation and improvements in production technology, and much of it is due to industries moving to cheaper labour markets. I’m not disputing this. But part of it is our inability/unwillingness to continue to invest in maintaining skill levels, in the way other nations have. There’s no problem in training people to do other things, but why can’t we also train them in more traditional skills as well?

I think poor barty p is still shill bidding for his bike building friends with this post.

However many have realised there are factories overseas which produce product cheaper and technically far superior to much of the stuff MADE here, even UK bike designers realise Taiwanese factories can and do produce a simply superb products that no one in the UK can match for the price.

The world has moved on.

It’s this kind of attitude that I find depressing. Phillxx75 suggested I get a US or Russian made frame, as it would be ‘better’, in his opinion. An opinion we learned that is not actually based in real knowledge. Putting aside Russia for the moment; the US has several companies that produce high-end Titanium frames. The UK has just a tiny number of people skilled in this field. Surely it’s better to encourage growth here, by employing a UK company, than simply purchasing something from abroad? I’d even possibly be paying more for the same thing from the US, not to mention the unnecessary carbon footprint associated with it’s import.

The world has moved on. And it’s left us behind.

As for ignoring training in basic skills:

Imagine if you want to be able to make a piece of furniture, maybe a workbench. How are you going to set about learning to do so? Will you instantly be skilled in using all the tools you’ll need? No. first, you’ll need to learn how to hold a saw the right way, things like that. Thing is, as others have mentioned, were not doing this. We’re not training people in the basic skills, so that they can go on and develop those skills into more specialist ones. And for those talking about specialist industries; how many of you are actually physically involved in making stuff? And as for ‘designers’ sitting at a desk ‘designing’ something made in the far east; how will you learn to actually use the metal the frames are made from, if you’ve never held a welding torch yourself? That’s not designing a bicycle frame; that’s just ordering from a catalogue of parts, and having people with more skill and knowledge than you, to actually make it.

And any idiot can do that. :wink:

Who cares if we’re less skilled at making stuff? It’s not the only way to run an economy…

And this sums up why so many of you absolutely fail to see the cost of everything, and the value of nothing.

Who cares? Future generations will, when all they are capable of is taking stuff off an assembly line, and putting them in boxes. When they have to pay a fortune for anything decent, and have to put up with cheap shit from abroad, because that’s all they can afford. When the only bikes they can afford will be nasty cheap crap from Halfords (all the small independent bike shops will have closed down by this time). And all those jobs their ancestors did, that earned them so much money, are now being done by people in foreign lands, whose governments saw the value in investing in industry.

As for ‘economics’; you can blether on about how we do this that and the other so well, but the reality is that there are less and less jobs which require such genuine skills in this country. You can’t just come up with exceptions and hope they prove the rule. We are entering a future where our kids will not be able to get an education, because they can’t afford the debt. When they can’t afford to buy a house, because it’s all been bought by affluent foreigners (who’ve made their money in manufacturing stuff they sell to us). And they’ll have no skills because we’ve been too lazy to teach them, content instead to just buy stuff from abroad, because it’s cheaper.

He was wrong anyway, he misinterpreted the statistics.

I didn’t; it’s a fact that our economy is shrinking in global terms, and we are being overtaken by other nations. Who are making stuff. The kind of stuff that we used to make. Really well. Do you genuinely believe that those nations making the basic stuff won’t eventually catch up? Are you that blinkered and naive?

Germany has progressed as an economic power. They are still making stuff, at all levels. They have retained their skills base. We’re in danger of losing ours all together.

Ahem: OP you said earlier you were more interested in ‘reality’ than statistics and then posted up two sets of data published by the UK Office for National Statistics!

To satisfy those who can’t seem to see beyond mere numbers. And also as a reinforcement to the fact that less stuff is being made here. I thought that if I gave them some actual figures, they’d soon have to rethink things. :lol:

But if you can’t see the reality that we’re becoming less and less skilled in making stuff, then man, you really are blinkered.

Too late.

Good point. I’m off to make some stuff. :wink:

On the basis that you have not been to visit every UK manufacturer, you have absolutely no concept of reality, you are basing your views on a romanticised nirvana in the past that never existed.

The ‘reality’ is, that when I was a kid, far more things that we all used were made here. From the cheapest to the very expensive. Clothes, furniture, tools, and bicycles.

Those statistics above prove our manufacturing industry is shrinking. Unbelievable that so many on here are in obvious denial of the facts. Our skills base is evaporating. People are less and less able to make and fix stuff. Less decent stuff is made here. You simply can’t argue with that. Saying ‘oh but we’re really good at F1 or this or that’ is just burying your head in the sand.

The export of UK skills is a massive industry in itself.

So, skilled people are going abroad to find work, because there’s less opportunities here. Great.

You can’t.

I’m sitting at a desk I made myself. On a chair I made myself. Made using skills I’ve largely taught myself, because I think it’s crap that nobody knows how to do stuff any more. And I don’t want to be someone who can’t do anything but push keys on a keyboard, moaning about how crap everything is because it’s not made very well.

That’s exactly what we have left.

We have relatively very little of it left. Wake up and smell the coffee. Just because you and a relative handful of others do particular things in a relatively very smal manufacturing industry, does not mean we are a nation of manufacturers.

Anyone want some statistics?

Brompton is an anomaly; a UK bike manufacturer which is actually growing rapidly. Great design, and very successful marketing. However; most of the bits are actually made abroad. Including the Sturmey Archer hubs. Sturmey Archer, I wonder what happened to them…

What happens when Brompton decide to move production to somewhere with cheaper labour costs?

There is now a huge global middle class which didn’t exist 30 years ago, and they want premium, Made-in-Britain products.

I thik this is quite mythical; ‘Made in Britain’ doesn’t have the same kudos it once did. Chiefly because we don’t make as much stuff, and our skills base is disappearing, along with our reputation. :(

We could make bike components exclusively here but they’d cost a load more and make a standard bike a load more expensive. Other than an (arguably) misplaced sense of patriotism, why would you do that?

Well, because it would be helping invest in the development of British industry. And if others saw that one company was doing well, maybe they’d set up in competition, helping drive that industry forwards. Which could then employ and train more people. Who would then become skilled themselves, and maybe go on to do their own things. And hopefully become successful. And employ and train other people etc etc etc.

For 20 years we have as a country fetishised business and financial services above ‘the real economy’ when its arguable if it is socially useful

manufacturing keeps getting more and more productive so it employs less and less people for the same output which means that manufacturing is a far less prominent in many peoples lives than it used to be. You are less likely to be in manufacturing or have a mate or their dad in manufacturing than you used to.

If you take the long view china are trying to shift to consumer economy and be less export led, India will follow etc. and they will be less able to compete with us on cost meaning that manufacturing could reshore back to western countries and of those western countries how well placed does the uk want to make itself compared to germany or USA etc.

Well said. Interesting how Germany is still a manufacturer of high-quality tools, when our toolmaking industry has all but disappeared.

AC (1908–present)
Arash (2006–present) [1]
Ariel (1999–present)
Ascari (1995–present)
Aston Martin (1921–present)
B….

So where are all the others? The hundreds of others? And all the thousands of industries associated with those hundreds of manufacturers? And of those, ones like Jaguar, Land Rover, Bentley, Rolls Royce, Aston etc would have probably gone under if it wasn’t for foreign investment. How long before those parent companies decide UK labour is to expensive, and move operations elsewhere?

erm, maths is a strong foundation for a manufacturing economy, that could be your answer just there.

Erm, manufacturing is a strong foundation for a manufacturing industry. And sales figures are not a good means of assessing manufacturing, due to something called inflation. :wink:

Are we? Or is that just some made up crap.

So, let’s see the last piece of furniture/item of clothing you made. Or indeed, the last piece of anything you made yourself.

I think many of you are spectacularly missing the point here. Which is that we have gone from being a nation of producers, to a nation of consumers. I’m not saying that we shouldn’t do other things as well, just that we should perhaps re-engage with the things we, as a nation, used to be really good at. Using some relatively very small industries as examples of why things are wonderful is disingenuous. Using Aston Martin as an example ignores the hundreds of vehicle manufacturers this country used to have. Where have they all gone?

This isn’t a discussion about the economy, it’s about disappearing skills. UK is the 8th largest manufacturer globally? It was once the biggest. And it was 6th just 20 years ago. And it’s likely to slip out of the top 10 in the next 15 or so.

Loads, just look at the official statistics

I’m looking at the reality, not ‘statistics’. Again, how much stuff that you currently have around you, is made here? The desk you’re sitting at, the chair you’re sitting on. The reality is, that less and less of the stuff we actually use in our lives, is made here in the UK. That’s a fact.

What we still do here is the complex stuff that also needs a lot of engineering in the first place and expertise to manufacture or at least assemble. And then to maintain if we’re going to talk about higher tech stuff.

Other nations are catching up and overtaking us. We won’t be doing this for much longer, without a serious re-think about how we actually develop those skills necessarily. It’s all well and good saying ‘oh but we’re really really good at making very low-volume specialist stuff’, but if we lose the skills to make the simple things, then we won’t have a foundation from which to learn the more complex stuff.

We used to make bicycles. Lots and lots of bicycles. We don’t any more. Now, China makes lots and lots of bicycles. And we buy those bicycles from them. And that money helps them to invest in making better and better bicycles.

Getting it yet?

That’s the beauty of it. Massively high margins, i.e. very productive and a big export market.

And as soon as companies work out that it’s cheaper to train and employ staff in a country with much lower labour costs, (and invariably poor human rights records), they can simply move virtually overnight. It took many decades for our manufacturing industries to run down to the level they are at now. You can’t just buy an industry like that, and set it up overnight.

We are the 8th biggest manufacturer in the world – the general tread of manufacturing output is that of consistent growth.

Surely this is a line that belongs in the ‘bullshit’ thread? Manufacturers of what, exactly? Have a look around you; how much stuff is actually made here?

Take an example. Is its better that the UK is one of the top manufacturers of wood whittling tools or one of the top manufacturers of specialist high integrity instrumentation systems?

Are you trying to prove that one or two exceptions prove the rule? How many people actually use ‘specialist high integrity instrumentation systems’? How many people ride bicycles? Where are those bicycles being manufactured?

Yep, it’s complete BS that we don’t do manufacturing here and that it’s dying.

Skills are disappearing. How many people in this country can actually make something? Or even fix anything? We’re generally pretty useless at most things.

Whilst I support your sentiment, why shouldn’t we progress over time away from something we used to be good at into new things e.g. services, computing, software etc etc? Competitive advantage changes over time and to remain wealthy we have to adapt and stay nimble.

But I’m taking specifically about things we used to do extremely well, but are now done much better by other countries. Who are well able to make them profitably. Why aren’t we still able to do the same?

Don’t forget that when you buy from a foreign manufacturer you’re often providing someone with a job who was previously in poverty/subsistence living. It’s a pretty good way of helping to equalise global wealth, rather than keeping it all for ourselves.

But we’re abandoning stuff we were really good at, and losing skills. And becoming a nation of consumers, rather than producers. Eventually, this will lead to a situation where we can only afford cheap crap from abroad, and not enjoy anything decen, unless we learn how to make it ourselves again.

When was the last time you bought a decent bit of furniture? And where was it made?

Watchmaking,
The swiss do it better
automotive engineering,
The germans do it better
graphic design,
Erm.
and bicycle frame manufacture.

They were all used as examples of things we appreciate, when they are done to a very high standard.

I do a bit of woodwork. The UK used to produce some of the finest tools in the world. Now, several other countries (including China) make tools to the same or very similar design, but we don’t. The US, Japan, Sweden and Germany in particular, make superb tools of all types.

I am actually struggling to come up with any examples of anything I own which is uniquely UK designed and made. Some B+W speakers maybe, but even my amplifier is Danish. And our 2 Dysons were made in the far East, I think.

Why don’t we have a thread celebrating things which the UK actually does really well

That’s precisely what this thread is about though. That ‘golden age’ wasn’t imaginary, either. There is very little high quality engineering and manufacturing left in this country. Consultancy services and finance aren’t creating anything physical. Music is of debatable ‘quality’ :-)

Aren’t CK headsets made in the US?

What I don’t understand, is why anyone has a bike frame resprayed, then pays money to get decals/stickers made up like the original manufacturer’s ones. I can understand it more if it’s an exotic vintage machine perhaps, but not if it’s a mass-produced bike. Why would you pay money to advertise their product? :? To me, it’s a bit like customised car number plates like ‘BMW Z1’ or ‘AUD1’ or other such stupidity. What an utter waste of money! A bike looks far more personal if it’s got no stickers or your own design.

Where is that pub? It looks very good; they offer great ales and spirits.

Oh, and Philxx; I really think you owe Titchmarsh an apology. I think you were very rude towards him imo, and ignorant of his actual credentials. Maybe you’d like to take a few minutes to find out what those are.

He’s mentioned in this Guardian article:

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/gallery/2014/jun/20/custom-bicycles-gallery

And this is an award winning bike:

I have now had a great conversation with Titchmarsh, which has really helped crystallise things for me.

Basically, I don’t need a new bike. I want one. I don’t need it to be able to be amazing in terms of performance, I just want it to be capable and comfortable. In short, just I want something nice. I’m not particularly acquisitive; I’m the sort of person who wouldn’t buy a Rolex if a Timex does the same job. But I can appreciate why people want nice things. I can also appreciate that for many, a lot of nice things are a bit out of reach. I’ve certainly not always been in the position to be able to afford stuff. So, all this considered, I do have a pretty good idea of what I want, just not the skills and means to be able to achieve it. Which is where somebody else comes in.

I decided fairly early on that in order to get what I really wanted, not just in terms of the actual product, but also of the whole experience, I will need to get somebody in the UK to make me a frame. As I’ve discovered, there aren’t very many people who can actually do this. What has become important to me, is to be able to help support craftspeople here, and to have a tiny part in supporting the kind of industries this country used to excell at. This is no longer simply about a bike frame; it’s become a personal quest to get a piece of art made.

I don’t actually care if the finished product will be the best bike in the world, or even if other people like it.

The conversation I had yesterday (and other previous conversations with different people), have made it clear that embarking on such a project in this manner, is exciting and full of potential discovery. The finished product will have much more of ‘me’ in it, than some mass-produced frame built in a massive factory thousands of miles away; it will be far more personal.

It seems there really are people out there who understand this. I do hope that some people on here will, in time, come to understand this too.

Why can’t you just be content with waiting until it actually comes out, then finding out what happens? I can get hold of a screener DVD well before it’s on general release, but I’d much rather enjoy the whole cinema experience.

All I really care about is that Jar Jar **** Binks isn’t in it.

If you musthave a turkey for Thanksgiving, and your oven’s broke, then fear not, for there is a solution.

Deep fry the bastard!

Careful though it could go wrong:

So, listen to Bill.

yet at every turn have dismissed great advice from the entire community.

You’re absolutely wrong on this. But then you’re completely unaware of the conversations I’ve had with actual frame builders, others who have Titanium bikes, and people who’ve had frames made, away from this forum. This forum is not ‘the entire community’.

And you’ve been negatively judgmental (not to mention quite rude) about Titchmarsh without appearing to have much if any knowledge about who they are, and what they do.

As for ‘advice’; some of it is little more than the egos of some who seem to think they know better than me, about what I want and need. ‘This is what I did and you should do the same because I did and I know better than you’. Great. Thanks.

Sorry I misunderstood

Yeah, I think you did.

Some interesting (and surprising) opinions. GaryM; you seem really quite opposed to the idea, yet so far I’ve not seen a conclusive argument against it, from you. The police regularly do other kinds of PR type exercises, and the tax/insurance/DSS roadblocks etc. And I’m sure that a box of lights would fit fine in an average panda car. And personally, I think cycling safety awareness campaigns are a bloody good use of police resources. Better than hanging around outside Downing street, for sure! :D

Now, punishing crime is known to deter criminal behaviour in many cases, so not doing so will likely have a negative effect.

Riding a bike without lights at night is hardly a ‘criminal’ matter,it’s just bloody stupid. And as for fines; I’d be interested to see just how effective issuing fines for this particular offence actually is. I’ve never known anyone who has been fined for this, does anyone else? Do the police even bother with fines? Aren’t such low-level fines more costly overall to actually implement and chase up?

I’m more interested in the safety aspect; the increasing numbers of cyclist mean there are more and more inexperienced/ignorant cyclists out there, posing an increasing risk to their own safety, and that of others. So, we need to be focussing on stuff which can raise awareness and potentially save lives. I’m all for a bit of ‘Darwinism’, but I wouldn’t want any driver to have to go through the trauma of having seriously injured/killed someone, simply because the idiot didn’t have lights on their bike.

I personally have made 0

Ok.

I can honestly say based on actually having dealt with a framebuilder or two that ,a lot will do well to avoid your custom.

:lol:

Funny how frame builders are actually emailing me with information, then. Or spending 20 mins or more on the ‘phone, happy to discuss things. Fortunately, it seems frame builders themselves are people who are passionate about taking on fresh challenges and exciting projects. You see, I have a pretty good idea of what I want, but not the skills needed to turn those ideas into reality. Hence why I need to employ somebody else to assist me in that. Hence why this thread is very useful to me. And whatever you may think about my ‘attitude’ or whatever, I am concerned only with having a bike made for me, not for anybody else. That’s why it’s important for me, to find somebody who is willing to listen to what I want. Of the people I’ve spoken to so far, most are just that. People capable of listening to a customer’s needs. That is the kind of frame builder I want.

I’m curious why some people seem to have an issue with that.

Ah, I’ve been wondering about these, as there seems to be a fad for them at the moment. Had no idea they were so expensive. I’m sure many people are wearing them as fashion accessories, in the same way they drive Range Rovers etc. I doubt many see anything below actual freezing.

I need to replace a very tired old Rab down jacket. It’s almost 20 years old! What should I be looking at? No problem about spending a bit; if it’ll last me half that I’ll be more than happy! I’m quite soft, like Loddrik, when it comes to cold, so I need something proper warm. And it’ll be worn around town (I’m not a Coyote trapper), so I don’t want it looking too outdoorsy. What’s out there?

Indeed. I’ve just read an email from Dan, and it is pretty clear he knows his stuff. I asked for people with experience of Titanium frame building to comment on here, and so far, I think he’s the only one who does actually do this. So it’s fantastic to have such knowledgable input.

Philxx; what experience of Titanium frame building do you have?

Why not consult with one of the American Ti builders, or even the Russian company (their name has slipped my mind) they will have built hundreds of frames rather than in the UK where you will be paying someone who has built one or two frames out of Ti and therefore your project will be as much of an experiment for them as it is you.

If you’d read the thread properly, you’d have seen that I’ve decided to have a frame made here in the UK, for a number of reasons. As for an ‘experiment’; have you bothered to research Titchmarsh’s work at all? If you had, you’d have seen that Dan has actually won awards for his stuff! And has clearly got some experience at bicycle frame building, in steel as well as Titanium. Which is why we’ll be having a conversation. I’m really not sure why you’ve chosen to challenge him in such a manner. :?

A bunch of us know what we’re doing – the question is, after 7 pages, do you know what you want?

I had a pretty good idea at the beginning, yes, and despite the best efforts of some individuals, who seem to think they know more than me about what I want and need (and getting a bit arsey because I dared disagree with them), I’m closer to knowing exactly what I want.