Edit:Wrong thread

I’m not misunderstanding it, nor is anyone, it means less money for cops and more for social programs, in the hopes it will eventually reduce crime. Uk police is already stretched to thin. The movement to defund UK police is nonsensical.

Cops per 100k in Netherlands: 295, UK: 211.(wikipedia). It seems that both the police force AND social programs need expanding.

More funding obviously.
Edit: uk police are already very good at avoiding deadly force.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna737551

This is what keir said:
“ There’s a broader issue here, the Black Lives Matter movement, or moment if you like, internationally is about reflecting on what happened dreadfully in America just a few weeks ago and acknowledging that as a moment across the world.

It’s a shame it’s getting tangled up with these organisational issues. I wouldn’t have any truck with what the organisation is saying about defunding the police or anything else, that’s just nonsense. “

In response to the defund the police requests from BLM UK.

Don’t entertain baboon

Did I dare to disagree or ask for sources? By entering that google search I should see plentiful of nazi salutes I would have thought. What I have seen in videos and images, are people raising both hands up, the same way football fans do. Nobody is denying the may be far right…

Far right thugs giving Nazi salutes now whilst ‘protecting‘ the Churchill statue. Beyond irony.

Any evidence of this? I searched in google images “ nazi salute london protest london 2020” and found nothing on the first page. The protestor seem to have both hands extending upwards, is this the new nazi salute?

@nickc

Thanks for putting things in context. I also understand better why it was done, but at this point its really what degree of civil unrest are you comfortable with, in this we will probably disagree. In my opinion it also belittles the 40 years of effort of trying to taking it down the right way.

On the other hand, there is the danger of this event being taken out of context the other way, as in a free for all of taking down monuments/statues.

It sure is. Did you ponder why that might be true, and whether that might be another symptom of the underlying problem?

I’m not denying what you are trying to imply. Neither does what I posted.

If you are 10 times more likely to be arrested and fined under lockdown if you’re black, how are we all equal under the law?

Is it plausible that black people mainly live in cities, and in disadvantaged areas that have a higher police presence? I’m sure there is a racist/prejudice element in it, but I want to believe its smaller contributor than what the statistic suggests.

I’ll be more specific, point me to a law that actively discriminates.

surely that is always the case

Doesn’t seem the case in this forum a lot of the times. The point I’ve failed to make, is that just because someone does something with good intentions, it doesn’t mean its right or will lead to a positive outcome.

be honest now, the Colston statue furore has done more to educate many people about slavery than any number of government initiatives

the fact that it will be moved to a museum & placed in display with placards from the BLM march, is a great victory for this ‘polarising self-righteous pseudo intelectual attitude’

I’ve personally learned more about the history of Bristol than anything-can’t speak for others, I’m an antisocial labrat. Like I said earlier, I am 50/50 regarding the statue. It is the way that it was done that I am very much against.

If you allow me to be cynical, it is my thought that the timing of this protests will backfire. Trump will get re-elected and people in the UK are too absorbed by Covid to actually truly care, or maybe I am wrong and this is the right timing, since councils can maybe now take unilateral decisions and flying under the radar.

My comment was for the attitude of the poster(not for you @inkster you’re sticking to your guns, and I like it, although I wish you used the racist label less), where he was trying to dissuade a debate, because “they are not going to change their mind”, after what was a fruitful discussion. We even heard from someone who his great uncle was part of the chinese revolution(hope he is not trolling), I myself am a Spanish immigrant, is this not the kind of diverse background/opinions liberals are all about? But no, the debate had to be belittled because it doesn’t conform with his views.

To imagine what things might look like in 50 or 100 years time you only have to look back in time using the same proportion.

Thanks for addressing the actual point I was trying to make. I would argue that the system at the moment is not “directly” racist, AKA we are all equal under the law, this is different to institutional racism. Therefore it is time to make these changes in a lawful manner.

Well cause… slavery. It’s the proverbial no brainer.

Being for or against taking down a statue, has nothing to do with being pro or for slavery. Are you being silly on purpose?

There are valid points for taking a statue down, and valid for leaving it there. There have also been valid points to why a mob/protesters taking down a statue may be a bad idea or not.

Is it really that hard to understand? Do you ever question your own beliefs?

arguing with individuals that are against it and won’t ever change their mind

What makes you think you are right? You have no clue if this action will matter 50 or 100 years from now, or if the impact was good or bad. We can only speculate.

This just reads like it’s you who will never change his mind.

This polarising self-righteous pseudo intelectual attitude is cancer to our modern society.

no offence, but what the f are you gibbering about? 😆

He is equating taking down the statues with an ideological victory.

In his mind, and many that think like him, take down a controversial/offensive statue = advancing social justice.

That’s what I interpreted from it.

Id go with another deathadder. If you are running out of buttons you can always shift wasd one but key to the right. So instead of wasd you have esdf.

The Logitech wireless expensive one is used in esports, so I wouldn’t think there is much lag anymore.

@outofbreath

In many states in the US, they can charge for different murder degrees at the same time. So he was charged for second, but convicted for third. From my quick read it seems, that he discharged his firearm, without getting a clear view of what was happening. Much life the cop that killed Floyd has been charged with second, but probably will be convicted of third.

His refusal to cooperate with the investigation and not wearing any body cam did not help with his situation.

His partner tried to use the “feared for his life” defense. This is basically trying to invoke the get out of jail card that cops get if they can prove at any moment that they feared for his life. Even if they got themselves in a bad situation out of their own negligence. Unfortunately I can’t find at the moment any balanced/non-click bait article that explains it.

Its a really shitty situation. He got jumpy and shot his gun. However, from the little evidence there was, it seems there was absolutely no reason to get spooked. Hence the “disregard for human life”.

@dazh

I provided an article from a liberal magazine to illustrate my point. You provide a gotcha Twitter. What’s next an episode of Trevor Noah?

Aye we should never learn from history. 😆

If we have moved on from them and as a society admitted they are wrong, it does seem like a fruitless exercise.

I would argue that if a person was truly evil for their time, they would not have had statues. However I am probably wrong.

Someone pointed out as to why not have Hitler statues, well his actions were recognised as evil at the time, and rightly so.

I am very much 50:50 about this statues issue, however I cannot agree with a mob bringing it down.

@faerie

Interesting point you make, maybe the behaviour of antifa per country is a reflection of the different far-left wing groups it represents?

I guess at this point it really is, what degree of civil unrest do you agree with.

This incident:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/antifa-on-trial-how-a-college-professor-joined-the-lefts-radical-ranks-630213/amp/

Says something else about violence and antifa. Whilst the victim was no saint either, the perpetrator could have killed him, yet no one in the mob tried to stop him or apprehend him.

I talked about discord channels, because it’s an easy way to communicate and organise without being visible. They are widely used in gaming, because they are extremely effective at organising and communicating, and it’s free. It negates the need of physically congregating at a given place to discuss ideas.

They are no where near as organised as a terrorist cell, but I don’t think I have implied that? As I said before, the numbers they get implies some form of organisation, this doesn’t necessarily mean top-down military style way of coordination.

@ChrisL

Organised as a local level is still organised. How hard would it be for those local level groups to talk to each other and coordinate? In this day an age, it’s almost stupidly easy.

This however does not mean that Trump overreaction was warranted.

Social media is a dump, has been for a while, I would even question how good it is for anyone’s mental health. The only usefulness I see are the groups and messenger service.

@farie

I think you have illustrated my point, actions are different depending on the country.

For example, in Spain my parents didn’t even know about them specifically, since they operate similarly to every other far left mob.

The socialist campaigners were asked to leave the BLM protests for hijacking the issues. POC means People of Colour, not communism.

That’s great news, and somewhat supports this report from a police chief in St. Louis:

That and watching the trailer on Cabrini-green makes for a truly depressive morning.

Is Antifa some sort of code word for tin foil hat?

No just an imbecil middle class inbred child between a SHARP and an anarchist.

@frankconway

Terminology or English? I apologise if the posts were a bit broken.

So are you not concerned that you’re rubbing shoulders with all these neonazis?

Honestly I can’t tell if your posts are a joke

is that what you take from the post? My point was that discord channels whilst being for gaming, can also be used for very nefarious reasons. Weather you like it or not.

Also on the topic as your average gamers, well gamers are people, the columbine shooters where people, who also happened to be gamers. I don’t understand what gamers haas to do with anything but you brought it up.

I despise noeonazism and communism equally. Two ideologies that ruined the west and killed millions. However, being active in the internet means that you get exposed to both all the time.

Goodness, I wasn’t expecting to be subject to such a torrent of science

I thought anecdotical evidence was the STW way. If it bothers you that much ignore it. I was merely pointing out, that the actions and organisation of antifa vary from country to country.

So, as organised as your average online gamers then? Scary stuff!

This just shows your age and ignorance.

It’s also were young neonazis/racists like to chill, guess that’s not concerning either? In the last couple of years the use of discord has exploded. I myself am part of 7 different discord servers all for one game.

It also shows your the generalised hypocrisy since I’ve seen in this forum more than once people getting bent up about 4chan, and more specifically /pol/, an outdated more than decade old image board.

Blum funding: https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/16/black-lives-matter-cashes-100-million-liberal-foun/

That’s a cushy fund, weather you like it or not.

On the topic of antifa, they may seem disorganised, but they are not, the use invitation only Discord servers for communication. For anyone that doesn’t know discord, it’s like a WhatsApp group on steroid and voice channels.

In addition it seems their actions vary from country to country. In Stockholm they mainly come out to protest/beat-up against nazis (according to a Swedish friend). In the US its not that simple and I wouldn’t be surprised if they had caused the escalation of the protests. Calling themselves anti fascists it’s a smart of way of indirectly smearing anyone that they oppose, since they are anti-fascists.

It pretty much sums up the guardian.

Why the delay? If new cases are higher now than they will be in 2 weeks, wouldn’t you want people using PT to be covering faces from now? Can anyone explain the logic here?

Seems slightly silly, maybe they are planning on ramping up service in 2 weeks? They’re half admitting that everyone should be wearing masks already in such circumstances. Maybe supplies chain are not ready?

Oh gosh just seen the usual pro-Tory commentators jumping up & down about Spain ‘cheating’ their death records

all missing that it still doesnt explain why the UK has been so consistently woeful

These statements are not mutually exclusive.
The Spanish courts have already opened up an investigation on the possible cock-up at the start of the crisis.

@kryton57

Spain’s cock ups and mismanagement on this crisis are something else and would warrant a whole new thread. Whilst the country is crumbling economically the politicians are having pointless esoteric conversations.

@DezB

There is superficial statistical assessment out on BAME deaths in the nhs, in this case they seem disproportionately affected also, even though infection seems to be happening at the hospital.
If we know one thing is that nhs is very good at treating all of its staff like shit.

@Nick

“Excuse me old chap could you postpone or ensure strict social distancing when their is a global pandemic that has claimed excess 40,000 lives in the uk in the past 3 months”
If this triggers another wave in which Bame will be disproportionally affected will we see a protest because of the protest?

Do you think this protest will affect the public opinion or policy in the uk? If anything it reinforces the idea of lawlessness in large urban areas.

@DezB

There is a somewhat controversial one coming out very soon. Something coming out this soon means they probably rushed it, meaning it will become a political document rather than a fact finding one. I could be wrong though.

Looking at a lot of the responses on here it seems the STW consensus is that if we intend to protest about racial injustice we should form an orderly queue in the time honoured British fashion.

Moreover, we should do it at the right (allocated) time, maybe postpone it for a couple of months. Maybe we could ask Derek Chauvin to be more considerate and save his performance for the cameras for a time when protests can be organised more safely.

This is lunacy.

The overwhelming response in my opinion is protests are justified. US police needs reform in the way it polices poor areas and how it deals internally with police officers that are not up to standard. What is not justified is rioting, looting and sacking.

Isn’t it way too early to make conclusions as to why BAME may have been more affected by Covid? It seems a far too complex issue for data that is barely a month old.

I would contest that it has been buried, the Wikipedia entry shows that, a bipartisan factfinding committee was formed in the late 60s. I don’t think anyone would contest that America has an extremely racist past.

When I first went to see Carl Cox, the preceding event delayed the schedule by 15min or so, when he came on the absolute legend extended the set another 30min.

I fail to see how this isn’t just going to end up in many more unneceary deaths, unless we are truly done with covid and this government is lowballing how “effective” their admin has been of this crisis.

Rioters have managed to piss off Chicago Latin kings(cartel backed btw).

If this continues this is not going to end well:

https://chicago.suntimes.com/2020/6/2/21278303/cicero-looting-gangs-racism-police-george-floyd-protests

The rioting and looting in liberal/democrat run cities destroying business in many cases owned and run by minorities seems like a counterproductive effort.

Evidence shows that when it comes to lethal force all races get it equally, or at least there is no conclusive evidence of bias. When it comes to non-lethal does there seems to be a bias towards minorities.

It’s a ny times article based on actual research:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/upshot/surprising-new-evidence-shows-bias-in-police-use-of-force-but-not-in-shootings.amp.html